Legislature(2021 - 2022)BUTROVICH 205
05/02/2022 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB84 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 84 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 84-LAND VOUCHERS; PFDS
3:38:00 PM
CHAIR REVAK announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 84
"An Act relating to the veterans' land purchase discount;
establishing state land vouchers; relating to the permanent fund
dividend; relating to the duties of the Department of Revenue;
authorizing the Department of Natural Resources to accept state
land vouchers; relating to eligibility for public assistance;
and providing for an effective date."
[SB 84 was previously heard on 5/10/2021 and 1/31/2022.]
3:39:16 PM
BRIAN FECHTER, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Revenue,
Anchorage, Alaska, summarized that this bill would allow
permanent fund dividend (PFD) applicants to use a land voucher,
which would be twice the statutory amount of the PFD. This
voucher could be credited towards a future land purchase.
3:39:53 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE said he liked the bill. He wondered what would
happen if the statute changed and AS 43.23.025 no longer
existed. He asked how that would affect this bill in the long
term.
MR. FECHTER answered that SB 84 would adopt the statutory
formula in law by reference. Thus, if the legislature made a
statutory change next year, it would be a legislative policy
consideration whether to continue to fund the land voucher at
twice the amount of the PFD or to adopt a new formula.
3:41:06 PM
SENATOR KIEHL recalled that the committee had extensive
conversations about the face value of the voucher and the impact
on residents receiving public assistance. He further recalled
that the committee had asked for a general sense of parcel
values for state land sales to the general public, such as the
average or the median amount. He wondered if the department had
that follow-up information.
MR. FECHTER deferred to DNR to respond.
3:42:09 PM
CHRISTY COLLES, Chief of Operations, Division of Mining, Land,
and Water, Department of Natural Resources, Anchorage, Alaska,
responded that the department calculated the average at $5,000
per acre for parcels.
SENATOR KIEHL asked for a sense of the range of the parcel sizes
and whether the parcels typically ranged from five to 20 acres
or one to 40 acres.
MS. COLLES answered that it varies, but usually, the parcels
range from about five to ten acres.
3:43:18 PM
SENATOR KIEHL noted that the committee passed a bill that
revised a staking program. He asked whether these vouchers could
be used to pay for surveys or appraisals under that type of
program or if they must be used solely for the purchase price of
the land from the state.
MS. COLLES answered the vouchers could be used towards the
purchase price. She stated that for the current Remote
Recreational Cabin Sites Staking Program, the costs are
sometimes included in the purchase price. However, the
department currently envisions the vouchers being used for the
purchase price or value of the land.
SENATOR KIEHL related his understanding that the Alaska State
Land Sales parcels include the surveying and appraisal costs. He
asked whether the vouchers could indirectly cover those costs.
MS. COLLES answered yes. She stated that the subdivision sales
were surveyed, appraised, and included in the purchase amount.
She said the vouchers could not be used for the Remote
Recreational Cabin Sites Staking Program survey or appraisal
costs but could be used for the land purchase price, reducing
out-of-pocket expenses for those using vouchers.
3:45:04 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked if multiple vouchers could be used to
purchase land. He wondered if family members or friends could
combine vouchers or if only one could be used per purchase.
MS. COLLES answered that the department does not limit how many
vouchers could be used to purchase the property.
3:45:45 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE asked if the vouchers could be characterized as
legal tender. He wondered if someone could purchase vouchers if
they wanted to combine vouchers to buy the land.
MS. COLLES deferred to the Department of Revenue (DOR). She
related her understanding that people could sell their vouchers
to other individuals, but she would like to confirm it with DOR.
3:46:27 PM
MR. FECHTER responded that the vouchers were transferable. He
acknowledged that a person could purchase vouchers from family
members, friends, or strangers. He anticipated that there would
be a healthy secondary market for the land vouchers.
3:46:57 PM
SENATOR KIEHL asked whether the Division of Banking Securities,
Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development
(DCCED), would consider the land vouchers as negotiable
instruments or regulated securities.
MR. FECHTER answered that the Department of Revenue understood
that the vouchers would not be heavily regulated or present a
significant burden to DCCED.
3:48:09 PM
SENATOR KIEHL expressed concern that the land vouchers may be
negotiable instruments under the state's banking and securities
laws and that implications for certain people. He recalled the
committee discussed at its meeting on January 31, 2022, that
Alaskans who rely on public assistance might be excluded from
the necessary public assistance if they participate in this
voucher program. He expressed further concern about the effect
on DNR's Land Disposal Income Fund (LDIF), which funds the
appraisals required to get subdivisions ready for sale. He noted
that DNR's fiscal analysis indicated that the fiscal note
reflects an indeterminate loss to the LDIF. The committee heard
a presentation by the department suggesting that the bill would
result in significantly more land sales. He predicted that the
effect of these vouchers would dramatically drain the fund. He
wondered if it would be better to appropriate general fund
monies to the LDIF to create numerous subdivisions rather than
issue questionable vouchers. Doing so would allow more Alaskans
to purchase remote cabin sites.
SENATOR KIEHL stated that while he supports the environmental
opportunities for people to buy vouchers and preserve habitat or
conservation parcels, he has many questions as this bill moves
forward.
3:51:30 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE expressed concern about it not being
serviceable, given the various plans for the PFD calculation,
including the 50:50 proposal. He referred to page 3, line 9, to
subsection (b) and asked whether the committee should insert
"concurrent statutory" on line 10 before permanent fund dividend
and remove the language "as would be calculated under AS
43.23.025." He said that by doing so, the current statutory
formula would work, as would any future statutory language.
3:53:00 PM
MR. FECHTER asked whether he was suggesting adding language
related to the current statutory formula.
SENATOR MICCICHE answered yes.
MR. FECHTER responded that it would fit well into the governor's
intent with SB 84 because it would give people the option of
receiving a voucher that has a value close to the statutory
dividend. He characterized it as a friendly amendment that the
administration would support.
3:53:47 PM
At ease
3:55:09 PM
CHAIR REVAK reconvened the meeting.
3:55:22 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 1.
CONCEPTUAL AMENDMENT 1
On page 3, line 9, preceding "permanent":
Insert "current statutory"
On page 3, line 9, following "dividend":
Delete "as would be calculated under AS 43.23.025"
3:55:25 PM
CHAIR REVAK objected for discussion purposes.
SENATOR MICCICHE explained Conceptual Amendment 1. He stated
that the legislature recognizes the current statutory formula.
However, if the formula were to change in the future, SB 84
would not work, and the administration would have to request a
statutory change. Conceptual Amendment 1 would remedy it.
CHAIR REVAK asked him to read the language as revised by
Conceptual Amendment 1.
3:56:19 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE read subsection (b), as amended by Conceptual
Amendment 1.
(b) Notwithstanding the amount appropriated for the
permanent fund dividend in a fiscal year, the value of
each state land voucher must equal twice that of the
current statutory permanent fund dividend for that
fiscal year if 50 percent of the income available for
distribution were transferred to the dividend fund
under AS 37.13.145(b).
3:56:40 PM
CHAIR REVAK [withdrew his objection.]; he found no further
objection, and Conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted.
3:57:03 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE moved to report SB 84, 32-GS1612\A, as amended,
from committee with individual recommendations and attached
fiscal note(s).
CHAIR REVAK found no objection, and CSSB 84(RES) was reported
from the Senate Resources Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 84 Committee Follow-up 2.8.22.pdf |
SRES 5/2/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 84 |