Legislature(2023 - 2024)BUTROVICH 205
04/12/2023 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB78 | |
| Consideration of Governor Appointees | |
| SB92 | |
| SB69 | |
| Presentation(s): Alaska's Geothermal Resources | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 92 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 69 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 78 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 69-GEOTHERMAL RESOURCES
3:47:14 PM
CO-CHAIR BISHOP reconvened the meeting and announced the
consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 69 "An Act relating to
geothermal resources; relating to the definition of 'geothermal
resources'; and providing for an effective date."
He noted that this was the first hearing.
3:47:40 PM
JOHN BOYLE, Commissioner-Designee, Department of Natural
Resources, Anchorage, Alaska, stated that a most important
priority for DNR is to advance energy security in Alaska. He
highlighted that while a number of areas within the state should
be very conducive to geothermal exploration and development,
these areas had not been delineated and characterized for
decades. He said it is also important to ensure that the leasing
statutes and regulations encourage and promote the exploration
and development of the identified energy resources. DNR believes
that advances in technology provide multiple opportunities to
develop geothermal resources along the volcanic chain and areas
in the Interior with both warm and hot springs. SB 69 is
important to this effort.
3:51:15 PM
JOHN CROWTHER, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Natural
Resources, Anchorage, Alaska, described the presentation and
introduced DR. LePain.
3:51:41 PM
DR. DAVID LEPAIN, Director and State Geologist, Division of
Geological and Geophysical Surveys, Department of Natural
Resources, Fairbanks, Alaska, began the presentation on slide 4,
"Fundamental Ingredients of Useable Geothermal Energy." He
explained that the graphic on the left shows a typical high
temperature hydrothermal system that used hot water at depth to
power turbines that generate electricity. There is a power plant
at the surface and production wells (represented with the red
arrows) that move hot fluid up from depth. The hot fluid goes
into the system and turns a turbine that generates power. The
fluid that has gone through this process has cooled and is
reinjected at some distance from the production wells.
He described the following requirements:
• Elevated geothermal gradient
• Porosity and permeability for the migration of
fluids
• Surface access
• Sufficiently large thermal system
• Customers for energy
3:54:11 PM
CO-CHAIR BISHOP asked Mr. Crowther if this type of reinjection
well would need Class VI certification.
MR. CROWTHER answered that geothermal wells fall under Class V
of the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) underground
injection control program for the Safe Water Act. The Class V
category applies to the injection of non-hazardous fluids. He
noted that Class VI certification is for injection of carbon
dioxide for carbon sequestration purposes.
CO-CHAIR BISHOP asked what the timeline is to get Class V
certification.
MR. CROWTHER relayed his understanding that the EPA currently is
not permitting Class V wells for geothermal, but SB 69 does
authorize the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission (AOGCC)
to investigate it in the event that the EPA provides that
authorization in the future. He said he didn't know the
timeframes for other Class V permits, but the EPA has the
ability to issue the permits directly to the applicant without
the state assuming primacy. Geothermal wells are not complex and
should not take the 2-3 years that it can take for the EPA to
issue a permit for a Class VI well.
3:56:56 PM
CO-CHAIR GIESSEL asked the likelihood that the geothermal fluids
would contain minerals.
DR. LEPAIN replied it's a possibility, depending on the rocks
that the fluid comes from. He noted that lithium has been found
in some of the produced geothermal fluids in Nevada.
CO-CHAIR GIESSEL asked whether lithium is considered a hazardous
substance.
DR. LEPAIN replied that it would depend on the concentration. He
deferred to Mr. Crowther to discuss how that would affect the
regulations for the wells.
MR. CROWTHER said he'd follow up with the exact specifications
for the different classes of wells, but DNR's understanding is
that mineral concentrations that typically cycle in geothermal
systems fit within Class V. Most geothermal water is saline
brine with trace elements.
3:59:21 PM
DR. LEPAIN referenced the graphic on slide 4 and advised that if
there are hot dry rocks at depth, water can be injected and
circulated through those rocks then produced some distance away
for use in a power plant. The cooled water can then be
reinjected some distance from the production hole and the
process can be repeated. The fluid doesn't have to be hot but
hot rocks are a necessity.
DR. LEPAIN advanced to slide 5, "Heat Flow in Alaska." It shows
the color-coded natural heat flow from the earth superimposed on
a map of the state. He explained that the earth is a layered
system that has radioactive minerals at depth that generate heat
as they decay. He acknowledged that the map conveys the
inaccurate impression that every hole that's dug will result in
an elevated heat flow. He added that it does correctly convey
that much of the state has slightly elevated heat flow.
Importantly, the white symbols that run in a belt from the
Seward Peninsula to Circle and Central reflect geothermal
springs. He highlighted that of the 97 geothermal sites
scattered throughout the state, there was advanced understanding
of the system in just five of those sites. These are the
Makushin Volcano, Akutan, Spur, Pilgrim, and Chena. Only Chena
is producing. Little is known about the other 92 sites scattered
across the state, but widespread geothermal potential is
suggested.
4:02:49 PM
DR. LEPAIN advanced to the chart on slide 6, "Geothermal
Gradients." He explained that he provided this depth temperature
plot for reference. It shows that at the Makushin Volcano, the
temperature of the water at 2000 feet is a little warmer than
380 degrees Fahrenheit. It is a high temperature system. By
comparison, the temperature at Chena is a little more than 160
degrees Fahrenheit at a depth of 1000 feet. He underscored that
little is known about the other 92 spots and where they fit in
this depth temperature space.
4:04:00 PM
DR. LEPAIN advanced to slide 7, "Geothermal Resource Quality,"
and discussed the following:
Generation capacity per unit cost depends on several
geologic and economic factors:
• Temperature hotter is better
• Flow rate higher flow rates are
better
• Reservoir framework uniform porosity
better than fractures
• Recharge partially natural
better than all
artificial
• Depth shallower is less
expensive, thus
better
• Location, location? relative to
population,
transmission system,
development costs...
CO-CHAIR BISHOP commented that he could envision several
villages tied together to take advantage of one geothermal site.
4:06:22 PM
DR. LEPAIN advanced to slide 8 and spoke to the following
summary:
INTRODUCTION TO GEOTHERMAL RESOURCES
• Geothermal heat, where technically and economically
accessible, is an excellent form of sustainable
energy
• Hydrothermal systems are the most common form of
energy extraction from geothermal heat
• Complex geologic parameters necessary for a viable
geothermal resource, all present at one location, is
rare
• Alaska contains several potential geothermal
resources
• New technologies that will help expand geothermal
development into less favorable geology are on the
horizon
MR. CROWTHER advised that Mr. Huber was online to clarify the
interaction between Class V and the requirements for permitting
wells for geothermal.
4:08:07 PM
BRETT HUBER, Chair, Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission,
Anchorage, Alaska, stated that Class V is only necessary for the
injection portion of the wells. AOGCC currently has the
authority to permit to drill for exploratory wells, delineation
wells, and stratigraphy wells. Statute directs that the
turnaround time for those permits is to be as expedient as
practicable. In practice this translates to turnarounds in about
two weeks.
MR. CROWTHER advised that the supplemental information he
mentioned earlier begin on slide 29, "Supplemental Information."
4:09:09 PM
At ease
4:09:41 PM
CO-CHAIR BISHOP reconvened the meeting.
4:09:55 PM
DR. LEPAIN directed attention to the map on slide 30,
"Geothermal Systems of Alaska." It shows two broadly classed
geothermal systems: granite-related systems and volcano-related
systems. The latter are located in the Aleutian arc, up the
Alaskan Peninsula, and along the west side of the Cook Inlet
basin. Three granite-related systems have been identified: 1)
the east-west system that trends from the Seward Peninsula to
the hot springs at Circle and Central, 2) the Southwest system
that runs from Tatawiksuk in the northeast to Ophr, and 3) the
Southeast system. There are large granitic bodies that have been
intruded at 3000 to 5000 feet up into shallower crustal depths,
some of which are on the surface. These systems are up to 100
million years old. They've been cooling for a long time and are
still extremely hot.
The volcano-related systems stem from the Pacific crust
subducting under Southcentral Alaska. This generates magma that
rises and creates volcanoes. He advised that the next few slides
provide a closer look at each area.
4:12:33 PM
DR. LEPAIN advanced to slide 31 that identifies the geothermal
systems in the Fairbanks region. Each site is classified as high
temperature hot spring, hot spring, or warm spring. This region
has quite a few warm and hot springs, but no high temperature
hot spring. These sites are widespread and all are granite-
related. Many are off grid but have villages close by.
DR. LEPAIN advanced to slide 32 that identifies the geothermal
systems on the Seward Peninsula. He identified Pilgrim Hot
Springs, the high temperature hot spring at Serpentine, and hot
springs at Lava Creek, Koyuk, Golovin, Elim, Nome, and Kotzebue.
With the exception of Pilgrim, not much is known about these
systems.
DR. LEPAIN advanced to slide 33 which identifies the volcano-
related systems along the Alaska Peninsula and the eastern part
of the Aleutian chain. He identified the Makushin Volcano and
the high-temperature hot springs at Hot Springs Cove, Partov
Cove, and Akutan. Makushin is in the process of being developed
and work has been done at Akutan, but it's not being developed.
These systems are widely distributed along the chain and up into
the upper peninsula, but not much is known about most of them.
4:15:07 PM
DR. LEPAIN advanced to slide 34 which shows geothermal resources
in Southeast Alaska. There are high-temperature hot springs at
Bailey Bay and Tenakee Inlet, and a number of warm and hot
springs are scattered throughout the region. They are all
granite-related systems, and not much is known about them other
than the temperature and flow rate of the water coming from the
spring, and perhaps the chemistry of the water.
DR. LEPAIN underscored how widespread the geothermal resource
potential is in the state and how little is known about it.
4:16:26 PM
CO-CHAIR BISHOP asked if he had more details on what Nevada has
been doing to produce power from geothermal resources.
DR. LEPAIN offered to follow up with details for Nevada. He
noted that California, Idaho, and potentially Utah have been
producing power with geothermal resources.
4:17:38 PM
SENATOR DUNBAR commented that it seems that the geothermal
resources generally are where the population isn't. He noted
that the largest gap was in the Anchorage and MatSu area. He
asked three questions: 1) whether the development on the
Aleutians was associated with the fish processing plant, 2)
whether mines were exploring geothermal as a potential power
source, and 3) what the land ownership looks like and whether
access to the resource would be difficult on federal land.
DR. LEPAIN responded that he knows that some of the sites in the
central belt from the Seward Peninsula to the Canadian border
are on federal land. He acknowledged that he didn't know how
difficult it might be to develop those sites.
SENATOR DUNBAR asked for information about industrial users like
mines and fish processors.
DR. LEPAIN said he understands that the project underway at
Makushin Volcano will provide power to the City of Unalaska and
the fish processor in the area. He mentioned the slow
development of the Donlin Gold Mine and posited that one
geothermal plant in that area could be a game changer.
4:20:41 PM
MR. CROWTHER thanked the committee and advised that DNR would
give a detailed review of the bill at a future meeting.
CO-CHAIR BISHOP held SB 69 in committee.