Legislature(2021 - 2022)BUTROVICH 205
03/17/2021 09:00 AM Senate EDUCATION
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB32 | |
| SB36 | |
| SB10 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 36 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 32 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SB 10 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 32-COLLEGE CREDIT FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS
9:03:47 AM
CHAIR HOLLAND announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 32
"An Act establishing the Alaska middle college program for
public school students; and relating to the powers of the
University of Alaska."
He asked Senator Stevens if he had any additional comments on
the bill.
9:04:01 AM
SENATOR GARY STEVENS, speaking as sponsor, said the committee
has dealt with this issue a lot. It is simply a dual credit
system and partnership between school districts and colleges. It
will be a great aid for school districts and for the University
of Alaska.
9:04:29 AM
CHAIR HOLLAND opened public testimony on SB 32.
9:04:46 AM
CHRIS REITAN, Superintendent, Craig City School District, Craig,
Alaska, said he appreciates the intent of the bill to increase
the access for high school students to the University of Alaska
(UA) system. It allows families a greater choice of options and
provides a way for students who might not consider UA to think
about that possibility after high school. It is a great tool for
all school districts to provide more choice and options for
families and a strong individualized learning plan for each
student. His only concern is with the following on page 3:
(e) An agreement entered into by a school district and
the University of Alaska under (b) of this section
must outline the manner in which costs associated with
the program will be shared between the participating
school district and the University of Alaska.
MR. REITAN expressed concern that without more specificity in
that section, it might appear as an unfunded mandate, especially
during the current economic climate, the pandemic, and the
additional costs being borne by school districts. He is
concerned that SB 32 requires additional responsibility without
additional funding. He would appreciate more specifics about how
the costs would be shared. He appreciates the intent of the
bill. It spells out a nice path for more students to access the
high quality programs at the UA system.
9:07:05 AM
NORM WOOTEN, Director of Advocacy, Association of Alaska School
Boards, Juneau, Alaska, said that years ago when he was on the
local school board, his school district created a dual credit
program with the local branch of the University of Alaska
Anchorage. This was groundbreaking, and it worked well for both
institutions and especially for students. His own daughters
received dual credit and college credit. However, Section 2
seems to require that all school districts with eligible
students must participate in the middle college program. His
organization is a strong proponent of local control. The
association agrees with making this opportunity available to
districts with a protocol in place. There are provisions in SB
32 that are appropriate and much appreciated, such as ensuring
readiness of students for college-level work and cost-sharing
opportunities between the university and districts. However, he
would encourage the legislators to respect the long-held belief
in Alaska of local control in education.
CHAIR HOLLAND asked if anyone wanted to address the concerns
raised.
9:09:29 AM
SENATOR BEGICH offered his understanding that a school district
has to enter into an agreement. If school districts do not want
to enter into one, even though there is a "must" clause, the
agreement would say the school district is not going to
participate, so it is not imposing a mandate. The mandate must
be a mutual agreement between the two. As he understands the
program in Mat-Su, those costs are generally borne as a
combination of the Average Daily Membership and the university
itself waiving fees. He recognizes the concern expressed by
Superintendent Reitan and Norm Wooten, but it may be creating
much ado about fairly little. This was discussed last year. The
bill is written to make it a mutual agreement. There may be a
misunderstanding. He asked for a clarification from the sponsor.
SENATOR STEVENS said the bill is intended to respect local
school districts, so they can enter or not enter into the
agreement. It is an opportunity but the school district may
choose not to take advantage of it. Nothing in this bill
requires anyone to enter into a program they don't wish to. He
deferred further comment to Mr. Lamkin.
9:11:25 AM
TIM LAMKIN, Staff, Senator Gary Stevens, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, said the conversation has been
going on for many years. The bill is not intended to be
prescriptive or to micromanage. It sets up a framework, and
there shall be an agreement between the university and
prospective school districts. The agreement could be that there
will not be a middle college in that district.
9:12:00 AM
SENATOR HUGHES said that subsection (d) on page 3 says that
every school district shall provide information about the
program to students and parents of students. The bill is saying
that the mutual agreement is that the district is not interested
in providing the program, but the bill is also telling school
districts they must provide information about the middle college
program. She asked how those work together.
MR. LAMKIN said much of the onus of these programs is on the
university to provide the information to districts that middle
college opportunities are available. That information is not
only to be known by the districts but also by parents so,
locally, parents can negotiate with school districts to say that
they want a middle college and work to develop one in their
school districts.
SENATOR HUGHES said that to play the devil's advocate, if the
district feels it cannot do it because it will be cost
prohibitive in a small school that needs the student's ADM
(Average Daily Membership) to keep the regular high school
teachers, the district doesn't want an agreement; the district
wants that the agreement is not to offer it. But the district is
still instructed to tell parents that there is a middle college
program out there, and the parents say they want their child to
be in it, but there is no such agreement. There is a problem
with this being congruent with the part that this is optional
for districts. Perhaps the "shall" should be "may" if the bill
gives districts the option.
CHAIR HOLLAND read page 2, line 20, "the university will make
the program available to school districts in the state" and
opined that if it is being made available, it cannot say "may"
provide information. If it's being made available, information
must be provided. That could be clarified a little, but Section
b is the option for the district to enter a program or not and
Section d is that if a district is in a program, it must provide
information about it.
9:14:52 AM
SENATOR MICCICHE said he is not sure that is how he reads it. He
offered his belief that it says an agreement must be entered
into. Line 22 on page 2 doesn't say that the agreement can be
that the district is not going to participate. It says an
agreement under this subsection must allow any student under (c)
of this section to participate in the program. Page 3, line 2,
doesn't say every district agreeing to enter into providing
middle college services shall provide information about the
program. He doesn't read it as voluntary. He doesn't see how
there can be an agreement to not provide services because of the
eligibility requirements on page 2, lines 22-24. He said he
supports the program, but it should be voluntary for districts
that may or may not be able to support the program. That is his
only concern. He has heard that from several districts. He
wonders if there are opportunities to clarify for those
districts that don't feel they can afford the program.
CHAIR HOLLAND said he still sees the university "shall" make the
program available and the districts then enter into an
agreement, but he will leave it up to the bill sponsor to decide
if it needs to be reworded.
CHAIR HOLLAND returned to public testimony.
9:17:21 AM
SCOTT MACMANUS, Superintendent, Alaska Gateway School District,
Tok, Alaska, said he reads the bill as a mandate. As a concept,
he is in favor of what SB 32 does for many students, but there
are important mechanics of the statute that will have unintended
consequences for small rural school districts like his. He has
several schools with one or two teachers. The savings that might
be incurred in a larger district by reducing staff is not an
option available for him. With some small changes, this could be
good bill. He has promoted this in his school district for more
than 20 years. A number of graduates in his district have
received their associate of arts degrees shortly before they
received their high school diplomas because the district worked
with students and parents and supported the students with
tutoring and internet access and financial support. His district
created a great program that is in place today. The district is
a good partner with the local university and sends many students
to the university system to get one or two classes or
certifications or degrees. It is hard for him to speak against
this bill because Senator Stevens and Senator Micciche are big
supporters of education, but as written this could end up
hurting districts and some students if the district is required
to let them do it. Alaska Gateway has a good counseling program
in place for students. A large number of families do not have
college in their backgrounds. The district is trying to change
that, but it takes time and processes and trust between the
schools and families. This may save some districts money, but it
won't save his district money. In fact, 30 credits of
undergraduate tuition will cost three times the allocation that
the district provides to correspondence students. The allocation
now is $2,400. Families can spend that on college and sometimes
the district supplements that. If every family in his district
did that, he would have to close the correspondence program. He
knows there is nuance in the language about entering into an
agreement but the bill does seem to force districts to agree to
something. He is a fan of the university system, but he cannot
support the bill as written.
9:21:04 AM
SENATOR HUGHES said that she loves this concept. It has been
highly successful in Mat-Su, but she understands how costs can
factor in for small school districts. She is not sure that
Senator Micciche made this point already about "An agreement
under this subsection must allow any student eligible under (c)
of this section to participate in the program." Even if the
agreement is, which will be a strange agreement, to not enter
into an agreement, in the scenario she had described in which an
eligible student wanted to participate but the district was not
entering into an agreement, this now says a student must be able
to participate. As much as she loves the bill, she thinks the
committee needs to work on the language. She asked if the
sponsor had any thoughts on that. She would love it if students
in small districts could do this, but there needs to be a way to
pay for it. That may be beyond the bill at this point.
CHAIR HOLLAND asked Senator Stevens if he had any comment.
9:22:31 AM
SENATOR STEVENS said the focus of the bill is on the student and
what is good for the student and how to help the student.
Legislators have been talking about this a long time. It has
never been their intention to harm school districts, to harm any
who don't want to participate. He is surprised that this is
coming up now. They have been talking about this for many
meetings. It appears to be an organized effort to put a stake to
the heart of this bill. That would be a mistake. That is all he
will say at this point. He is anxious to hear other comments.
SENATOR BEGICH said that he shares the view of the sponsor. When
legislators hear from people that a bill doesn't work, he wants
to hear the suggestions for repairing it. This happens with bill
after bill after bill. People will say they oppose a bill and
don't offer a solution. He will offer a solution that he thinks
addresses everything he heard today, including Senator Hughes'
comments. On line 24, if those disagreements are sincere, the
period would be replaced with a comma and say, "unless a
district elects not to participate." That clears up any issue
about participation. It still provides the opportunity for the
student and maintains the requirement for the university to let
every district know about the program and will resolve the issue
about a mandate. Adding "unless a district elects not to
participate" clarifies the issue of whether there is or isn't an
agreement. The issue of the agreement becomes the negotiation
between the district and the university, which is the intent of
the bill. That resolves the issue and it can be done quickly and
rapidly without slowing down the passage of the bill. If it is
the will of the chair, he would offer that as a conceptual
amendment. If it is not the will of the chair, he will not offer
the amendment.
CHAIR HOLLAND replied that there is more public testimony and he
jotted those notes down.
9:25:17 AM
At ease
9:27:55 AM
CHAIR HOLLAND reconvened the meeting and continued public
testimony.
9:28:15 AM
PATRICK MAYER, Superintendent, Aleutians East Borough School
District, Sandpoint, Alaska, said he believes everyone supports
increased opportunities for students as they exit the K-12
school system. Aleutians East provides opportunities for
students to take part in college courses through the University
of Alaska Anchorage within its capability to do so. The capacity
to provide online content is limited in many rural areas of
Alaska. This is definitely true in the Aleutians. To make this
mandatory would be difficult because Aleutians East does not
have the bandwidth to support such a program. It is also a
financial challenge for the district. There has been no Base
Student Allocation adjustment for seven years. This will further
erode the capacity for his district to provide existing
programs. The middle college concept should be voluntary not
mandatory. Colleagues in larger districts who participated in
middle colleges have done so voluntarily. Smaller districts have
keenly watched that and increased their opportunities for
students to take college classes within their capability to do
so. Smaller school districts would have difficulty downsizing to
accommodate this change. It is a matter of scale. Even if his
district had the bandwidth, if it had to remove students from
current course offerings it would be challenging. This is not as
much an issue in larger districts because it is a matter of
scale. He asked the committee to consider advancing the bill
with an opt-in provision.
9:31:57 AM
LISA PARADY, Ph.D., Executive Director, Alaska Council of School
Administrators, Juneau, Alaska, said that Senator Stevens is
acknowledged as the champion of all students and public
education. The committee has heard from Norm Wooten and several
members of the council. The council does support the concept of
providing opportunity for all high school students to enroll in
college courses, but there is potential added expense for some
school districts. Maybe more clarity is needed about the
agreements between the university and districts. A "may" vs. a
"shall" as Senator Begich suggested would be an excellent
clarification.
9:33:14 AM
DR. PARADY said her members support choice and this increased
opportunity for all students and support SB 32 with the
exception of it being required of all districts. It could be
made voluntary. Middle colleges are working so well in the
districts that have chosen to go in this direction and it should
operate the same in other districts. Perhaps, as Senator Hughes,
Senator Micciche, and Senator Begich suggested, the bill does
"shall or may." Last year the committee talked about flipping
this so the university waived costs, making it cost neutral.
Perhaps amending the bill should be considered to include full
funding for districts who wish to participate a middle college
program, some additional work about how to make this work for
all districts who are not similarly situated. It is a great
program. Her members support this increased opportunity
available to all students. In districts where it has been
organically, like Anchorage, Mat-Su, Fairbanks, and Kodiak, it
has been hugely successful. Those opportunities should be
available in all districts but in a way that is cost neutral.
For example, if six kids in Chevak want to enroll in middle
college, Chevak could not adjust down its personnel to meet the
tuition expense to make it cost neutral. Chevak would likely
need to hire an aide to work with the students as they work
online, assuming they have the bandwidth or connectivity to do
that. A three-credit lower division class cost $700 plus. If six
kids in Chevak took a class, it would be over $4,000, and the
cost of an aide to supervise. It is a real cost and not cost
neutral. That is what she is hearing from members. There is
total support for the concept and this bill, but it should be
reworked so it is an opt-in or not required.
9:36:29 AM
SENATOR BEGICH said he did not suggest that the word "shall" be
replaced with "may." He suggested that the intent, which is on
the record, be clarified, which is that an agreement could be to
not enter into an agreement. That is all he is suggesting. He
does not think the bill imposes a burden on a district as
districts have the right to refuse to participate. He is
confused because this is the first opposition he has heard about
this bill.
9:37:21 AM
SENATOR MICCICHE said he too does not like the way that process
has gone. He supports this program wholeheartedly, and is a
cosponsor. He is trying to help the sponsor get the bill across
the finish line in a way that doesn't drive additional costs for
some districts. He told Dr. Parady that it would be helpful to
understand what those districts look like. Perhaps, without
complicating the bill dramatically, either the committee makes
it an opt-in for some or have another way to move this forward
where the committee understands the kind of districts that
potentially would be negatively impacted. He doesn't understand
at what size it has a potential negative impact. He wants to
understand that better. Dr. Parady said six kids in Chevak. That
is an extreme. And Dr. Bishop will speak highly of the program
in a place that has tens of thousands of students. There is
probably somewhere in between where there is a line. He asked if
she could help with that. If not during this meeting, they will
need to know that.
DR. PARADY responded that it is a matter of scale. There is a
point where it would add additional costs. She could ask members
for a point of clarification. The example she gave was an
extreme, but she wanted to give an example of what some
testifiers might have been speaking to. As a point of
clarification, when she referred to Senator Begich, she was
referring to the sentence he offered, which would fully clarify
the bill. She will get that information to Senator Micciche.
CHAIR HOLLAND called on Dr. Bishop
9:40:19 AM
DEENA BISHOP, Ph.D., Superintendent, Anchorage School District,
Anchorage, Alaska, said SB 32 is an important bill. Alaska has
relied on volunteerism for much too long, while at the same time
its children are the lowest reading performers in the country
and according to the January 2021 Alaska Performance Scholarship
report, the lowest college-going, career and technical education
apprenticeship-going students as well. It is time to change this
trajectory with partnerships, not only among different sectors
at different universities, or K-12 and universities, but it is
time that school districts learn to work together to make this
come to fruition. "We are very smart people who can figure out
very intricate, complex problems," she said.
9:41:38 AM
DR. BISHOP said if school districts are charged, as this bill
states, to figure out how all the children in Alaska could
possibly be offered a dual-credit program, she guarantees that
there are smart superintendents who can get together and figure
this out. They can have cooperatives. She is working with the
Lower Yukon and a Lower Yukon student is attending [the
Anchorage School District] Alaska Middle College. Lower Yukon
has offered a pathway for other kids in rural Alaska to join.
She said she too regrets the 11th hour pushback by educators on
this and many other important bills that can change what is
happening with education in the state.
DR. BISHOP said that the University of Alaska system has made it
very affordable for school districts to have dual credit. If a
child goes individually, the child may pay full price for
tuition, but she wants to share that universities have offered
MOUs (memorandum of understanding) to allow the jobs to be
shared. The advising doesn't happen on the university side, so
her district gets a break on the tuition. A lot of the services
included in tuition are not provided because a child is not on
site for dual credit online, so the university creates a lower
payment plan. The university has been very accommodating to
these kids.
DR. BISHOP offered her belief that the state can do this. She
worked in Mat-Su and Anchorage and it is true they have economy
of scale, but it was a choice. They went without other things
that didn't work for children to be able to offer this to kids.
They are not successful as a K-12 institution if they do not
prepare kids for life afterwards. That is to be life, college-
and-career ready. This bill ensures that kids can have that
opportunity. She promises this group that she will work her
hardest to figure out how to make this work in all districts and
offer whatever they can to partner in the cost. This is
important to Alaskan children.
9:44:43 AM
SENATOR HUGHES noted that when Dr. Bishop was in Mat-Su, she was
able to work out the cost with the smaller district. She asked
if she has a sense that larger districts may be able to do that
for all the smaller districts so that it would not be cost
prohibitive.
DR. BISHOP replied absolutely. Anchorage is the one, the cost
center for the BSA. Per student Anchorage receives a little over
$10,000 with the adjusted ADM (Average Daily Membership). The
school district that Anchorage works with receives over $20,000
per child. That district spends only a small portion of that
with the Anchorage School District flowing through the
university. What that small school district cannot offer for
supports, wraparound services, advising, etc., Anchorage has
taken on that and the university does its part by offering
courses. She believes all the different hubs that have economy
of scale can help out partner districts. It is true that may
only have one or two students interested, but they are valued
kids in Alaska who should also have that opportunity.
9:46:47 AM
PAUL LAYER, Vice President, Academics, Students, and Research,
University of Alaska, Fairbanks, Alaska, said that as he
testified last week, the university supports dual enrollment for
students. The university has over 30 MOUs with school districts,
large and small, to offer many types of middle college programs.
Some are face-to-face intensive, such as with the Anchorage,
Mat-Su, and Fairbanks school districts. Some are more online or
virtual, and more of a partnership with the district. As the
university has entered voluntary agreements with districts, the
university has looked at the cost models to look at what works
for the districts and the students in particular. There is not
one model that works for each school district. The university
respects that and respects the goal, which is access for
students and to prepare students for university and for careers.
That has been the focus on the university. It is willing to work
with school districts. It has been voluntary to date. The
university wants to expand that option to all students, however
that can be done. In some dual-enrollment options the district
teacher who meet the credentialing criteria teaches the class.
The most important thing is whether students achieve university-
level competency in subjects. Every MOU will look different. The
focus is to provide access to students wherever they are.
9:49:44 AM
SENATOR HUGHES said if she were still in a small district, she
would want her children to have access to this opportunity. She
asked if he agrees with Dr. Bishop who is confident that
partnerships could be worked out so that it would not be cost
prohibitive. She also asked if the university is committed to
working out arrangements and district partnerships so that every
high school student in the state who wants to participate could.
DR. LAYER answered absolutely. Alaska Advantage, the online
middle college program, is working with Chevak on how that might
be achieved. The university is ultimately looking at reaching
out to all districts to ask how it might provide that access,
whether districts are large or small and whether the university
needs to work out partnerships between large and small
districts. The university is committed to making this work.
9:52:03 AM
CHAIR HOLLAND closed public testimony on SB 32.
9:52:08 AM
At ease
9:54:08 AM
CHAIR HOLLAND reconvened the meeting and asked if there were any
further comments.
SENATOR MICCICHE said he believes in this program and that every
student deserves the opportunity to jump start their lives with
middle college. If there are issues with this bill, it has other
committees to go through. In light of the fact that any issues
were brought to the committee at the 11th hour and the committee
at this point does not know if any adjustment is needed, the
reality is they all support the program and will let it go
through the process.
9:55:16 AM
SENATOR MICCICHE moved to report SB 32, work order 32-LS0307\A,
from committee with individual recommendations and attached
fiscal note(s).
CHAIR HOLLAND found no objection, SB 32 was reported from the
Senate Education Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 10 v. B Sectional Analysis 1.26.2021.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 10 |
| SB 10 v. B Sponsor Statement 1.26.2021.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 10 |
| SB 10 v. B Supporting Document Union calls on state to treat Alaska grocery workers as first responders ADN.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM SFIN 4/8/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 10 |
| SB 10 v. B Supporting Document Univ. of Alaska - Workforce Reports Summary.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 10 |
| SB 10 v. B Fiscal Note 3096.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 10 |
| SB 10 v. B Fiscal Note 2738.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 10 |
| SB 10 alaska_essential_services_and_critical_workers.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 10 |
| SB 36 Committee Substitute.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 36 |
| SB 10 University of Alaska Presentation.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 10 |
| SB 36 Explanation of Changes in version B.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 36 |
| Letter in support of SB10 2-2021.pdf |
SEDC 3/17/2021 9:00:00 AM SFIN 4/8/2021 9:00:00 AM |
SB 10 |