04/26/2024 08:00 AM House EDUCATION

                     SB 29-CIVICS EDUCATION                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:05:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR ALLARD announced that the  first order of business would                                                               
be CS  FOR SENATE BILL  NO. 29(FIN),  "An Act relating  to civics                                                               
education,  civics assessments,  and secondary  school graduation                                                               
requirements; and providing for an effective date."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:06:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RUFFRIDGE  moved to adopt  the proposed  House committee                                                               
substitute  (HCS)  for  CSSB  29(FIN),  Version  33-LS0246\Y,  A.                                                               
Radford/Bergerud, 4/23/24, as the working document.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:06:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 8:06 a.m. to 8:07 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:07:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RUFFRIDGE objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:07:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TIM   LAMKIN,  Staff,   Senator   Gary   Stevens,  Alaska   State                                                               
Legislature,  presented the  changes  to  CSSB 29(FIN),  proposed                                                               
under the  House committee  substitute, Version  Y, on  behalf of                                                               
Senator Stevens, prime  sponsor.  He noted that  the four changes                                                               
in the  House committee  substitute (CS)  incorporated amendments                                                               
previously discussed with each committee member and their staff.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:10:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  ALLARD asked  whether  committee  members had  comments                                                               
before public testimony.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:10:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HIMSCHOOT  observed that the fiscal  note was from                                                               
2023 and questioned whether it was still current.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMKIN  affirmed that  the fiscal  note should  be consistent                                                               
due  to  the bill  not  having  much  activity since  last  year;                                                               
however, Version  Y could possibly  result in an  adjusted fiscal                                                               
note.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:11:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease at 8:11 a.m.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:11:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAMKIN, in  response  to further  request for  clarification                                                               
from Representative Himschoot, said  the most current fiscal note                                                               
was  dated January  10,  2024, and  reflected  a $276,000  fiscal                                                               
note,  which was  consistent with  what was  reported out  of the                                                               
Senate Finance Committee last year.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:12:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STORY  sought  clarity  regarding  a  requirement                                                               
under Version Y  regarding "either has achieved  a passing score"                                                               
or "completed a project-based assessment"  when she observed from                                                               
reading the bill  language that it seemed like "you  must do all"                                                               
rather than "either/or."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAMKIN pointed  out that  page  61, subsection  (c), of  the                                                               
Manual of  Legislative Drafting,  published by  Legislative Legal                                                             
Services,  referenced  the  use  of words  and  phrases  such  as                                                               
"and/or" as being too ambiguous.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STORY stated  that she  would like  the "memo  on                                                               
that" when Mr. Lamkin can provide it.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:13:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 8:13 a.m. to 8:14 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:14:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAMKIN  confirmed that  the  document  is available  on  the                                                               
Alaska State Legislature website under publications.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:15:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RUFFRIDGE removed  his objection to the  motion to adopt                                                               
the proposed  House committee substitute (HCS)  for CSSB 29(FIN),                                                               
Version  33-LS0246\Y,   A.  Radford/Bergerud,  4/23/24,   as  the                                                               
working document.   There being  no further objection,  Version Y                                                               
was before the committee.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:16:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 8:16 a.m. to 8:22 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:22:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR ALLARD opened public testimony on SB 29.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
8:22:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL FUHS, representing self, testified in  support of SB 29.  He                                                               
stressed his belief that it  was important for kids to understand                                                               
the civic structure of  the state and what it means  to them.  He                                                               
noted the importance  of all resources in the state  and how they                                                               
affect  the  future should  also  be  understood.   He  said  the                                                               
information  children  are  getting  currently  is  not  correct;                                                               
recent polls showed that children are misinformed.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:26:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALEX KOPLIN, representing  self, stated that he  was still trying                                                               
to  figure  out the  final  bill  and  that he  supported  civics                                                               
education  but had  concern  with  the amendments.    He said  he                                                               
supported  the  alternatives  proposed,  but in  some  areas,  he                                                               
questioned why  the proposals would be  in a civics bill  and not                                                               
some other area.  He shared his  concern that he did not think he                                                               
could get behind the bill until he saw a final version.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:28:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  ALLARD,  after  ascertaining  no  one  else  wished  to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony on SB 29.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:28:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX moved  to adopt  Conceptual  Amendment 1  to                                                               
Version Y.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY objected for purpose of discussion.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX   explained  that  Conceptual   Amendment  1                                                               
proposes a title change related  to environmental and sustainable                                                               
resource development education and inserts  a new section on page                                                               
2,  line  11.   He  further  explained  that  it adds  the  words                                                               
"environmental and  sustainable development" so  that sustainable                                                               
development is  added into the  education curriculum as  Mr. Fuhs                                                               
had alluded to in his testimony.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:30:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   MCCORMICK  provided   his  perspective   on  the                                                               
amendment and  reflected on a  comment made  by Mr. Fuhs  about a                                                               
lack of  resource development  leading to  boarding schools.   He                                                               
added  that the  children who  were forcibly  removed from  their                                                               
homes to  be put in boarding  schools were used for  unpaid labor                                                               
in resource development,  which he said he wanted  to correct for                                                               
the record.  He related that  he appreciated the sentiment in the                                                               
amendment, but  in the scope of  civics, he opined it  "flies way                                                               
out of the  lane" of what a civics education  should be trying to                                                               
accomplish.   He concluded that  he appreciated the  dialogue but                                                               
would not support the amendment.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:32:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STORY referred to the  fiscal note to help develop                                                               
civics  education, but  there was  another  topic presented  with                                                               
Version Y  which she said  may add  to the existing  fiscal note.                                                               
She suggested to consider another  bill in another session due to                                                               
a bigger fiscal note  and not much more room in  the budget.  She                                                               
confirmed she did not support the amendment.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:33:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HIMSCHOOT referenced  her time  as a  teacher and                                                               
that she was involved in  an environmental literacy program which                                                               
involved natural  resources.   She said she  saw a  connection to                                                               
civics due  to the  word "history" being  used, and  although she                                                               
saw  value, she  said she  would welcome  a different  bill on  a                                                               
different day and that it strays  from the original intent of the                                                               
civics education bill.  She  said she supported the amendment but                                                               
opined it does not fit with "what we are doing today."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:34:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMKIN said  he appreciated the dialogue and  shared with the                                                               
committee that Senator  Stevens had worked on  the subject matter                                                               
[in  the bill]  extensively.   Mr.  Lamkin gave  a definition  of                                                               
civics from a  "Google" search and said it  ducktails with public                                                               
policy   which  included   things   such   as  natural   resource                                                               
development.   It is, however, a  departure from the bill  and he                                                               
spoke on behalf of Senator Stevens  that he would not support the                                                               
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:36:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX said he appreciated  recent comments and that                                                               
the CS could  be included in another bill;  therefore, he [moved]                                                               
to  withdraw  the  Conceptual  Amendment  1.    [There  being  no                                                               
objection, it was so ordered.]                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:37:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX moved  to adopt  Conceptual Amendment  2, to                                                               
delete lines 1 through 11 on page 2 of Version Y.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:38:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX acknowledged previous  comments made that the                                                               
bill is  a civics bill  and not a history  bill.  The  removal of                                                               
lines 1 through  11 would take out the study  of other systems of                                                               
government  that are  listed.   He  noted the  importance of  the                                                               
systems, but he  opined that they belong in  a history curriculum                                                               
as opposed to a civics curriculum.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:40:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR ALLARD offered  her support to include all  areas of the                                                               
curriculum; therefore, she opposed Conceptual Amendment 2.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:41:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMKIN  reiterated that  civics by definition  is a  study of                                                               
the  rights,  privileges,  and duties  of  citizenship  within  a                                                               
system  of  government.    He   said  Senator  Stevens  supported                                                               
maintaining the language in the bill.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:41:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCORMICK  asked why  other systems  of government                                                               
are not included.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMKIN  added that [subsection  (b), in Section 1  of Version                                                               
Y] is a short list that could  be a long list, and in [subsection                                                               
(a)] the language  was crafted to include  comparative systems of                                                               
government.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCKAY  removed his  objection  to  the motion  to                                                               
adopt Conceptual Amendment 2.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HIMSCHOOT objected.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY expounded  that he is a  no-vote because the                                                               
bill sponsor prefers to leave the section in.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HIMSCHOOT commented  that  the more  the bill  is                                                               
expanded, the  greater the  burden on schools  to make  sure that                                                               
they  are staying  within  the  exact letter  of  the  law.   She                                                               
offered her support for the removal of the language.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STORY mirrored what Mr.  Lamkin said, that on page                                                               
1, line 7, there are  comparative systems of government included,                                                               
therefore, it does not need to be "spelled out" in an amendment.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:45:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 8:45 a.m. to 8:46 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:46:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HIMSCHOOT withdrew her objection.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:47:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll call  vote was taken.  Representatives  Prax and McCormick                                                               
voted in favor  of Conceptual Amendment 2 to Version  Y of SB 29.                                                               
Representatives  Story,   McKay,  Himschoot,  and   Allard  voted                                                               
against it.   Therefore, Conceptual Amendment 2 failed  by a vote                                                               
of 2-4.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:47:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 8:47 a.m. to 8:50 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:50:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY  moved to report  HCS CSSB  29(FIN), Version                                                               
33-LS0246\Y, A. Radford/Bergerud, 4/23/24,  out of committee with                                                               
individual  recommendations and  the  accompanying fiscal  notes.                                                               
There being  no objection, HCS  CSSB 29(EDC) was reported  out of                                                               
the House Education Standing Committee.