02/04/2013 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES

        SB  27-REGULATION OF DREDGE AND FILL ACTIVITIES                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:15:11 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL called  the meeting back to order at  5:15 p.m. and                                                               
announced SB 27 to be up for consideration.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JAMES   SULLIVAN,   Legislative   Organizer,   Southeast   Alaska                                                               
Conservation  Council (SEACC),  said  he was  neutral  on SB  27,                                                               
because its  fiscal note showed approximately  12 employees being                                                               
added  to DNR  and DEC,  but they  would come  back with  another                                                               
budget  request. The  size  of  this new  division  had not  been                                                               
expressed,  so,  the  real   fiscal  implications  were  unclear.                                                               
Second,  it's  unclear  which  adjacent   wet  lands  to  certain                                                               
navigable waters will remain under  the federal program, and this                                                               
confusion makes  it impossible  for them  to understand  what the                                                               
intent  of the  administration is.  He hoped  that some  of those                                                               
questions could  be answered  in this  committee before  it moved                                                               
on.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:18:09 PM                                                                                                                    
GUY  ARCHIBALD, Coordinator,  Mining and  Clean Water,  Southeast                                                               
Alaska  Conservation Council  (SEACC),  supported Mr.  Sullivan's                                                               
testimony on SB  27. He said this is a  duplication of an already                                                               
existing  very large  permitting  operation that  the Army  Corps                                                               
runs.  He did  a quick  search and  found there  are probably  30                                                               
different Army  Corps people  who work  within Alaska.  So that's                                                               
the capacity they are talking about  here. He didn't see the need                                                               
for this bill.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He explained that  every year the Fraser Institute  does a survey                                                               
of  mining companies  seeking  to develop  around  the world.  In                                                               
2012,  they sent  out over  5,000 surveys  and got  800 back.  Of                                                               
those  800  companies that  responded,  they  represent over  $30                                                               
billion of  investment in the  mining projects around  the world.                                                               
Out of 90  separate mining districts in the  world, Alaska ranked                                                               
number 4  for both  the permitting  and resource  evaluation. So,                                                               
having  the current  system is  not a  deterrent to  any kind  of                                                               
investment  in  this  state  at  all,  according  to  the  mining                                                               
companies that  do the  investment. He just  didn't see  the need                                                               
for  the  state to  take  on  this  large  burden of  doing  this                                                               
permitting.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ARCHIBALD said  he  also  tried to  find  an instance  where                                                               
someone had successfully challenged an  Army Corps 404 permit and                                                               
couldn't find one, so apparently they do an outstanding job.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:20:30 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN   HARRINGTON,  representing   himself,  Ketchikan,   Alaska,                                                               
supported SB  27. He  had served in  various capacities  with the                                                               
borough,  school  board,  planning commission  and  assembly  and                                                               
supported  this initiative  for  several  reasons. The  Ketchikan                                                               
Gateway Borough is  roughly the size of the  State of Connecticut                                                               
and  96.5  percent   of  that  area  is  owned   by  the  federal                                                               
government. Of  the remaining 3.5  percent, the vast  majority is                                                               
owned  by  state,  municipal  governments,  Native  corporations,                                                               
Mental Health  Trust and the  University Lands; the  remainder of                                                               
.03 percent is all that is  held privately. This is the land that                                                               
supports all of  their programs tax-wise and  because they happen                                                               
to live  in a rain  forest that gets 12-14  feet of rain  a year,                                                               
it's always  wet, so  the Army  Corps has  interpreted "wetlands"                                                               
very broadly to  include all of the privately owned  lands in the                                                               
Ketchikan area. This puts an incredible  burden on them as far as                                                               
economic development;  they could  literally pave the  entire .03                                                               
percent and have  no demonstrable change in the  water quality of                                                               
their community.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:22:26 PM                                                                                                                    
TOM  WILLIAMS,  Director,  Planning  and  Community  Development,                                                               
Ketchikan,  Alaska, supported  SB  27 on  behalf  of the  Borough                                                               
Assembly.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:23:12 PM                                                                                                                    
KARA   MORIARTY,  Executive   Director,   Alaska   Oil  and   Gas                                                               
Association  (AOGA),  Anchorage,  Alaska, supported  SB  27.  She                                                               
applauded  the governor's  efforts to  streamline the  permitting                                                               
processes as  he has in the  past with the introduction  of bills                                                               
like this and SB 26  authorizing general permitting and reforming                                                               
procedures relating to  the disposal of exchange  of state lands.                                                               
They   appreciate  the   administration's  intent   to  encourage                                                               
responsible development of Alaska's  resources by simplifying the                                                               
permitting  process.  As  they  all go  through  the  process  of                                                               
assuming  primacy, they  want to  ensure being  careful that  the                                                               
assumption of  the section 404  primacy tangible  streamlines the                                                               
permitting process and does not  instead result in duplicative or                                                               
more cumbersome process, which is not the intent.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
To date, only  two states, Michigan and New  Jersey, have assumed                                                               
404 primacy  and this is in  contrast to the 45  states that have                                                               
assumed primacy of point source  discharge programs under section                                                               
402, commonly referred to as  the NPDF Programs. AOGA was allowed                                                               
to  participate in  that  process,  which did  result  in a  more                                                               
efficient  permitting process.  The state  primacy of  dredge and                                                               
fill permitting may pose  additional administrative and financial                                                               
burdens that  may be unique to  section 404, but they  won't know                                                               
what all  of those are  in detail until  the state is  allowed to                                                               
start the process.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
They  applaud  the  administration's  spoken  objective  to  also                                                               
pursue shared  general permitting  responsibility with  the Corps                                                               
in non-assumable  waters by development  of a  state programmatic                                                               
general permit. Both  are seen as good steps.  They are cognizant                                                               
that there may be concerns  with the section 404 assumption, such                                                               
as not  knowing for sure  which wet lands  and waters may  or may                                                               
not  be subject  to state  assumption, but  they know  that those                                                               
concerns will  be examined more thoroughly  by the administration                                                               
after  passage  of this  bill,  which  will  allow the  state  to                                                               
communicate with  the Environmental  Protection Agency  (EPA) and                                                               
the Corps on these issues.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORIARTY  said if the  bill is  passed, they look  forward to                                                               
working in tandem with the  administration and other stakeholders                                                               
to ensure that the section  404 assumptions will be effective for                                                               
both  the state  and the  development  community and  that it  is                                                               
achievable in Alaska without unduly burdening state resources.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GIESSEL,  finding  no   further  comments,  closed  public                                                               
testimony, and said  the bill would be held for  a hearing in the                                                               
future.