Legislature(2011 - 2012)BUTROVICH 205
02/07/2011 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB24 | |
| SB44 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 24 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 44 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 24-SPORT FISHING GUIDES: BOARD; LICENSES
3:33:40 PM
CO-CHAIR WAGONER announced the consideration of SB 24.
SENATOR MCGUIRE, speaking as sponsor of SB 24, stated that she
gets involved in contentious fishing issues because she is a
lifelong Alaskan and strong supporter of the fishing industry
and is committed to preserving the resource for both commercial
and sport fishing purposes.
3:35:10 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN joined the committee.
SENATOR MCGUIRE explained that SB 24 builds on SB 294 that she
introduced last year to extend the licensing program for sport
fishing guides into perpetuity, but the bill was amended in the
House to sunset after just one year. Therefore, SB 24 aims to
continue the program after this year. It has two components: the
licensing component to ensure the competence of licensed guides,
and the logbook component to ensure the collection of accurate
data. It is the only data that is collected by the department.
3:38:59 PM
The bill also transfers the licensing requirement from the
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) to a newly established board
in the Department of Commerce, Community and Economic
Development (DCCED). This idea is patterned after the Board of
Game and intends to bring representation to the 3,600 guides in
the state and get them more involved in the industry. They would
be the fourth largest group as an industry if SB 24 passes.
She explained that logbook data is key to managing the state's
fisheries and control of it remains in ADF&G. She also explained
that because ADF&G doesn't collect enough fees to cover the cost
of the licensing program, it is subsidized by other department
funds. The funds should be used to manage fish, not the
industry. So, in the end, SB 24 is about putting the regulation
of guides as an industry in the hands of guides, so that ADF&G
can focus on managing the resource rather than the industry. She
said there are strong views on both sides of this bill.
CO-CHAIR WAGONER said he would hold the bill and take public
testimony on a Saturday to provide maximum opportunity for
people to testify. He asked for someone to bring the bill before
the committee.
SENATOR PASKVAN moved to bring SB 24, version A, before the
committee. There were no objections.
3:42:28 PM
MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI, staff to Senator McGuire, noted that SB 24
came about as a result of a 2006-ADF&G task force that started
looking at the concept of limited entry. In the intervening
period, the existing guide licensing program was created by HB
452 in 2005 has been sunsetted and then extended on a one-year
bases for two times. The upcoming lapse in the program in the
existing guide requirements provides an opportunity to take a
look at the licensing and regulation of the industry.
As Senator McGuire pointed out and as the fiscal notes
demonstrate, he said, currently ADF&G is subsidizing the running
of this logbook and licensing program by over $200,000 annually,
because not enough fees are collected through the licensing
program to cover the cost of running and administering it.
3:44:01 PM
MR. POWLAWSKI said t has become clear in working with the
department that the logbook data is critical in managing the
state's fisheries. SB 24 keeps the logbook program in ADF&G, but
the licensing program would move to the Department of Commerce,
Community and Economic Development (DCCED) where analogous
boards use fee-supported services to support the structure. He
said the bill has errors related to the collection of fees, but
he looked forward to cleaning that up so the fiscal notes more
accurately reflect the intent. He walked the committee through
the following sectional analysis:
Section 1 states a purpose for the bill, which is to provide
stability for the sportfish industry by regulating the
activities of the sport fish guide, outfitters and
transportation services. He noted that when the guide license
was created, several business models popped up in the state that
while they provided sport fishing services to clients, might not
qualify as a guide. Under the current system those businesses
aren't required to submit logbook data. The reason the bill has
the different classifications of licenses - be it sport fishing,
guide outfitter, or transporter - those are intended to meet the
different business models that exist and get the logbook data
into ADF&G's hands so it can be used for management.
Section 2 creates the Sport Fishing Guides Services Board. This
is where the rest of the boards are listed.
Section 3 is the meat of the bill, which he said he would
address in articles.
3:46:13 PM
Article 1 on page 2, line 10, is the creation and membership of
the board. It consists of 9 members appointed by the governor
(as is the condition for most commercial services boards) with 5
members who are currently licensed sport fishing guides, a
transporter, 2 public members, and 1 member from the Board of
Fisheries. Language on page 2, lines 25-26, is fairly standard
for commercial services boards where terms are staggered and the
members do not receive compensation but are entitled to per-diem
and traveling expenses (page 2, lines 26-27).
Board Assistance is the next section and it is important to
providing the technical assistance needed to fulfill its
regulatory responsibility that the bill charges it with.
Sec.08.57.030 on page 3 addresses duties and powers of the
board. Lines 3-18 are the examination statutes creating
examinations that demonstrate first:
(A) a qualifying exam for guides and a certification exam; and
(B) relates to the unit in which one is fishing or providing
guide services for.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said paragraph (3) on page 3, lines 22-23, is a
departure from the existing statutes. Under the existing program
the ADF&G does not really have the power to impose disciplinary
actions on a guide through the licensing process. This is an
important difference in the commercial services board concept -
in that rather than having to complain to ADF&G enforcement or
the Better Business Bureau, now the public and the guides
themselves would have a disciplinary body made up of guides that
they can go to complain about actions out in the industry. Then
those complaints could either be dealt with through the
licensing provisions or forwarded on to the Department of Law
for prosecution.
On page 4, lines 6-8, the board adopts regulations that include
establishing a code of ethics for professions regulated by it.
This is another departure from the existing licensing statutes,
and it would enable the board to come up with good business
practices guidelines.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said language on page 4, lines 13-18, is
significantly controversial and will enable the Commercial
Services Board to start looking at the process of establishing,
for resource conservation purposes, the maximum number of
licensees who might operate within an existing sport fish guide
unit or in a concessionaire program to achieve the maximum
number. There is a lot of public concern over this provision,
and it is different than existing statute under ADF&G the
licensing program.
3:50:16 PM
Article 2 on page 4, line 19, through page 10, line 5, is the
licensing statutes. The first on line 27 is the sport fishing
guide-outfitter license. The requirements are fairly similar to
what exist in current statute in terms of CPR training or first
aid, residency, and holding a current fishing license. New
additions are on page 5, lines 9-12, which are the qualifying
and the certifying examinations.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said paragraph (8) relates to being licensed to
perform the services of a sport fishing assistant guide in the
state for at least 20 days within the last three years and
having received a favorable recommendation from at least one
licensed sport fishing guide outfitter. Part of the bill's
provisions is to create a new assistant guide license to
supplement the existing guide license much like the Big Game
Commercial Services Board uses Big Game Hunting Guides and Big
Game Assistant Guides who work their way up to become Master
Guides.
Page 6, line 30, through page 8, line 1, relates to the sport
fishing outfitter license. This is a little bit different than
the guide-outfitter. It is a person that may not be directly
involved on the boat helping with fishing itself, but rather
providing services helping people get out into the field and do
fishing. In that that is still a commercial endeavor, this is a
new type of license which would be required most importantly to
provide logbook data on the catch rates of people using the
service to get out and fish.
Language on page 8, line 2, is about the sport fishing assistant
guide license. This is the position that could advance to guide
with the recommendation of a master guide. These are intended
for the people who are the assistants to the outfitter who is
taking people out. They are working under language in section
(c) [page 8, lines 24-26]. This section is controversial, and
time is needed to work with industry on it, Mr. Pawlowski said.
3:54:09 PM
MR. PAWLOWSKI continued: page 9, line 9, through page 10, line
5, is the sport fishing transporter license section. This goes
beyond the outfitter and to someone who is transporting to a
permanent lodge or cabin or to a boat with permanent living
quarters, but still being a commercial relationship between a
client and the person providing the services. This would bring a
different class of guide and guide-related services into the
logbook and enforcement programs to give ADF&G data to use in
managing fisheries.
3:54:49 PM
Section 08.57.150 on page 10, lines 6-22, provides the renewal
process. Lines 23-31 [on page 10] require financial
responsibility and insurance to be carried by the licensee for
sport fishing guide-outfitters, sport fishing outfitters, and
sport fishing transporters. The assistant guides are not
included in the proof of responsibility section; the presumption
being that since they are under the employ and direct
supervision of the guide outfitter, the guide outfitter would
carry the appropriate level of insurance. This level of
insurance is what is required of guides in current statute.
3:56:02 PM
Page 11, line 6, Article 3, relates to enforcement, and that is
a new power. The board has authority to impose certain
disciplinary sanctions for:
-violations of state or federal statute or regulation relating
to sport fishing or to provisions of sport fishing guide-
outfitter, sport fishing outfitter, sport fishing assistant
guide, sport fishing assistant guide, or sport fishing
transportation services;
-failing to file records or reports required by law;
-negligently misrepresenting or omitting a material fact on an
application,
-breaching an agreement with a client;
-failing to comply with limitations or conditions of the
professional practice of the licensee;
-as well as the ability to:
-impose certain disciplinary sanctions, singly or in
combination
-permanently revoke a license or suspend a license
-censure or reprimand
-impose limitations or conditions
-impose requirements for remedial professional education
-impose probation
MR. PAWLOWSKI said a lot of these were taken from the Big Game
Commercial Services Board. Again it creates the ability to have
a separate line of enforcement in the community when people are
bad operators and to have a place for the public to complain to.
On page 12, line 2, the civil fine that can be levied under this
section cannot exceed $5,000, which is standard for a lot of
commercial service-type boards.
3:57:25 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked if the fine cap is for a single fine or a
maximum.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said he would provide an answer after he checks
with Legislative Legal.
He continued that language on page 12, line 24, relates to
unlawful acts that have been defined. When the working group was
developing the draft, this kind of language related to things
that people were concerned about happening. For example, on page
12, lines 25-27 - to intentionally obstruct or hinder, or
attempt to obstruct the lawful sport fishing engaged by a person
who is not a client of the person (on a crowded river someone
comes in and pushes someone else out of the way) - this is the
type of bad behavior the board would have the ability to deal
with. Knowingly guiding or assisting the guiding outside the
unit where the person is licensed is another type of bad
behavior on page 13, lines 9-11. He said drafting related these
provisions back to specific requirements of licenses.
SENATOR WAGONER said Charlie Swanton, Director of the Division
of Sport Fish, Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), was
on line to answer questions.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said he neglected to mention that on page 13,
lines 26-27, a person presenting themselves as a master sport
fishing guide outfitter without being one is an unlawful act. He
explained within the guide outfitter provision on page 6, lines
14-29, a special subset of the guide outfitter license is
created called a master sport fishing guide license. The
important requirements there (on page 6, lines 21-25) are having
been a sport fishing guide for 12 of the last 15 years and then
getting letters from 10 clients that would allow somebody to
advertise themselves as a master guide. This license carries no
additional powers and no additional responsibilities; it seems
to be more of an advertising concept that was put into the bill
as it came out of the task force working group. He added that
you cannot represent yourself as a master guide unless you have
actually received the master guide's license.
4:01:19 PM
Page 14 is the responsibility section. It spreads the
responsibility for violations of one of the responsibilities of
those licenses equally across the difference license classes.
Page 15, lines 26-31, addresses license examinations and fees
under the current program in the ADF&G that are fixed. This is
what has led to the revenue problem that the fiscal note
identifies and this language is a significant departure from
existing statute. It would give the Department of Commerce,
Community and Economic Development (DCCED) and the board the
responsibility for adjusting the fees based on the amount of
revenue needed for the program, so that the program itself can
become self sustaining, and so that the industry being regulated
will be paying the state for the cost of the program.
4:02:26 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if this would apply to regular sport
fish licenses.
MR. PAWLOWSKI answered no; this is particularly for guide, guide
outfitter, transporter, and assistant guide licenses - people
involved in the commercial use of fish.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI referenced the annual $1.1 million fiscal
note and asked if they assumed a gap would occur that would need
an appropriation.
MR. PAWLOWSKI answered under the DCCED enough fees have to be
collected to pay for the cost of the programs. So, on page 1 of
the fiscal note, under "revenues and funds sources," it's all
"fund code 1156 receipts supported services." There are no
general funds in this program, he stated.
SENATOR PASKVAN asked how many licenses will be issued for
calculating the amount of the fee.
MR. PAWLOWSKI replied about 3,500 licenses within the state or
about $300 per license (back of the envelope calculation).
SENATOR PASKVAN asked if there is an intent to limit the number
of licenses and would that bar some people from becoming
assistant guides.
MR. PAWLOWSKI replied that there is no intent for limited entry;
and in order to get there, a finding would have to be made by
the Commercial Services Board. But they are concerned if there
were to be a limited area, then there might be a problem with
assistant guides moving up. They are trying to work on language.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked how many people who are currently
performing this type of work will not go ahead and get the
license.
MR. PAWLOWSKI replied that he didn't have that figure, but he
would be happy to get some analysis of whether there has been a
change in the number of guides on an annual basis from the
moment the guide licensing program was initially created in
2004.
4:06:10 PM
CO-CHAIR WAGONER suggested he check the drop in sport halibut
licensees.
SENATOR STEDMAN remarked that it appears that there is no tie-in
in this bill for situations where one or more sport fish guides
are egregious in their violations while being directed by lodge
owners. How was that going to be handled?
4:07:32 PM
MR. PAWLOWSKI thanked him for that suggestion. They may have not
captured that concept; the concept being that the lodge owner
would perhaps be a sport guide outfitter, and that is in the
responsibility section that links the licenses back together so
the outfitter can be held responsible for what the assistant
guide is doing while under their employ.
He went on to explained that Article 4 on page 16 contains the
definitions. The most important definition is for "compensation"
on lines 21-29. Since licenses are linked to providing sport
fishing or sport fishing services for compensation, the
definition of this word is very important. He is currently
reviewing different suggestions for it.
Sections 4, 5, and 6 are conforming since such a substantive
change is being done to the licensing system. Section 8 on page
22, lines 4-8, addresses sunsets and repealers. Section 10 is
fairly standard language for transitional appointments when a
board (Sport Fishing Guide Board) is being created. You want to
stagger terms so that members aren't all coming up at once.
Section 11 is accepting applications; and he noted they need to
do a better job with the transition provisions to make it easier
for existing guides to transfer from the existing framework to
the proposed one in DCCED, if this were to pass. There is
concern that the transfer would provide a lot of opportunity to
deny a lot of people licenses, and that is not the sponsor's
intent.
Sections 12-14 are effective dates related to different
provisions in the bill, and are part of the transition framework
they are trying to do a better job of working on. Those dates
will change as they try to figure out how quickly the DCCED can
fulfill this mission.
4:11:47 PM
SENATOR STEVENS said he has serious reservations about the bill.
He has received many communications saying it is not needed or
wanted.
At ease from 4:12 p.m. to 4:14 p.m.
4:14:13 PM
CO-CHAIR WAGONER announced he would hold SB 24 in committee.