Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/07/1999 08:01 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE BILL NO. 8
"An Act relating to the number of toilets in women's
restrooms in certain facilities."
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 8(STA)
"An Act relating to the minimum plumbing fixtures
required for females and males in the state plumbing
code; and providing for an effective date."
Senator Donley explained SB 8 would amend the existing
plumbing code in AS 18.60.705 to more closely resemble the
national standard and increase the minimum number of
women's and men's bathroom facilities in assembly places.
He noted that SB 8 would allow women to attend large public
events in buildings constructed after January, 2000 without
enduring the line they have inevitable had to face, thus
unfairly impacting their enjoyment of the event they are
attending. Through the bill, the ratio of women's to men's
facilities would be increased, bringing fairness to the
situation.
The current statute adopts the entire most recent Uniform
Building Code, except table A-29-A, which is an older
version of the code that provides fewer plumbing facilities
for women. The bill would also amend current statute and
specifically address the number of facilities provided for
men and women in "assembly places". The current table in
statute does provide a slightly elevated number of
facilities for women in comparison to those provided for
men, but the ratio does not meet the demand. He stated
that SB 8 would amend table A-29-A currently in statute
relating to females and include Table 4.1 from the 1997
Uniform Building Code for men.
Senator Donley concluded that SB 8 would correct a
situation that has plagued women since indoor events have
been held in the State of Alaska. He believed that it
would be a step in the right direction and would give women
the opportunity to enjoy the event they are attending
rather than spending the majority of their time in line for
the bathroom.
Senator Green asked if Senator Donley would consider using
the numbers in the Uniform Building Code. Senator Donley
agreed that would be a better than the current number of
the facilities, however, pointed out that the need is even
greater. He stated that within current code, at an event
with over four hundred participants, the difference would
be that in current Uniform Building Code would provide for
twelve facilities, whereas, SB 8 would provide for sixteen.
Co-Chair Torgerson questioned Page 1, Line 6. "unless the
department adopts by regulation a later edition of the
following publication". He suggested that a "later
edition" might not include the intention of the bill.
Senator Donley responded that he had been working with the
Department on the legislation and never considered that the
Department would go "backwards". The Department does
support increasing the number of the facilities. The way
the law is written provides that type of flexibility to
either increase or decrease the number of facilities. He
reiterated that the Department is committed to increasing
the facilities.
Senator Green recommended that the Department could adopt
the Uniform Code or make the changes through statute.
Senator Donley understood that the State had adopted only a
portion of the code.
Co-Chair Torgerson asked for clarification of the exempted
assembly areas. Senator Donley said the older code
required fewer facilities. A drafting was necessary to
place the older system within the new law and still
maintain the simplicity desired by the public.
DWIGHT PERKINS, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Labor,
explained that the 1997 plumbing code Table 4.1 was
included. [Copy on File]. Last year, the Labor and
Commerce Committee changed the language by deleting table
4.1. and inserting the A-29 Code. That table is less
complex and easier to use. Any future codes being adopted
by regulation would still remain in statute and that the
Legislature would have authority to change it.
Senator Leman asked about new construction, expansion and
remodels. He inquired if the new code would apply to
increasing all facilities. Mr. Perkins responded,
providing two scenarios. If color schemes needed to be
changed, there would be no increase in the number of
restroom facilities. However, if there were a change in
the size of the assembly area, there would then have to be
an increased number of facilities. He advised that at
present, the law addresses only the new facilities.
Senator Wilken commented that the proposed bill was
different from the one presented in the State Affairs
Committee. He requested to receive testimony from an
architect regarding the increased costs.
Senator Donley commented that he had not seen any studies
regarding that concern. From personal experience and feed
back, he sensed that the addition of forty toilets to a new
arena would not "make or break" costs.
Senator Wilken pointed out that the new law would add one
hundred twenty-eight (128) toilets to a ten thousand-seat
facility. Senator Donley agreed that there were ways in
which the matter could be resolved and that those options
could be discussed later.
Senator Leman commented, checking a quick calculation, it
would cost approximately $500 thousand dollars more for the
additional toilets.
Senator Green explained that she did not understand the
need to establish a higher standard than the one
established in the current building codes. She noted that
she would not support the bill as written. She proposed an
amendment which would adopt the Uniform Building Codes.
Senator Green MOVED to adopt Table 4.1 of the Uniform
Building Code as a guideline for the number of water
closets necessary per the number by occupancy. Senator
Donley OBJECTED.
Senator Donley noted that the advantage would be lost with
this simpler approach and that the motion would
significantly reduce the number of facilities provided. He
suggested a "better" alternative would be to modify Page 2,
Line 16, to lower the standard. He believed that action
could modify having two additional water closets for each
125 females.
Senator Green pointed out that for every four hundred
women, presently, there are built eight water closets. The
bill would increase that number by six. She questioned why
Alaska was more unique than the rest of the states and
needed to have more facilities.
Senator Leman explained that he did not understand the
proposed amendment. He agreed that table 4.1 was not
necessary and that A-29A should be kept in place. Senator
Green clarified that the intent of her motion was to adopt
Table 4.1. She pointed out that Table 4.1 had already been
adopted regarding men's restroom concerns. Therefore, she
recommended that in order to make it consistent, Table 4.1
should be adopted for both men and women.
Senator Donley reiterated that he proposed reducing the
numbers on Page 2, Line 16, as the alternative.
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Leman, P. Kelly, Green, Phillips
OPPOSED: Donley, Torgerson, Parnell, Wilken, Adams
The MOTION FAILED (4-5).
Senator Donley MOVED to adopt Amendment #2. He explained
on Page 2, Line 16, delete "two" and insert "one" and
delete "125" and insert "100".
Senator Wilken recommended that the Committee seek further
help and assistance regarding the ramifications of the
bill. Senator Wilken and Senator Green OBJECTED to
Amendment #2.
Senator Wilken calculated that in a five thousand-seat
arena, eighty-two water closets would be added. He noted
that Amendment #2 would add forty-one more. That would be
a significant change.
A roll call vote was taken on the motion to adopt Amendment
IN FAVOR: Torgerson, Parnell, Donley, Leman, Adams, P.
Kelly, Phillips
OPPOSED: Wilken, Green
The MOTION PASSED (7-2).
Co-Chair Torgerson questioned if the Department could
answer technical questions of the Committee. Mr. Perkins
offered that the Department could have testimony available
at a time specified. Co-Chair Torgerson noted that the
bill would be revisited at the evening meeting.
SB 8 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.
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