Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/27/1995 03:36 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SRES - 2/27/95
HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT
CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced that since the committee did not have a
quorum, the committee would just take testimony. The committee
began taking testimony at 3:36 p.m. The chairman stated the
committee would first take testimony on HJR 27 and called the first
witness.
Number 020
JEFF LOGAN, Aide to Representative Green, prime sponsor of HJR 27,
read the sponsor statement for the resolution to the committee.
Number 040
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Logan if the policy on wetlands was a
letter from the Army Corps of Engineers, or if it was a law that
had been passed by congress.
MR. LOGAN did not know if it is a law or not.
SENATOR TAYLOR thought most of the policy on wetlands was dictated
by an Army Corps of Engineers memo.
Number 060
MR. LOGAN responded that is his understanding also. S.49, which
the committee has a copy of, was introduced by Alaska's delegation
to congress to try to clarify language from the corps. Section 3
is the amendment to the Federal Water Pollution Control Act.
Representative Green has worked with the Alaska Wetlands Coalition
and the congressional delegation's staff; this resolution is
something they requested.
Number 090
KEN FREEMAN, representing the Resource Development Council (RDC),
testifying from Anchorage, stated the RDC supports HJR 27. Mr.
Freeman believes the situation in Alaska is different from that of
the rest of the country, and that most wetlands in Alaska are still
undeveloped.
Number 140
TONY TURRINI, representing the National Wildlife Federation,
testifying from Anchorage, stated the federation is opposed to HJR
27. Mr. Turrini thinks the present Clean Water Act is adequate,
and that HJR 27 is unneccesary. Mr. Turrini has submitted written
testimony to the committee which will be copied for the members.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Turrini if he thinks the passage of HJR 27
will have a negative economic impact on tourism and other
businesses.
Number 203
MR. TURRINI thinks if wetlands are destroyed, tourism will be
negatively affected.
Number 220
JULIUS ROCKWELL, representing the Anchorage Waterways Council,
testifying from Anchorage, stated the council wants to maintain the
remaining wetlands in the Anchorage area. He thinks the existing
legislation is adequate. (Teleconference transmission is very
difficult to understand).
Number 245
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Rockwell if he would be happier with New
England if over 50% of that area had been locked up and prevented
from being developed.
MR. ROCKWELL does not think half the state should be locked up; he
wants to protect what is left in Anchorage.
Number 263
GERSHON COHEN, Executive Director, Alaska Clean Water Alliance,
testifying from Haines, does not think there is a problem with the
current process for handling development in wetlands. He has not
seen any permits turned down by the Army Corps of Engineers.
(Teleconference transmission is very bad, Mr. Cohen's testimony is
almost entirely unintelligible).
Number 280
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Cohen, if all permits are routinely
approved, why the permitting process is necessary.
MR. COHEN thinks the permitting process gives projects needed
scrutiny.
Number 295
CHAIRMAN LEMAN officially called the Senate Resources Committee to
order, since there is now a quorum. Present are Senators Frank,
Hoffman, Taylor, and the chairman.
MARGARET CLABBY, testifying from Ketchikan, stated she has read the
Federal Clean Water Act and other documents relating to wetlands.
Ms. Clabby stated she supports the Clean Water Act, and does not
think Alaska should try to get out of it.
Number 338
TROY REINHART, Employee Relations & Public Affairs Manager,
Ketchikan Pulp Corporation (KPC), testifying from Ketchikan, stated
KPC supports HJR 27 and its' goals. KPC also supports the comments
RDC gave earlier in the hearing.
Number 345
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Reinhart if he thinks there is anything in
the resolution that would cause the whole wetlands law to be thrown
out if it is passed.
MR. REINHART responded he does not think that would happen. He
thinks it would send a message to congress that Alaska is
different.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted that Senator Halford has joined the committee
meeting.
Number 359
TERRY HERMACH, Prince William Sound Conservation Alliance,
testifying from Valdez, stated he is opposed to HJR 27. Mr.
Hermach thinks Alaska should learn from the mistakes of the Lower
Forty-Eight.
Number 370
SHARON HAWKINS stated she participated in the round-table wetlands
discussion in which federal, state, and local governments also
participated. This was about a six-month long ongoing process.
Ms. Hawkins informed the committee of the function of wetlands, and
stated Alaska supports summer staging and feeding grounds for over
95% of the world's seabirds. She thinks HJR 27 should reflect the
fact that only a small percentage of Alaska's wetlands supports the
seabirds. Ms. Hawkins stated Army Corps of Engineers' review of
permits is an important tool for wetlands development, because the
corps can add its' expertise to development. Ms. Hawkins last
point is that wetlands within parklands are not necessarily
protected from development. She gave as an example placer mining
taking place in Denali National Park.
MS. HAWKINS stated that at the end of the round-table discussion in
which she participated, it was concluded that there is quite a bit
of flexibility in wetlands development. She does not see a problem
with the current system and does not think the regulations should
be ignored.
Number 435
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Ms. Hawkins what part of HJR 27 indicates to
her there would not continue to be Army Corps of Engineers' review.
MS. HAWKINS replied it is her impression that exempting Alaska from
a "no net loss policy" would mean no review by the corps. She
thinks that would mean no mitigation of private gain from public
lands would be required.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted that he and Ms. Hawkins have different
understandings of what that language would do. He does not think
the language would do what Ms. Hawkins thinks it would do.
Number 460
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins who she represented in the round-
table process and how she was named to the round-table.
MS. HAWKINS responded she was a citizen representative, and she
does not know how she was named to the round-table. She was
contacted by the Army Corps of Engineers and asked if she would
like to serve. She was representing the environmental community,
but is not sure how she was chosen.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins, if 375,000 acres of birdfeeding
and nesting areas are essential, how that land was missed after
sixty or seventy million acres have already been classified as
wilderness.
MS. HAWKINS replied that the birds require a coastal estuarian
setting. There is very little of that type of habitat. The large
amount of acreage to which Senator Taylor is referring may be
wetlands, but it may not have any feeding area.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins if it would be okay with her to
take 375,000 acres out of wilderness classification and add the
375,000 acres necessary for bird nesting and feeding.
MS. HAWKINS responded that land classified as wilderness does not
preclude development.
Number 490
MOLLY SHERMAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated the lobby is
opposed to HJR 27. She read a written statement which was also
submitted to the committee.
Number 508
SENATOR HALFORD asked Ms. Sherman in what communities wetlands had
been destroyed, adversely affecting wildlife, fishing, and hunting.
MS. SHERMAN responded that an earlier participant in the hearing,
representing the Anchorage Waterways Council, mentioned that
Anchorage's wetlands have been greatly affected by development,
including the Potter Marsh flats.
SENATOR HALFORD stated that Potter Marsh is full of waterfowl, is
protected, and was created by the building of the road: it is the
impoundment.
Number 524
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if any of the witnesses who testified in
opposition to HJR 27 ever applied for a corps permit.
MS. SHERMAN replied she can check with members of the Alaska
Environmental Lobby. She has worked in industry, and it is
possible that companies she has worked for have applied for
permits.
SENATOR TAYLOR commented it is possible that there is a great
difference in life experiences between those people who have
applied for a permit and those who have not.
Number 545
MALCOLM FORD, testifying from Anchorage, compared the environment
in Alaska with the environment in England. (The teleconference
transmission is very bad, and Mr. Ford's testimony is
unintelligible for the most part).
Number 568
MARTHA LEVENSALER, testifying from Anchorage, does not agree that
since so much of Alaska's land is locked up, it does not need to be
protected. Public land is still open to development.
TAPE 95-16, SIDE B
Number 580
MARTHA LEVENSALER stated the permitting process is important, even
though most plans are approved, because the process frequently
changes development plans to help protect resources.
Number 565
JULIUS ROCKWELL, of the Anchorage Waterways Council, testifying
from Anchorage added that members of the council have acquired
permits.
Number 550
SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to discharge HJR 27 from the Senate
Resources Committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, discharged HJR 27 from
committee with individual recommendations.
SRES - 2/28/95
HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HJR 27 under reconsideration. The
chairman called the first witness to testify.
Number 256
MATT KINNEY, testifying from Valdez, stated he supports HJR 27, but
suggested amending the bill. On page 2, line 23, add the term,
"feasible and prudent." He also thinks the definition of
"wetlands" is too broad and should be further defined. Mr. Kinney
asked Senator Taylor if he has ever applied for an Army Corps of
Engineers' permit.
Number 185
SENATOR TAYLOR responded he has applied for a permit.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced the committee will set aside HJR 27 until
a quorum is reestablished.
SRES - 2/27/95
HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HJR 27 once again and called the next
witness.
Number 184
JEFF WRALEY, testifying from Homer, is opposed to the idea we
should be allowed to repeat the mistakes of the Lower Forty-Eight,
simply because we have much of our wetlands undeveloped.
Number 216
ED BAILEY, testifying from Homer, gives testimony unfavorable to
HJR 27. Alaska is unique because most of its' wetlands have not
been developed. We should learn from what has happened elsewhere.
Number 246
SENATOR HALFORD made a motion to discharge HJR 27 from the Senate
Resources Committee with individual recommendations under
reconsideration.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN hearing no objection, discharged HJR 27 from
committee.
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