Legislature(2015 - 2016)BARNES 124
04/10/2015 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB38 | |
| HJR20 | |
| HJR24 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 38 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 179 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HJR 20 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HJR 24 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HJR 20-FISH & WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT BY STATES
1:41:29 PM
VICE CHAIR HAWKER announced that the next order of business is
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 20, Urging the United States Congress
to enact legislation to clarify and recognize each individual
state's authority to manage the fish and wildlife within its
borders.
1:41:51 PM
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN, sponsor, introduced HJR 20, saying it
encourages Congress to pass legislation that would clarify each
individual state's authority to manage the fish and game
resources within its boundary. Alaska has a history of
successfully managing its fish and game resources and their
habitats. Alaska has even restored the depleted fishery stocks
that were received from the federal government at the time of
statehood. Alaska has used its resources wisely calling on the
different experiences of its people, from using professional
scientists to the wisdom of Native elders to manage fish and
game resources and the lands they inhabit. Doing so maintains
yields for the benefit of the state's people, which is a
requirement of the state's constitution. However, intrusions by
the federal government have increased on a number of fronts,
challenging Alaska's sovereign authority and responsibility to
manage its fish and game resources. Those actions may forever
impact the state's ability to determine both its sovereignty and
management of resources as promised in the statehood compact and
in the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA).
The resolution urges Congress to enact legislation reserving the
authority to enforce state fish and wildlife laws and manage
fish and wildlife on public land to the individual states in
which the land is found.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN added that the resolution grew out of
discussions amongst [legislators]. For example, Representative
Johnson is an active member of the National Assembly of
Sportsmen's Caucuses, an organization of 42 states and over
2,500 legislators. Its main mission is to ensure continued
protection of the outdoor heritage of hunting, fishing, and
trapping, and the ability to manage that. There has been
discussion on how important it is for the states to manage their
own resources. He said he would like to use this model
legislation to bring back to the National Assembly of
Sportsmen's Caucuses in hopes of getting 30 plus states in order
to show Congress that locals know what is best for their states.
1:45:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON drew attention to the clause on page 2,
lines 7-8, and asked where the National Park Service has
restricted access of state employees to state land and water.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN replied he believes this is happening more
recently on the Kenai Peninsula for hunting and fishing and
intensive management for brown bears. It is also happening with
the Unimak Island caribou herd. The island is half federal land
and half state land. The people of Cold Bay depend on those
caribou for survival, but there are also wolves on that island
and it has gotten to the point where the state wants to do some
intensive management to reduce the number of wolves. The whole
herd is close to being lost and the people of Unimak will not
have that valuable resource to feed their families.
VICE CHAIR HAWKER recalled the case where the National Park
Service overstepped its bounds on the Yukon-Charley Rivers
National Preserve. Armed National Park Service officers
literally commandeered Alaska citizens who were utilizing their
right to progress over state navigable waters.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN added that that was probably one of the
most highlighted issues within the state when it happened.
1:47:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TARR noted that for fisheries there is the
federal Magnuson-Stevens Act and the councils that have been set
up through the Act. She inquired whether there is an existing
federal wildlife law that is similar to the Magnuson-Stevens Act
that would be amended if Congress were to take action as urged
by HJR 20.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN drew attention to a paper in the committee
packet entitled, "Wildlife Management Authority: The State
Agencies' Perspective," written by the Association of Fish &
Wildlife Agencies. He noted that the fourth paragraph on page 2
talks about how the directors have identified that the National
Environmental Policy Act of 1969 (NEPA) is a hindrance. The
paper discusses the relationship between the federal government,
not specific laws, and the ability for the states and the
federal government to sit down and talk out these issues. It is
not so much that federal laws are bad laws but rather the
ability to work with the federal government in the management of
those laws in regard to fish and wildlife management and
resource development at the same.
REPRESENTATIVE TARR brought attention to page 1, lines 4-6, of
the resolution and offered her understanding that the North
American Model of Wildlife Conservation is not something that is
in federal statute.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN answered that the North America Model of
Wildlife Conservation was adopted about 78 years ago and is what
is now known as the Pittman-Robertson Act. The purchasers of
outdoor sporting goods - hunters and fishermen - provide the
funding for [state] fish and wildlife departments.
VICE CHAIR HAWKER added it is a federal excise tax of 11 percent
on all sporting goods, ammunition, and archery supplies.
1:50:51 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said he supports HJR 20 and asked whether
the sponsor would be amenable to adding additional names to the
resolution's distribution list. For example, the National
Assembly of Sportsmen's Caucuses could be added to the list as
well as The Council of State Governments West. He posited that
an official document coming from the state would be better than
him handing out a copy of the resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN agreed, further suggesting that the
National Conference of State Legislators would be another
organization that could be added.
1:52:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TARR understood that the Upper Cook Inlet Drift
Association (UCIDA) was about fishing in the Kenai National
Wildlife Refuge and about where federal management ended and
state management began. She further understood that the lawsuit
asserted it is the state's right to manage for anadromous fish.
She inquired whether that is an example of what the sponsor is
hoping will come out of the resolution - that in situations like
this the default would be that the state manages the resource.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN offered his belief that the UCIDA lawsuit
is asking for federal oversight. Currently there is shared
management within Cook Inlet with the three-mile boundary that
the state has and Cook Inlet is wider than six miles at points
and so the federal government has said the state has the right
to manage that on both sides. He said he therefore thinks that
lawsuit is a separate issue. However, earlier this year a
federal action was taken in regard to nets on the Kenai and
perhaps, he suggested, this is what Representative Tarr is
referring to. Nets catch everything and could have a very
detrimental effect on the world class fisheries there, as well
as the non-targeted species in the river. State managers are
there to closely watch that every day and their ability to
manage that fishery is much better than federal managers.
Responding further to Representative Tarr, he said this is a
very good example of something that has happened recently.
1:55:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON inquired whether the U.S. Fish and
Wildlife Service is a supporter of, or signer on, the North
American Model of Wildlife Conservation or whether the service
considers that foreign to its mission.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN offered his belief that the federal
government is very supportive of the North American Model of
Wildlife Conservation; it was federal law that enacted it.
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON concluded that what is being said between
the lines of the resolution is that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service is not following the North American Model of Wildlife
Conservation.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN answered he suspects that in essence the
North American Model of Wildlife Conservation has to do with the
federal excise tax and passing that over to the states. He
reported that last year there were conversations between the
federal government and the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
that the federal government may take over the funds that now go
to states through Pittman-Robertson and Dingell-Johnson to fund
fish and wildlife agencies at the federal level as opposed to
bringing those funds over to the states. That, he added, would
be opposing the objective of that model.
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON remarked that Congress has a difficult
time passing and enforcing laws and so bureaucrats make their
own rules.
1:57:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON offered his hope that federal subsistence
management not be mixed into this, saying that is what is being
done when talking about the nets on the Kenai River, which was
the federal subsistence board. Mixing this with subsistence
would divide Alaskans rather than unite them, he warned.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN replied that in no way does HJR 20 have
any implications to subsistence within Alaska. Rather, it helps
clarify the discussions and allow the state's wildlife
biologists, citizens, and Native leaders to assist by having
those discussions before decisions are made on the management of
fish and wildlife, whether it is federal or state management.
VICE CHAIR HAWKER thanked Representative Neuman for making this
clear on the record.
REPRESENTATIVE OLSON said the resolution has a nice title.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN thanked Representative Olson.
2:00:01 PM
VICE CHAIR HAWKER opened public testimony on HJR 20, then closed
it after ascertaining that no one wished to testify.
2:01:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 1 to
add on page 3, line 9: the National Assembly of Sportsmen's
Caucuses, The Council of State Governments, The Council of State
Governments West, and the National [Conference] of State
[Legislatures].
VICE CHAIR HAWKER objected for discussion purposes and inquired
whether the conceptual amendment applies to the appropriate
division or committee of those entities.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON responded he thinks that if the
resolution is sent to the organizations it will get to the
appropriate place within each entity.
VICE CHAIR HAWKER noted that these additional entities would be
added under the section of the resolution pertaining to whom
copies of the resolution shall be sent.
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN thanked Representative Johnson for the
conceptual amendment, saying it would be sent to the presiding
officers of the entities, of which Representative Johnson is
one.
2:02:45 PM
VICE CHAIR HAWKER removed his objection. There being no further
objection, Conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted.
2:03:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON stated he doesn't believe he has ever
seen a resolution he disagrees with more and he believes there
are hundreds of thousands of Alaskans who would also disagree
with it if it was put before them. He said he couldn't be more
pleased that the federal lands in Alaska are managed by federal
officials who are managing the land the way they are supposed to
for protecting subsistence rights, protecting non-consumptive
rights, and protecting the mission of the federal law. He said
he has spent a lot of time studying, writing, and testifying on
this issue. The idea that the state gets to manage all of it is
wrong and has to be wrong because everyone knows that within the
national parks, not the preserves, he has seen people stopped
from removing a bone off the road, which is consistent with the
fact that everyone knows hunting is not allowed in a national
park. It is the federal government that says that. The idea
that there is a universal rule that in all parts of the state
the state alone manages wildlife is incorrect factually and
legally. Then the question becomes, Where can the state manage?
He said he has spoken before the visitor industry and he thinks
that, quietly, the visitor industry shares his concern about
Alaska's practices. This came up in the committee's
confirmation hearing with Ms. Sager Albaugh who basically said
if a person wants to walk a dog on a trail on the Kenai
Peninsula it is that person's problem if he/she wants to walk
the dog off leash. In other words, Ms. Sager Albaugh's view as
a Board of Game member is that the Board will control everything
adjacent to that trail and phooey on the dog walker; that is the
policy of the State of Alaska. He said he could sit back and
say, "Geez, I can't stop this." But when these times happen he
thinks he is morally obligated to say "wait a minute" even
though it shines a light on him that he doesn't want, although
it may be better than an artificial light in a den. He
maintained that the be-it-resolved clause that says the state is
supposed to control federal land and federal reserve waters is
wrong; that was the Katie John decision where the court said the
state could lose that if the state doesn't do it properly. The
resolution maligns natural diversity, he said, but the state's
viewing industry wants natural diversity and it's a $2 billion a
year industry. Tourists don't want to take a yellow bus 80
miles to Wonder Lake and watch things getting blasted away.
Fundamentally, he asks whether this can be explained to
elementary kids and tourists. The answer is no. Regarding the
whereas clause on page 1 about the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge, he said he testified in that hearing and the federal
biologist proved, and the state biologist Mr. Vincent Lang could
not contend with those arguments, that the brown bears on the
Kenai Peninsula are threatened. The idea that that is
conservation based, that the state's threatening them when the
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service says it is unsustainable and
isn't going to allow any more hunting on federal land, the land
of the American people ... The idea that there is increasing
inconsistency - of course there is because they are different
conservation system units with different rules depending on
whether it is the Bureau of Land Management or the National Park
Service. Regarding the Unimak caribou herd, he pointed out that
that intensive game management was supported by him and groups
he worked with and it went forward to stop the demise of that
herd, which was years ago and therefore not a recent phenomenon.
So he looks at some of this and asks, "Wow, are we going to use
this kind of management in Yellowstone?" Regarding the hot
button subject about the armed officers, he said he doesn't know
what happened there but guesses someone does. [The U.S.] is a
very armed society, he said, and he would expect federal
officers to occasionally carry a sidearm because they are at
great risk if they don't. The state is out of compliance with
ANILCA, which is federal law. It is the Indian Commerce Clause,
it is [the nation's] founding fathers, 1789, which way pre-dates
the Alaska Statehood Act. Testimony was heard last year in this
committee about how the big game concessions on federal land
work better than the state's system. Big game guide hunters
testified that the federal system was a better system. He said
he understands where HJR 20 is coming from, but couldn't
disagree more with it.
2:09:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to report HJR 20, as amended, out
of committee with individual recommendations and accompanying
zero fiscal note. There being no objection, CSHJR 20(RES) was
reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.