Legislature(2019 - 2020)GRUENBERG 120
01/28/2020 03:00 PM House STATE AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR15 | |
| HB187 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HJR 15 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 187 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HJR 15-CONST. AM: VOTES NEEDED FOR VETO OVERRIDE
3:02:01 PM
CO-CHAIR FIELDS announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 15, Proposing an amendment to the
Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to actions upon
veto.
3:02:24 PM
CO-CHAIR KREISS-TOMKINS, as prime sponsor of HJR 15, offered to
answer any questions from the committee.
3:02:55 PM
CO-CHAIR FIELDS, after ascertaining that there were no questions
for Representative Kreiss-Tomkins, opened public and invited
testimony on HJR 15.
3:03:03 PM
MICHAEL BRADNER, as the former Speaker of the House, relayed
that he interacted and served with many of the state's
constitutional founders. He expressed his belief that few of
them would have ever imagined that the veto could be used in the
manner it has been - reaching back in time and eliminating
entire programs. Generally, over the years, the veto has been
exercised to deal with issues in the current legislature and
only occasionally reaching back in time. He opined that Alaska
has a constitutional crisis that reaches beyond this legislature
and is bipartisan in nature; what this governor [Governor
Michael J. Dunleavy] could do, any governor could do; and it
could lead to problems in the future. The flavor of politics
changes; the governor could veto, for example, Alaska's oil tax
credits. As time changes, the spending for social programs and
for development changes. He offered that the future is unknown;
Alaska will be under a great deal of pressure with climate
change and other issues.
MR. BRADNER suggested that his concern is not just about the
three-fourths vote, but the three-fourths vote burdened by very
small legislative bodies. He said, "It requires only securing
16 votes to override." He maintained, "If you can't secure the
votes for an override, you ought not to be governor, because
you're no politician." He referred to the campaign contribution
limit that went to the U.S. Supreme Court and was sent back to
the appeals court; Justice [Ruth Bader] Ginsburg attached a
statement citing small legislative bodies and the possibility of
corruption given a narrow voter base. He said this should be a
concern for Alaska. It is not just the three-fourths vote but
the three-fourths vote in Alaska's small legislative bodies and
the regional spread of Alaska's legislative bodies. It is very
easy to intimidate different regions and put legislators in
difficult situations while exercising their prerogatives to
override.
MR. BRADNER stressed that the legislature is the "people's
branch." He referred to an expression in legal literature -
"tyrannical aggrandizement of power by one branch over another."
He stated that the founders of the U.S. Constitution used that
term when trying to convince the various colonial assemblies
that separation of powers protects them from their president
being a substitute for the tyrant they had overthrown. He
offered that although [in his writing as a journalist] he has
referred to the governor as a tyrant in the context he just
mentioned, he, himself, shares that title: In the mid-'70s, he
was Speaker of the House and the legislature was young. The
legislators questioned many of the lines of authority between
the legislature and the governor - one being the extent of
confirmation power. The legislature passed a statute, then sued
the governor. [Then] Justice [Jay] Rabinowitz informed the
legislature that the legislature may not encroach "one inch" and
used the term "tyrant" in his opinion.
MR. BRADNER expressed that Alaska must consider the invasion of
the prerogatives of the legislature. He opined that the
governor, being a new governor, was influenced by certain people
to act as he did; it appears he is now trying to moderate that
intensity. He expressed his hope that HJR 15 would be a
bipartisan resolution; it reaches far beyond the acute
partisanship that Alaska faces; it involves both parties and
many issues for both parties over time. He relayed that Alaska
is facing some issues in the next decade which will require
unity.
3:10:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE stated that she is looking for good
governance, and any changes to the Alaska State Constitution
needs to work for the next 50, 100, 200 years; the constitution
is the state's guidebook. She expressed her belief that Mr.
Bradner spoke to the politics, and she is looking for good
governance. She relayed the following:
While you speak to the tyranny and certain positions
on one side of this issue and this particular
governor, there is another side. And if we're
supposed to work together for the good policy, doesn't
that come through better communication, rather than
lowering the voting threshold, because that would be
by a lower majority guiding the conversation? So, I'm
asking you, what do you feel is good governance,
without looking at this current political climate?
MR. BRADNER opined that this political climate only demonstrates
the difficulty in governance. He expressed the following:
Your prerogatives have been invaded by the governor.
We can argue about that and have differences of
opinion about that, but ... most states have a two-
thirds override. And I think the original intent of
separation of powers was that the executive branch
could not intimidate the legislative branch. And I
think a three-quarters vote, with our regionalism and
so on - absent whether it's today's politics or
tomorrow's politics - really is invasive of ... the
legislature's ability to legislate. And you're the
people's body politic - and it's messy at times. I've
often called the legislature sort of the 'garbage can'
because that's where the public brings their issues,
and you fight it out, and the public sometimes gets
frustrated because you're really not one legislature,
you're two. You're a House; you're a Senate; you're
many committees. ... The public hears this kind of
commotion and ... the legislature gets criticism
perhaps it isn't due. I absolutely think that good
governance requires that the legislature have
reasonable opportunity to override a governor's veto.
In this case, I think it's almost impossible.
3:13:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SHAW referred to the comment about intimidation
from the governor. He asked, "If we lower the standards, don't
we have a majority that intimidates the minority?"
MR. BRADNER replied that [the two-thirds veto override vote
threshold] is the standard in most states. The executive branch
oversees administrating the statutes and is not entitled - in
any fashion - to intimidate the legislative process. He said
that the legislative process belongs to the legislature; it is
through that process the legislature responds to the public. He
answered, "No ... I think ... we're sort of at a point here
where we've got to make some decisions."
3:14:00 PM
MIKE COONS testified that 36 states require a two-thirds vote to
override a veto; 7 states require three-fifths; 6 require a
simple majority; and Alaska requires three-fourths. He said
that 22 states, as of November 2018, have veto-proof majorities.
He continued with the following testimony:
Yes, Alaska is the only one with three-quarters vote,
and I'm glad our founding fathers, in writing the
state constitution, did so. Obviously, the founding
fathers did not look upon the governor as a tyrant or
call the Office of the Governor an office of a tyrant;
it is an insult to our republic. Remember, we are a
republic, not a democracy. What this boils down to in
my opinion - this is nothing more than an attempt to
make it easier to override a strong governor who is
keeping spending or attempting to keep spending under
control. These last attempts at overriding Governor
Dunleavy's line-item vetoes were a failure. Even this
last attempt would have failed by one vote if two
legislators were ... and if two legislators were
there, it would have failed by three. The person that
is testifying for this is making this about this
governor by a bill that would impact decades - if not
longer - of other governors. The governor has
constitutional amendments that this committee has
refused to bring forward that would have far better
impact on the people of Alaska. I call on
Representative Kreiss-Tomkins to bring forward those
bills and stop trying to undo what was and is the best
way to stop overspending.
3:16:22 PM
ADAM HYKES offered the following testimony:
I voted for the governor in the past election, and
it's really hard to see this as a way to not cover for
the attempt last session to override his vetoes when
there weren't enough legislators present at an
unauthorized special session in Juneau when the
governor had clearly called the [legislature]
constitutionally within his powers to the Valley up
here in the Interior. It's hard not to view this any
other way, especially since the [legislature] has
consistently fought against the governor. I see this
resolution as a dangerous advance towards muddying the
waters as far as separation of powers go in our state.
[Public testimony was treated as closed.]
3:17:41 PM
CO-CHAIR FIELDS moved to report HJR 15 out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal
note.
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE objected.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Thompson, Hopkins,
Story, Fields, and Kreiss-Tomkins voted in favor of reporting
HJR 15 out of committee. Representatives Vance and Shaw voted
against it. Therefore, HJR 15 was reported from the House State
Affairs Standing Committee by a vote of 5-2.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HJR015 DRAFT Fiscal Note OG-DOE-1-17-20.pdf |
HSTA 1/28/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HJR 15 |
| HB187 DRAFT Fiscal Note DOC-IDO-1-17-2020.pdf |
HSTA 1/28/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Public Testimony 1.28.20.pdf |
HSTA 1/28/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Amendment #1.pdf |
HSTA 1/28/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Supporting Doucment - Committee Testimony 1.28.20.pdf |
HSTA 1/28/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Letter of Support - Public Testimony 1.23.20.pdf |
HSTA 1/28/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HB 187 Letter of Support - Public Testimony 1.27.20.20 |
HSTA 1/28/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HB 187 |
| HJR 15 Letter of Support - Testimony 1.30.20.pdf |
HSTA 1/28/2020 3:00:00 PM |
HJR 15 |