Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124
04/13/2017 05:00 PM House RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR9 | |
| HB211 | |
| HB177 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 197 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 211 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 217 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 218 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| + | HJR 9 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 177 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HJR 9-CANADIAN MINES ON TRANSBOUNDARY RIVERS
5:03:21 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON announced that the first order of business
would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 9, Urging the United States
government to continue to work with the government of Canada to
investigate the long-term, region-wide downstream effects of
proposed and existing industrial development and to develop
measures to ensure that state resources are not harmed by
upstream development in British Columbia. [Before the committee
was CSHJR 9(FSH), Version J].
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON said invited testimony on HJR 9 was heard
4/12/17, and opened public testimony.
5:03:49 PM
JODE SPARKS, spokesperson, Alaska Youth for Environmental Action
(AYEA), informed the committee his organization is a group of
diverse, politically-minded teenagers from across Alaska. He
expressed support for HJR 9 because of his support for
sustainable salmon. Other students in his biology class in
Soldotna, and their teacher, also support the resolution. Mr.
Sparks said the bill would have no impact on Alaska industry,
but would help save Alaska salmon. Although Southeast Alaska is
distant from the Kenai Peninsula, the two areas share cultural
and economic dependence on salmon, and residents fish and work
in commercial fishing. Fishing provides employment for over
10,000 workers in Southcentral Alaska and enhances tourism. The
bill would benefit mostly salmon in Southeast, but all Alaskans
support salmon and seek healthy salmon. Alaskans also want the
state to have a say in its industries, and HJR 9 would provide
Alaskans influence over mines that affect Alaska waters.
Representing AYEA, students, salmon-lovers, and young Alaskans,
Mr. Sparks urged the legislature to pass HJR 9.
5:05:39 PM
TONY GALLEGOF, director, Cultural and Natural Resources,
Ketchikan Indian Community (KIC), summarized from a resolution
passed by KIC in support of HJR 9 as follows:
1. The Province of British Columbia (B.C.), Canada,
says its mines can be developed responsibly but
reports found this is not the case
2. KIC is concerned about the long-term health of
fishes and rivers, and seeks enforceable measures to
protect resources in the future
3. Binding, enforceable measures are needed to
address Alaskans' concerns about transboundary mining
activity
4. The [Statement of Cooperation on the Protection of
Transboundary Waters (SOC) does not guarantee or
ensure monitoring and does not provide funding
5. Monitoring without funding is not enough
6. Long-term cumulative impacts from existing and
future mining projects in B.C. affect Alaska's natural
resources
7. HJR 9 is proactive
8. B.C.'s current processes do not provide a
mechanism or funds to ensure proper cleanup and
compensation
9. Concerns are being dismissed
11. The federal Boundary Waters Treaty (BWT) should
be honored
10. B.C. needs to implement a robust monitoring to
ensure protection of waters in perpetuity
Therefore, the Ketchikan Indian Community resolves
that the KIC Tribal Council urge the U.S. government
to work with Canada to investigate long-term
downstream effects of existing and proposed industrial
development in B.C. and develop measures to protect
the state's resources.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH asked how many are represented by KIC.
MR. GALLEGOF said KIC is the second largest Tribe in the state
and represents over 6,000 members.
5:10:03 PM
FREDERICK OLSEN JR, chairman, United Tribal Transboundary Mining
Work Group, and Tribal vice president, Organized Village of
Kasaan, said the Organized Village of Kasaan (Kasaan) passed a
resolution in support of HJR 9, as Kasaan has a close and
personal relationship to its region and the land. Mr. Olsen
recalled previous testimony heard last year created HJR 9, and
he restated Kasaan's support. The resolution could be stronger,
and could stress the U.S. government's fiduciary trust
responsibility in government-to-government relationships that do
not recognize Tribes; on behalf of Alaska Native Tribal
citizens, he called on the U.S. to enforce the formation of the
International Joint Commission under the Boundary Waters Treaty
(BWT) of 1909. Mr. Olsen noted BWT articles address harm and
potential harm; however, the Tulsequah Chief mine is polluting
the Taku River watershed, the Brucejack mine may be affecting
the Unuk River, and the Red Chris mine is threatening the
Stikine River. Mr. Olsen pointed out it is time to implement
BWT on the Alaska/Canada border. Referring to testimony on
4/12/17 from misleading witnesses, he clarified that a treaty
between two countries with federal governments requires federal
enforcement, but that is not federal overreach. Mr. Olsen
suggested greed leads to selling out the health of thousands of
Alaskans. He concluded that the loss of a way of life on this
side of the border should not merely be a cost of doing
business.
5:15:50 PM
BRIAN LYNCH, spokesperson, Rivers Without Borders, stated his
support for HJR 9. He said he is a retired Alaska Department of
Fish & Game (ADFG) commercial fisheries management biologist
with 30 years' experience in Southeast Alaska, and is now
working part-time for Rivers Without Borders. He said the issue
addressed by HJR 9 is not about the management of Alaska's
resources, but is one of ensuring that activities on the other
side of the international border do not harm Alaska's resources
and industries. Furthermore, "HJR 9 has nothing to do with the
Alaska mining industry or how we manage our resources," he said.
Federal involvement would complement the SOC and, although the
Alaska congressional delegation has strongly opposed federal
overreach on other issues, Alaska's senators and congressman
support federal intervention in this issue. Mr. Lynch recalled
testimony during previous hearings expressing greater concern
for the B.C. and Canadian mining industry, than for the Alaska
seafood industry and thousands of existing jobs. In fact, the
economic lifeblood of Petersburg is the seafood industry, and
mine contamination from any of the transboundary watersheds
would have significant and devastating impacts on Petersburg,
all Southeast Alaska, and beyond. Mr. Lynch pointed out river
estuaries support crab and halibut fisheries which, if
contaminated by toxic materials from a mine disaster, would be
difficult or impossible to clean up as demonstrated following
the 2015 Samarco mine disaster in Brazil. He described how
fisheries in the Gulf of Alaska and Bering Sea could be impacted
if any transboundary king salmon stocks are listed under the
Endangered Species Act (ESA) as a result of a mining disaster.
Mr. Lynch urged the committee to remember that the financial
impacts of a mine disaster could be very extensive, which
explains why enforceable financial assurances, backed by federal
involvement, are absolutely necessary.
5:19:23 PM
KAREN MATTHIAS, executive director, Council of Alaska Producers
(CAP), informed the committee CAP is a statewide business
association representing large metal mines and some advanced
projects in Alaska; CAP promotes economic opportunity and
environmentally sound mining practices. Ms. Matthias said she
also represents CAP on the [State of Alaska Transboundary
Working Group]. Recognizing the need to protect and enhance the
shared environment, CAP supports dialogue between Alaska and
B.C. on development in B.C. along rivers flowing from B.C. to
Alaska. The state has sought to deepen the existing levels of
communication and cooperation between Alaska and B.C. through
outreach to stakeholder groups, which has resulted in a
Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) and SOC, which she
characterized as "the starting point for greater collaboration
between the province and the state, in fact, the technical work
has already begun." Ms. Matthias encouraged the committee to
request an update from the Department of Environmental
Conservation (DEC), the Department of Natural Resources (DNR),
and ADFG on this subject, and to obtain comparisons of B.C. and
Alaska [mine] permitting. She stated CAP is not opposed to
federal involvement, but questioned whether federal involvement
would provide timely or meaningful results, and urged for the
committee to amend the resolution to recognize the value of the
SOC, the work of the technical group, and the efforts of
Lieutenant Governor Mallott to ensure Alaska state regulators
have meaningful access to and influence on the regulatory
process in B.C.
5:21:38 PM
GRAHAM NEALE said he is a miner, an educator, and a volunteer
who has been involved in resources in Alaska and B.C. for 20
years. As a Canadian, he lives in Southeast Alaska, works in a
dynamic industry, and enjoys fishing. He stressed that Canada
is generally respected worldwide as a responsible nation;
regarding this issue, there exists a working relationship, an
open dialogue, and an MOU and SOC between B.C. and Alaska which
were culminated in two years. Furthermore, the Minister of
Energy and Mines, B.C., Bill Bennett, and some proponents of
projects in B.C., have studied modifications and have stated
that they care what Alaskans think even though they don't have
to. Mr. Neale said members of his family were affected by [the
tailings dam failure at] Mount Polley, which caused concern and
disgust, however, the response to the event was a stop to work,
an investigation, repercussions, and a commitment "to be better,
which you can't ask much more from, from your neighboring
country." From an historical perspective, he opined the
aforementioned response was an improvement over past patterns of
mining that were accepted - on both sides of the border - one
hundred years ago. Mr. Neale said his most important point is
that as a father who hopes to fish with his son, he would not
work in an industry or a jurisdiction that would put his values
at risk." In response to Representative Birch, he said he would
submit his written testimony to the committee.
5:24:20 PMs
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH observed most of the miners working at two
of the five biggest mines in Alaska live in his district, and
they work hard for environmental protection. However, he said
he is troubled by some of the egregious mistakes made in Canada,
such as at the Tulsequah Chief and Mount Polley mines, when
compared to practices at Kensington and Greens Creek mines. He
directed attention to [a document in the committee packet
entitled, "Auditor General's Comments," and dated May 2016].
Representative Parish asked what is being done to strengthen the
committee's level of confidence [in Canada's policies].
MR. NEALE said he cannot testify on behalf of a nation or a
province; however, early mining practices left legacy concerns
from activities that occurred while the industry provided modern
conveniences, and before environmental regulations were
established. What was learned from Mount Polley is that there
are repercussions and a commitment to improve. In response to
Co-Chair Tarr, he said he is in favor of the diplomatic policies
that are currently in place between Alaska and B.C., and is
neutral on HJR 9.
5:27:10 PM
LAURA STATS said she is representing herself, her family, and
extended family members who work in the commercial fishing
industry in Southeast Alaska. She opined an Alaskan need not be
a fisherman to understand the bounty of salmon, and the marine
ecosystem. Residents of Alaska witness returning salmon, seals,
sea lions, whales, and other marine life, and in Southeast,
residents witness rare sights. A generation ago, Lynn Canal and
Chatham Strait were filled with herring, and herring roe was
harvested - but no longer. She stressed the importance of
stewardship of Alaska's rare and abundant environment, and urged
the committee to vote in favor of HJR 9. Due to budget
deficits, Alaska is at a crossroad, and it is in Alaskans' best
interest to protect the environment and thereby encourage the
robust continuation of salmon stocks and the economy.
5:29:29 PM
GUY ARCHIBALD, Coordinator, Mining and Clean Water, Southeast
Alaska Conservation Council (SEACC), said he is an environmental
chemist and microbiologist with 20 years of experience. He
referred to a 2016 report by Bowker and Chambers [document not
provided] and said the report shows that "these very types of
modern mines, due to exploiting very low-grade ores and having
to go at an economy of scale, actually fail at a higher rate and
more catastrophically than smaller, older legacy mines."
Further, BC Hydro and Power Authority (BC Hydro), which was
built to power certain mines, is $18 billion in debt, and he
posited the Province of B.C. is "betting the bank on these mines
being developed and, and going into production." Referring to
expert testimony and [a document in the committee packet
entitled, "Auditor General's Comments," and dated May 2016], Mr.
Archibald opined B.C. was to move away from watered tailings
facilities, but six months after the Mount Polley [tailings dam]
disaster, B.C. permitted the Red Chris [mine] tailings facility,
which is a watered tailings facility, and the Brucejack [gold
mine project] that will store tailings underwater. Other
proposed mines, including the Kerr-Sulpherets-Mitchell (KSM),
Schaft Creek, and Galore Creek mines, have not changed their
plans of operation to move away from watered tailings
facilities. Mr. Archibald acknowledged B.C. has modified some
of its practices as follows: formed a nonbinding review board
to review tailings designs; now requires mines to submit a
management plan; now requires mines to give an annual report;
created a web site. He closed, expressing concern about the
idea that federal involvement might be too little/too late, and
pointed out that the KSM mine, proposed to mine the largest ore-
body in the world, has a post-closure operating plan covering
200 years. He said, "I think the federal government can have an
impact sometime between now and 200 hundred years from now."
5:33:06 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON questioned whether the KSM mine has a 200-
year lifespan.
MR. ARCHIBALD explained the operating plan is mining for 52
years, and active water treatment and post-closure activities
for 200 years, which is the maximum time-period for the plan's
predictive model. The rate of water treatment would be 119,000
gallons per minute discharged into the Unuk River for 200 years.
He said he wondered why industry associations are opposed to the
tools and expertise federal agencies would provide.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND asked for an alternative to watered
tailings storage.
MR. ARCHIBALD said one alternative is a dry stack as utilized by
Greens Creek mine on Admiralty Island. The "technical panel"
recommended that safety, and not economics, should be the
"driver" behind tailings dam design; currently, tailings dam
design is based on three considerations: economics and
financial feasibility, environmental impacts, and impacts to
society. Although water did not cause the dam failure at Mount
Polley, the water mobilized the tailings, thus more damage was
caused than if the tailings were dry stacked.
5:36:06 PM
DEANTHA CROCKETT, Executive Director, Alaska Miners Association
(AMA), informed the committee AMA is the professional trade
association for Alaska's mineral industry, mines large and
small, and has branches in eight locations statewide. She
directed attention to a letter in the committee packet from AMA
dated 3/15/17, which addressed "the first version" of HJR 9, and
that noted the collaboration between the state and B.C. led to
the MOU and SOC agreed upon by the two governments, and to the
beginning of technical work to further collaboration. At the
time of the letter, AMA suggested the resolution reflect the
aforementioned advancements by which to address any concerns
regarding transboundary mining. However, HJR 9, Version B,
includes new language insisting on federal government
intervention, in addition to the ongoing collaboration. Ms.
Crockett expressed surprise that the legislature would be
requesting federal overreach into the management of Alaska's
natural resources, and the regulatory management of its
resources. Instead, she said, the legislature should support
Alaska's collaboration and the regulatory mission of state
agencies, and thereby avoid compromising the formalized
collaboration. Results from collaboration by Lieutenant
Governor Mallott and B.C. officials include the state's
participation on the mining review committee for the Brucejack
and KSM projects, and demonstrates that the two governments are
working to address common interests and to protect waters and
fisheries. Ms. Crockett concluded that asking for federal
involvement is unnecessary and cedes Alaska's authority to
manage its resources to the federal government.
5:38:25 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON, after ascertaining no one else wished to
testify, closed public testimony, and before the committee was
CSHJR 9(FSH).
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH expressed his support for the resolution
and opined the resolution does not undercut the efforts of
Lieutenant Governor Mallott, nor of the State of Alaska
Transboundary Working Group. Returning attention to a document
[in the committee packet entitled, "Auditor General's Comments,"
and dated May 2016], that revealed B.C. regulatory failures such
as the catastrophe at Mount Polley and the ongoing contamination
of salmon waters by the Tulsequah Chief mine, he said Alaska has
stringent expectations of its mines, and its expectations are
met because of robust regulatory authority. Representative
Parish cautioned that lower bonding, lower expectations, and lax
enforcement from Alaska's Canadian neighbors puts Alaska
fisheries at risk.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH urged the committee to recognize that
government officials from Alaska and B.C. are working closely
together toward resolving the issues under discussion;
furthermore, Alaska and B.C. share a large economic component in
a successful river system. He said he agreed with previous
testimony from those expressing concern about inviting the
federal government to take the lead in the management of
Alaska's resources.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked if there are any rivers flowing
from Alaska into Canada that would be affected by transboundary
issues.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON said no.
CO-CHAIR TARR expressed her support for the resolution, which
she characterized as a preventative measure. She agreed that
the resolution would not detract from ongoing collaboration, and
pointed out the only legally binding agreement between Alaska
and B.C. must come from the federal governments.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND expressed her support for the
resolution.
5:44:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON directed attention to the resolution on
page 2, lines 15-17, which read:
WHEREAS the federal-provincial environmental
assessment process does not address the long-term,
cumulative effects of industrial development in the
transboundary region; and
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked for more information on "the
federal-provincial environmental assessment process."
5:45:46 PM
JILL WEITZ, spokesperson, Salmon Beyond Borders, explained in
2012, the Harper Administration [Stephen Harper, Prime Minister
of Canada from 2/6/06 to 11/4/15] removed a stipulation within
Canada's environmental assessment process that suggested a
project leaving its jurisdictional boundaries would require a
federal environmental assessment.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked for a reference to said assessment
process.
MS. WEITZ said she believed the relevant reference is to section
36 of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act; section 36 was
removed from the Act during the Harper Administration.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON directed attention to the resolution on
page 2, lines 5-9, which read:
WHEREAS the proposed mines would generate billions of
tons of acid-generating tailings, which would be held
behind huge dams and could pose the threat of acid
rock drainage for centuries, if not in perpetuity; and
WHEREAS the tailings would need monitoring,
maintenance, water treatment, and possible remediation
for centuries, if not in perpetuity; and
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked whether the mine plans are on file.
In response to a request to clarify her question, Representative
Johnson remarked:
So, it's the State of Alaska making a statement saying
that ... [the mines] would generate billions of tons
of acid-generating tailings, ... and I'm wondering
where the facts come from.
5:50:25 PM
MS. WEITZ confirmed that the projects have plans that have been
reviewed by the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) - as well
as independent scientists - regarding the permitting review
process and mines in operation.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON inquired as to whether Ms. Weitz can attest
to have reviewed evidence supporting the resolution on page 2,
lines 5-7, and that many mines would generate billions of tons
of acid-generating tailings.
MS. WEITZ said yes.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON understood it is "well-known" that a large-
scale, open-pit mine poses some threat of acid-rock drainage and
must be monitored for a long period of time, which is
acknowledged in mine operating plans.
MS. WEITZ advised every mining plan is different and thus she
would not generalize. Mining plans identify mine life and the
proposed water treatment; for example, the KSM Project has
projected 200 years of water treatment.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON remarked:
... I have to be aware that what we expect from
upstream in Canada we should be very much prepared to
do upstream ... in Alaska as far as any drainage. ...
I understand ... this is just a resolution, but I
think it's important to remember it's a statement
that, that is ... still action of the legislature. ...
It seems like, a little bit like hyperbole when we
say, when we start talking about what could happen.
We know a lot of things could happen.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked Representative Ortiz if Alaska
would want the resolution applied to it as well [as to Canada].
5:53:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ said absolutely. He agreed that
international water treaties and agreements work both ways, and
potential cooperation leading to agreements between the
governments of Canada and the U.S. would be binding, which is
commonly accepted.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON directed attention to the resolution on
page 1, lines 12 and 13, which read:
WHEREAS large-scale mining in British Columbia is
experiencing unprecedented and rapid expansion within
the Taku, Stikine, and Unuk watersheds; and
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON questioned whether the foregoing
statement is true.
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ said the mines are now being proposed in
large numbers, and they are big mines that did not exist before.
The specific purpose of building [BC Hydro] is to provide energy
to the new mines, and he said, "On the Canadian side, they're at
this point now where they see it's to their benefit economically
to develop, to develop these mines now ...." In further
response to Representative Johnson, he stressed the resolution
addresses proposed mines that would potentially affect the Taku,
Stikine, and Unuk watersheds.
There followed a brief discussion on the character of
resolutions in general.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH clarified that a few rivers in the Arctic
National Wildlife Refuge flow northeast, but they are outside
the scope of HJR 9.
5:58:30 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR moved to report [CSHJR 9(FSH)] out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal
note. There being no objection, CSHJR 9(FHS) was reported from
the House Resources Standing Committee.