Legislature(2001 - 2002)

02/09/2001 03:43 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                      HJR  6-ROADLESS POLICY                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON announced HJR 6 to be up for consideration.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1700                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PEGGY  WILSON,  sponsor,  said  HJR  6  opposes  the                                                            
inclusion of  Alaska's Tongass and  Chugach National Forests  in the                                                            
Roadless  Policy  and wants  to overturn  it.  The Tongass  and  the                                                            
Chugach Land  Management Plans have  cost many millions of  dollars.                                                            
The Tongass Land  Management Plan (TLMP) has already  been in effect                                                            
for over  11 years  costing  $13 million  and countless  hours.  The                                                            
Chugach took 3 years. They  were led to believe the national forests                                                            
in Alaska wouldn't be included in this program.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. RACHEL MORELAND,  Alaska Forest Association, said  they strongly                                                            
supported HJR 6.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICK COOSE,  Ketchikan resident, said he has lived  in Southeast                                                            
Alaska for  20 years and  has hunted and fished  on the Tongass  and                                                            
the roads and  clear cuts are very  useful for those activities.  He                                                            
is retired  from the Forest  Service after  34 years of service.  He                                                            
assured  them   that  the  Tongass  was  not  as   bad  off  as  the                                                            
preservationists put it.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOE  SEBASTIAN, Prince  of Wales Island,  said that is  the most                                                            
heavily,  densely  roaded  space   anywhere  in  Alaska  outside  of                                                            
downtown Anchorage.  He strongly supported  the Roadless  Policy and                                                            
the inclusion of the Tongass  and the Chugach in it. He also defends                                                            
the concepts  of the  Tongass Land  Management  Plan. "The  Roadless                                                            
Policy  embarks  on  a  new  era  and  a  new  moral  consciousness                                                             
concerning natural tracts  of land still left to us and calls a halt                                                            
to industrial exploitation of nature."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CORRIE  BOSMAN,   Sitka,  opposed  HJR  6  and  supported   the                                                            
application  of the Roadless Policy  to the Tongass and the  Chugach                                                            
National Forests.  She didn't think  the legislature understood  the                                                            
policy after speaking  with Representative Wilson  who, she thought,                                                            
was very misinformed.  She thought the policy was  a complete ban on                                                            
any new  road construction  and that's not  true. "This policy  only                                                            
applies to areas  that are currently inventoried as  roadless. There                                                            
will still be road construction  permitted outside of those areas in                                                            
both the  Tongass and the  Chugach." She said  that people  in Sitka                                                            
and other communities  in southeast  Alaska who participated  in the                                                            
Management  Plan  process overwhelmingly   showed support  for  this                                                            
application  to the Tongass.  She said,  "I am  appalled at  the way                                                            
both  Governor Knowles  and  the Forest  Service  has been  handling                                                            
this. This  was lawfully signed into  law. It has been disregarded.                                                             
These  are federal  lands.  They need  to be  managed  on behalf  of                                                            
people here in Alaska,  but also all the other people throughout the                                                            
nation that these lands belong to."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. DON MUELLER, Manager,  Old Harbor Books, Sitka, said he strongly                                                            
supported  including  Alaska in  the  National Roadless  Policy.  He                                                            
thought  it  was wise  for  the  long-term  economics  of  Southeast                                                            
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2400                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARK RORICK,  Sierra Club, said he lived in Juneau  for 30 years                                                            
and didn't think he could  change their minds within this forum, but                                                            
he said there  had been much misinformation about  the Roadless Area                                                            
Conservation  Rule. He  gave an  example of  the Cholmondeley  [east                                                            
Prince of Wales Island]  timber sale, a 35 million board feet timber                                                            
sale  in the Mackenzie  roadless  area  on Prince  of Wales  Island.                                                            
Since the EIS  came out before the rule, the sale  went forward. "It                                                            
targets the best low elevation,  high volume, old growth stands. The                                                            
sale  units followed  stream  valleys  up three  of  the areas  most                                                            
productive water  sheds and constructs 23 miles of  road and crosses                                                            
the stream 63  times. Many of the road segments are  steep and prone                                                            
to land  slides. The  drinking water  supplies of  the residents  of                                                            
Sunny Cove, Clover Bay,  and Saltree Cove are jeopardized. Two lodge                                                            
businesses  that contribute  more than  $2 million  per year  to the                                                            
Ketchikan economy are being put at risk."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 10, SIDE B                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              
MR. RORICK  said, "With this  sale, the Forest  Service has  ignored                                                            
the recommendations of  the interagency biologists when establishing                                                            
the old  growth reserves  called for  by the  forest plan[TLMP]  and                                                            
opted for getting  the maximum ASQ  out at the expense of  the areas                                                            
wildlife."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. JAN KONIGSBERG,  Alaska Salmonid  Biodiversity Program  of Trout                                                            
Unlimited,  opposed HJR 6.  He said that  Trout Unlimited  supported                                                            
the roadless  conservation policy.  He didn't want to talk  them out                                                            
of  the  current  resolution  so  much  as  to  oppose  its  current                                                            
language. He suggested  it be amended in favor of  some balance with                                                            
respect  to  the system  that  is  already roaded  in  the  National                                                            
Forest, particularly in the Tongass.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. KONIGSBERG said he  thought it was the state's responsibility in                                                            
terms of  salmon production  to ensure there  is good fish  habitat.                                                            
There has been more than  20 years of recognition in the Tongass, in                                                            
particular, that there  is a fish passage problem with the roads and                                                            
culverts. After more than  40 years of industrial logging, there has                                                            
been  some reduction  in  fish  production.  That should  really  be                                                            
addressed first.  "Support of litigation  for new roads seems  to me                                                            
to be a bit one-sided  unless there is an equal demand  to first fix                                                            
the old roads. It makes good sense. It's good housekeeping."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KONIGSBERG had draft  language he had presented to the committee                                                            
on this issue.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON thanked  him, but said that he is not in favor of                                                            
amending  this resolution  to talk about  something other than  what                                                            
it was  designed for. He  would support a  resolution that  told the                                                            
feds "to  clean up their  act on areas that  you have identified  of                                                            
culverts not letting the  fish through and other things. That's just                                                            
good sound business practice."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAT  VEESART, Executive  Director, Sitka  Conservation  Society,                                                            
said he was very involved  in organizing to build public support for                                                            
the  Roadless Policy.  He  has had  the  opportunity  of talking  to                                                            
hundreds  and hundreds  of  Alaskans and  thousands  of visitors  to                                                            
Alaska about  the Roadless Policy  and was overwhelmed by  the level                                                            
of public  support for it.  The committee is  being asked to  pass a                                                            
resolution  that is against  the public will  he said. The  Roadless                                                            
Administrative  Rulemaking  process was  a highly  publicized,  very                                                            
public process  that was open to everybody. It was  nation-wide with                                                            
617 hearings  with 39,000  Americans attending  those hearings;  1.6                                                            
million Americans  commented on it.  Over a million of those  people                                                            
favored the  rule and favored inclusion  of the Tongass.  It was the                                                            
largest public process in the USDA history.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
After 17  hearings in  Alaska, 62  percent of  the people who  spoke                                                            
favored the  policy, 75 percent in  Southeast Alaska's four  largest                                                            
cities favored  the policy. Local forest planning  is always subject                                                            
to change in the  national policy that is brought  about by a change                                                            
in public  attitude  about  how our  national forests  are  managed.                                                            
"This  process was  exemplary  and  it was  open to  everyone…It  is                                                            
exactly how policy should be made in a democracy."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. KATYA KIRSCH, Executive  Director, Southeast Alaska Conservation                                                            
Council (SEACC),  said she has lived in the region  for 25 years and                                                            
has seen a lot of clear  cutting. In the last decade, she has seen a                                                            
much  more diverse  economy,  including a  huge growth  in  tourism,                                                            
recreation  industries, high  businesses, fishing,  and a lot  more.                                                            
She  said, "It's  time  to stop  looking  backward to  recreate  the                                                            
economy that chews our  landscape for the gain of just one industry.                                                            
Our  region's  largest  industries   depend  on  a  healthy  Tongass                                                            
National Forest.  While employment  in the timber industry  has been                                                            
declining,  there  have  been  increases  in  tourism,  recreation,                                                             
construction,  health care,  and other  parts  of the economy….This                                                             
decision is not about closing  down any of the nearly 5,000 miles of                                                            
road  that currently  exist on  the Tongass.  It  is about  managing                                                            
those valuable  wild lands  for multiple use  that are now  roadless                                                            
for purposes such as hunting,  fishing, subsistence, recreation, and                                                            
tourism."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIRSCH commented that  50 percent of the timber from the Chumley                                                            
sale is going out as round  logs, red and yellow cedar, exports. The                                                            
Finger  Mountain  timber  sale which  is  in  a roadless  area  near                                                            
Tenakee is  abounding in  spawning salmon,  but the reason  for that                                                            
sale  is to  target  on round  export  of cedar.  She  asked who  is                                                            
benefiting?                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
She said  according  to the Tongass  Road Conditions  Survey  Report                                                            
released in  June 2000, two thirds  of the culverts crossing  salmon                                                            
streams provided inadequate  fish passage and eighty five percent of                                                            
the  culverts  crossing  trout  streams  provided   inadequate  fish                                                            
passage. "Out  of an estimated $20 million backlog  to fix more than                                                            
700 of  these  culverts that  are blocking  safe  fish passage,  the                                                            
Forest Service has been  budgeting only about a half million dollars                                                            
a year.  At this rate  it's going  to take 40  years to fix  current                                                            
fish passage problems on the Tongass."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIRSCH said, "The Alaska  Legislature should call for sufficient                                                            
federal funding  to fix these culverts providing jobs  for Southeast                                                            
Alaskans  and safe  passage  for wild  salmon  so important  to  our                                                            
commercial and sports fishermen."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIRSCH  pointed out several errors  in the "Whereas"  section of                                                            
HJR 6.  "The resolution  claims  that the forest  products  industry                                                            
contributes significant  revenue to the local communities  to the 25                                                            
percent revenue  sharing provision  in federal  law. However,  a new                                                            
federal law  was passed  last year that  guarantees stable  payments                                                            
for roads  and schools to  local forest communities.  Under  the new                                                            
statute,   local  governments   will  receive   an  annual   payment                                                            
equivalent  to the average payment  of their three highest  years of                                                            
timber  receipts over  the past 15  years. Any  reduction in  timber                                                            
receipts  on  the  Tongass  will not  reduce  the  amount  of  money                                                            
Southeast Alaska's communities receive for roads and schools."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SUE  SCHRADER,  Alaska  Conservation   Voters,  said  the  vast                                                            
majority  of her  members  are frequent  users  of the  Tongass  and                                                            
Chugach   National  Forests   for  subsistence,   recreational   and                                                            
commercial  activities.  They have  supported  efforts  by the  U.S.                                                            
Forest Service  to protect the roadless areas in these  forests. She                                                            
listed  the  communities  where  there  were  hearings:   Anchorage,                                                            
Girdwood, Seward, Cordova,  Sitka, Ketchikan, Juneau, Yakutat, Kake,                                                            
Tenakee,  Hoonah, Petersberg,  Thorn Bay,  Craig, Angoon,  Gustavus,                                                            
and  Wrangell. Over  1,000  people attended  those  hearings and  62                                                            
percent  testified  in support  of  including  the Chugach  and  the                                                            
Tongass.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHRADER  said you  could see  proof of why  so many people  are                                                            
concerned about building  roads when looking at Washington state and                                                            
the collateral  damage  that roads  in their  national forests  have                                                            
caused - landslides,  damage to salmon  streams, problems  with game                                                            
poaching, and  increased risks of human caused fires.  She concluded                                                            
 by  asking the  committee  to reconsider  her information  and  not                                                            
support the resolution.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. DARRELL THOMAS, Aide  to Senator Taylor, supported HJR 6 saying,                                                            
"The Southeast  timber industry has suffered blow  after blow in the                                                            
past few  years dealt by  the federal government.  These blows  were                                                            
fatal to two pulp mills,  both major employers of Southeast Alaska."                                                            
He said that  there are only a couple  of saw mills operating  today                                                            
and  the loss  of jobs  has  resulted in  severe  negative  economic                                                            
impacts   to  much   of  Southeast   Alaska.   "The  Roadless   Area                                                            
Conservation Rule  would deliver the final blow to  an entire way of                                                            
life for thousands of people.  Without roads, they have no access to                                                            
schools, stores, or even medical attention."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TORGERSON  said he  had put  together amendment  #1  which                                                            
recognizes the  President has taken an action to delay  the Roadless                                                            
Policy for 60 days.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD moved to  insert amendment #1 on page 3, line 20. It                                                            
reads,  "and WHEREAS  the  Alaska State  Legislature  expresses  its                                                            
appreciation  of  the recent  temporary  delay for  60  days of  the                                                            
Roadless Area Conservation Rule;".                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  asked if the sponsor of the resolution  supported the                                                            
resolution.  Representative  Wilson  said  that  she didn't  have  a                                                            
problem with it.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
There were no objections and the amendment was adopted.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  moved amendment #2  on page 1, line 8 to delete  "the                                                            
25 percent".  The reason  is that last October  Congress passed  and                                                            
the President  signed an alternative way to the 25  percent process.                                                            
The alternative  ways allow  communities in  the Tongass to  average                                                            
the  high three  of the  last  15 years  receipts.  He thought  most                                                            
communities  in Southeast  Alaska would use  that method because  it                                                            
would bring in a lot more  money to them. Representative Wilson said                                                            
she didn't  object to the motion.  There were no further  objections                                                            
and the amendment was adopted.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HALFORD  moved to  pass SCS  CSHJR  6 from  committee  with                                                            
individual recommendations.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON objected  to say that he is very conflicted about this                                                            
resolution. He  does not read the provisions of ANILCA  the same way                                                            
the sponsor  does. He said in 1976  as editor of the Juneau  Empire,                                                            
he began writing  articles to encourage  the process of planning  in                                                            
the Tongass  National Forest. Most  of the decisions that  were made                                                            
were  by politics  and not  necessarily  by good  management  policy                                                            
which bothered  him. He said we had  come a long way since  then. If                                                            
he had  written a way of  handling federal  management decisions  in                                                            
the  Tongass, he  would  have ended  up  with a  process  remarkably                                                            
similar to  the TLMP process. He feels  the same now that  150 - 200                                                            
million  board feet to  be cut per  year was a  good number  for the                                                            
Tongass -  a significant  drop from the existing  cut. They  came up                                                            
with  "a  process  that  was  a  wrenching  divisive   process  that                                                            
eventually  led to the TLMP process  and through various  amendments                                                            
to the  TLMP process,  to a cut  figure in the  neighborhood  of 150                                                            
million board  feet, right  where I wanted  to be 10 years  ago." He                                                            
said he is  bothered by a process  that leads to an executive  order                                                            
by any president that leads  us to something that abrogates the TLMP                                                            
process that  was very painful. He  didn't know how he was  going to                                                            
vote on this resolution when it reached the floor.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  told Chairman Torgerson  that he appreciated  the way                                                            
he had run the meeting  on this issue that has divided people rather                                                            
than bringing them together.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There was  no further discussion  or objection  and the bill  passed                                                            
out of committee.                                                                                                               

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