Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124
03/16/2018 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HCR23 | |
| HB315 | |
| HB260 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 315 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HCR 23 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 260 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HCR 23-PROTECT WILDLIFE FROM FOREIGN PATHOGENS
1:05:01 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 23, Supporting enhanced
efforts to protect wildlife and domestic animals in the state
from infectious diseases, foreign pathogens, and nonendemic
parasites.
1:05:10 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON, speaking as the sponsor, introduced HCR 23.
He said the resolution lays out facts and recommends the
legislature and state agencies take seriously the concern held
by many Alaskans of the potentiality of an outbreak of
Mycoplasma ovipneumoniae (M. ovi) in Alaska's wild sheep, goat,
and muskoxen populations, with sheep currently being the
greatest concern. A [3/13/18 Alaska Department of Fish & Game
(ADF&G)] press release announced that both sheep and goats have
shown the presence of M. ovi. He said he understands that the
meat of [infected] animals would not pose harm to humans from
consumption but depending upon the severity of the strain there
could be a die-off of populations.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON related that this [respiratory pathogen] has
been an ongoing problem in the Lower 48 Mountain West. It
became topical in Alaska politics through two proposals brought
before the Board of Game (BOG) about how to segregate domestic
sheep from wild sheep, he said, most recently in fall [2017].
The proposals drew much attention from big game guides and
hunters as well as domestic sheep owners. The Board of Game
conducted fact finding, but the ultimate conclusion was that the
board lacks jurisdiction over domestic animals. Domestic sheep
brought to Alaska can have these pathogens and the tension
arises in what to do about that fact, he explained. Should
animals be tested, and, if so, what should be done with the
results of those tests, what is the remedy, if any?
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON said he suspects the most contentious part of
HCR 23 is page 2, lines 6-8, which state: "WHEREAS screening,
reporting, and mitigation are proven and widely used tools for
preventing the import and transmission of disease pathogens to
wild populations as well as domestic animals". The rest of the
resolution is relatively pro forma, he continued. Principally,
HCR 23 provides the opportunity to dialogue and gives the House
of Representatives in particular a chance to express concern
with the wild sheep population, which has been the subject of
concern even without M. ovi, such concerns being climate change,
browse, and declining populations in Southcentral Alaska.
1:09:50 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON noted M. ovi could cause pneumonia resulting
in major die-offs. At 45,000 Dall sheep, he said, Alaska has 25
percent of America's populations. In the Lower 48 wild sheep
have died off, resulting in critical loss of population. There
are threats as well to goats and muskoxen, he continued, and
this week goats were detected as having M. ovi.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON related he has pondered how domestic sheep at
elevations of 500-1,000 feet would have contact with a Dall
sheep that seemingly would be many miles away. While Alaska
doesn't have free-range sheep herding, a disease could be spread
through contact with fecal or other matter, he explained.
[Alaska] has about 1,500 domestic sheep and it is potentially
noteworthy that the infected sheep were found in Game Management
Unit (GMU) 13 where it is believed contact or proximity may be
the closest. He pointed out there is no vaccine or treatment
for M. ovi.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON further noted he has forwarded to the
committee the e-mails he has received because he believes e-
mails should be posted on BASIS given that BASIS is the archive
and should reflect everything for future dialogue.
1:12:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH inquired whether the farmers keeping these
1,500 domestic sheep have made official comment.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON replied hundreds of people have made enormous
comment through groups like the Alaska Farm Bureau, Inc. They
have lots of concern, he continued, and he and Co-Chair Tarr
have paired the committee's consideration of HCR 23 with HB 315
because they are opposite sides of the same coin. The question,
he explained, is how to reach a resolution that is fair to
everybody and isn't overreaching or excessive in whatever the
mitigation might be.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH asked how large the population of wild
sheep is in which this pathogen has been found.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON deferred to ADF&G for an answer, but surmised
it would be some fraction of 45,000.
CO-CHAIR TARR noted several organizations, as well as ADF&G,
would be testifying after the sponsor.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said she presumes ADF&G would have all
the facts.
1:15:21 PM
KEVIN KEHOE, President, Alaska Wild Sheep Foundation (AK WSF),
testified in support of HCR 23. He said he is a retired U.S.
Army officer and recently retired small business owner, and is
managing the non-profit foundation as a nearly full-time
volunteer. About 90 percent of the foundation's 600 members are
Alaska residents, he continued. The foundation's mission is to
protect Dall sheep and other wild Caprinae in Alaska, which are
the Rocky Mountain goat and muskoxen. The foundation's current
focus, he explained, is to prevent transmission of the foreign
pathogen Mycoplasma ovipneumoniae (M. ovi) from domestic sheep
and goats to wild populations. The foundation was tremendously
distressed by the recent news that some transmission of some
form of this pathogen has occurred.
MR. KEHOE said his organization supports HCR 23 because it
directly affects achieving the foundation's mission. Twenty-
five percent of North America's wild sheep live in Alaska and
are commonly owned by all Alaskans, he pointed out. Alaska has
45,000 sheep, approximately 27,000 Rocky Mountain goats, and
about 9,000 muskoxen. A highly desirable game species, wild
sheep bring a tremendous amount of resources into the state
annually from both resident and nonresident hunters. Alaska is
the only state in the U.S. in which a sheep tag can be purchased
across the counter. He further noted that Dall sheep are valued
by tourists as well as by hunters.
1:19:03 PM
REBECCA SCHWANKE, Staff biologist, Alaska Wild Sheep Foundation
(AK WSF), testified in support of HCR 23. She noted that as a
biologist for ADF&G she used to manage GMU 13. She is before
the committee, she continued, as the staff biologist for the AK
WSF and as an Alaska resident hunter interested in protecting
wild sheep and other public wildlife resources. She offered her
respect for her former colleagues in ADF&G and said she
understands what it is like to have other people interested "in
what's going on in your sandbox." This resolution brings
attention to protecting Alaska's wildlife from foreign
pathogens, viruses, parasites, and infectious disease, and the
need for this effort has never been greater.
MS. SCHWANKE stated she served on the Western Association of
Fish and Wildlife Agencies' Wild Sheep Working Group from 2007-
2014, and therefore has a unique perspective and history with
the Dall sheep and bighorn sheep community. As the Alaska
representative she worked closely with bighorn biologists,
veterinarians, and agency representatives to understand the
threats and issues affecting wildlife across the West. The
number one threat and concern, she said, was foreign pathogens
and respiratory disease in wild sheep and their relatives.
MS. SCHWANKE related that in 2008 as an ADF&G biologist, she
helped establish the first Dall sheep capture and collar project
in her management area. A main research goal, she said, was to
establish baseline health and disease information because
biologists knew it wasn't a matter of if Alaska's Dall sheep
populations would ever experience large-scale respiratory
disease, it was a matter of when.
MS. SCHWANKE addressed why this was the belief. She explained
that wild sheep populations across the West are being tested and
monitored now more than ever before because they have
experienced continued effects of pneumonia. Large-scale die-
offs and residual disease is the number one ongoing threat for
wild sheep populations in North America. Alaska is facing the
same possible outcomes, she said, and thinking it could never
happen here is naive. The key at this time is M. ovi, an Old
World pathogen that has been identified in domestic sheep and
goats on every continent except Antarctica. Domestics often
live with M. ovi showing no signs or limited signs of illness,
but wild sheep often experience catastrophic effects when
exposed. M. ovi has been identified in Alaska's domestics and
now the state's wild sheep and goat populations, she continued.
This makes it even more critical than ever that all disease and
pathogen testing continue and expand in the state, and HCR 23
offers the opportunity to keep it front and foremost before the
Alaskan public.
1:23:12 PM
MR. KEHOE thanked the sponsor for introducing HCR 23 and said it
symbolizes the emphasis on a proactive approach that is needed
now more than ever. Four Dall sheep and two mountain goats have
tested positive, which shows the need to get on top of this.
Throughout his career he has advised people to manage things
decisively and for no regrets, he continued, and HCR 23 would be
the first policy statement of this type in North America. If
there is one thing that is agreed upon, it is that there are
more questions than answers. The resolution shows the need for
being proactive and getting the questions answered fast. Every
day the spread and impact goes a little farther and currently it
is unknown whether this strain of M. ovi is benign or the
beginning of a crisis.
1:25:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON surmised [M. ovi] isn't a new issue and
asked when it was first identified.
MR. KEHOE replied [AK WSF] brought it to attention in Alaska
about two and a half years ago, but it was not based in fact
until [3/13/18]. He said testing by ADF&G hasn't been
extensive, but has included blood tests and nasal swabs for this
particular pathogen. There has been no indication of infection
until very recently when the test results came back.
1:27:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON offered her understanding the positive
tests came from GMU 13 and on the Kenai Peninsula. She inquired
about the number of sheep in those two areas and whether these
are the areas where sheep hunting generally occurs.
MR. KEHOE responded the Boulder Creek area is next to the road
system, making it accessible and popular for viewing and
hunting. It sits on the border to an adjacent range, he noted,
and the challenge is that many of the southern sheep ranges in
Alaska are contiguous - the Chugach Range to the Talkeetna Range
to potentially the Wrangell's. The chance of spreading, quite
often by traveling young males, is what concerns the AK WSF.
MS. SCHWANKE noted the four positive Dall sheep samples were
reported in Boulder Creek, a central portion of the Talkeetna
Mountain Range that is split by GMU 13A and 14A, with about
1,000-2,000 sheep in 13A and about 1,000-2,000 more sheep west
of the border into 14A. As an area management biologist in the
past, she continued, she has had concerns about some sort of
pathogen load in this area from domestics from years ago. The
Glenn Highway runs right through the middle of a really narrow
spot between the Chugach Range and the Talkeetna's and there
were many homesteaders in the area when the highway was built.
These homesteaders had sheep and goats, plus there was market
hunting during that time to feed the people building the road,
and goats may have been used as pack animals. [Biologists] have
felt there may have been some pathogen transfer in this spot in
years past, Ms. Schwanke related. No large-scale die-offs have
been seen in the Talkeetna Mountains to date.
MS. SCHWANKE said [ADF&G's] Glennallen area management staff is
responsible for a very large section of sheep range in
Southcentral Alaska. This huge area encompasses the Talkeetna
Mountains, a large section of the Chugach Mountains, the South
Alaska Range, and almost all the Wrangell Mountains. Thus, she
explained, surveys get rotated and an area is surveyed every two
to three years. She offered her understanding that the
Talkeetna Mountains haven't been surveyed since 2015. While
harvest numbers have kept up, she continued, it is important to
go look at those populations to try to get a handle on it.
MS. SCHWANKE said the positive goat samples were from a capture
operation in GMU 15C within the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge.
She offered her understanding that those goats were radio
collared and are being tracked, and no unexpected die-off or
mortality has been seen to date in that population. She said
her guess is that a couple thousand goats are in that area.
1:32:26 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked whether sheep migrate by distance
or by elevation. She further asked how the herds would be seen
as intermingling.
MS. SCHWANKE answered sheep are not a migratory big game species
in Alaska, but that unfortunately young males go on long forays
on a regular basis. She related she has lived in the Copper
River Basin for 17 years and has a long list of documented
forays of mountain goats and Dall sheep. The latest was about
two years ago when a Dall sheep showed up on the Gulkana River
in the middle of the Copper River Basin on a tiny clay bluff in
the middle of the boreal forest, roughly 45 miles from the
nearest known sheep range.
1:33:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER declared he has a conflict of interest
because he is a sheep hunter and also raises goats. He said he
has packed his goats into the hills to hunt sheep, but had to
stop when about six years ago it was determined that sheep and
goats were a problem and goat packing was disallowed from sheep
hunting. He has therefore been involved in this argument as a
member of the public, he stated, but not as a legislator.
1:36:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LINCOLN inquired whether M. ovi is transmitted
only by direct contact, such as mouth-to-mouth contact.
MS. SCHWANKE replied it is an airborne pathogen, as far as is
known. It is a matter of close proximity because the pathogen
cannot live long outside of a host species, she explained. When
an animal is carrying the pathogen, when it is detected in the
nasal cavity, the thought is that it isn't transmitted a
significant distance. However, an infected animal that actually
becomes sick will start coughing or have nasal discharge and
there would then be a longer distance for aerial transmission.
REPRESENTATIVE LINCOLN asked whether there is much opportunity
for transmission between sheep and goats.
MS. SCHWANKE responded that during aerial surveys she has
observed Dall sheep and mountain goats in the same groups. So,
she continued, those two groups can come into nose-to-nose
contact in areas where they overlap in range.
1:37:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LINCOLN observed that in its press release this
week the Alaska Wild Sheep Foundation offered $600,000 to fund a
project of testing and replacing infected [domestic] animals.
He requested further elaboration about the project.
MR. KEHOE answered that this is a unique solution tailored
toward Alaska because unlike in the Lower 48, Alaska doesn't
typically have herds grazing up in the mountains. After
checking with its technical experts to ensure its science was
correct for coming up with a solution, AK WSF decided that the
best way to allow for both a sheep hunting, guiding, and
outfitting industry and a domestic sheep [industry] was to try
an approach called M. ovi free. This approach was chosen over
trying to do something with separation because even if a 15-
mile-long foray range were used instead of 45 miles, it would
virtually eliminate the entire industry of domestic sheep and
goats. So, he explained, if people would come forward and have
their animals tested, AK WSF has offered to pay for the vet
visit, the testing which is about $50 each in a sequence of
three nasal swabs about two to three weeks apart, and also a
serology test, all of which would done by a laboratory at
Washington State University and would be as seamless as possible
[to the livestock owner]. Mr. Kehoe said the veterinarian would
be able to tell the livestock owner the results and AK WSF would
also have access to the test results it paid for of those
animals found to be positive. Currently the only known solution
for an animal testing positive for the presence of M. ovi is the
following mitigation: destroy the animal; quarantine the animal
for the rest of its days as long as an agency can inspect to
ensure it is staying onside; or transport the animal to another
location, preferably a non-sheep jurisdiction, for which AK WSF
would pay the cost. He pointed out that this money comes from
volunteer hours and donors, so there must be testing and
mitigation stipulations, not just free testing.
1:42:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LINCOLN said HCR 23 is good and positive but also
kind of vague. He inquired whether Mr. Kehoe thinks the AK
WSF's proposal would be adopted if the resolution were passed.
MR. KEHOE replied it is designed to be separate, so would not be
automatic if the resolution passes. He said it isn't vague, but
rather it is in a general sense, because there is a whole host
of pathogens, such as winter tick. With changing climate there
are potential pathogens that could affect Alaska. So AK WSF is
taking an approach that could potentially energize all of those
different efforts. At the same time it would lay a foundation
for building off of and in a year or so there could be specific
legislation that might be required to actually implement this
specific solution.
1:44:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH remarked that this issue is profoundly
disturbing. When a pathogen is first introduced into a wild
population it is impossible to know how devastating it will be,
he said. A few mutations and the pathogen becomes a high
mortality disease that could cause extirpation. If it becomes
pandemic in the sheep and goat populations in one region, it
could extend into the populations statewide and could get into
the muskoxen populations. He related that according to an
article in the Journal of Animal Ecology it is associated with
long-term declines in wild sheep populations. So, he continued,
it could be possible that this is the beginning of the end for
Alaska's wild sheep. He commended the Alaska Wild Sheep
Foundation for committing a tremendous sum of money. According
to the article, he related further, once this disease becomes
established in a population it is extremely hard to eliminate.
Just because animals aren't dying this year doesn't mean there
won't be a mass die-off next year. If transmission of the
disease is mouth-to-mouth, then common browse is all that's
necessary.
CO-CHAIR TARR offered her belief that some of Representative
Parish's statements are inaccurate. She inquired whether he has
a specific question he would like to ask.
1:48:15 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH asked what it would take to make Ms.
Schwanke confident about the long-term health of the sheep
populations.
MS. SCHWANKE replied, "A time machine is the only solution right
now that would make me feel comfortable with what we're
learning." She said Representative Parish's foresight is well
focused and M. ovi is particularly frightening because it has
evolved significantly over time at least 60 strains of the
pathogen are known with some strains more virulent and deadly to
populations than others. There are different interactions
between different strains of M. ovi and different wild sheep.
MS. SCHWANKE noted that currently almost all of the science is
with bighorn, and in the vast majority of times when M. ovi has
been documented to having entered a wild sheep population, the
population has experienced some form of significant respiratory
disease and die-off. Washington State University is watching
this pathogen in bighorn sheep, she reported, and of the 42
bighorn populations being watched that are pneumonic, 42 are
positive for M. ovi. Pneumonic means regular cases of pneumonia
come up year after year - sometimes it's adult mortality,
sometimes lamb mortality, and sometimes it's delayed mortality.
Of the 35 healthy non-pneumonic populations that the university
is watching only four have tested positive for M. ovi.
MS. SCHWANKE said M. ovi is different from other respiratory
bacteria affecting the Caprinae family because it affects and
compromises the immune system, making [wild sheep] susceptible
to many other respiratory pathogens. Once infected with M. ovi,
she continued, populations generally have negative impacts. If
they don't, it doesn't mean they aren't going to in the future.
The pathogen could evolve or another strain of M. ovi could come
in and current research says those animals will entirely have a
negative response to it. Once a pathogen is in a wildlife
population it is virtually impossible, if not impossible, to get
rid of it in the population.
MS. SCHWANKE related that Western states have been dealing with
this for over a decade and many difficult political decisions
have been made in those states. The most successful management
action is to test and cull, she explained, and if an animal
tests positive for M. ovi it gets removed from the population.
Test and cull is now happening in most of the Western states and
is very emotional and controversial. It is something that will
now likely be discussed in the state of Alaska for forever, she
posited, because she doesn't see it going away.
MR. KEHOE added that the worst case is to have to eliminate a
certain population when testing shows infection and it is
warranted. That is why the Alaska Wild Sheep Foundation is
pushing for more testing and more study of the wild population
as soon as possible, he said. It would be up to organizations
like AK WSF to explain [to the public] that that is the best
solution. This year in Colorado three or four rams came into
contact with domestic sheep. In Alaska mountain goats came into
Palmer and were transported back to the mountain. But, he
continued, this was an error - they probably should have been
destroyed due to the potential of contact. If wild animals come
into the proximity [of domestics], it is best to play it safe
and eliminate those animals as a precautionary action, at least
until more studies have been done and more is known.
1:54:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH inquired about the cost to test and cull.
He further inquired whether Ms. Schwanke found any of his
remarks to be inaccurate.
MS. SCHWANKE replied she doesn't have budget figures, but that
most Western bighorn populations are accessible by road, which
provides opportunity for biologists to drive close to these
areas. However, she continued, these Western state biologists
must still charter helicopters to net-gun the animals, which
costs thousands of dollars, and sometimes $10,000 is spent to
capture only a handful of animals. In the areas where M. ovi
first started being detected the animals were presenting with
illness. Hunters or biologists saw animals that were clinically
ill, so a look was taken and the population tested. It took a
long time for some of those states to come around to the
decision to cull these animals, she related. It is brutal and
hard to do, especially when they test positive but still look
healthy. It is not as big of a deal if it can be done quickly
and one or two animals at a time. A few populations have been
extirpated on purpose by state agencies, she continued, because
they were such small populations or they were all infected.
MS. SCHWANKE said she didn't find any specific inaccuracies with
Representative Parish's statements. There are many different
scenarios and lots of different populations have experienced
pneumonic die-offs. Many different pathogens have been reported
and different percentages had M. ovi, she advised, so lots of
different numbers could be provided. An ongoing concern for
populations with M. ovi is that once a die-off occurs, generally
5-20 percent of the population remains with the pathogen and
becomes carriers and the population never recovers.
CO-CHAIR TARR, regarding her statement about the accuracy of
Representative Parish's statements, said she was referring to
two things she wants to ask Mr. Dale of the Alaska Department of
Fish & Game. First is that just having the bacteria doesn't
mean an animal is going to get sick. Second is that the strain
detected has not been tied to the genetic strain found in
domestic animals.
1:57:30 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND asked when construction of the Glenn
Highway occurred, along with the market hunting of wild sheep
and use of pack goats. She also asked how transmission occurs
given the M. ovi pathogen cannot live long outside an animal.
MS. SCHWANKE replied she doesn't know the exact year, but a
regularly traveled dirt trail existed by the mid-1930s from the
Knik River Valley to McCarthy. Regarding market hunting, she
said Jim Reardon has written some excellent books and she has
seen photos from those times of Dall sheep hanging from trees
next to camps. Jim Reardon wrote about specific people along
the Richardson Highway who made money market hunting and sheep
was one of those species. She said she understands that market
hunting occurred along the Glenn Highway during construction.
She added that homesteaders, lodges, and roadhouses had goats to
provide milk for travelers, so domestics were spread up and down
those roads before they were turned into highways.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND asked how the pathogen lived from the
1930s to now.
MS. SCHWANKE responded that when population declines occurred in
adjacent areas the thought was where pathogen transfer could
have come from. Several of the respiratory pathogens have to be
passed nose-to-nose or within a couple hundred yards, she said,
and [ADF&G] is interested in many other respiratory pathogens
when it does testing. It was felt that some historic transfer
of pathogen could have occurred, but it was in passing given
there has been no large-scale die-off. Different species of
pathogens are found in pneumonic sheep, she explained, and over
the past decade it's come to the attention of state biologists
that a lot of those pathogens are now endemic and common in
sheep populations across Alaska, including in the Talkeetna
Mountains. When wild animals are in close proximity to
homesteads and domestics it doesn't take much to have a Dall
sheep come down to a yard where there is feed or water. There
are photos from Dawson of Dall sheep and domestics in the same
pen. Those Dall sheep had been living with some of those
respiratory pathogens for a long time. M. ovi is a different
pathogen, she continued. It has been difficult to detect and
years ago testing didn't exist for it. She said her
understanding is that the first testing for M. ovi was in the
Chugach sheep population that was collared in 2008. The wild
populations have therefore been sampled for M. ovi for the past
10 years and no evidence has yet been found of the pathogen in
nasal cavities through nasal swabs or even exposure to it as
evidenced through a blood serology test looking for titers.
MR. KEHOE added that he describes it as a "one-two punch" in
that M. ovi is poly-microbial - it creates an immune deficiency
by disarming the cilia in the linings of the airways, which then
allows these other pathogens, which could have been transmitted
way back when. The blood tests described by Ms. Schwanke have
found that many of those are already in the population. He said
it can be thought of as "kindling waiting for the match,"
meaning one is already out there and if the match can be
prevented from hitting the kindling then there is a shot.
2:05:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND inquired whether test and cull is of the
wild or the domestic population.
MS. SCHWANKE answered she is specifically talking about the
wildlife populations in the Western states. It is the wildlife
populations that have experienced pneumonic die-offs and those
are the focus of how to stop it and how to get those herds
healthy again.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND referenced a document reporting that 39
mountain goats on the Kenai Peninsula were captured and analyzed
and 2 tested positive. She asked whether those goats were
tested and released.
MS. SCHWANKE offered her understanding that they were released.
She explained the goats were radio collared, samples taken, and
the samples sent to a lab, and it can take days, weeks, or
longer to get the full test results.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND surmised that to test and cull, the
testers would have had to retain the animals.
MS. SCHWANKE replied right. At this time the technology that
the department is utilizing is standard draw the blood, send it
to a lab in Washington, and have it sampled. Newer technology
is being tested by Washington State University that allows in
the field-testing that takes up to 45 minutes to get a result.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND inquired about the testing of Alaska's
domestic population, which is much smaller than the wild
population, and which was talked about by Mr. Kehoe.
MR. KEHOE responded that cull is the option that would probably
have to take place for the wild. But for domestic, mitigate is
the term used because there are three options - cull,
quarantine, or ship. To go M. ovi free it is essentially the
same look in both cases.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND asked whether the meat of culled animals
is edible.
MR. KEHOE answered the meat is not affected at all.
2:07:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER inquired how long before an animal dies
once it has contracted this disease.
MS. SCHWANKE replied it depends on the strain and the
interaction between the pathogen and the wild animal. It could
be as quick as 24 hours or could take weeks or could be never.
The hope is that it is a benign strain and nothing happens.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER surmised that if the disease had been
passed to the wild animals by [pack goats] 10 years ago then
they would have been "wiped out" by now.
MS. SCHWANKE responded not necessarily. These pathogens come in
many different strains and some are more virulent than others.
Had there been a virulent strain of M. ovi or another pathogen
60-80 years ago, then, yes, it would be remnant populations of
Dall sheep and mountain goats in those areas.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said that was not his question.
MR. KEHOE added that in current testing about 4-5 percent of the
domestics were positive. It is possible that that group of pack
goats wasn't infected and then there are the variables talked
about by Ms. Schwanke.
2:10:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER offered his understanding it is being
said that this is an emergency, that these animals could contact
something that could wipe them out. He asked why it didn't wipe
out the population 10 years ago if they contracted it. He
further asked whether it is being said that the wild populations
could contract it and not be wiped out.
MR. KEHOE confirmed it's possible the populations wouldn't be
wiped out, which is what Ms. Schwanke explained. The hope is
that it is relatively benign. But, he continued, the problem is
that currently there are more questions than answers and what
that says is there isn't an emergency that can absolutely be
declared because not enough is known. It says there needs to be
surveys and to take it aggressively to find out whether there is
a problem. Perhaps that's an over-reaction, but it's the safest
way because under-reaction could result in being bitten.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER opined that hunting with pack goats is
not mating with wildlife and that they never touch each other.
2:11:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON offered her understanding that the goats
that were collared, tested, and released in the Kenai area came
up positive. She asked why ADF&G biologists couldn't be sent
back to [cull] those collared goats.
MS. SCHWANKE answered there are differing professional opinions
on what to do with an animal that has tested positive with this.
If it were up to her she would immediately helicopter out and
euthanize those animals to remove them from the population.
Other professionals take the wait-and-see approach and won't
kill a healthy-looking animal when nothing has happened. Those
are the two ends of a hotly debated discussion right now.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked how the Alaska Wild Sheep
Foundation would feel about hunters packing a test kit to swab
animals at harvest.
MR. KEHOE replied AK WSF advocated for and offered funds last
year to do that, but the money wasn't needed because the state
came up with funds. Hunter-killed [Dall] sheep are required to
be sealed by ADF&G, he explained, and he is unsure whether these
animals were tested in the field by the hunters or by ADF&G at
sealing. The department very aggressively tested at its check
stations. He said AK WSF would be working aggressively this
year to promote the testing of harvested animals.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired as to how many [tests] were
received from hunters.
MS. SCHWANKE deferred to ADF&G for an answer. She offered her
belief that about 300 samples were taken between hunter-reported
kits and animals swabbed by ADF&G at sealing.
2:14:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LINCOLN asked whether ADFG currently has the
statutory authority to make a decision to cull.
MS. SCHWANKE deferred to ADF&G to provide an answer.
2:15:47 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR requested Mr. Bruce Dale of ADF&G to discuss the
recently received test results and whether it is correct that
the strain detected is not tied to the genetic strain found in
domestic animals. She further requested Mr. Dale to address the
previous statements that it is unknown where and when [wild]
animals may have been exposed.
2:16:26 PM
BRUCE DALE, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, Alaska
Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), reported ADF&G hasn't yet
completed work with the laboratory on identifying the strain
that was found in the wild goats and sheep. The work is
ongoing, he said, and requires looking at additional genes and
comparing them for matches with known samples in the gene bank.
CO-CHAIR TARR related that according to the ADF&G press release
the positive-testing sheep were harvested by hunters and
appeared to be healthy. She asked whether ADF&G is taking the
wait-and-see/need-more-information approach or the approach of
culling the positive-testing wild animals.
MR. DALE responded the positive-testing sheep appeared healthy
in every respect to the hunters who brought them in. He said
ADF&G is waiting to develop a monitoring plan for that
population and is trying to decide whether to collar them.
There is some chance that handling an infected animal and then
handling other animals afterwards could spread the bacteria, he
explained, so ADF&G is looking to identify the strains and then
develop a monitoring plan. There are additional samples yet to
be run and it may be found that it is a larger area that must be
worked with. The monitoring plan for the sheep must be based on
the area. He noted that samples have been collected from large
parts of the state that did not test positive.
MR. DALE said the goats that tested positive are radio collared,
so ADF&G is able to monitor their health. Regarding culling
those animals, he noted it is two positive goats and three more
still needing additional testing that are possibles. That is
two out of 39, he continued, which tells that there very likely
are many other positive goats on the Kenai. Removing the two
from that sample wouldn't remove the bacteria from the
population. Those two goats can tell the department whether or
not they are going to get sick, so they are more valuable onsite
right now so ADF&G can monitor their health and determine how
extreme of a reaction should be had with these animals.
2:19:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LINCOLN urged his question not be misconstrued as
being in favor of culling. He asked whether Mr. Dale believes
ADF&G has the authority and tools necessary to make the best
decision for how to address this issue in the wild populations.
MR. DALE answered ADF&G wishes it had more tools but, of the
known tools, the department has those in its toolbox. Hundreds
of samples have been collected, so ADF&G has done a good and
aggressive job of getting out there, especially in the last few
years, to screen as much as it can for this and other diseases.
The department has been monitoring diseases for a long time, he
said, it is part of what ADF&G does. For example, the
department is monitoring other issues, such as winter kick and
chronic wasting disease, both of which would be catastrophic to
moose and caribou populations. Despite Alaska's lack of roads,
he continued, ADF&G probably has a more extensive program of
handling animals than do most states and can handle and cull
animals. He reiterated he believes ADF&G has the tools.
2:21:20 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR opened public testimony on HCR 23.
2:21:24 PM
PAUL FINCH, Agent, North Country Farm, testified that his herd
of goats reproduces to about 70 animals every summer and are
marketed for their meat. He said HCR 23 is a complex issue that
puts Alaska's small farms with goats and sheep at economic,
legal, and emotional risk that may potentially not be
survivable. He argued that theoretical data from the Lower 48
is being used to fuel the premise behind HCR 23. He urged the
committee to allow appropriate input from farmers on this
hunter-sponsored resolution to find a common-sense solution that
protects all parties.
2:23:01 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON inquired whether Mr. Finch is suggesting that
the Mountain West die-off is not M. ovi related.
MR. FINCH replied that is not what he said. The issue is that
the grazing habits in the Lower 48 have no bearing on the
Alaskan picture. There are many barriers between domestic and
wild populations that will never be overcome, he said, so the
initial proposals from the [AK WSF] and others were overreaching
shock statements designed to produce results. It is worrisome
that this is a unidirectional steppingstone toward unreasonable
mitigation measures.
2:24:26 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH asked what Mr. Finch would view as a
reasonable solution.
MR. FINCH responded that various goat groups in the state have
proposed very reasonable, step-wise solutions. While he doesn't
have those handy, he continued, it is basically that the risk
needs to be stratified and applied in appropriate geographical
measure. Nobody wants to hurt wild populations, he stressed,
but it isn't appropriate to impose draconian measures on a herd
that will never see wild sheep habitat and that the closest they
will come is in frozen packages in the freezer. More time and
more input from these groups needs to happen, he added.
CO-CHAIR TARR stated she would be thinking about both angles as
the committee considers HCR 23.
2:25:26 PM
TIANA THOMAS, Mutual Aid Network of Livestock Owners and
Producers, testified that HCR 23 would be an ineffective,
costly, and crippling blow against food security and food access
in Alaska. She stated that 3 percent of the Alaska domestic
sheep in which it was found are asymptomatic. She further said
that these sheep cannot spread it past one foot because they are
not sick and not coughing and so do not broadcast it into the
air. She maintained that the goat variant, which is likely what
the GMU 13A goats were exposed to many years ago, is not fatal.
The sheep variant is fatal, especially when commercial-sized
herds are going into habitat, but Alaska does not have that.
Alaska also doesn't have transplanted animals that have lost
their historic travel patterns and are more likely to interact
with domestics. She said the quotes on science are conveniently
ignoring studies that state packhorses are as lethal as pack
goats with a different bacterium.
MS. THOMAS stated that to demand the state be M. ovi free is a
scientific impossibility because it cannot be proved that it
won't exist. She said the [AK WSF] has stated it will not allow
an animal to be proved negative if it has tested positive once
on serology, which means the animal has had it and beaten it off
and is no longer carrying it. She argued that if the nasal swab
is negative and the animal just has an antibody remnant in its
blood, it is no longer a transmitter or carrier. However, she
continued, the [AK WSF] will not allow that animal to be proven
negative no matter how many negative nasal swabs it has.
MS. THOMAS added that current science states a positive nasal
swab does not indicate the presence of infection. Detection is
not infection, she said. The same animal in many subsequent
tests will come up negative; they can clear the mycoplasma.
Infection is not lethal in every case. She charged that the
science is being conveniently edited for the worst possible
outcome. She said her organization's solution is to cull via
isolation rather than to cull via euthanasia, but this
[proposed] solution is being ignored.
2:29:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH inquired about the percentages that were
found in the results from voluntary testing.
MS. THOMAS replied that about 80 percent of her organization's
members have had their flocks cleared through voluntary testing.
Of the rest, about 3 percent of the sheep and 1 percent of the
goats were asymptomatic detection. However, she reiterated, the
goat strain is not as lethal as the sheep strain, so goat
contact is not a concern. She noted that 1 percent could be a
statistical anomaly; it could be a false positive.
2:30:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND asked whether the livestock producers
who are members of Mutual Aid Network of Livestock Owners and
Producers are in Alaska. She further asked whether Ms. Thomas
is located in Alaska and, if so, where.
MS. THOMAS replied she is in Alaska and resides within GMU 14.
She was born in Juneau and moved to her current location in 1985
and has been involved with livestock ever since.
2:31:22 PM
AMY SEITZ, Executive Director, Alaska Farm Bureau, Inc.,
testified the bureau agrees with HCR 23's intent to encourage
agencies to protect the health of Alaska's wildlife and domestic
animals. However, she continued, the bureau would like to
address the clause on page 1, line 13, which states, "WHEREAS
the state subscribes to science-based wildlife management". She
agreed that having effective practices in place is key, and said
the Alaska Farm Bureau wants to ensure that the science used for
managing Alaska's resources is relevant to Alaska. It isn't
prudent to encourage agencies to implement decisions based on
situations or information pertinent in other states.
MS. SEITZ stated that in working with agencies on the current
issue of domestic and wild sheep and goat interaction and M.
ovi, the bureau has found the agencies are doing what HCR 23
encourages. They are gathering the information necessary to
base a decision on science relevant to Alaska and Alaska's Dall
sheep populations. Taking this action is the necessary and
prudent route as opposed to implementing a solution before
having the facts. Instead of passing a resolution like this,
she said, the legislature could encourage and support Alaska's
agencies in their efforts by doing things like enacting [HB
315]. That bill would encourage people to test their animals so
Alaska's agencies would know what diseases are out there, would
help with early detection, and would give agencies time to
respond appropriately. While the intent of HCR 23 is fine, she
reiterated, the Alaska Farm Bureau believes there are other ways
the legislature could show its support for agencies.
2:33:36 PM
JOHN STURGEON, First Vice President, Alaska Outdoor Council,
testified in support of the Alaska Wild Sheep Foundation's
efforts and thanked the sponsor for introducing HCR 23. He said
HCR 23 is a good step to help solve a potentially devastating
problem in Alaska's wild sheep, goats, and muskoxen. Alaska's
wildlife is valuable for hunting and viewing and Alaska is the
only state with Dall sheep, a treasure that needs to be kept
healthy. In the Lower 48, he related, it is not unusual to
require the testing of domestic animals to ensure they are free
of disease that could infect other domestic animals or wildlife
populations. From 25 years of hunting in Montana and Wyoming,
he said, he is aware of mountain ranges where 70-80 percent of
the sheep have been killed by M. ovi. This very deadly disease
shouldn't be underestimated, he stressed. It lurks in the
background until the conditions are right, then it gives the
double whammy of another pathogen coming in and the sheep die in
large numbers. Regarding the question about what the domestic
folks would propose for a solution, he said he thinks the Alaska
Wild Sheep Foundation's proposal to pay for testing is generous.
2:36:48 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR closed public testimony on HCR 23.
2:37:06 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR asked Dr. Gerlach whether eradicating the M. ovi
bacteria from Alaska is a realistic goal.
2:37:26 PM
ROBERT GERLACH, DVM, State Veterinarian, Division of
Environmental Health, Department of Environmental Conservation
(DEC), replied that the total elimination of a disease is
extremely difficult. Only two diseases have been completely
eliminated in the world rinderpest in cattle and small pox.
Rinderpest was identified as cattle fever in the 1700's and most
veterinary schools were formed to address that disease, he said.
It took until just a couple years ago to eliminate rinderpest,
he continued, so to totally eliminate a pathogen is an extremely
large and costly task.
[HCR 23 was held over.]
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HCR23 Game Mngmnt Unit 13.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR23-wildlife econ importance-in-2011-summary-report.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR23_ NR_Movi Detected_3-13-18.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR 23_AK-WSF-PRESS-RELEASE.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR23_ AK WSF Support Ltr.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR23_dalls_sheep_news_winter_2017.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HB 315 Transmittal Letter 2.14.2018.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 315 |
| HB 315 ver A 2.14.2018.PDF |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 315 |
| HB 315 Fiscal Note DEC-EHL 2.14.2018.PDF |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 315 |
| HB 315 Supporting Document - Presentation 3.15.18.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/26/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 315 |
| HB 315 Additional Documentation - DEC Letter re Alaska Grown 2.14.2018.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/21/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/2/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 315 |
| HB 315 Supporting Documents - Homer Swift Creek Ranch 2.8.2018.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/21/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/2/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 315 |
| HB260 Sponsor Statement 1.25.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/2/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/4/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 260 |
| HB260 ver A 1.25.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/21/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/2/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/4/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 260 |
| HB260 Residential Hunters AK Letter of Support HB 260.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 260 |
| HB 260 Fiscal Note-DFG- 2.16.18.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/21/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/2/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/4/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 260 |
| HB 260 Supporting Document - Status of Electronic Fish Game licenses, mobile apps and websites in other states 3.15.18.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/21/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/2/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/4/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 260 |
| HCR 23 Version A .PDF |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/26/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR23 Disease Free in the North.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR 23 Supporting Document - Territorial Sportsmen 3.16.18.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR 23 Fiscal Note - LEG-SESS- 03.16.18.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/26/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR23 Support ltr, AK Prof Hunters Assoc..pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR23 Opposition, Judd.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HCR 23 Opposition, Crosby.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HCR 23 |
| HB315 Support, AK WSF Comments.pdf |
HRES 3/16/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/21/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/23/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/26/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/2/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 315 |