Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 106
03/06/2008 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB353 | |
| HCR20 | |
| HB406 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 396 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 261 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 353 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HCR 20 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 406 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HCR 20-RESIDENTIAL FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS 8:27:06 AM VICE CHAIR ROSES announced that the next order of business was HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 20, Encouraging the installation of fire sprinkler systems in residences. 8:27:31 AM REPRESENTATIVE PAUL SEATON, Alaska State Legislature, presented HCR 20 as prime sponsor. He said each year in Homer [the fire department] holds training sessions for the community to teach fire safety. Representative Seaton described the experience he had at one of the training sessions, during which he and others stood in a trailer to witness a fire purposely started at the other end of the trailer and doused by an automatic residential sprinkler system. He said he was impressed by the demonstration, because while a commercial sprinkler system will not be set off before reaching 200-250 degrees Fahrenheit, the residential sprinkler system will activate at 135-155 degrees Fahrenheit. Furthermore, the residential sprinkler sends out mist, so it uses much less water than the commercial sprinklers. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said the availability of residential sprinklers gives Alaskans a great opportunity to protect against fire-related loss. He said sprinklers can be retrofitted in homes. He related that currently there are incentives available for people who put sprinkler systems in their homes when they are built; however, those systems require the national standard of one-inch pipe and a coverage of 100 percent of the structure. Representative Seaton reported that almost all the fires that occur in Alaska in non-smoking households take place near the cooking area, fireplace, or boiler/furnace. He indicated that a sprinkler head can cover a 12-foot radius. He stated that the purpose of HCR 20 is to encourage the government and insurance companies to give a credit on homeowners' insurance for Alaskans who retrofit sprinklers in their homes to cover "the vulnerable parts of their home where most of the fires occur." 8:32:53 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG noted that "platinum, gold, and silver stars" are listed on page 1, line 14, [referring to the "various levels of sprinkler coverage"]. He asked if Representative Seaton would like an amendment to add the bronze star mentioned in a handout in the committee packet. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said the amendment is not necessary. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated his support of the resolution. He asked the sponsor if he would like language added to the bill which would require a progress report related to the fire marshal's compliance with the resolution, perhaps to be given after a year or two. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON answered that he is comfortable with the resolution without a report requirement. 8:34:39 AM [Following is a video from YouTube, called, "Residential sprinklers demonstration."] 8:38:29 AM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON indicated that the residential sprinkler can be mounted directly onto overhead water line pipes, such as are found in furnace rooms. 8:39:08 AM [Following is a video from YouTube, entitled, "Fresno Fire PSA - Fire Sprinkler."] 8:40:21 AM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON noted that included in the committee packet is: a draft plan produced by the fire marshal in 2006, and a report showing that although [smoke detectors] are very important, fire sprinklers are actually what save lives. He noted that there were representatives from various fire departments available to testify, as well as the state fire marshal. He said the Department of Labor "does not even see a fiscal note attached with this," because any of the certifications necessary are already in place. 8:42:14 AM KELLY NIKALOLO, Assistant Fire Marshal, Division of Fire and Life Safety, Central Office, Department of Public Safety (DPS), reported that according to the United States Fire Administration, in 2005, the United States suffered approximately 396,000 residential fires, which resulted in about 3,055 deaths. Those statistics, he said, do not account for emotional loss of loved ones and sentimental possessions. Mr. Nikalolo stated that even with [these statistics which show] an abysmal loss of life, there is still a "substantial resistance to requiring residential sprinklers in new construction today." Furthermore, he indicated that there would be no way to support such a requirement in Alaska. He said the Department of Public Safety finds the aforementioned statistics unacceptable. He stated, "It's incumbent upon us to value those properties that embrace the responsibility of their own safety and reward them for exercising uncommon sense and farsightedness." MR. NIKALOLO said that as described in the proposed resolution, the fire marshal would recognize levels of fixed fire protection installed in single family dwellings through a program that would be called, "the Residential Safety Star Program." He explained that the fixed protection system would be installed by qualified installers, as permitted under 13 AAC 50.035, "or otherwise approved by the manufacturer in concurrence with the State Fire Marshal's Office." MR. NIKALOLO stated: We feel we need that change in culture. For too long our society has rewarded victim status to people who have fires occur in their homes. We risk firefighter and family member's lives to accidents and normal acts of carelessness. We reward those incidents with an outpouring of compassion, positive affirmation, and financial assistance. Shouldn't we reward positive proactive outcome rather than rewarding negative results? MR. NIKALOLO said HCR 20 would bring forth a voluntary, positive, individual approach to fire safety within Alaska's homes and would provide the means to reward families who invest to protect the security of their homes by installing residential fire sprinkler suppression systems. 8:45:27 AM MR. NIKALOLO related a story wherein about 400 homes were built in the North Slope Borough in the early '90s, each home equipped with sprinkler heads. Since that time, there have been a couple instances where residents there have been inebriated and fell asleep while smoking, and woke up "wet but alive." Mr. Nikalolo said, "We look at that program as being kind of the keystone of what we're trying to accomplish here." 8:46:19 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN asked Mr. Nikalolo to clarify the meaning of the language on page 2, lines 11-13, which read: BE IT RESOLVED that the Alaska State Legislature encourages the state fire marshal to formalize the model residential fire sprinkler system program as a statewide program; 8:46:40 AM MR. NIKALOLO prefaced his answer by noting that he was not [in the department] in '96 "when this was first put forth." Notwithstanding that, he estimated that the language means that the legislature would, outside of bill form, give its blessing for the state marshal to go forward with the program. He said the program has no added cost or labor requirements. He said he looks at the language as "a nondescript statement," because "it doesn't direct anything, as far as program is concerned." He concluded, "I think it's just kind of lending the name and the power of the legislature in support of this." In response to a follow-up question from Representative Johansen, he said he thinks the reason the fire marshal would like the legislature's backing for a program that costs nothing is because that support will lend greater weight and increase public awareness. 8:49:09 AM ERNIE MISEWICZ, Fire Marshal, Fairbanks Fire Department, testified in support of HCR 20. He indicated that the public views fires as something that happens to other people, and they do not give them much thought. Mr. Misewicz said he is a 34- year veteran of the fire service and has seen first hand the devastation caused by fire, has carried children and adults from fires who were either injured or killed, and has seen many lives turned upside down and people displaced due to fire. MR. MISEWICZ stated that people believe that the fire department is there to protect them and "save the day," whereas in reality, the fire departments do not have the chance to win the battle with fire. He said, "With the rapid change in technology in the way that we build and furnish our home, fire now grows exponentially." He explained that living rooms are full of large quantities of flammable solids that cause fires to build so greatly. He relayed, "Fires now are reaching a point of flashover within less than two minutes from the start of the fire." Mr. Misewicz said great strides have been made toward requiring early detection in homes, but "we still lack the means to have that early intervention; the means to suppress these fires." He said fire departments strongly believe that residential sprinklers are the answer. MR. MISEWICZ said builders have said they would put sprinklers in residences only if there would be an increase in the value of the home. He explained that construction costs are tight, and if the builder cannot have that extra cost of the sprinkler system realized in the bottom line, he/she is not going to install the sprinklers. He emphasized the need to encourage the installation of sprinkler systems in homes, as well as in commercial buildings throughout the entire state. He said this can be done in many ways: by changing building codes, through breaks in insurance rates, by increasing the value of property in which recognized sprinkler systems exist, and by recognizing the full appraisal value for the life of that property rather than just in the year in which it was installed. He said tax breaks alone are not enough to off-set the cost of installing a sprinkler system. He mentioned the possibility of "low-income loans." MR. MISEWICZ stated that the Fairbanks Fire Department strongly supports both the installation of residential sprinklers and HCR 20 - the proposed resolution being one of the tools in the tool box that will help promote installation of sprinklers. He said there are groups working to make changes to residential code; however, "there's still a lot of opposition out there." He concluded: If we want to impact the devastation caused by fires, especially in the home, we need to start by passing the resolution, and we need to look ... for ways to promote and encourage residential sprinklers, and maybe, at some point, requiring them. This way we can go over there and save lives. 8:53:01 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG mentioned an initiative being considered in Fairbanks that would increase the residential property tax exemption, which would result in a reduction in the amount of money that is available to fund firefighting. He asked, "How would that sort of thing affect the ability of people to protect their homes with fire suppression and fire fighting from the local fire department?" MR. MISEWICZ said he is not familiar with the initiative. Notwithstanding that, he said early suppression efforts reduce the amount of time and effort required of the fire department by the time it arrives at the scene of a fire. 8:55:16 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOLL asked what the added cost would be to install a sprinkler system in a 2,000-square-foot residence if residential sprinklers were made mandatory. MR. MISEWICZ said he has been told that retrofitting a home costs approximately $1.50 per square foot, while installing sprinklers in a new home costs roughly $.90 per square foot. He noted that the cost equates to the expense of installing carpet in a home. 8:57:27 AM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON, in response to a question from Representative Gruenberg, said he is not aware of any other jurisdictions that have mandatory requirements [for residential sprinkler systems]. He reminded Representative Gruenberg that the program that the resolution would support is completely voluntary. He pointed out the difference between retrofitting homes completely and attempting to cover 85 percent of the ignition sources in homes, the latter of which is what the resolution is "trying to do." He said when people talk about mandatory requirements, they are generally talking about "through building codes." Much of Alaska, he said, does not have enforced building codes that affect houses. Since the resolution aims at encouraging all of Alaska to opt for sprinkler protection, the resolution is not attempting to effect something through mandatory building codes. 8:58:52 AM VICE CHAIR ROSES closed public testimony. 8:59:05 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN asked if the resolution is attempting to convince insurance companies to consider deductions and offer incentives. 8:59:27 AM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON offered his understanding that there are two insurance companies in Alaska that currently offer credits, but those credits are based on the national, 100 percent coverage throughout the entire home. He said HCR 20 attempts to get credits offered "for the protection from the ignition sources that generally occur within Alaska." He referred to a handout in the committee packet that shows three charts depicting fire statistics in Alaska. One page, entitled, "Applicable Fire Cause Comparison (2005-2007)," shows that in 2007, nine out of fourteen fire-related deaths were caused by heat sources - the cause of the five other deaths was undetermined. He indicated that the resolution could have a huge effect on Alaskans, giving the incentive and ability to homeowners to protect themselves and their families in the home. 9:00:54 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN indicated that the resolution does nothing more than make a suggestion to the insurance company. He asked if there are other states in which insurance companies recognize partial coverage for "hot spot areas." REPRESENTATIVE SEATON responded that he is not aware of any other states that do so. He said most states offer incentives through building codes, and he reiterated that there are only "some centralized municipalities that even require building codes in Alaska." He said the state fire marshal has developed the pilot program and has indicated it would be finalized. He said insurance companies' charges are supposed to represent their "loss experience"; therefore, there would be a reason for the director of insurance to be asking the insurance company to consider that. REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN indicated that some people had commented on the high rates of plumbers, and he pointed out that simply noting the cost of the sprinklers does not include the labor of having them installed. He observed that there is a zero fiscal note in the committee packet. He said he has seen it happen in the past where the fiscal note started out at zero, a program was started, and in ensuing years requests were made for money to keep the program going. He said he is curious why [the Department of Labor] would need to create a program and curriculum to train licensed plumbers to "cut a pipe and have them put a 'T' in there." REPRESENTATIVE SEATON explained that a way to keep costs down is to have a homeowner do the job him/herself and have a plumber certify that "the [sprinkler] heads are there." He indicated that this would give more authenticity, which would assure the insurance companies that the job was done correctly. He said it may cost more than $100 to do that certification, but in a "normal" house, three sprinkler heads might be sufficient. 9:08:04 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said the bill sponsor has expressed that the program and curriculum exist; therefore, he is not certain why it is necessary that the resolution include language regarding the creation of a program and curriculum. He said he would likely offer an amendment to delete that language. 9:08:55 AM GREY MITCHELL, Director, Labor Standards and Safety, Department of Labor and Workforce Development, in response to Representative Johansen, confirmed that the training curriculums do already exist, so the department would not be required to expend effort to develop a curriculum. Since the resolution is "advisory," he said, "a plumber can get the training or not." Those with the training will get that additional training status noted on their already existing license. MR. MITCHELL, in response to a question from Representative Johansen, explained that currently a plumber can install sprinklers with a standard plumbing license. He explained, "I think what we're talking about here is an advisory where you would have a training program that's separate from the standard that a plumber could get, as an addendum or an addition to their plumbing license, for sprinkler fitting, specifically." In response to a follow-up question from Representative Johansen, he confirmed that there are some training programs that include sprinkler systems as part of their training curriculum, while others do not. REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN expressed concern that another hoop is being created for a plumber to jump through to prove he/she can do a skill that is already part of his/her repertoire. MR. MITCHELL responded, "I think that that's an accurate statement." 9:12:10 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG queried, "Nothing in this resolution or what you're contemplating would require a plumber to be certified in that manner to make a certification that the home has sprinklers, correct?" MR. MITCHELL confirmed that is correct. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG continued, "So, it's not accurate to say that there would be this requirement, is it? ... This encourages you to develop the program so it would be available to plumbers who wanted it; not that they'd be required to have it to make the certification. Isn't that correct?" MR. MITCHELL answered that's correct; it would not be a requirement. He explained, "I think the issue is there would be this question of whether or not the plumber had received that training in order to get whatever benefit the insurance company was providing. So, although it's not required, there would be some kind of a mechanism to show that they had had that training or not." REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked, "If the homeowner wished to prove the installation of complying sprinklers, would that ... plumber have to have had that certification, or could another plumber make the certification to the homeowner to be presented to the insurance company? Would they have to go through your program?" MR. MITCHELL replied that he really does not know. He said, "All that the resolution asks us to do is to develop a training curriculum. The curriculum is already established, so, ... at that point ... we're done. These secondary steps are kind of 'what-ifs,' and since it is all advisory, I don't know exactly how it's going to develop." REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG directed attention to [page 2], lines 21-22, which notes that the Department of Labor and Workforce Development would work with the state fire marshal. He suggested that the department would also work with other groups, such as unions. MR. MITCHELL agreed that certainly the department would get industry support and input on the training curriculum. In response to a follow-up question from Representative Gruenberg, he confirmed that the other input would come not only from unions, but also from industry groups. 9:14:29 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked the sponsor of the proposed resolution how he would feel about including "and other groups" after "state fire marshal". REPRESENTATIVE SEATON responded that that would be fine, since the whole idea is to create a synergy. He suggested that instead of just "train licensed plumbers", the words "and certify" could be added. He explained that the issue is not about how to solder pipes and put in a 'T' - it's about determining whether the sprinkler head is adequate to cover the area. He offered further details. He stated that if the fire marshal recognizes that preventing fires in the aforementioned limited areas is of the greatest benefit, than many lives can be saved in Alaska. 9:17:19 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOLL said she can see how the resolution could have a ripple effect, and she expressed concern that [the resolution] is "much more than meets the eye." She said different homes are made out of different materials, for example. There is a lot more to the resolution than "a simple intent to prevent fires." 9:18:11 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN asked Mr. Mitchell if he has the ability currently to exclude plumbers who do not have the required "sticker." MR. MITCHELL answered that the department's current authority lies in statute and requires anyone working on a potable water system to hold a plumber's "certificate of fitness" license. He said, "These systems in the residential arena are going to be part of that potable water system. So, in order to work on the potable water system, they would have to have that certificate of fitness." An exception he noted would be if a plumber is working in a community with less than 2,500 people. In response to a follow-up question from Representative Johansen, he said, "I guess I'm kind of having trouble making the tie-in with this bill, because I don't think that the bill has anything to do with that requirement." He said if someone is doing plumbing work that is subject to the Uniform Plumbing Code because it is part of the potable water system, thus currently requiring a certificate of fitness, that person does not need a sticker that says he/she has had any training in sprinkler fitting or "those kinds of things." 9:20:39 AM VICE CHAIR ROSES observed, "When you say they have to have the certification; that's only if you're going to get a license as a certified plumber in the state. If I'm a homeowner - I'm building my own home - I don't have to have a certification, and there is no regulation by the Department of Labor [and Workforce Development] that governs that. ... I do have to get a building inspection in my municipality, but I don't have to have a certification. So, you're only talking about for licensure, is that correct?" MR. MITCHELL responded that's correct. REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN restated his previously expressed concern that although the bill has no weight in law, when the legislature pushes in one direction, the department may end up coming back with requests for expenditures. He said he agrees with the intent of the bill; however, he has a problem with the aforementioned language on page 2, lines 21-24. 9:22:19 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked if lay people could also be trained by the department. MR. MITCHELL said he does not see any reason why the training could not be offered to anyone who wished it. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he had included licensed plumbers in the language of the resolution because in most places building inspectors are not required. He said plumbers who install sprinkler systems currently are already licensed to do so, but "this would allow the other plumbers that haven't been trained in sprinkler systems to get that certification." REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated that he fully supports the bill and would not offer an amendment unless the sponsor approved it. He asked if offering certification to homeowners who wished to install sprinklers simply for the purpose of upgrading their homes would be contrary to the purpose of HCR 20. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON responded no. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he would like to encourage the average person [to upgrade his/her home by installing sprinkler systems]. 9:26:03 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN asked Mr. Mitchell if the department could handle allowing anyone to come before it and say, "Hey, I want to do this," and if there would be zero fiscal impact if that should happen. MR. MITCHELL responded yes. He explained the reason is that the curriculums already exist. 9:26:45 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOLL said she foresees that residential sprinkler systems could become mandatory at some point in the future, which would have tremendous impact on homebuilding and insurance. The committee took an at-ease from 9:27:49 AM to 9:30:21 AM. 9:30:41 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG, in response to Vice-Chair Roses, said the House State Affairs Standing Committee is the last committee of referral for HCR 20 before the resolution is heard by the House Rules Standing Committee. 9:33:14 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved Conceptual Amendment 1, as follows: Page 2, line 22, following fire marshal: Delete "," Insert "and other groups" Page 2, line 23: Delete "create a program and a curriculum to" Page 2, line 23, between "train" and "licensed": Insert "and certify" Page 2, line 23, between "plumbers" and "install": Insert "and others" REPRESENTATIVE DOLL [objected for discussion purposes]. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON, in response to Representative Doll, confirmed that the reason for deleting the reference to a program and curriculum is that those are already in place. He noted that since Representative Gruenberg had moved Conceptual Amendment 1, with "and other groups" added after "state fire marshal", the addition of "and others" after "licensed plumbers" is not needed. He said "others" would be certified, but the state would not be getting into a training program for them. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked Representative Seaton how he would like the language of Conceptual Amendment 1 changed. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON suggested that the language should read: working with the state fire marshal and other groups to train and certify licensed plumbers to install or certify residential fire sprinkler systems. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG explained the purpose behind including "and others". REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he does not have any objection to leaving that language in the amendment; however, he said he wants the legislative intent clear that "we're not talking about a workforce development program" where training take place. 9:36:15 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated for the record that upon adoption of Conceptual Amendment 1, page 2, lines 21-24 would read as follows: FURTHER RESOLVED that the Alaska State Legislature encourages the Department of Labor and Workforce Development, working with the state fire marshal and other groups, to train and certify licensed plumbers and others to install residential fire sprinkler systems. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said, "I don't know if I'm a homeowner if you're going to, quote, 'certify' me, but I think the broad sense is that the training is available." REPRESENTATIVE DOLL said she just received a note from a constituent who is a member of a sprinkler fitters' union and "thinks this is diluting it." She asked if the sponsor has spoken with members of the union and whether "this is going to be a potential problem." 9:37:58 AM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON replied that he thinks the concern is that the amendment would somehow affect commercial sprinkler system installation. He emphasized that it would not. 9:38:37 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he thinks the language clearly specifies that the sprinklers affected are residential sprinklers. 9:39:00 AM REPRESENTATIVE DOLL withdrew her objection. There being no further objection, Conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted. 9:39:13 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN moved to report HCR 20, as amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHCR 20(STA) was reported out of the House State Affairs Standing Committee.
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