Legislature(2015 - 2016)CAPITOL 120
04/08/2015 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB123 | |
| HJR14|| HCR4 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HJR 14 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HCR 4 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 30 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 123 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HJR 14-CALL FOR US COUNTERMAND CONVENTION
HCR 4-US COUNTERMAND CONVENTION DELEGATES
2:39:21 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 14, Making application to the United
States Congress to call a convention of the states to propose a
countermand amendment to the Constitution of the United States
as provided under art. V, Constitution of the United States; and
urging the legislatures of the other 49 states to make the same
application, and HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 4, Relating to
the duties of delegates selected by the legislature to attend a
convention of the states called under art. V, Constitution of
the United States, to consider a countermand amendment to the
Constitution of the United States; establishing as a joint
committee of the legislature the Delegate Credential Committee
and relating to the duties of the committee; providing for an
oath for delegates and alternates to a countermand amendment
convention; providing for a chair and assistant chair of the
state's countermand amendment delegation; providing for the
duties of the chair and assistant chair; providing instructions
for the selection of a convention president; and providing
specific language for the countermand amendment on which the
state's convention delegates are authorized by the legislature
to vote to approve.
2:39:31 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SHELLY HUGHES, Alaska State Legislature, said she
will present HJR 14, and HCR 4, in tandem. She then referred to
Article V, of the United States Constitution, which read:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall
deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this
Constitution, or, on the application of the
legislatures of two thirds of the several states,
shall call a convention for proposing amendments,
which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents
and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when
ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the
several states, or by conventions in three fourths
thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification
may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no
amendment which may be made prior to the year one
thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner
affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth
section of the first article; and that no state,
without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal
suffrage in the Senate.
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES described the resolutions as an Article V
effort and stated that the word "countermand" means veto. She
advised this would give state legislatures veto power over
certain decisions being decided upon in Washington, D.C., if a
certain number of states agree. She pointed out that HJR 14 is
the call to the Congress, and HCR 4 gives the delegates
instructions and contains the actual language that would be
added at the bottom of the Constitution, which would be Article
XXVIII if it were to be amended. She explained that calling a
convention requires two-thirds of the states (34 states), to
ratify an amendment it takes three-fourths of the states (38
states). She remarked that within this countermand amendment
there is a mechanism to give the states veto power over federal
decisions, and the amendment itself takes three-fifths of the
states (30 states) to veto a federal decision. She pointed to
the problems Alaska has with federal overreach and that she has
been surprised with how often on the House floor a resolution is
passed with the theme of overreach. She described those as
important statement made, but questioned whether it moved the
needle to restore the balance of power that Alaskans request be
restored. She stated these resolutions are an actionable step
in a long Article V process as other states would have to come
on board in order to do this. She described it as a necessary
step and is important for Alaska to take in that the founders
put it in the Constitution at the time. She offered that when
this nation was formed the states initially came together and
formed the Articles of Confederation. As it turns out, she
explained, the states retained too much power and within the
U.S. Constitution is the idea of a proper balance between state
and federal government. Issues occurred over the decades and
centuries, including the power to tax and once the federal
government held the purse strings it gained a lot of power. She
offered that the resolutions are not partisan as they are about
restoring the power between the state and federal government.
She noted there has been concern that the U.S. Constitution is a
sacred document so there has been apprehension about opening it
up and having a convention. She related that this is not a
constitution convention as it is a single amendment convention
and sideboards would prevent it from being any other topic so
the Constitution would not be unraveled.
2:47:10 PM
STEWART CRUGER, Staff, Representative Shelley Hughes, Alaska
State Legislature, said HJR 14 is the State of Alaska's call on
Congress for an amendment convention for the sole purpose of
sending the countermand amendment back to the states for
ratification as is written in the first Resolved. The second
Resolve states that the U.S. Congress will convene a convention
within 60 days after the day it receives the 34th call for that
convention from state legislatures. The third Resolve states
that this is a continuing application and it will remain with
Congress until the 34th application is received. The fourth
Resolve encourages legislatures of the other 49 states to pass a
similar resolution. With regard to HCR 4, Resolved one
authorizes the legislature to appoint and summon delegates for
the amendment convention. Resolved two gives the legislature
authority to decide the qualifications and total number of
delegates to send to the convention. Resolved three gives the
legislature the ability to add or remove delegates. Resolved
four provides parameters and instructions for the state's
delegates at the convention and prohibits delegates from voting
for any other amendment outside the countermand amendment at the
convention. Resolved five reserves the countermand amendment as
the only amendment for consideration for ratification by the
legislatures. Resolved six states that upon a call for a
convention by 34 states this resolved allows for establishing of
the delegate credential committee within the Alaska Legislature
with duties listed in Section (A) later in this document.
Specifically, the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall
appoint three members from the House, one being a minority
caucus member. The President of the Senate shall appoint three
members of the Senate, one being a minority member.
2:49:51 PM
MR. CRUGER pointed out that Resolved seven provides for the
replacement procedure for members of the delegate credential
committee. Resolved eight allows for a selection of co-chairs
of the delegate credential committee, one being from the House
and one from the Senate. Resolved nine establishes when the
delegate credential committee can meet. Resolved ten
acknowledges that the delegate credential committee will
continue until the first day of the thirtieth Alaska State
Legislature and also requests that it be reevaluated by
subsequent legislatures. Resolved eleven requests that the
delegate credential committee be considered for reestablishment
during the thirtieth Alaska State Legislature. Resolved twelve
provides for removal and replacement procedure for members of
the credential committee in that members are removed or replaced
by the presiding officer that appointed them. Resolved thirteen
provides for the duties of the delegate credential committee.
He advised that this is a majority vote on decisions, official
facilitator for the legislature, appointment of delegates,
provide a committee report on selected delegates, appoint a
chair and assistant chair of the delegation, properly vet and
confirm delegates, issue convention passes to delegates, notify
legislature of financial needs of the convention, administer
oaths to the delegates, alternates, chair, and assistant chair,
monitor activities of Alaska's delegation, submit quarterly
reports to the legislature on events, progress and
recommendations for the convention, and authority to recommend
removal of a delegate or alternate for approval by the
legislature. Resolved thirteen, Section B, provides for the
duties of the chair of Alaska's state delegation and the
president of the convention. He offered that the chair is
responsible for communicating with other state delegations to
open convention for business, identifying other legislatures
that have approved the delegate resolution, build consensus with
at least 26 state delegations to require that each state
delegation at the convention has only one vote, require a simple
majority vote at all roll calls, nominate convention officials,
require a quorum of 26 states to conduct business, build a
consensus of at least 26 states to support sending the
countermand amendment for ratification, work to conclude the
convention in 21 days or no longer than 180 days, nominate a
candidate for convention president from Alaska's delegation or
work to elect a president from delegate resolution state.
Resolve thirteen, Section B, Subsection J, under duties of the
Alaska delegation chair include supporting the following duties
of the convention president: securing a vote for this delegate
resolution to be the rules of order at the convention, focus on
the purpose of sending the countermand for ratification by the
states, request security measures as needed, oversee installment
of officers at the convention, establish convention agenda,
provide equal time for floor discussion for all states, prohibit
introduction of any other subject other than the countermand
amendment, call for a vote for sending countermand amendment to
the states, report to 50 state legislatures ...
2:53:38 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX asked Mr. Cruger to point out the highlights as
opposed to simply reading from the resolution.
MR. CRUGER stated that the above addresses the duties of the
president of the entire convention. Resolved thirteen, Section
C addresses the duties and responsibilities of the convention
delegates. Resolved thirteen, Section D addresses the duties
and responsibilities of delegate alternates. Resolved thirteen,
Section E provides the text of the countermand amendment. He
advised that Mike Schechter, from the Department of Law Charles
Kaeprowiez, from Citizens Initiatives, on line for questions.
CHAIR LEDOUX opened public testimony
2:55:09 PM
CHARLES KACPROWICZ, Executive Director, Citizen Initiatives and
Countermand Amendment, said he has worked on amendments for the
U. S. Constitution either through Congress or state
legislatures, under Article V, for over 40 years. The
difference he proposes is the idea that state legislatures,
under Article V, are sovereign and are the final law in all
constitutional matters. He highlighted that [America] is a
constitutional republic which is why there is a constitution to
protect that. The U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 4,
guarantees every state a republican form of government which
means every state has one vote, regardless of the population
which goes into the convention as well. He highlighted that the
biggest problem existing during the constitution convention and
before deliberations started, was sovereignty. George Witt,
delegate, notable attorney, professor and distinguished
gentleman at the time, headed up a committee and put eight rules
together. He described an important rule being the
recommendation that each state has an equal vote, the convention
agreed and went forward as a republican form of convention. He
stated that this issue has to be settled at every Article V
Convention, and noted that currently there could be 534
politically charged delegates. He pointed out that the states
will probably be allotted the same number of representatives the
states have in Congress. He said the point to address here is
to ascertain that sovereignty is retained by state legislatures
as sovereignty trumps legal precedent, convention experience,
historical events, and is the one thing the legislatures must
not advocate as if they do, they will not get it back. He
stated that every Article V Convention has to be protected so
rather than letting the 534 delegates decide the matter, the
state legislatures are the deliberative body in deciding matters
related to the states including how to use Article V. He
related that as the deliberative body, the legislature
determines what these delegates do at the convention as they are
ambassadors and not free agents. As a result, he remarked, the
outcome of that convention will be successful and will be
completed in approximately seven days.
3:01:03 PM
MR. KACPROWICZ advised that the amendment itself will allow the
State of Alaska to address some of the most critical issues it
has to currently deal with. He pointed out that Nevada has
approximately 82 percent of its land controlled by the federal
government and Alaska has approximately 67 percent. He reminded
the committee Alaska recently received an Executive Order
locking up more land and preventing Alaska from using the land
for whatever purposes it chooses. The Countermand Amendment can
address that issue as there are 38 energy producing states and
only 30 Countermand Amendments are necessary. Should Alaska
decide to countermand a particular EPA, or BLM ruling, it would
send it to the appropriate federal agencies together with an
invitation to the other 49 states inviting them to countermand
the same law. He opined that Alaska will more than likely get
the 30 states necessary just on the issue of energy. As a
result, it will put the state legislatures in a respected role
by the federal government, he explained.
3:02:42 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX closed public testimony after ascertaining no one
further wished to testify.
3:03:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN said the idea of trying to make it the
framework in which states can take up certain acts of Congress
may have some validity, but advised that this proposal, unless
it was modified, probably goes too far. For example, page 11,
on CSHCR 4, the provisions allowing a state's vote to overturn a
judicial decision as well as the U.S. Senate action approving a
treaty are both going farther than is appropriate in terms of a
state's role in America's constitutional democracy. He
described it as a positive idea that needs refining before it is
ready for prime time.
3:04:09 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER stated that generally that this is a good
effort and there are many Article V's out there with low risk to
the Alaska State Legislature. He referred to the Article V
effort passed last year on the balanced budget amendment that 4
states have now joined and that the effort takes time. He
explained that he has been involved with the Assembly of State
Legislators which is a national group of legislators working on
approximately the same thing as the countermand process, but the
effort there is to attempt to come up with the rules and agenda
for the first convention. He pointed out that there are several
Article V's out there, and they all help Alaska because they are
raising awareness that states have the option of using Article
V, which was intended for states to use.
3:05:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to report CSHJR 14(STA) out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHJR 14(STA) moved out
of the House Judiciary Standing Committee.
3:05:59 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 3:05 to 3:08 p.m.
3:08:45 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to report CSHCR 4 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes. There being no objection, CSHCR 4 moved out of the House
Judiciary Standing Committee.
3:09:17 PM