Legislature(1995 - 1996)
06/06/1996 11:23 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 1001(FIN)
An Act making appropriations relating to fire
suppression, cleanup, and response and to disaster
relief; and providing for an effective date.
Discussion was had with Nancy Slagle and Nico Bus. An
amendment by Senator Sharp reduced disaster relief
funding in Sec. 3 to $100.0. SCS CSHB 1001 (Fin) was
then REPORTED OUT of committee with a unanimous "do
pass" recommendation.
Co-chairman Halford directed that CSHB 1001 (Fin) be brought
on for discussion and explained that it contains fire
response and disaster portions of legislation earlier
transmitted to the House. He noted that numbers within CSHB
1001 (Fin) are the same as in the other legislation, and he
asked that the administration provide an update.
NANCY SLAGLE, Director of Budget Review, Office of
Management and Budget, came before committee. She explained
that the bill contains estimates of anticipated fire costs
as of two days ago. Since that time, the Big Lake (Miller
Reach) fire has jumped several roads and expanded to over
37,500 square acres. The estimate of the number of homes
destroyed ranges from 100 to 200. There has been no
opportunity to conduct an assessment to determine the extent
of damages. It is anticipated that will occur tomorrow when
borough, state, and FEMA representatives are in the area.
Estimates developed by the Dept. of Natural Resources
indicate need for double the amount originally anticipated,
due to the extent of the fire and the way it is traveling.
(Senator Phillips arrived at this time.)
The state has received approval from FEMA for assistance in
dealing with the fire and anticipates a 70/30 split between
federal and state governments. The state is estimating a
$20 to $25 million need.
Ms. Slagle attested to need to put six teams on the fire at
Central in an effort to control it. Because of ongoing
fires that do not fall under FEMA assistance, the
administration will need approximately $10 million in
general funds and $15 million in federal moneys. That is
the Dept. of Natural Resources' portion.
Ms. Slagle reiterated that since an assessment has not yet
been made, impact upon the Dept. of Military & Veterans
Affairs is unknown. Numbers in that area have thus not been
updated.
At the request of Senator Rieger, Ms. Slagle reiterated need
for $10 million in general funds and $15 million in federal
moneys. She explained that the foregoing does not reflect a
70/30 split because the state is dealing with other fires
that do not come under FEMA assistance. She reiterated need
to deal with other fires and again cited the fire at
Central.
Co-chairman Halford voiced his understanding that emergency
fire suppression language provides authority to expend
moneys without appropriation. Ms. Slagle concurred. She
acknowledged that as part of the disaster declaration
process the administration has ability to access other
appropriations if the legislature is not available to
provide supplemental funding. In the past the
administration has established an agreement that utilizes
anticipated lapse funding to ensure an appropriation to
continue the effort and pay fire fighters. That is how the
administration deals with the situation during the interim.
Co-chairman Halford advised that the legislation most likely
to pass (SB 1005) contains numbers from two days ago. He
acknowledged that the chance of CSHB 1001 (Fin) being acted
upon, as well, may be difficult. He said it is appropriate
to amend the House bill to provide updated numbers but
reiterated that the bill might not be timely. The Co-
chairman remarked that SB 1005, with its $14 million,
combined with general authority for emergency expenditure
without appropriation provides tools for immediate response.
Supplementals would then have to be reviewed at a later
time. Ms. Slagle agreed. She attested to an understanding
of the process and timing involved and advised that the
administration felt it important to come forward with
updated numbers.
Co-chairman Halford observed that funding provided to the
municipality is "now way under what their unrefunded costs
are going to be . . . ." He then suggested that the
committee incorporate current estimates, with the
recognition that HB 1001 may not be a vehicle that proceeds.
Co-chairman Halford next explained that if CSHB 1001 (Fin)
remains as is, Secs. 1 and 2 would add another $5 million in
both general and federal funds; an additional $200.0 to the
Matanuska-Susitna Borough; and $4 million in disaster relief
(Sec. 3) to SB 1005. He then questioned whether the
committee wished to add funding for disaster relief at this
time. He suggested that the bill be passed from committee
with Secs. 1 and 2 in tact and assume that both bills will
pass. Ms. Slagle added that the administration has the
ability to go to the Legislative Budget and Audit Committee
for additional federal receipt authority.
Senator Sharp then MOVED to delete Sec. 3. Co-chairman
Halford called for objections. No objection having been
raised, Sec. 3 was DELETED* from the bill. (*See page 6, of
these minutes for subsequent action rescinding deletion.)
Senator Randy Phillips MOVED for passage of SCS CSHB 1001
(Fin) with individual recommendations. Co-chairman Halford
called for objections. Senator Rieger voiced his
recollection that the split on the Koyukuk floor was greater
than 70/30. He then asked why the split in federal and
state funding is not higher for the present fire. Co-
chairman Halford explained that the appropriation within
Sec. 1 applies to "the actual fire fighting side." Moneys
for the Koyukuk flood related to disaster relief. That
split was 85/15--much higher than in the present situation.
(Senators Donley and Zharoff arrived at this time.)
Ms. Slagle further explained that the state has received
FEMA funding, based on the 70/30 split, for fire fighting.
The administration is also requesting a disaster declaration
from President Clinton which would access additional funding
similar to that received for the Koyukuk flood. That
provides moneys for temporary housing, individual family
grants, public assistance, etc. It also entails a different
split in funding. The administration is in the process of
putting that request together for transmittal to Washington,
D.C. Approval would change the split to 75/25.
In the case of the Koyukuk flood, because of the extent of
damages and the size of the disaster, the state was able to
obtain a better split between federal and state support.
Under FEMA provisions, if fire fighting costs for the year
exceed $30 million, the federal government will "actually
kick in 100 percent." There is thus a point in time when
the federal government will provide additional funding due
to the size and extent of the disaster.
Senator Rieger asked if FEMA funding would provide 100
percent in excess of $30 million or apply retroactively.
Ms. Slagle responded, "for the whole . . . for this
particular fire." The Senator noted that damage estimates
are between $20 and $30 million at the present time. Ms.
Slagle concurred, advising of estimates of approximately $22
million. The administration is hoping damages will not be
greater than that.
Senator Rieger asked what the administration would do with
the general funds if damages reach beyond $30 million, and
the federal government covers the entire amount. Ms. Slagle
said general fund dollars would be used for fires not
covered by FEMA. Remaining funds would then lapse. The
funds would not be used for other purposes. Senator Rieger
voiced need for "some kind of legislative review" and cited
review by Legislative Budget and Audit. He voiced
discomfort over appropriation of $10 million when the cost
may be covered by the federal government and reiterated need
for legislative involvement. Ms. Slagle stressed that the
administration would keep the legislature updated. She
advised that she would be attending the June 24 LBA meeting
and would provide an update at that time. Senator Phillips
concurred that the legislature could ask that the
administration update LBA at monthly meetings during the
interim.
Co-chairman Halford acknowledged need for some kind of
statement within appropriation language. He expressed
concern that damages from the present MatSu fire would reach
$30 million, and the legislature will have over-
appropriated. Senator Rieger suggested that language could
designate expenditure for a particular named fire. Ms.
Slagle reiterated that general funds are slated to deal with
other ongoing fires as well as fires that might occur
throughout the year. Members acknowledged the driest year
in two decades and potential for a bad year for fires.
NICO BUS, Acting Director, Administrative Services, Dept. of
Natural Resources, came before committee. He advised that
of damages from the Miller Reach fire, which have reached
$22 million, $15 million (70 percent) would be federal and
the state portion would total $7 million. The remaining $3
million from the $10 million appropriation would have to
cover the remainder of the fire season. Mr. Bus
acknowledged that language could be added to the
appropriation to require Miller Reach reimbursement for
general funds to return to the treasury. All figures are
merely estimates at this time.
Senator Zharoff attested to the devastating nature of the
fire and loss of homes and property by families. He
questioned committee concern that fire suppression funding
might be spent for other purposes and spoke against attempts
to tie the hands of the administration. Co-chairman Halford
pointed out that the administration has testified that there
is no limit to the amount of money it can spend, without an
appropriation, under existing emergency conditions. With
one-third of the nation's top task force headed to the
Miller Reach fire, the concern is that if the weather does
not change, the fire cannot be stopped.
Senator Rieger stressed that two points need to be made:
1. No one is suggesting that money be held back.
2. Debate relates to how the money is appropriated.
The proposed approach recently led to a Legislative Budget
and Audit report on the $70 Koyukuk flood. He stressed need
for good control of finances in management of disasters.
The legislature also has a fiduciary responsibility to
appropriate moneys properly.
Co-chairman Halford noted that the bill presently consists
of Secs. 1 and 2. He then queried members regarding an
amendment and voiced need to move the bill. Senator
Phillips suggested that the bill be moved, as is, with the
understanding that the administration would come before
Legislative Budget and Audit with updates on the situation.
Mr. Bus said the department could make update to LBA or
provide a statement of intent in writing.
Senator Sharp voiced his understanding that the $10 million
appropriation within Sec. 1 would be controlled by the Dept.
of Natural Resources which has long-standing procedures for
monitoring and detailing costs. He remarked that because of
that, the state should not encounter a situation similar to
the Koyukuk flood which was administered by the Dept. of
Military & Veterans Affairs. He said he was comfortable
with Legislative Budget and Audit review.
Co-chairman Halford restated the motion for movement of SCS
CSHB 1001 (Fin) with individual recommendations. Senator
Phillips added the understanding that the administration
would come before Legislative Budget and Audit to provide a
detailed accounting. No objection having been raised, SCS
CSHB 1001 (Fin) was REPORTED OUT* of committee with a
unanimous "do pass" recommendation. (*See following
rescinding action.)
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 11:55 a.m.
RECONVENE
Co-chairman Halford reconvened the meeting at approximately
11:57 a.m. He noted that the title of CSHB 1001 (Fin)
contains a reference to disaster relief funding which was
removed from SCS CSHB 1001 (Fin) by deletion of Sec. 3 from
the House bill. To avoid need for a title change and an
accompanying resolution at this point in the special
session, the Co-chairman suggested that the bill contain a
nominal appropriation to disaster relief. Senator Sharp
MOVED to bring CSHB 1001 (Fin) back before committee. No
objection having been raised, it was so ordered. Senator
Rieger then MOVED to rescind committee action reporting SCS
CSHB 1001 (Fin) from committee. No objection having been
raised, committee action reporting SCS CSHB 1001 (Fin) from
committee was rescinded. Senator Sharp MOVED to amend his
motion for deletion of Sec. 3 and instead fund disaster
relief at $100.0. No objection having been raised, the
motion carried and Sec. 3 was funded at $100.0. Co-chairman
Frank MOVED for passage of SCS CSHB 1001 (Fin). No
objection having been raised, SCS CSHB 1001 (Fin) was
REPORTED OUT of committee with a unanimous "do pass"
recommendation.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 12:00 noon.
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