Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/12/1996 08:10 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Number 0344
HB 438 - RECORDING: INDEX DOCUMENTS BY LOCATION
CHAIR JAMES announced that the next order of business to come
before the House State Affairs Committee was HOUSE BILL NO. 438 "An
Act relating to the indexing of documents recorded in the state
recorder's offices; and providing for an effective date." Chair
James called on the bill's sponsor, Representative Tom Brice.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE explained that the mining industry has
historically used a cardex system to record information relating to
location of land claims. The state has stopped funding this
system, which has created an information void. HB 438 would add
the word "location" into information required to be maintained by
the Recorder's Office in its index system. He invited questions
from the committee.
Number 0463
SHARON YOUNG, State Recorder, Department of Natural Resources,
testified on behalf of the Department of Natural Resources. She
stated that the recorder's office has historically maintained only
a grantor/grantee index, as mandated by statute. As a courtesy,
the office has attempted to maintain a location index, which is not
mandated. As a result, location information within the system is
incomplete. Within the past year, the recorder's office has
attempted to index all locations. Because the volume levels are
low, they have been able to do this without additional funding.
She explained that mandating the location index would provide a
more comprehensive and complete public record, not only for the
mining community, but for other individuals who use the system.
She invited questions from the committee.
Number 0580
CHAIR JAMES asked if Ms. Young wished to testify regarding the
fiscal note.
MS. YOUNG responded that the fiscal note anticipates a 5 percent
annual volume increase, after FY 97. The proposed funding would be
necessary to support that volume level.
Number 0656
CHAIR JAMES replied that there were two fiscal notes. The first,
regarding the information resource management component, shows a
personal services item of $70 thousand in FY 97. The recorder's
office Uniform Commercial Code component shows no personal services
in FY 97, but begins in FY 98, and continues. She noted the
increases appeared to cover only regular merit and step increases,
and did not add additional positions.
Number 0699
MS. YOUNG concurred. She stated the increases were based on
current years' salaries, and assume a 5 percent growth in volume.
She noted that a representative of the Information Services section
was also present to testify.
CHAIR JAMES reiterated her understanding that the information has
always been provided as a courtesy by the recorder's office, and
not by the Information Services section.
Number 0740
MS. YOUNG agreed. She explained that the testimony of the Land
Records Information Section would clarify their fiscal note, which
addresses a broader scope of integrating the information with other
database information within the department.
Number 0762
CHAIR JAMES asked if the information would still be kept on a
cardex system.
MS. YOUNG replied that the recorder's office would continue to
index the information as it has in the past. She explained that
the information services section would provide an interface with
other information.
Number 0802
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked how the cost increases were
calculated.
MS. YOUNG replied that the increase was based on average recording
volumes. A document increase of about 4,500 substantiates an
additional full-time position. She further explained that
statewide volume has averaged about 200,000 documents per year, and
a 5 percent increase is anticipated.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN then asked why twice as many full-time
employees would be required.
Number 0891
MS. YOUNG replied she was not sure she understood the question.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN responded that he was looking at positions, on
the fiscal note.
MS. YOUNG explained that the $70 thousand need in personal services
would cover a five percent volume growth, which would represent one
full-time and one part-time position. In the next year, a
subsequent 5 percent growth would result in a dollar need of $81
thousand. The positions would increase to two full-time.
Number 0941
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN then asked about the figures for FY 98 and FY
01.
MS. YOUNG explained that the figures are not finite.
CHAIR JAMES expressed her opinion that the figures did not
calculate correctly. She stated that the fiscal note would be
handled by the Finance Committee, but that it was a very important
component of the bill.
Number 1028
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN mentioned that he had noticed no finance
committee referral on the bill.
CHAIR JAMES replied that there would have to be a finance referral,
since there was a fiscal note.
Number 1054
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER suggested the Clerk's office should be
notified the bill needs a referral to House Finance, and that the
House State Affairs Committee has a concern over the validity of
the fiscal note.
Number 1071
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN noted the bill's passage hinges on the fiscal
note.
CHAIR JAMES stated she did not want a fiscal note to kill the bill.
Number 1110
CHAIR JAMES invited Richard McMahon to testify.
RICHARD MCMAHON, Chief, Land Records Information Section,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), stated he had participated
in the cardex meetings mentioned earlier. He explained the DNR's
proposal would not replace the cardex system. Rather, the
objective is to expand the indexing, so that recorded documents can
be located by location. The DNR's system contains all mining
records, as well as many others. The department also has access to
federal records, through the Bureau of Land Management (BLM)
system. He stated that the DNR would like to institute an index
system using a common key approach. The fiscal note would provide
one computer programming position for twelve months, as well as
funding to pay for Department of Administration mainframe services.
Number 1223
CHAIR JAMES responded she assumed some computer programming would
be needed, which was why she had asked the questions of the
previous witness.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness, via teleconference, in
Fairbanks.
Number 1248
MARY NORDALE stated she would testify in support of HB 438. She
explained she was a member of the cardex committee, chaired by Earl
Beistline, who had authorized her to speak on his behalf. She
emphasized that HB 438 is an extremely important bill for the
mining industry, as well as other resource based industries. The
cardex system which has always been used is a good one, and works
well, but is available only in Fairbanks. People wanting to do
research in the system have had to come to Fairbanks. This has
been a subject of concern to the mining industry statewide. Ms.
Nordale pointed out that, as far as the fiscal note is concerned,
the recorder's office does collect fees for documents recorded, and
in this way actually generates revenue.
Number 1471
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN mentioned the receipts generated by the
recorder's office. He asked if there was a way to find out if the
receipts would bring in enough revenue to offset the fiscal note.
CHAIR JAMES responded that, as the witness explained, the fee for
services in the recording office provides more money than the
office spends. She explained that the money goes into the general
fund, so the money received would not actually offset the fiscal
note.
Number 1545
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if going to a digital system would result
in enough increased revenue to offset the cost of the new system.
CHAIR JAMES replied she didn't think there would be fees charged
for using the system. The fees are only charged for recording
documents.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER commented that the fiscal note from the
recorder's office does contain an offset of revenue. However, the
fiscal note from information resources management has $90 thousand
that is not offset. Therefore, the fiscal impact to the budget
would be $90 thousand in FY 97, and an additional ten thousand in
other years.
CHAIR JAMES asked Ms. Young to respond to the question regarding
fees charged for using the information.
Number 1635
MS. YOUNG responded that, yes, the fees are generated only by
recording of documents. Access to the documents is free.
CHAIR JAMES asked if it would be possible for the information to be
tallied and available statewide via computer.
Number 1692
MR. MCMAHON stated that the index system would be able to identify
recorded documents, and provide the book and page records, so that
the documents could be accessed in the recorder's office. The
proposed system would not provide electronic images of the
documents themselves. He explained that in the cardex meetings,
one consultant stated that research which would take one to two
hours using the cardex system, could take three to five days
looking by book and page in the recorder's office.
Number 1750
CHAIR JAMES responded that she didn't visualize the system
providing electronic images of the documents. She stated that
being able to identify an area of the state, and discover the
ownership and status of the land, is extremely important to
resource development.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if the recorder's office had the
authority to charge the public for accessing the information.
Number 1810
MR. MCMAHON replied that the authority to institute fee schedules
was in place.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if it was correct that receipts
currently exceed the cost of running the recorder's office.
MS. YOUNG replied, yes, that was true.
Number 1866
MS. NORDALE stated the mining community in Fairbanks has always
supported fees for recording of required documents.
CHAIR JAMES reiterated her belief that the House State Affairs
Committee should not be arguing over fiscal notes. She emphasized
that she doesn't want to see the bill killed because of the fiscal
note.
Number 1993
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN stated he approved of the intent of the
bill, but questioned if a statute was actually required. Couldn't
the intent be accomplished through administrative measures?
CHAIR JAMES responded that funds for this process had been taken
out of the budget, because it was not a statutory requirement. She
again emphasized the information is a valuable tool for the mining
community, and should be available statewide. Therefore, the bill
is needed to make collecting of this information a statutory
requirement. She stated she wanted to be sure she had enough
information to support the issue in the budget process, and she
appreciated the information provided.
Number 2067
REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS made a motion to pass HB 438 with
accompanying fiscal note and individual recommendations out of the
House State Affairs Committee, with a note regarding the validity
of the fiscal note. There being no objection, HB 438 was passed
out of the House State Affairs Committee.
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