03/01/2018 03:15 PM House STATE AFFAIRS

             HB 400-FEES FOR FIRE PREVENTION MEASURES                                                                       
                                                                                                                              
3:19:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR LEDOUX  announced that  the first  order of  business                                                               
would be HOUSE  BILL NO. 400, "An Act relating  to the collection                                                               
of  fees  by  the  Department  of  Public  Safety  for  fire  and                                                               
explosion prevention and safety services."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:19:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CATHY  SCHLINGHEYDE,   Staff,  Representative   Jonathan  Kreiss-                                                               
Tomkins,  Alaska State  Legislature,  relayed  that the  proposed                                                               
legislation relates  to fees for  fire prevention measures.   She                                                               
explained that  currently the  Division of  Fire and  Life Safety                                                               
(DFLS) [Department of  Public Safety (DPS)] can  collect fees for                                                               
building  plan checks  but not  for fire  inspections or  for the                                                               
permit   programs   for   installing   fire   systems   or   fire                                                               
extinguishers.  The proposed  legislation would allow regulations                                                               
to be drafted for the collection of those fees.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHLINGHEYDE relayed that Section 1  of HB 400 [page 1, lines                                                               
5-9] would give  DFLS the authority to collect  the fees; Section                                                               
2 [page 1,  lines 11-13] would include the collection  of fees in                                                               
the DFLS budget receipt authority.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHLINGHEYDE  explained that the  fiscal note for HB  400 was                                                               
received  just  prior  to  the committee  meeting;  it  would  be                                                               
distributed to  committee members  after the meeting.   It  is an                                                               
indeterminate fiscal note; it is  estimated that the program will                                                               
bring in $84,000 per year.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:21:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP requested  and received  clarification that                                                               
the fiscal note would be forthcoming.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:21:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  asked whether the  fees would apply  only to                                                               
commercial buildings.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:21:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID TYLER,  Director State Fire  Marshal, Division of  Fire and                                                               
Life Safety  (DFLS), Department of Public  Safety (DPS), answered                                                               
that  the   proposed  legislation   would  apply   to  commercial                                                               
buildings -  assemblies, industrial, educational,  hospitals, and                                                               
such.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL mentioned that  he has a commercial building,                                                               
which is occasionally  inspected by the fire marshall.   He asked                                                               
whether  under  HB  400,  he  would be  charged  a  fee  for  the                                                               
inspection in the future.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. TYLER replied yes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  asked whether there would  be other services                                                               
associated with  the fee under HB  400, and what the  costs would                                                               
be for the services.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. TYLER answered that he does  not know the costs yet; research                                                               
is  needed   to  ensure  the   fees  are  fair,   equitable,  and                                                               
affordable.    He  said  that   the  research  will  include  the                                                               
practices in cities  like Fairbanks and Anchorage, as  well as in                                                               
other states.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. TYLER  relayed that  fees would  include permitting  for fire                                                               
extinguisher technicians and fire systems technicians.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:23:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP noted  from  the copy  of  the fiscal  note                                                               
circulated   by  Ms.   Schlingheyde  that   the  goal   is  1,500                                                               
inspections per year but right now  500 is more likely.  He asked                                                               
whether DFLS is currently performing  500 inspections per year or                                                               
if that is a goal.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. TYLER responded that currently DFLS is doing between 200 and                                                                
300 inspections per year.  Just recently all the deputy fire                                                                    
marshal positions have been filled; therefore, DFLS will be                                                                     
capable of performing more inspections.  He stated that what                                                                    
prompted the introduction of the proposed legislation was the                                                                   
need for travel funds to do inspections in rural areas.  He                                                                     
maintained that the inspections should be done every two years;                                                                 
however, some have not been inspected for four to eight years                                                                   
and longer.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP  offered that  the inspections  are required                                                               
by statute  and adopted  regulations.   He maintained  that there                                                               
are private fire service companies  that charge extinguishers and                                                               
prove them.   He mentioned that  DFLS also reviews plans  for new                                                               
construction  and  fire  systems.   He  asked  whether  utilizing                                                               
private companies  [for inspections]  would be a  better process,                                                               
like  how  boiler  system  inspections   are  accomplished.    He                                                               
questioned why DPS  must do it and mentioned that  use of private                                                               
companies  provides the  added benefit  of the  company servicing                                                               
and repairing the equipment if needed.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. TYLER responded that DFLS  does more than just fire sprinkler                                                               
and fire  alarm system inspections;  the fire marshals  check the                                                               
egress  for  electrical  hazards  and verify  whether  the  alarm                                                               
systems and sprinklers are up to date.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KNOPP  asked  for   confirmation  that  the  DFLS                                                               
process goes  beyond checking the  fire extinguisher  systems and                                                               
the fire  suppression systems.   He suggested  that under  HB 400                                                               
the   fee-for-service  inspection   would   be   a  broad   range                                                               
inspection.    He   stated  that  his  misgiving   was  that  the                                                               
inspections would result only in citations to organizations.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TYLER  responded  that  DFLS  performs  the  inspections  as                                                               
thoroughly  as possible.   He  relayed that  staff is  looking at                                                               
other systems and measures, which  may help reduce the cost; DFLS                                                               
is looking at  shared databases with those who  do maintenance on                                                               
the alarm  systems and suppression  systems.  He stated  that the                                                               
goal of  DFLS staff is to  keep the buildings safe  while keeping                                                               
in mind  that the business owners  need to stay in  business.  He                                                               
maintained that what  DFLS does is designed not to  be onerous on                                                               
the owners.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:28:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK expressed  his understanding  that the  life                                                               
safety  plan checks  are  currently occurring,  and  no fess  are                                                               
being  charged.   He  suggested  that  it  appears that  DFLS  is                                                               
currently allowed to set fees under statute.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. TYLER replied that DFLS may  charge fees for plan reviews for                                                               
new construction, new additions,  and large-scale remodeling.  He                                                               
stated that  it does not  have authority  to charge for  the fire                                                               
inspections, as it is a different operation entirely.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  cited page  1, lines 5-7,  of HB  400, which                                                               
read,  "The  commissioner  of  public  safety  may  establish  by                                                               
regulation, and  the department may  charge, reasonable  fees for                                                               
fire and life safety plan checks";  he asked if he was correct in                                                               
his understanding  that the statute  refers to  initial occupancy                                                               
certification.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. TYLER answered, that's correct.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:29:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH expressed  his  appreciation  for the  work                                                               
done by DFLS.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:30:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX announced that HB 400 would be held over.