Legislature(2001 - 2002)
04/30/2002 01:36 PM Senate TRA
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 397-EXEMPTIONS FROM DRIVER'S LICENSING
CHAIRMAN COWDERY announced CSHB 397(STA) to be up for
consideration.
SENATOR WARD moved to pass CSHB 397(STA) from committee.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY objected and asked the sponsor if he had worked
out the problems from the previous meeting with Senator Wilken.
REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING, sponsor of HB 397 said he didn't
think they had worked out the problems, although they had a
meeting.
SENATOR WARD moved to withdraw his motion and asked for unanimous
consent. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING explained that CSHB 397(STA) removes the
license requirement for an off-road vehicle, which is defined as
snow machines, boats, ATVs, etc. Having a driver's license to
drive a car in a city street is not germane to driving an ATV or
snow machine.
4:10 p.m.
SENATOR WILKEN said he had the opportunity to ride his ski-doo
this weekend and went 85 mph. If this bill is passed, all proof
of responsibility and restrictions for a 13-year old to jump on
that machine and drive it will be gone. He would suggest that is
like giving 13 year olds a lethal weapon. It seems strange to him
that at 14, a license is required to operate an automobile, but
at 13, 14 or 15 no license is required to get on any snow machine
that will kill. According to testimony, there are 350 accidents
per year. He maintained, "This bill is a very dangerous bill.
This bill, should it go through, will kill kids and I just don't
think that's really what we want to do."
He said the committee is deliberating this bill because an
overzealous park ranger unadvisedly wrote a citation for a child
on a kiddi cat. He remarked, "We have taken that event and
changed it into what I consider to be a huge bill that once again
puts our youth at risk."
He suggested addressing the following issues:
· If the unlicensed operator is within reasonable proximity to
and under supervision of a licensed adult
· Damages or injuries caused as a result of an unlicensed
operator are the responsibility of the parent or the legal
guardian of the operator
· The legislation is effective upon approval of the SNOTRAC
safety course by the Alaska Department of Public Safety
· This issue will be reviewed in five years
He said the committee heard testimony that SNOWTRAC is developing
a safety program. He commented that if the licensing requirement
is lifted, there should at least be some place to send children
to get some level of training. He said without changes he remains
adamantly opposed to the bill.
SENATOR WARD said someone can cross a road, but if someone is
traveling from point A down a road to get to another snow mobile
trail, there is no local ordinance that says that is legal. Those
people are illegally going down that road. It's permissible to go
across a road. He also said that not everyone abuses the law and
in fact the ones that abuse it usually aren't kids.
SENATOR ELTON asked what the net effect of this amendment would
be on a youngster in Bush Alaska where they have no highway
system, and a snow machine is often used to get to school, do a
trap line, or go to a grandmother's house.
SENATOR WARD said the youngster would need to have an adult with
them.
SENATOR WILKEN said he wanted to go back to the issue of what
problem they are trying to solve. He stated:
This law has been on the books for decades. Suddenly it
rises because of some incident - it rises to some
notoriety… So we have an administrative problem that
we're going to take what I consider to be a very major
step that puts kids at risk.
SENATOR ELTON agreed with what Senator Wilken was saying and
tended to agree up to a point with what needs to be done and that
clearly there is a safety issue. In his mind there is a dramatic
difference between recreational use in areas where a snow machine
will be on a road system in which you have to obey the laws of
the land as written for operators of a motor vehicle. In some
areas of the state, mostly the Bush, having a snow machine isn't
a matter of choice, it's a matter of necessity for all ages of
users.
SENATOR WILKEN said they are not just talking about snow
machines, but ATVs, jet skis, watercraft, river boats, and
basically any propelled vehicle.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said he also thought that safety is a
concern. He suggested passing the bill to decriminalize the use
of off-road vehicles without a driver's license and next session
look at the suggestions from the SNOTRAC Board.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked if the people who make snow cats for kids
would be put out of business.
SENATOR WILKEN responded that Arctic Cat doesn't make them any
more, but Ski-doo does and they are limited to about 120 cc and
go about 8 mph. Those machines will still get produced and he
thought at 8 mph you're going to be within reasonable proximity
of your parent. He is bothered with the issue of the 13-year old.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING pointed out that a safe speed and safe
driving are still applicable whether there's a license law or
not.
4:25 p.m.
SENATOR WARD explained that his grandchildren have earned the
right to drive their off road vehicles and he thought there were
enough laws to take care of the situation exactly the way it is
and there is nothing they can legislate to stop a 13 year old
from going out of control. He thought they needed to enforce the
current laws.
MR. DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Public Safety,
said that the State Troopers are somewhat ambivalent about any
change in the law recognizing that they patrol a part of Alaska
that uses off road vehicles for their primary source for
transportation. Requiring a driver's license is not an
enforcement priority for them for a number of reasons. It is down
on the list of the seriousness of things. They are trying to deal
with other issues and with having enough staff to patrol. A snow
machine can outrun a car and they don't have very many snow
machine incidents.
SENATOR WILKEN asked how many citations had been written for kids
operating snow machines without driver's licenses.
MR. SMITH replied that it is extremely rare.
SENATOR WILKEN asked if he thought enforcement efforts would
increase or decrease if this law doesn't pass.
MR. SMITH replied that he would say [it would not change] given
their situation and the prioritization of their response.
SENATOR WARD pointed out that Senator Wilken said that Fairbanks
has an ordinance that allows snow mobilers to go down a road to
get from one trail to another, but he said it is impossible for a
local entity to adopt such an ordinance because it would be in
conflict with state law, which says you can go across a road in
order to get across it. There's nothing that says you can go down
a road to get to another trail. Otherwise you could use the
argument that you can drive from Willow to Big Lake.
MR. SMITH said he was quoting 13 AAC and the 90-degree crossing
roadways is what it refers to. People are not to travel the
roadways, but he is not prepared to comment more.
SENATOR WARD said the troopers in his area have told all
operators, whether of ATVs, snow machines or dirt bikes to stay
off the roadways.
SENATOR WARD said the in the northern part of Seldovia, most
people use ATVs and four-wheelers to get from house to house so,
so there is a conflict because kids are breaking the law now.
MR. FRANK SACCO, Chief, Surgery Service, Alaska Native Medical
Center, said he acted as director of the Trauma Service and had
been taking care of patients, a majority of whom are from the
Bush. He shares some of the concerns about the way the law is
written, but he thought they would be remiss if they didn't look
at the overall problems with snow machines and especially with
children. He said he sees about one child per month with a
serious head injury from riding a snow machine without a helmet.
He has never treated one who was wearing a helmet. He thought
they are the same as life preservers for kids on boats. He
strongly urged that the bill require the use of helmets for
children. He sees six-year olds driving four-year olds around on
ATVs and he thought there needs to be some laws about those
situations.
SENATOR WARD asked if passing a helmet law would stop the
irresponsible parents who were allowing a six-year old to drive a
four-wheeler.
MR. SACCO replied that he didn't think they could legislate
personal responsibility for everyone, but he thought a helmet law
for kids would increase usage of them.
SENATOR WARD asked if Mr. Sacco had asked any Native
organizations how they would feel about a helmet law.
MR. SACCO said he is speaking for the Alaska Native Medical Board
(ANPHB) and they support of taking measures for children.
MS. MARY LEEMHUIS, ANMC, said she does a lot of family teaching
and children come in with too many brain injuries. Most people
don't realize that it doesn't take a lot of speed to cause severe
injury to the brain and even death. A helmet would protect the
brain of a child. Any time the brain is knocked around it can
bleed and tear and that's what sometimes causes irreversible
damage.
TAPE 02-21, SIDE A
4:47 p.m.
MR. BILL REED, Providence Hospital surgeon, said that recent
patients who are involved in snow machine accidents are exposed
to much greater forces than they have ever seen before,
predominantly because of the speed involved. The velocity is what
determines the extent of the injury. In addition, the terrain
that people travel on in Alaska is much more difficult. He
stated:
The point we are trying to make here is that right now
the only law that controls children on snow machines
restricts people who are 16 that don't have a license.
Our concern is that this is a flawed law. It could be
improved upon and I think that Senator Wilken's
proposals go a long way to that improvement…
CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked what percentage of the patients are
adults.
MR. REED replied about 50% were over the age of 18.
SENATOR WARD asked if he was advocating a helmet law for people
under the age of 14.
MR. REED said in his opinion a helmet law is an important
consideration and that compensation for the victims of accidents
should be part of this too.
MR. STEVE TOWER, Orthopedic Surgeon, Alaska State Medical
Association, said he has 14 years of experience in medical
practice in Alaska. He told members:
The Alaska State Medical Association supports
legislation regarding snow machines and ATVs that
defines and enforces elements of safe machine
operation, defines and enforces appropriate training
and documentation of machine operators, would define
age restrictions for machine operators and define and
enforce safe machine operation in the presence of
pedestrians and supports mandatory use of appropriate
helmets by those 16 years of age or younger, either
operating these machines or transporting the machine.
The reason for this stance, which was passed
overwhelming by the delegates of the Alaska State
Medical Association, is the huge mass of trauma grief
we're seeing on an annual basis, which is increasing at
a rate of 10% a year. You all should know the scope of
the problem. This is the second leading cause of death
and injury in our children age 10 to 14. These machines
are known in Alaska to be ten times more hazardous to
operate than a road vehicle. I congratulate Senate Ward
with being able to sit there without the state of
nervous anxiety while a seven-year old operates one
without adult supervision. I think that's absolutely
idiotic and the data supports me there.
We know these machines kill 30 to 50 Alaskans per year.
They hospitalize 300 to 400 Alaskans a year. This
consumes $2,000 to $3,000 days per year to treat the
injuries, most cost of which is borne by the state. One
quarter of those killed or hospitalized are minors. A
quarter of those hospitalized are brain injured and
this is the main driver of long-term medical expense.
For a brain-injured patient, only a fraction of medical
and social expense is derived in the acute
hospitalization and about 8 to 10 times that initial
expense is extracted from society at a later date. Only
a small fraction of these people are ever employable
and in many of these families, a family member has to
quit work to care for them at home. It's for these
reasons the State Medical Society is vehemently opposed
to HB 397. This is an idiotic piece of legislation,
which was a hip shot and a problem that doesn't exist…
SENATOR WARD asked what he was advocating for.
MR. REED replied that he wanted a mandatory helmet law for people
16-years old or younger if they operate or transport snow
machines and ATVs.
SENATOR WARD said he wasn't ready to pass a law like that today.
He also thanked him for his service to the community.
MR. CHARLES HOSACK, Deputy Director, Division of Motor Vehicles
(DMV), said he would answer questions.
SENATOR WARD asked if the DMV had a position on mandating that
everyone under the age of 16 wear a helmet.
MR. HOSACK replied no.
SENATOR WARD asked him to get one, please.
MR. SCOTT HAMANN, ABATE, said you can't make criminals of good
people and no one even knew this bill existed. He goes out every
weekend with about 30 kids from their church and has a good time
and they shouldn't be criminals. He said there are laws on the
book right now that deal with reckless endangerment and things
like that and troopers have the discretion to enforce them.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked if snow machine shops sell safety
accessories like helmets of different sizes.
MR. HAMANN replied they do. He thought the freedom of choice
works because about 75% people wear helmets on their own.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY commented that every shop he's been in tries to
sell him everything.
SENATOR WILKEN said he wanted the bill's sponsor to comment on
his four suggestions; the issue of safety and an alternative to
this disqualification and a way to review it in five years.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said those are not unimportant
considerations, but they should be looked at in different
legislation on safety. He appreciates Senator Wilken's concerns
and didn't want to down play the issue of safety.
SENATOR ELTON moved amendment 1, on page 2, line 7, which says a
person who is at least 16 years of age with a valid driver's
license from a jurisdiction other than Alaska can drive a motor
driven cycle with a provision that an Alaska driver's license for
driving a motor driven cycle be obtained by the end of a 90-day
period after entering the state.
He explained the purpose of the amendment is to address
situations in which a tourism entrepreneur in a community may
want to rent Vespas and mopeds to tourists. Language on page 1,
line 11 provides that a non-resident who is at least 16 years of
age and who has a valid driver's license issued by another
jurisdiction [may drive] a Vespa or moped, however an Alaska
driver's license must be obtained after a 90-day period of
entering the state. There is dispute among attorneys as to
whether or not that exemption applies to motor driven cycles. In
our state there is an M1 qualification that applies to
motorcycles and an M2 qualification, which applies to Vespa
scooter, mopeds, etc. In most states a driver's license allows
you to use a Vespa or a moped; in Alaska it doesn't. This would
provide that tourists who are getting off a ship and want to rent
one can do it. If they stay, they can't. This has nothing to do
with discussions on the bill so far, but it does provide an
economic opportunity for tourism entrepreneurs.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked if this would apply to dirt bikes or
motorcycles.
SENATOR ELTON replied that drivers would need an M1 qualification
on their driver's license. This only applies to the M2
qualification.
MR. MIKE KRIEBER, staff to Representative Kohring, explained that
HB 397 would exempt the license requirement for off road bikes.
SENATOR ELTON said there was a difference of opinion among
attorneys about whether language on page 1 of HB 397 would
actually allow his constituent to have the vehicle rental
business. He said this is a common business in other tourism
destinations and would provide an economic opportunity for a lot
of people.
SENATOR WARD asked if the City and Borough of Juneau can allow it
now without a state law.
SENATOR ELTON replied that state law prevails.
SENATOR WARD asked Mr. Hosack what he thought about the
amendment.
MR. HOSACK responded that they would have some concerns over it.
Anyone operating a motorcycle in Alaska is required to have a
motorcycle endorsement, either M1 or M2, the M2 is for small
bikes under 50 cc. He would be concerned if the amendment allows
non-residents a privilege that is not allowed to residents,
especially over the size of the power of a vehicle and in a
crowded city environment such as in some southeastern
communities. He opposed the amendment.
SENATOR ELTON said he could understand DMV's concern and stated:
I would just suggest that if other jurisdictions are
licensing people for the operation of these machines,
we ought to reciprocate unless they are going to be
here for longer than 90 days.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he would object to the amendment only because
he thought it was covered by language on paragraph 2 on line 11.
He is somewhat surprised by the response from DMV and thought
they might amend the legislation to include it.
SENATOR WARD said part of the problem is that some states provide
for a driver's license that authorizes a person to drive a
motorcycle, too. Those 16 year olds from those states who come to
Alaska would be able to rent a motorcycle, but Alaskan kids would
not because Alaska now has dual licensing. In Nevada one license
covers all, like it used to here.
MR. KRIEBER said that all ages are required to have an
endorsement for motorcycles.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what impact this would have on stand up two-
wheelers.
SENATOR ELTON replied that his understanding is that in the
legislation regarding personalized motor vehicles no license
would be required and the legislation limited the restrictions on
where they could go.
SENATOR WILKEN clarified that under regulation 2.455, section 3,
it is legal in Fairbanks to drive on a road if you're making your
way to a trail. The city has a prerogative to adopt that policy.
You can also ride on a bridge as long as you don't obstruct
traffic and obey traffic rules. He commented, "At least in this
city, they can have a 13-year old on a snow machine on a city
street going to the trail and it would be legal."
SENATOR WARD said that is in violation of state law.
SENATOR ELTON said that he was ready to vote on the amendment,
which inserted on page 2, after line 7, "a person who is at least
16 years of age with a valid driver's license."
SENATOR TAYLOR noted that this amendment shifts the intent of the
bill from just off road vehicles to on road.
SENATOR WARD added and to out-of-state people.
SENATOR TAYLOR said it didn't mention anything about the size of
the vehicle.
SENATOR ELTON responded that the definition of a motor driven
cycle is 50 cc's or less.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what something above 50 cc's called.
SENATOR ELTON replied that would be a motorcycle requiring an M1
qualification on the driver's license.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked if the amendment would require a title
change.
SENATOR ELTON replied that from opinions he has received it
works.
SENATOR WARD maintained his objection because it treats Alaska
citizens as second class people.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked for the vote. SENATORS TAYLOR, ELTON,
WILKEN voted in favor; SENATORS WARD and COWDERY voted against;
and Amendment 1 was adopted.
SENATOR WARD moved to pass SCS CSHB 397(TRA) from committee with
individual recommendations.
SENATOR WILKEN said it is a dangerous bill.
SENATOR ELTON agreed and thought they should spend a little bit
of time to figure out how to make it work so that it addresses
the safety issue and the different kinds of uses across the
state.
SENATOR TAYLOR said they wouldn't have this bill before them if
it weren't for a bizarre incident. He thought that there had been
great testimony, but it is a complicated subject. He said that
watercraft in the Bush is one of our single biggest killers.
There were no objections and it was so ordered. People will act
irresponsibly, but he asked how to regulate that. He remarked,
"We're killing more people on snow machines than we are by drunk
drivers and yet we're falling all over ourselves down here to
penalize and pass laws and do additional things on drunk
drivers."
CHAIRMAN COWDERY called for the vote. SENATORS ELTON, WARD,
TAYLOR, and COWDERY voted in favor; SENATOR WILKEN voted against
and the bill passed from committee as amended.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|