Legislature(2005 - 2006)HOUSE FINANCE 519
02/14/2006 01:30 PM House FINANCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB334 | |
| HB379 | |
| HB395 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 379 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 395 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | HB 334 | ||
HOUSE BILL NO. 395
An Act extending the period of the fire season.
KONRAD JACKSON, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE KURT OLSON, testified
that the spruce bark beetle kill on the Kenai Peninsula has
created an enormous amount of dry grass and that the dead
trees are susceptible to lightning strikes and man made
fires. The threat grows greater every year. Gradually over
the past several years, the climate in that area has been
warming earlier, leaving wild areas dry and increasing the
risk of major wildfires.
Mr. Jackson pointed out that the largest uncontained fire on
the Southern Kenai Peninsula was the Tracy Avenue fire,
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starting before May 1, 2005, threatening residents and
property. The fire might have been contained had the
equipment and personnel been available the first day it
started.
Mr. Jackson discussed that by moving the fire season start
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date to April 1, allows the State to become actively
involved in the fire prevention and control earlier in the
season.
2:58:45 PM
Representative Weyhrauch questioned if an extra month would
add additional expense and asked why the Legislature should
decide rather than the Commissioner for the Department of
Natural Resources.
Mr. Jackson reported that the intention was to provide the
Commissioner with the authority to bring people online
earlier. Representative Weyhrauch repeated his question.
Mr. Jackson noted it is at the request of the firefighters
to be able to be better prepared, earlier in the season. He
pointed out that in some instances, the State has to pay for
firefighters brought up from the lower '48.
Representative Foster commented that over 1,000 fires are
man made and questioned the relief that comes from arson
fires.
Mr. Jackson said that they had not considered arson set
fires. It is the early season fires that are the main
concern. He did not know how those fires were started, but
the intent is to guarantee that they are put out as quickly
as possible with available resources.
3:04:17 PM
Representative Holm voiced concern that bills like this set
the entire State into a poor situation. He asked if using
"fire season" would provide the Commissioner more power for
all the State. Mr. Jackson said it would. He added that
the Commissioner "may" designate periods other than the fire
season to prohibit the setting of fires that would unduly
increase fire danger. The legislation only puts it into
effect, one month earlier.
Representative Holm voiced concerned with the snow melting
at different times in various parts of the State, making the
fire potential different statewide. He believed that a
"blanket statement" could negatively affect different parts
of the State not at danger.
Mr. Jackson pointed out that currently, local authorities
determine the local danger. The local municipalities deter
regionally.
3:08:18 PM
CRAIG GOODRICH, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), FIRE CHIEF,
CITY OF ANCHORAGE, testified that the purpose of the
legislation requests to bring on air crews and part time
membership one month earlier. That action would help fight
campaign fires. He advised the structural component of
having the crews on one month earlier. Mr. Goodrich
stressed that this is a crucial issue. A campaign fire
costs the State about $1 million dollars per day. He noted
what the fiscal costs represent.
3:10:15 PM
Representative Weyhrauch inquired why the bill does not
indicate that the Commissioner designate the fire season
each year. Mr. Goodrich explained that would require a
guess to determine when the fires will occur. The intent is
to have the seasonal employees back to work and equipment
ready to go on fire alert. He emphasized that the training
and the equipment should be ready beforehand. It would be
better to move it up one month in statute.
Representative Weyhrauch reiterated why the first sentence
could not say that the Commissioner designates the first
day. Mr. Goodrich replied that language would ask the
Commissioner to imagine when to suspect a fire season
starts. There is an ecological change in conditions now
happening and the fire seasons are simply starting a month
earlier.
3:12:08 PM
Representative Kelly was concerned about the fiscal note
accompanying the bill and spoke to the relentless pressure
of employees in every field wanting to go to work earlier.
He asked about exchanging the month up front, giving up the
back end. Mr. Goodrich deferred to the Department of
Natural Resources. Representative Kelly reiterated his
concern with the fiscal note.
Co-Chair Meyer agreed.
3:14:27 PM
Representative Hawker disagreed with the manner in which the
bill had been presented. He requested to question Mr. Bus
from the Department.
SCOTT WALDEN, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), COORDINATOR,
KENAI PENINSULA BOROUGH EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT OFFICE, KENAI,
spoke in support of the legislation. He provided members a
handout of the major Kenai Peninsula fires since 1996+.
[Copy on File].
He stressed that prevention is very important. Mobilization
is a reaction and an expense itself. Having the resources
prepared comes with costs - it is proactive. He urged
support for the bill.
3:19:00 PM
Representative Kelly referenced the beetle kill spruce
concern and asked if that area was being logged to the
maximum. Mr. Walden did not know the logging level. There
is mitigation process preparation going on daily. They are
concentrating on the egress points, preparing for the large
fires. The Northern areas will benefit from passage of the
legislation. The staging areas are generally in Palmer and
Kenai. Having the operations one month early will benefit
the entire region.
Representative Kelly asked about the coordinated approach.
He thought it was "insane" not to maximize logging when it
serves as the base of the problem.
3:21:00 PM
Mr. Jackson advised that in the House Resource Committee,
testimony was heard indicating there has been a significant
amount of logging in the region, which has helped with the
mitigation effort. He understood that since the majority of
the trees have been dead for a long time, the value of that
timber is rapidly decreasing.
3:22:18 PM
NICO BUS, ACTING DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE
SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES, offered to answer
questions of the Committee.
He noted queries proposed by Representative Weyhrauch,
regarding the statutes, stating that the proposed date of
April through September has been offered because the
Department of Natural Resources prefers to provide fire
protection in a cost effective manner. The easiest way to
do that would be to provide long-term contracts. The
standard fire season used to be through late May to middle
July. The contracts were written and ready by that time;
however, currently, the aviation contracts are May through
September. As history has indicated and climates have
changed, the fires are happening earlier, which is part of
the reason for the fiscal request - $395 thousand dollars
contractual services. He addressed the five-year contracts.
Mr. Buss responded to comments made by Representative Kelly
regarding employee's pressure to come back to work earlier.
The Department only has 32 full time employees in the fire
preparedness program and 179 seasonal employees, which
remain four to seven months. The season is limited. He
recommended that what should be focused upon are determining
the needs and the best utilization of that staff. If the
State waits until May to train, they might not be ready or
fully trained when the fires start.
3:25:29 PM
Representative Hawker observed that the bill changes the
definition of "fire season". The only operative effect
defining fire season, the Commissioner may offer preventive
activities. He admitted that the additional authority
should provide that and understood that extending the date
was the entire consequence of the bill. Representative
Hawker asked if the State was mandated to have the
definition of the fire contracts in place during the fire
season. He believed there were two separate policy calls
being proposed and was troubled with the fiscal note. He
proposed it be zeroed out and run through the Department of
Natural Resources' subcommittee budget.
3:29:00 PM
Mr. Bus agreed it was a policy call, noting that the
Department was requesting the funding.
Co-Chair Meyer indicated he would not be "comfortable"
letting the bill leave Committee with the accompanying
fiscal note because of the impacts that would have on the
operating budget.
Representative Holm applauded Representative Hawker's
st
assessment. He asked why April 1 had been chosen. He
remembered the huge fire in Fairbanks, which the State did
not fight.
Mr. Bus responded that the proposed legislation would not
impact actually the fighting of fires.
3:31:32 PM
LYNN WILCOCK, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), CHIEF OF FIRE
AND AVIATION, DIVISION OF FORESTRY, DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL
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RESOURCES, ANCHORAGE, stated that the April 1 date was set
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because often fires begin by April 15.
Representative Holm commented on the nature of his "seasonal
business", proactively preparing in the autumn for the
upcoming spring. He pointed out he attempts to rehire as
many workers as possible from the previous year, so that
they do not need to be trained.
Mr. Wilcock said they do a lot of preparatory work in the
fall for fire fighting in the spring; however, pointed out
that they are subject to the national standard for fighting
fires, which calls for annual recertification for the safety
of the fire fighters. Also, there is extensive work, which
needs to be done in the spring for the fire-fighting season.
3:35:04 PM
Representative Joule inquired if there were other types of
trees being impacted by the spruce type beetle. Mr. Wilcock
replied that spruce bark beetle was the biggest influence.
He knew there were others, affecting hardwoods but not
nearly with the same impact. He mentioned the aspen fluff.
Representative Joule asked if there was an insect affecting
the birch trees. Mr. Wilcock replied that they have seen
birch pathogens, mostly defoliators, which cause leave fall
later in the summer. Typically, hardwood stands are not the
problem in Alaska. It is controlling grass in the spring
and later on in the summer, switching to black spruce.
3:37:14 PM
Representative Joule inquired if the State was experiencing
a reduced annual precipitation. Mr. Wilcock replied he is
not a climitologist. He indicated that two years of reduced
rainfall is not an indication of a climate change and he did
not know if there was a new trend.
Representative Kelly read from the bill regarding the
Commissioner making the declaration. He did not want to
experience pressure to bring employees on for longer periods
of time. He thought that the bill's language would provide
plenty of flexibility to the Commissioner.
3:39:31 PM
Mr. Wilcock responded that the Commissioner's authority was
exercised in 2003, the spring in which there were many
fires. A fire must occur before the Commissioner can
declare a fire season early-start. It only takes one full
day of sunshine before the fire season starts and that is
difficult to predict.
Representative Kelly commented, "flexibility is relative to
weather conditions". He recommended extending it back by a
couple weeks and leaving the budget alone.
3:43:00 PM
CHRIS MAISCH, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), DIRECTOR,
DIVISION OF FORESTRY, DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES,
ANCHORAGE, explained that the problem with the early fire
season indication is that the budget is in two different
BRU's. The suppression portion of the budget cannot be
accessed until there is activity. To bring people on early
in the season, they have to take the funds from the
preparedness part of the budget. That part of the budget is
currently funded at a level that allows bringing people back
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at the May 1 date. It is not simple because of the
financial resource restrictions.
Representative Kelly thought it could be moved up a couple
of weeks without further budget appropriation.
Co-Chair Meyer asked if the bill were passed, would it
guarantee no supplemental funding requests next year.
Representative Hawker commented that previous testimony
should not determine the budgeting process. He disagreed
about the need. He recommended structuring a budget without
the additional money and restructuring the BRU concerns. He
emphasized that pushing the date back does not have a fiscal
consequence.
3:46:45 PM
Representative Kerttula asked the cost per day of combating
a big fire. Mr. Bus responded anywhere between $1 thousand
- $260 thousand dollars per day.
Representative Kerttula questioned the problem between the
two BRU's with the Department's budget. Mr. Bus explained
that the history of the fire suppression budget is varied.
The Department has tried a new approach in which they
completely separate it from actually doing the suppression.
By doing that, they attempt to approximate what an average
fire year would cost. Then the preparedness aspect is used
for aviation contracts and seasonal staff. The proposed
legislation proposes to make those contracts longer. With
the current allocations, the Department cannot extend the
season.
3:49:01 PM
Representative Kerttula stated that the bottom line is that
the Department cannot take care of the fire season with the
current budget. Mr. Bus replied that without the seasonal
staff and the contracts, it becomes an efficiency issue.
The contracts need to be in place to make the process more
economical and is part of the speculation.
Co-Chair Meyer referenced all the "unknowns". He
recommended that the concerns be further discussed in the
Department of Natural Resources Subcommittee with
Representative Kelly, the Subcommittee Chair.
HB 395 was HELD in Committee for further discussion.
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