Legislature(2001 - 2002)
04/29/2002 04:00 PM Senate RES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
CSHB 382(FIN)-CLEANUP OF ILLEGAL DRUG SITES
REPRESENTATIVE GRETCHEN GUESS, sponsor of HB 382, said the intent
of this bill is to insure that illegal drug labs are cleaned up
before they are reoccupied. The State of Alaska has no guidelines
to insure that illegal drug labs, such as meth-amphetamine (meth)
labs, are cleaned up so two things tend to happen. Either a
residential owner wants to clean up the lab and doesn't know what
to do. In Juneau, when the owner of a house with a lab discovered
it, he gutted the house and burned the hazardous material. He
ended up getting fined. However, in most cases, a residential
owner will vacuum the carpet and re-rent the house but the
mercury, lead and other chemicals are still in the house and
cause health risks to the new tenants. This bill sets up testing
and decontamination criteria and guidelines for people to follow
to insure that a unit is fit for occupancy.
CSHB 382(FIN) insures that the occupant, as well as the
residential owner, is notified and that the owner signs a return
receipt. She wanted to insure that the Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC) had to provide the material to
the law enforcement agency.
She explained that the term "rent" is an interesting verb because
it could be used for the person who rents to someone else or the
person or to the person who pays to rent that property. Page 4,
line 13 says a person is in violation and guilty of a class A
misdemeanor if that person knowingly transfers, sells, leases or
rents a property to another person. They also added in an
affirmative defense, which was suggested by the legal drafter,
which requires notification to a property manager, if there is
one involved in the situation.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS said that this bill is supported by the
municipalities, troopers and police forces who often bust these
labs and then watch them be reoccupied knowing they haven't been
cleaned up.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked if they can usually find the owner of
the property and whether this generally happens with rental
properties.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS replied that currently, law enforcement
notifies the property owner of the bust on the property and
that's where the process stops. The property owner has nowhere to
go for clean-up information after he or she has been notified.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked what the next step is if they don't get
a return receipt from the person being notified.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS said that is a very good question and she
didn't know.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON said they could just be setting themselves up.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS said they would have to have something in
place if the certified mail or the return receipt does not come
back. She said law enforcement in Alaska has not had a problem
finding the property owner and getting the receipt back.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON said he didn't know if they should leave that
in there.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked about the incident in Juneau.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS explained that an out-of-state landlord came
to Juneau after being notified of a bust at his Juneau property
and tried to find some guidelines and help. He ended up gutting
the house and taking the contents to the dump but the dump
wouldn't take it because it was hazardous material. Not knowing
what to do, he burned it outside of his home and was fined. DEC
had no guidelines; no one had guidelines.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked who fined him.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS said she believed it was either the state or
the city. She wasn't sure.
SENATOR STEVENS asked who declared it hazardous waste.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS replied that law enforcement officers are
trained to do that, but in this case she thought the owner
disclosed it when he went to the dump.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to adopt the proposed committee substitute
to HB 382. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
LIEUTENANT JULIA GRIMES said she was available to answer
questions.
SENATOR STEVENS asked how often this occurs in a given year.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES replied that in 2000, 50 meth labs were
eradicated. Right now police officers are following federal
guidelines for notification of the property owner and placarding.
To her knowledge, the police haven't failed to find the property
owners in these cases.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if any statistical data is available to
determine how many repeat incidents happened at the same
location.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES said she didn't have that data, but she didn't
think that happens very often.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked if she thought the certified mail was a
good thing, a bad thing or over burdensome.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES responded that she didn't think it was
burdensome, since it's what they have been doing to comply with
federal law. They are assisted a lot by the Drug Enforcement
Agency (DEA).
SENATOR TAYLOR said his only concern is what enforcement tool
will be used by the department when the owner fails, within four
days, to remove the occupants, secure the property or do any
testing.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS responded that as long as they do not try to
re-rent a unit or try to sell it without disclosure, there is
none. If the owner chooses not to clean it up, that's okay; they
just can't reoccupy it. The guidelines solely apply to
reoccupying the property.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what would happen if an owner reoccupies it.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS replied that would be a class A misdemeanor
(page 4, line 13).
SENATOR TAYLOR said he thought if they were going to hold people
to that kind of standard, they should have something more than
registered mail to get hold of them. Four days may not be an
adequate period of time for notification. He asked where that
number came from.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS replied that some states use immediate, some
use 24 hours, some use 48 hours. She added, "Given distances and
absentee landlords, we doubled it…And it is 'knowingly' under the
class A misdemeanor." She noted the Municipality of Anchorage
allows 48 hours to secure a condemned property.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON said that 'knowingly' in this case is upon
return of the receipt after being notified by mail or some other
method.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Lieutenant Grimes what chemicals are found
in a standard run-of-the-mill meth lab.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES replied that the typical chemicals are
extremely caustic and corrosive, such as toluene, camping fuel,
paint thinner, acetone, spray cleaner, butane fuel, gum scrubber
detergent products and muriatic acid. Sulfuric acid is obtained
from drain cleaner. Lithium batteries are required as well as
sodium hydroxide, found in lye. The chemical reactions between
those chemicals cause the real toxic residue, which gets spilled
a lot. Fumes are absorbed into carpeting, furniture, upholstery
and walls and remain until they are properly cleaned up. They are
a real hazard to anybody who goes in without the correct
equipment. Law enforcement officers go into these labs with
appropriate breathing apparatus and clothing.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if anyone knew the cost of cleanup.
MS. MARY SIROKY, legislative liaison for DEC, explained that
cleanups can include removing carpeting, furniture, and taking
down dry wall. Other states have looked at painting as a form of
encapsulation.
SENATOR TAYLOR said they are talking about a very significant
expense.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS said that depends on the level of chemicals.
DEC would set guidelines on decontamination.
SENATOR TAYLOR said that there is frequently more than one
victim, not only those who use the drugs that are produced and
that entire industry, but also the owners of property, the people
who come up with a plan, inspectors, etc. He commented, "I can
see this having a devastating affect on someone, especially in a
multi-unit place."
MS. SIROKY responded that the law enforcement agency, which is in
charge of the cleanup, would make the determination of whether or
not the vapors and chemicals are restricted to one area or
multiple areas. Their research shows that most of the time the
damage stays in one unit. DEC will keep a list of people who are
qualified to test, but are not certified, and establish
guidelines on what has to be done, but an owner can choose to do
it himself or hire someone who is certified to do it.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked where those people would be located.
MS. SIROKY said they have a list of about five or six labs that
are capable of doing most of the testing. According to DEC
research, no lab in the state is currently capable of testing for
one of the substances, other than the state lab. DEC anticipates
the state lab will fill that need until it's available in the
private sector.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked how the state lab in Anchorage does the
testing on a meth lab in Tok.
MS. SIROKY replied that the samples are shipped to the lab. DEC
envisions the responsibility will be upon the owner of the
facility to hire a contractor or get the expertise to do the
sampling and ship it to the lab. DEC will not be out there
sampling; it will just verify the lab samples.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he was trying to figure out what happens to
somebody in a more rural community. He is concerned about a class
A misdemeanor against mom and pop living in Glennallen and how
they would go through the process of making sure it was inspected
- finding the guy that is the inspector, getting the stuff to a
lab, getting it cleaned up and having somebody verify it, etc. He
thought it would work fine in Anchorage, but he didn't know about
rural areas.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked Representative Guess what would happen
if the bill didn't pass.
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS replied that right now the police or
troopers will bust a meth lab, they post that it was a meth lab,
they send notice to the residential owner and that's where it
stops. They will not know if the building was ever cleaned and
most likely it will not be cleaned in an appropriate way.
Regarding Senator Taylor's concern, she said the intent of the
bill is that DEC would provide guidelines and a list of who to
talk to about testing. DEC would also answer questions. The state
is not going to go in and spend state resources cleaning up mom
and pop's rental.
4:40 p.m.
SENATOR TAYLOR suggested that she use Civil Rule 4 for the
notification process, so that if registered mail is used to
notify a person, a refusal must be received. He noted that
currently, before a building can be let for public use, the owner
must get an occupancy permit. He suggested "bootstrapping" off of
that because those permits are available in almost every
community. A local building inspector could come out and see that
the cleanup was adequate.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES clarified when law enforcement finds a lab and
does an eradication, DEA has a contract with a civilian company
that will go wherever the lab is located. So far, it has not
mattered if the lab was in a remote location or in an urban
location. The company will haul away any gross amount of
hazardous chemicals and materials identified by the law
enforcement officers on the scene.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if after the DEA removes the offending lab,
the building is condemned and DEC comes in and determines whether
there are any remnants of the production.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES replied that right now law enforcement takes
samples and other evidence required to make a case and arrests
and that's all.
TAPE 02-23, SIDE B
Lieutenant Grimes explained:
... call this company contracted to DEA, and they tell
this company what they have identified as bulk
chemicals or contaminated equipment that is HAZMAT and
has to be handled, you know, specifically as HAZMAT.
And that material is dealt with, you know, the
glassware and other equipment you use to make the meth-
amphetamine isn't always seized because it's hazardous
material. So it's destroyed but it's picked up and
dealt with properly by this company. But the carpeting
inside the house, for instance, or whatever else might
be contaminated - that part of the residence, that is
what remains that needs to be dealt with by the
landlord.
SENATOR ELTON said he didn't see any irreconcilable differences
and he thought the issue was about the protocols on handling
these incidents. He thought Senator Taylor's points were good and
that they could be worked out with the sponsor before Senate
Finance hears the bill. He said he was comfortable moving the
bill out of committee.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON suggested having the bill referred to the
Senate Judiciary Committee.
SENATOR HALFORD said he is interested in the new legal standard,
because there are some other places he would like to apply it. He
thought the legal standard in the definition of "illegal drug
manufacturing site" is a good one because it means property in
which there is a reasonably clear possibility.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON said he didn't mind holding the bill in
committee if Senator Taylor would help out with it.
SENATOR TAYLOR agreed to do so.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON announced he would hold the bill in committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|