03/25/2024 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY

           HB 358-PROHIBIT AI-ALTERED REPRESENTATIONS                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:05:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR VANCE announced  that the first order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO. 358,  "An  Act  relating  to use  of  artificial                                                               
intelligence to create or alter  a representation of the voice or                                                               
likeness of  an individual."   [Before the committee,  adopted as                                                               
the  working  document on  3/22/24,  was  the proposed  committee                                                               
substitute (CS)  for HB 358, Version  33-LS1272\U, Walsh, 3/21/24                                                               
("Version U").]                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:06:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MIKE  CRONK,   Alaska  State  Legislature,  prime                                                               
sponsor of CSHB  358, Version U, introduced  himself and deferred                                                               
to his staff.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:08:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVE  STANCLIFF, Staff,  Alaska State  Legislature, on  behalf of                                                               
Representative  Cronk,  prime sponsor  of  CSHB  358, Version  U,                                                               
shared  that  he had  been  working  closely  with a  "big  tech"                                                               
representative on language  that would make the bill  better.  He                                                               
characterized  the bill  as landmark  legislation and  emphasized                                                               
the need to do things  right because [other legislation] would be                                                               
built on it rapidly.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:09:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER  asked Mr.  Stancliff to  disclose which                                                               
company he had been working with.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STANCLIFF  identified  his  contact as  Ben  Moore  who  had                                                               
introduced himself  as having worked with  every major technology                                                               
[company] except Microsoft and TikTok.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:10:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB BALLINGER,  Staff, Representative  Sarah Vance,  Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, on  behalf of Representative  Vance, noted  that Ben                                                               
Moore is  affiliated with an organization,  called TechNet, which                                                               
is  an   association  of   technical  providers   and  technology                                                               
companies.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR VANCE said  she had not drafted any  amendments because she                                                               
wanted to allow the committee  to determine which direction to go                                                               
in light of the conversations [with TechNet].                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:11:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALLINGER offered the following  recommended changes based on                                                               
the  conversation  with  TechNet:  make the  depiction  of  child                                                               
sexual  abuse   material  apply  to  "viewing,   production,  and                                                               
distribution,"  in addition  to possession;  on page  2, line  3,                                                               
include "it is  not a defense to this section  that an individual                                                               
depicted is  no longer  a child";  grant entities,  like TechNet,                                                               
exemption  from civil  or criminal  penalties  for violations  of                                                               
this act for  actions taken to prevent,  detect, protect against,                                                               
report, or respond to  the production, generation, incorporation,                                                               
synthetization of child sexual abuse material;                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:14:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CARPENTER sought  to confirm  that Mr.  Ballinger                                                               
was referring to platforms that may  want to rid their system [of                                                               
pornographic  material],   which  by  doing  so,   would  require                                                               
conducting a search that would violate the proposed legislation.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.   BALLINGER   confirmed   that   Representative   Carpenter's                                                               
understanding was  accurate, adding  that a similar  exemption is                                                               
provided to law enforcement for the purposes of investigation.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:15:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.   BALLINGER  resumed   his  explanation   of  the   following                                                               
recommendations:  specify  that  unless   the  person  or  entity                                                               
removes  the  disclosure set  forth  in  AS 15.80.009,  liability                                                               
would  not  be applied  to  the  following entities:  interactive                                                               
computer service,  internet service  provider, telecommunications                                                               
network,   or   radio/television/broadcaster,  including   cable,                                                               
satellite  television  operator,  programmer, or  producer.    In                                                               
addition,   TechNet  recommended   using  the   term  "materially                                                               
deceptive media" in place of "deepfake."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:17:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked  why the use of a  disclaimer was being                                                               
allowed, as opposed to outlawing  the use of AI in electioneering                                                               
communications entirely.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALLINGER said he did not  know the answer.  He surmised that                                                               
it would make it more  "manageable and defensible" on the grounds                                                               
of First Amendment rights.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SUMNER   agreed  that   prohibiting  a   form  of                                                               
political satire could be a substantial First Amendment issue.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR VANCE  said the  point of  this discussion  was to  have an                                                               
open, transparent conversation about the use of AI.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:21:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CARPENTER  asked  whether  the  committee  should                                                               
consider criminal  violations in  response to  egregious conduct,                                                               
as opposed to  civil liability.  He pointed out  that once a deep                                                               
fake is posted, the damage is already done.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR VANCE added that part  of it, is considering what authority                                                               
to give to the Alaska Public Offices Commission (APOC).                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STANCLIFF pondered  the best  way to  define "deepfake"  and                                                               
said it would be up to the committee to decide.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:24:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALLINGER  noted that  TechNet  had  suggested updating  the                                                               
definition  of  "artificial  intelligence"  to  "a  machine-based                                                               
system that for explicit or  implicit objectives, infers from the                                                               
input it receives  how to generate outputs,  such as predictions,                                                               
content   recommendations,  or   decisions  that   can  influence                                                               
physical or virtual  environments.  Different AI  systems vary in                                                               
their levels of autonomy and  adaptiveness after deployment."  In                                                               
regard to  the disclosure statement,  TechNet suggested  that the                                                               
candidate  or  sponsor  responsible   for  the  advertisement  or                                                               
electioneering  communication  include  a clear  and  conspicuous                                                               
disclosure  that   states,  "This   (image/audio/video)  includes                                                               
materially   deceptive  media."      Furthermore,  he   suggested                                                               
including  a subsection  under the  definition  of "deepfake"  or                                                               
"materially deceptive media" which  states, "is intended to cause                                                               
harm to  the individual whose  appearance, action, or  speech has                                                               
been manipulated."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:28:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER pointed out  that AS 11.46.565 [criminal                                                               
impersonation  in the  first degree]  and AS  11.46.570 [criminal                                                               
impersonation in  the second degree]  could apply to  the conduct                                                               
in question.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  VANCE stated  that the  committee  needs to  be clear  and                                                               
deliberative on the specifics of deepfakes  and the use of AI, as                                                               
programs, such as spell check, are considered AI.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:33:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SUMNER asked  whether  Chair  Vance was  implying                                                               
that using  spell check to  write a statement  that misrepresents                                                               
an  opponent  could fall  under  the  proposed legislation.    He                                                               
opined that such a proposal could be problematic.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR VANCE said  she was saying that  the use of AI  needs to be                                                               
clearly defined  because it's  already being  used in  many ways.                                                               
She  explained that  if the  legislation is  too broad,  it could                                                               
inadvertently encompass  things, like spell check  and Photoshop,                                                               
so the  committee needs  to be  intentional in  narrowly defining                                                               
its appropriate use and that which would need a disclaimer.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPREPRESENTATIVE GROH said  he was struck by  three things [with                                                               
regard to AI]:  how little is known, the  rapidly changing field,                                                               
and the enormous potential for both good and ill.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:38:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. STANCLIFF noted that the bill  sponsor would like the bill to                                                               
stay  focused  on  individual protections.    He  encouraged  the                                                               
committee to start small and  stay limited in scope; in addition,                                                               
he pointed  out that there was  a more comprehensive bill  in the                                                               
House State Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:41:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY  directed attention to  page 2, lines  3-6 of                                                               
Version  U, and  asked whether  AI created  pornography depicting                                                               
[legislators] is legal under current law.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:41:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KACI  SCHROEDER,  Assistant   Attorney  General,  Legal  Services                                                               
Section, Criminal  Division, Department  of Law  (DOL), confirmed                                                               
that  it is  not a  crime.   She  noted  that she  had posed  the                                                               
question to [her  colleagues at DOL] when  the incident involving                                                               
[explicit deepfake images  of Taylor Swift] occurred,  and it was                                                               
determined  that it  would  possibly  be a  civil  matter, not  a                                                               
crime.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY  asked whether  [the legislature]  could make                                                               
it a crime.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER  indicated that  it would  be a  policy call.   She                                                               
noted that there may be First Amendment issues.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:42:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY  expressed his interest in  outlawing the use                                                               
of AI to  make child sexual abuse material [even  if the identity                                                               
of the child could not be proven].                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SCHROEDER  noted  that  AS   11.61.127,  as  it's  currently                                                               
written, provides  that the identity  of the child does  not have                                                               
to be proven; however, she was  unsure how it would work with the                                                               
proposed language.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:45:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY  considered a hypothetical scenario  in which                                                               
AI was used  to alter real child sexual abuse  material by making                                                               
the face  unrecognizable.  He  asked whether that would  still be                                                               
considered child sexual abuse material.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER directed  attention to page 1, line  14 [of Version                                                               
u], and  explained that it  doesn't matter  if the face  has been                                                               
blurred, as long  as part of the individual can  be identified as                                                               
an actual child under the age of 18.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRAY  asked  whether  the  bill  would  run  into                                                               
constitutional  problems if  the language  "and the  depiction is                                                               
recognizable as  an identifiable,  actual child from  the child's                                                               
face,  likeness,  or  other distinguishing  characteristics"  was                                                               
deleted from page 2, line 5.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SCHROEDER  responded,  "That's   an  open  question."    She                                                               
explained   that  [DOL]   had  considered   limiting  it   to  an                                                               
identifiable child, adding  that there is an  analysis already in                                                               
play  for morphed  child  pornography that  would  also apply  to                                                               
images that are identifiable as an actual child.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:48:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER asked  how [the state] would  be able to                                                               
prosecute if there's no actual individual to point to.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER  stated that there  is caselaw  surrounding morphed                                                               
child   pornography  with   reference   to   its  emotional   and                                                               
reputational harm.   She shared  her understanding that  the same                                                               
argument  could   extend  to  the   circumstance  of   a  wholly,                                                               
artificially created image.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:49:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR VANCE referred to Version  U and asked whether AI generated                                                               
pornography of an adult would  fall under the civil liability for                                                               
defamation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER said potentially, it could fall under that.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR VANCE asked  how often AI had been used  as evidence during                                                               
criminal trials.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER  stated that  the department had  not seen  AI used                                                               
very much,  if at all,  in the context of  criminal law.   Of the                                                               
cases  involving pornography,  she  explained  that some  morphed                                                               
child  pornography  was  encountered;  however,  it  involved  an                                                               
actual  image of  a child,  not  something that  had been  wholly                                                               
created by AI.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:52:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRAY  asked,  if  an amendment  were  passed  [in                                                               
another  bill]  that defines  AI  as  people, whether  wholly  AI                                                               
generated depictions  of unrecognizable people could  be outlawed                                                               
on the basis of defaming the AI as a person.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHROEDER did  not know the answer, adding  that the question                                                               
would require further research.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:53:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR VANCE  announced that  CSHB 358, Version  U, would  be held                                                               
over.