Legislature(2011 - 2012)BARNES 124
03/12/2012 03:15 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB275 | |
| HB337 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 275 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 337 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 337-BD OF ARCHITECTS, ENGINEERS, SURVEYORS
4:00:05 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced that the final order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 337, "An Act relating to the Board of
Registration for Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors and
to the Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic
Development."
4:00:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON stated that this bill would add a full-
time investigator assigned to the Board of Architects,
Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS).
4:01:22 PM
LYNETTE BERGH, Staff, Representative Steve Thompson, Alaska
State Legislature, Alaska State Legislature, stated that HB 337
will revise the statutes to increase the part-time investigator
to a full-time investigator position. Currently, the AELS
shares one part-time investigator with five other boards,
including construction contractors, home inspectors, electrical
administrators, mechanical administrators, and storage tank
workers. The investigator's oversight covers 20,000 licensees,
of which 5,600 licensees relate the AELS board. Further, a new
regulation will take effect in the next 30 days, which will add
10 additional engineering disciplines will be added to the AELS
Board. The branches of engineering the AELS board will oversee
will increase from 6 to 16 branches, including structural,
environmental, nuclear, and industrial engineering. This will
add to the already heavy work load the department's investigator
covers. She stressed the necessity of expanding the engineering
disciplines for the safety of Alaskans, but it will add to an
already heavy workload of the board's part-time investigator.
Additionally, each of the six boards the investigator oversees
has as an increasing number of licensees.
4:03:58 PM
MS. BERGH said the part-time investigator continually faces
pressure to spend less time on the AELS board and more time on
the other boards under his purview. Further, this sole
investigator must maintain knowledge of statutes and regulations
for all six boards. Clearly, the lack of a full-time
investigator for the board could potentially reduce its
effectiveness in carrying out charges required by the state
statutes and regulations. One unintended consequence of
overloading the investigator could result in a failure to
fulfill to the fullest extent the state and regulatory charges.
She concluded that this will put the state at risk and may
inadvertently create a hazard to public health, safety, and
welfare. She highlighted that HB 337 will ensure that the AELS
board can continue the proper oversight of the AELS board's
licensees, while remaining in compliance with all state
regulations and statutes. She predicted that hiring a full-time
investigator will help the AELS board maintain its reputation
and integrity with respect to the professions it oversees.
4:05:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER questioned the need to expand engineering
specialties.
MS. BERGH answered that specific engineering branches need to
have some guidance to ensure public health, safety, and welfare.
She explained that at the last board meeting the AELS approved
added professions and branches; 10 different professions.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether one investigator will be
sufficient to cover the additional licensees.
4:06:50 PM
MS. BERGH answered that one investigator would be amenable. She
pointed out that the AELS board could revisit the matter at
future board meetings.
4:07:26 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether the current investigator
would resign from the other boards.
MS. BERGH offered to her knowledge that the investigator would
do so. She deferred to the department to elaborate.
4:08:00 PM
DON HABEGER, Director, Division of Corporations, Business, and
Professional Licensing, Department of Commerce, Community, &
Economic Development (DCCED), introduced himself.
4:08:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked the current investigator serves
five other boards and HB 337 passes if this investigator would
be assigned as the full-time investigator. He further asked if
someone else would be hired to cover the additional five boards.
MR. HABEGER responded that the division would decide if current
investigator is the appropriate choice for this board, and if
so, he would be transferred to the new position control number
(PCN). The division would have a vacant position and would do
so through the job announcement network typically used.
4:09:34 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked if the division has any indication
of whether the current investigator is interested in serving.
MR. HABEGER said the division would encourage the investigator
to consider the full-time position.
4:10:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked if the division anticipates an
increase in the number of investigations due to the engineering
branch expansion.
MR. HABEGER offered his belief that investigations would
increases since the workload has increased over time. He
explained that recent legislative audits discussed investigative
timeliness. He reported that the 1,100 complaints arose in FY
11, and the investigators indicate a good case load is 35-40
cases. He anticipated that expanding this position to a full-
time position would allow the board and division to address the
issue more cases rather than raising the bar on investigations,
such as only addressing the cases with the highest health and
safety issues.
4:11:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER questioned whether one investigator is
sufficient and if licensees will agree to bear the cost.
MR. HABEGER recalled the AELS Board underwent a fee increase in
fall and the division picked a price point and experienced
significant kickback. He pointed out the difficulty in
predicting an investigation's outcome, whether it will result in
a consent agreement and voluntary compliance or due to
unresolved legitimate issues will require a hearing process or
be resolved by the courts. Thus investigative outcomes are
unpredictable. He acknowledged that at some point licensees
resist any cost increases. He described this process as
reaching a balance and he was not certain.
4:12:40 PM
ERIC ERICKSEN, P.E., Electrical Engineer; Member, Board of
Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board) testified
in support of HB 337. He stated that he is an Alaska resident,
an electrical engineer, and has served on the AELS board for
three years. During this time, he said he has had the
opportunity gain knowledge on the investigative process and the
growing concern over increases in investigations and the
investigator's ability to conduct them. He reiterated that when
an investigator cannot get through all the cases, that cases are
prioritized. This results in cases that do not get reviewed.
He referred to position papers in members' packets, in
particular, from the Chair of the AELS board. He agreed with
his recommendations. He concluded with his support for HB 337
and the health and safety of the public.
4:14:21 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER related his understanding that the
licensing fees will be adjusted upward to cover the additional
fees for the additional half-time position. He inquired as to
whether the engineering profession was willing to cover the
cost.
MR. ERICKSEN answered that the fees will be evaluated. He was
unsure of whether the fees would change, but if they do he would
personally support the change. He offered his belief that the
professional license fees are typically lower than many other
states. He predicted an increase in fees would be supported.
4:15:16 PM
MR. HABEGER stated that state law requires the division to
analyze the program to determine if the revenue stream meets the
board's expenses. If the revenue does not meet the next
biennial license cycle, which is a two-year cycle, the division
must adjust the fees and pass the cost on to the professions,
which in this instance are architects, engineers, land
surveyors, and landscape architects. He offered his belief that
the fees would likely have to adjust upward to cover the
investigator position.
4:16:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON recalled complaints about the Real Estate
Licensing Board since their fees doubled when the board expanded
its powers. He questioned whether any checks and balances exist
since government will grow to fill the void. He expressed
concern that there do not seem to be controls on the boards. He
noted he was making a general statement. He pointed again to
the real estate licensing fees which increased considerably. He
said he has talked to real estate agents that indicate the board
is doing things the agents do not really want them to do, but
they must pay for it. He reiterated his question about the
current checks and balances to ensure that the boards do not get
out of control and pass through to their membership.
MR. HABEGER responded that the law requires him to pass through
the costs. He thinks the check and balance is the public
comment process, which worked relatively effectively with
respect to the real estate fee.
4:18:40 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked whether the statute should be
changed and deposit license fees into the general fund, but to
figure a better way to handle this process.
MR. HABEGER responded with a comment. One of the things he has
heard given Real Estate Commission fee issues is how to nab
perpetrators, or those that do not want to abide by statutes and
regulations. He said he does not see a great mechanism to do
this, but he views this as a great discussion point. He
recapped that the short answer is the discussion needs to
continue.
4:20:15 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON offered his view that professionals are
doing their jobs and it is tough enough to do business in the
state. He said he wants to protect entrepreneurs and he would
like to hold that discussion. He commented that government will
expand to fill the void and if ten investigators were hired they
would find work to accomplish. He related that he would like to
be cautious about pass through of costs to membership without
checks and balances. He wanted to be sure that the legislature
is not saddling businesses with more state bureaucracy.
4:21:48 PM
CHAIR OLSON related his understanding with respect to real
estate issues that two large ongoing investigations expended a
substantial amount. He thought one investigation went off in
different direction and is still ongoing.
MR. HABEGER offered his belief that the case in question is
currently in Superior Court.
CHAIR OLSON offered that the attorney fees were substantial.
MR. HABEGER answered yes, noting the expenses are charged back
to licensees.
4:23:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER referred to page 2, lines 1-2, which
read, "(2) shall, at the request of the board, conduct
investigations...." He asked whether an investigator can
conduct investigations in opposition to the will of the board.
MR. HABEGER responded that the division's centralized statutes
allow the division to also do some work, such as conduct
investigations. He offered his belief that this works in tandem
with the board. He said the board can direct the investigator,
but the department would have a duty to investigate a complaint
in violation to the AELS statutes and regulations.
4:24:32 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked for clarification that the board or
department can direct an investigation. He questioned whether
the board could block an investigation.
MR. HABEGER answered that it has not happened.
4:24:52 PM
COLIN MAYNARD, Structural Engineer; Member, Alaska Professional
Design Council (APDC) stated he has served several terms on the
board of the APDC, an organization that represents architects,
engineers, landscape architects, interior designers, and land
surveyors. He highlighted one of his roles as a board member
was chair of the AELS task force to assess industry on board
actions. He pointed out that one thing the APDC task force
found the AELS board did not conduct enough investigations, that
it was taking too long to conduct the investigation, and some
activity was ignored since it fell out of the most important
level or the attorney general's office declined prosecution. He
reiterated that the industry supports the additional
investigator and will pay additional fees so long as the
investigations happen. He commented that AELS license renewal
fees have gone from $125 to $175 and back to $125. He offered
his belief that the fewer investigations will happen during the
biennial timeframe and more are conducted in the next. Thus the
fluctuations in the investigations affect license fees.
Additionally the division has suffered budget cuts even though
the licensure fees pay for the costs of the division. He said,
"We're willing to pay what it takes to get the job done."
4:27:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON responded that is a dangerous statement.
He asked for clarification on whether the AELS board is willing
to pay anything to get the job done.
MR. MAYNARD said, "Within reason." He also said he has found
the AELS board is comprised of licensees and one public member,
who have worked with the APDC to ensure public safety.
4:27:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON remarked that his concerns are bigger
than this one board.
MR. MAYNARD suggested that the legislature could increase the
fines. He pointed out that the attorney general's office has
larger cases to prosecute so the AELS cases languish. Thus a
larger civil penalty could help.
CHAIR OLSON offered to work on the larger issue during the
interim.
4:28:28 PM
BRIAN HANSON, Civil and Mining Engineer; Member, Board of
Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board),
testified in support of HB 337. He said the investigator has a
significant backlog of cases, noting the sheer number of cases
the investigator currently has plus the one awaiting review.
The investigator has approximately 50 open cases, with about
double the amount for review that is a significant backlog. He
covers five other boards so the investigator's travel is
limited. Current the investigator focuses time on cases in the
Anchorage and Matanuska-Susitna area, with an occasional trip to
the Kenai Peninsula Borough and Fairbanks. He surmised that
half the state receives coverage with a half-time investigator.
He pointed out that lots more engineering and other design work
is happening throughout the state. Additionally, the board
investigator cannot use training opportunities offered
nationally as well as network, due to time and travel
constraints. He offered his belief that adding this half-time
position will help AELS meet its responsibilities by protecting
the public's health, safety, and welfare. He was not willing to
say the registrants are willing to pay whatever it costs but the
additional cost would result in a fee increase of $10 per
registrant per year, and not $200 per registrant biennial
license fee. He stated that he is in support of HB 337.
4:31:42 PM
DALE NELSON, Civil Engineer; Legislative Liaison Committee,
Alaska Professional Design Council, LLC (APDC), stated he is a
professional civil engineer and has been registered in the state
since 1973. He serves as the chair of the legislative liaison
committee for the Alaska Professional Design Council, LLC
(APDC). He related that Mr. Maynard is also an active member of
APDC, which is a professional organization comprised of member
societies including The Alaska Society of Professional Engineers
(ASPE), the Alaska Society of Professional Land Surveyors, the
American Congress of Surveying and Mapping - Alaska Section, the
American Institute of Architects - Alaska Chapter, the American
Society of Civil Engineers - Alaska Section, the American
Society of Landscape Architects - Alaska Chapter, the American
Council of Engineering Companies of Alaska, and the American
Society of Interior Designers, and the Structural Engineer
Association. This organization has a membership of over 1,500
members representing over 5,000 licensed professionals in the
state. The APDC LLC in very much in favor of this bill and
views it as a move in right direction as it will increase the
investigator of the design professionals to a fulltime position.
4:34:08 PM
BOYD BROWNFIELD, Civil Engineer; Member, Board of Architects,
Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board) stated that he has
been a registered civil engineer in Alaska since 1975. He has
most recently served on the AELS Board for eight years. He
supports the bill. He has served as the AELS Board chair for
two years and as vice chair for four years. When he began
service in 2004, the board had two fulltime investigators, but
due to workload the investigator was increased to two and one-
half investigator positions. Although the workload has
increased, the investigator position has been reduced to one
part-time investigator position. The investigator position has
effectively been reduced to 15 percent of one investigator since
the position's responsibility is spread over five boards. He
offered his belief that the AELS's investigator is one of the
most dedicated and efficient investigators in the division. The
investigator serves the third largest board, with the Board of
Nursing, Barbers & Hairdressers as larger boards, but the AELS
Board is larger than the Medical Board, yet the medical board
has a designated investigator. He emphasized that the AELS
Board needs the investigator position since the board serves
four distinct professions and the six engineering branches will
soon to expand to 15 branches. He further emphasized the need
to have an investigator solely assigned to the AELS Board. He
urged members to support the bill. He referred to a letter from
Mr. Harley Hightower, AELS Board chair in members' packets.
This letter covers the important issues surrounding the need for
a full-time investigator. He offered his support for HB 337.
4:37:44 PM
HARLEY HIGHTOWER, Architect; Chair, Board of Architects,
Engineers and Land Surveyor (AELS Board) stated that he has been
registered as an architect in the state since 1964. He has
served as a principal architect since 1974. He currently serves
as AELS Board chair. He agreed with the prior testimony. He
spoke in support of HB 337 for numerous reasons. He related
that it is difficult for an inspector to stay current on
statutes for one board, but very difficult to cover five boards.
He pointed out that the AELS Board serves 5,600 registrants and
580 corporations. In 2008 and 2009 the AELS Board added 220 new
licenses each year. In 2010 and 2011, the board increased by
350 new licensees each year. He anticipated the licensees to
grow due to expansion of engineering disciplines. He
acknowledged that Alaska is a small population state and the
investigator likely covers about 15 percent of the state. The
AELS Board cannot adequately ensure public health, safety and
welfare without investigator support. He highlighted that this
translates into liability exposure to the state. The costs will
be covered by registration fees. He has been registered in
other states and finds the licensure reasonable fees in Alaska,
probably falling in the low average of the fee structure.
4:40:49 PM
RICHARD HEIEREN, Land Surveyor; Member, Board of Architects,
Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board), stated that he is
speaking in support of HB 337. He has served as an AELS Board
member since 2005 and also endorses previous comments. He added
that a perception of lack of enforcement exists within the
professions. He noted that in vehicle enforcement writing one
speeding violation may impact the number of speeders. He
suggested that HB 337 will go long way in alleviating the
perception of a lack of enforcement. He offered his belief that
the cost is minimal, about $8-10 per licensee per year. He did
not think that was too much money to protect the professions,
but public health, safety, and welfare. He asked members to
please support HB 337.
4:43:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON said that the committee heard from Mr.
Hightower that the lack of a full-time investigator has limited
the cases. He asked whether any instances of this have happened
in Fairbanks.
MR. HEIEREN said he has heard through the grapevine from some
who were cited that enforcement was laughable. He did not want
to disparage the enforcement; however, the perception is a low
level of enforcement occurs.
4:44:44 PM
BURT LENT, Landscape Architect Member, Board of Architects,
Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board), stated that he is
the sole landscape architect member. He has been serving on the
board for 6.5 years and has been practicing landscape
architecture since 1975. The profession was initially licensed
in the state in 2000. The landscape architects now have 12
years as registrants and more people are coming along. He
pointed out that licensure requires examination in arctic
engineering or Northern Design, which is unique and excellent
way to introduce people to problems in Alaska. He explained
that Alaska has lots of major land and environmental issues in
the design work. He emphasized the importance for landscape
architect's licensure. He highlighted that the number of
licensees is small in number, but they cover a lot of territory.
He related that it is important to have good licensure. He has
had concerns about enforcement since the investigator is being
spread so thin. He expressed concern that some work is not
done. He further expressed concern in terms of enforcement for
all building professions. He pointed out that the state needs
to ensure that the professions are not subject to those
practicing without a license, false advertising construction and
other issues that investigators are familiar with so it is
important to fully staff the position. He offered his support
for HB 337 and urged members to approve the bill.
4:48:42 PM
CHAIR OLSON, after first determining no one else wished to
testify, closed public testimony on HB 337.
CHAIR OLSON commented that it's tough to argue with professions
who want to pay more for licensing fees to self-police.
4:49:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to report HB 337 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
note. There being no objection, HB 337 was reported out of the
House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.