Legislature(2021 - 2022)BARNES 124
03/10/2022 08:00 AM House COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing(s): Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development - Commissioner | |
| HB309 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 309 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 309-APOC; CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS/REPORTING
9:12:06 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE announced that the final order of business
would be HOUSE BILL NO. 309, "An Act exempting candidates for
municipal office and municipal office holders in municipalities
with a population of 15,000 or less from financial or business
interest reporting requirements; relating to campaign finance
reporting by certain groups; and providing for an effective
date." [Before the committee, adopted as a working document on
3/3/22, was the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB 309,
Version 32-LS0540\G, Bullard, 2/24/22 ("Version G").]
9:12:25 AM
NILS ANDREASSEN, Executive Director, Alaska Municipal League,
stated that the Alaska Municipal League (AML) has not had the
opportunity to identify its position in support of or opposition
to the proposed legislation. He spoke about "the burden of
participation" finding folks to run for local offices and he
emphasized the importance of encouraging participation. He said
AML checked in with several members of the legislature, who were
supportive of HB 309 and easing onerous requirements [to apply
for elected positions] while ensuring adequate safeguards. He
opined this is an important issue and HB 309 takes steps to
improve the system. He said AML would take time to consider
"what else is out there" to improve the election process for
local officials.
9:15:08 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN noted that 136 governments in Alaska "have opted
out," and HB 309 would potentially affect 25. She questioned
why the other smaller communities are not opting out when the
majority of local governments have. She asked, "What is the
struggle to opting out versus changing statutes so you don't
have to comply?"
MR. ANDREASSEN answered it could be the limited capacity of some
of these local governments; they may not be aware of current
statutes or what steps they can or should take in response to
statute. He speculated that so many opting out may be "a
symptom of the larger system that's in place." He suggested AML
and the state may have a larger role in conveying the options to
those small governments.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN asked whether AML had heard from the Boroughs of
Ketchikan Gateway, Kodiak Island, North Slope, Wasilla, or
Skagway. She said she is struggling to understand the scope of
the problem. She said Alaska has a "deep disclosure" and
"Alaskans have gotten used to having that information
available." She said she can understand Edna Bay, with a
population of 43, as having difficulty with the requirements;
however, she noted Edna Bay already does not have to file
because of [its low population count]. She asked whether AML
has heard from local governments "that they can't comply."
MR. ANDREASSEN answered no, but noted that AML has not asked all
the communities. He said HB 309 would provide the opportunity
for AML to "dig a little bit deeper." Those communities AML has
asked have given feedback that they "have had issues with how
things are currently structured." He said he could get back to
Co-Chair Hannan about those communities she had specifically
asked about.
9:18:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JONATHAN KRIESS-TOMKINS, Alaska State
Legislature, as prime sponsor of HB 309, said one question to
ask is whether the rule makes sense and adds value. He
indicated it does not make sense to require filing for Edna Bay
City Council members when the population there is just 43.
Regarding compliance, he said he had heard from the mayor of
Nome, Alaska, that it is "a pain in the butt." He said he would
not be surprised if the list of communities that opts out
continues to grow. He advised that many smaller communities can
be saved the time if only larger communities fall under the
requirement. He said when public officials are managing "tens
of hundreds of millions of dollars," then it makes sense to have
that level of transparency. The intent is to make it easier on
those in smaller communities where that is not necessary. He
speculated that the Alaska Public Offices Commission (APOC) has
spent time "chasing down" city council members in the smaller
communities to fill out the forms; so, it is a mutually time-
consuming process.
9:22:02 AM
HEATHER HEBDON, Executive Director, Alaska Public Offices
Commission, echoing the comments of the bill sponsor, said APOC
finds that in the small communities, council members may serve
in a volunteer capacity, and many of them come and go, not
serving a full term. She said they have to file a financial
statement, an annual statement, a final statement, and a cycle
of paperwork, and sometimes they are holding these positions for
less than a three-year term. Further, she noted that many don't
have an office and struggle with inconsistent mail service and
limited connectivity [to the Internet]. She said the forms are
being filed with the official's clerk, for example, and APOC is
not even seeing the forms. These are the communities
disadvantaged by the penalties for late filing, because the fees
for late filing are disproportionate for small communities. She
acknowledged that the North Slope Borough has money "flowing
through" but shares other disadvantages of smaller communities,
such as issues with connectivity. She concluded, "People aren't
requesting copies of these statements; I don't know that ...
it's serving a public interest having to go through this."
9:25:09 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN pointed to a [4-page] spreadsheet [included in
the committee packet, which lists those municipalities that are
or are not subject to a public official financial disclosure
(POFD)]. She asked for confirmation that "the bottom swath"
municipalities with populations less than 1,000, including Edna
Bay - are exempt from filing a POFD.
MS. HEBDON clarified that candidates of communities listed in
the bottom swath of the spreadsheet are not required to file at
the time they submit their candidate petition to run for office;
however, once elected, they are required to file.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN noted Skagway, one of the municipalities she
represents, would be exempted under HB 309, and she indicated
that Skagway has not chosen to adopt an ordinance to opt out.
She asked Ms. Hebdon to note the communities that are "still
struggling with this" in order to identify where the population
break is.
9:27:51 AM
MS. HEBDON posited that drawing "a line in the sand" is a policy
call for the legislature, and she reiterated her previous
concerns regarding the smaller communities especially those
with populations of less than 1,000. She remarked that more
sophisticated municipalities may be capable, but she cannot say
they meet their requirements any better, because many
municipalities with populations of 1,500 down to 1,000 continue
to struggle. She noted that the clerks' offices in the
municipalities are the record holders, and they need to
communicate with APOC.
9:29:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS added that it is a question of
what makes sense in terms of a default and whether the state
should be putting forward this mandate for all communities when
there has been minimal interest, in terms of [the public]
inquiring about POFDs. He talked about allowing a community to
decide "what makes sense to them from a POFD basis."
9:30:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY offered his understanding that the
premise of HB 309 is "to have transparency of the integrity of
candidates." He talked about how in small communities people
know the business of everyone. He asked why "the 15,000 number"
is seen as a problem. He then asked about the issues of mail
delays and whether viable candidates are being prohibited from
running for office.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS responded that the question of the
threshold is a policy call. Currently the line is 1,000, and
under HB 309 it would be 15,000. He said he thinks the higher
number makes sense based on observations from APOC and Mr.
Andreassen. To the issue of how candidates are being prohibited
from running for office, he referred to testimony heard at a
previous meeting from the mayor of the City of Nome, as well as
written testimony from Mr. Walker [included in the committee
packet]. The issue is the hassle and time it takes to file the
forms being a disincentive to running for office. He noted that
planning commissions fall under the requirement, as well.
9:37:37 AM
MR. ANDREASSEN, to the questions from Co-Chair Hannan and
Representative McCarty, advised that it is important to remember
how diverse the communities on the spread sheet are. He said
population is one factor. Other factors include class of city
or borough, total revenue and responsibilities, geographic area,
and diversity. He proffered that communities have not
identified this as a challenge because they follow the law and
"prioritize their communications to the legislature." He
advised that the more that is added to the number of
requirements of municipalities, the more reduced is their
ability to respond to all other priorities. He asked the
committee to keep in mind that the clerks responsible for this
filing are responsible for a multitude of other tasks in these
smaller municipalities. He advised that the more that can be
done to reduce their obligations, the better. He encouraged
allowing these smaller municipalities to focus on the things
that matter, such as public safety, education, and elections.
9:41:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE asked whether the City of Fairbanks, with
a population of 31,668, would maintain its opt out status under
HB 309.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS confirmed that under HB 309, the
communities that had already opted out would continue to be
opted out.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE observed that the threshold proposed under
HB 309 is targeted to help smaller areas where everyone knows
his/her neighbor. He pointed to the Boroughs of Kodiak and
North Slope as two that would be included under the 15,000
threshold but are spread out. He suggested the inclusion of
those boroughs may "change the paradigm of what you're trying to
do with this bill."
9:44:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS reflected that that is an accurate
assessment, and he suggested the threshold could be modified to,
for example, 10,000 to try to capture the larger boroughs
mentioned by Representative McCabe. He said he would not oppose
an amendment to that effect.
9:45:27 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PATKOTAK noted that he had served on the assembly
of the North Slope Borough, and he had not realized the borough
was "potentially exempted from it." Regarding boards and
commissions, he noted some assembly members dealt with geo-
bonding and investment committee members dealt with the Alaska
permanent fund both dealing with large amounts of money. He
said for those types of boards and commissions, he thinks having
a disclosure requirement in place is diligent. On the other
hand, the Inupiat [Heritage] Center boards and commissions dealt
with "things that are less financial in nature," and he could
see where the filing requirement for such an entity would be
cumbersome. He offered his understanding that under HB 309,
those municipalities under 15,000 would have the opportunity to
opt in, and he asked whether there could be a choice to select
which boards and commissions to opt in on.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS responded that he thinks that
opportunity would exist in that each borough would have the
prerogative "to make those calls."
REPRESENTATIVE PATKOTAK, based on that response, said he would
be more comfortable with the 15,000 threshold currently proposed
under HB 309.
9:50:10 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN noted that Mr. Andreassen had referenced that
perhaps it is "not just the population threshold." She
questioned whether the bill sponsor had considered the style of
government. She mentioned those who volunteer with zoning
commissions and the conflict that can come from that. She
further mentioned the powers of property taxation and police
powers and said she thinks "there's some assurance to the
community that their government is working on their behalf, not
on a personal self-interest." She stated she has no problem
exempting communities under 1,000, but 15,000 is "way too high."
She posited that the consideration is not just population but
the type and structure of government, and she asked the bill
sponsor whether he had considered this.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS answered, "I can't say we have."
He said it makes sense to give each community the ability to
decide what it wants and eliminate the state's "blanket
mandate." Given feedback and information available, he said he
would hesitate "to start breaking out different types of
governments against others when it seems like, more or less, the
reality's been the same across all types of governments."
9:54:28 AM
The committee took an at-ease from 9:54 a.m. to 9:55 a.m.
9:55:28 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY suggested the question is whether APOC is
the sole source for collecting information related to integrity
and transparency. He reflected that quite a few communities
have opted out, thus taking that burden off APOC. He said he
has not heard during any testimony that the opting out has been
a problem. He said he is "good with the 15,000" and "keeping
the integrity of this."
9:57:51 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE said he would not offer the amendment he
had prepared.
9:58:00 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN moved to adopt Amendment 1 to HB 309, Version G,
labeled 32-LS0540\I.1, Bullard, 3/8/22, which read as follows:
Page 1, line 2:
Delete "15,000"
Insert "3,000"
Page 2, line 31:
Delete "15,000"
Insert "3,000 [15,000]"
Page 4, line 17:
Delete "15,000"
Insert "3,000"
Page 4, line 27:
Delete "15,000"
Insert "3,000"
Page 5, line 12:
Delete "15,000"
Insert "3,000"
Page 6, line 6:
Delete "15,000"
Insert "3,000"
9:58:03 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE objected for the purpose of discussion.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN spoke to Amendment 1, which she noted had been
the one she anticipated Representative McCabe would have offered
but did not. She said the threshold would be dropped to 3,000.
She reiterated that she understands the burden to the smallest
of communities. She pointed out that many of the 35
municipalities that would be included under HB 309 are
functional first-class cities and boroughs, and she does not
think they should be exempt. Changing the number to 3,000 would
include the City of Skagway. She reiterated that a larger
number is too high. She emphasized that she does not want to
take the public disclosure information out of the record. She
noted that Amendment 1 had been drafted to align with the
original bill version, so the line numbering needs to be
corrected for Version G.
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE said if Amendment 1 were to pass, the committee
would give Legislative Legal Services the authority to make any
conforming changes.
10:00:33 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PATKOTAK said he would be more attuned to
supporting an amendment with the hybrid idea he suggested
previously.
10:00:52 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE maintained his objection.
10:00:54 AM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Drummond and Hannan
voted in favor of the motion to adopt Amendment 1 to HB 309,
Version G. Representatives McCarty, McCabe, Patkotak, and
Schrage voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 1 failed to be
adopted by a vote of 2-4.
10:01:49 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN moved to report CSHB 309, Version 32-LS0540\G,
Bullard, 2/24/22, out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being
no objection, CSHB 309(CRA) was reported out of the House
Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| Julie Sande Resume 2022.Redacted.pdf |
HCRA 3/10/2022 8:00:00 AM |
|
| Spreadsheet Explanation for HB 309.pdf |
HCRA 3/10/2022 8:00:00 AM |
HB 309 |
| HB 309 Updated Spreadsheets.pdf |
HCRA 3/10/2022 8:00:00 AM |
HB 309 |
| HB 309 Am 1.pdf |
HCRA 3/10/2022 8:00:00 AM |
HB 309 |