02/06/2006 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic | 
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB172 | |
| SB132 | |
| HB379 | |
| Adjourn | 
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 373 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 295 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | SB 132 | ||
| = | SB 172 | ||
| = | HB 379 | ||
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        February 6, 2006                                                                                        
                           1:12 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lesil McGuire, Chair                                                                                             
Representative Tom Anderson                                                                                                     
Representative John Coghill                                                                                                     
Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                        
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Les Gara                                                                                                         
Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 172                                                                                                             
"An  Act   relating  to  the  presentation   of  initiatives  and                                                               
referenda on the ballot."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HCS SB 172(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 132                                                                                                             
"An  Act  relating  to  complaints  filed  with,  investigations,                                                               
hearings, and orders  of, and the interest rate on  awards of the                                                               
State Commission for Human  Rights; making conforming amendments;                                                               
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HCS SB 132(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 379                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to controlled substances."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 379(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 373                                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating  to  the  manufacture  and  transportation  of                                                               
alcoholic  beverages; relating  to  forfeitures  of property  for                                                               
violations   of  alcoholic   beverage  laws;   and  relating   to                                                               
violations of alcoholic beverage laws."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 295                                                                                                              
"An Act adopting the Uniform Fraudulent Transfer Act and                                                                        
relating to fraudulent transfers of property."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 172                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM BALLOT SUMMARY                                                                               
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) THERRIAULT                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
04/13/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/13/05       (S)       STA                                                                                                    
04/19/05       (S)       STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                               
04/19/05       (S)       Moved SB 172 Out of Committee                                                                          
04/19/05       (S)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
04/20/05       (S)       STA RPT 4DP                                                                                            
04/20/05       (S)       DP: THERRIAULT, WAGONER, HUGGINS, DAVIS                                                                
04/25/05       (S)       TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                     
04/25/05       (S)       VERSION: SB 172                                                                                        
04/26/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/26/05       (H)       STA, JUD                                                                                               
05/05/05       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
05/05/05       (H)       Moved HCS SB 172(STA) Out of Committee                                                                 
05/05/05       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
05/05/05       (H)       STA RPT HCS(STA) 4DP 2NR                                                                               
05/05/05       (H)       DP: LYNN, GATTO, ELKINS, SEATON;                                                                       
05/05/05       (H)       NR: GARDNER, GRUENBERG                                                                                 
05/07/05       (H)       JUD AT 3:30 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
05/07/05       (H)       Meeting Postponed to 12 noon 5/8/05                                                                    
05/08/05       (H)       JUD AT 12:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                            
05/08/05       (H)       Meeting Postponed                                                                                      
05/09/05       (H)       JUD AT 0:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
05/09/05       (H)       <Bill Hearing Canceled>                                                                                
02/03/06       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
02/03/06       (H)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
02/06/06       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 132                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION                                                                                            
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
03/04/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/04/05       (S)       STA, JUD                                                                                               
03/17/05       (S)       STA AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/17/05       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/17/05       (S)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/29/05       (S)       STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                               
03/29/05       (S)       Moved SB 132 Out of Committee                                                                          
03/29/05       (S)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/30/05       (S)       STA RPT  3NR 1AM                                                                                       
03/30/05       (S)       NR: THERRIAULT, WAGONER, HUGGINS                                                                       
03/30/05       (S)       AM: DAVIS                                                                                              
04/07/05       (S)       JUD AT 8:30 AM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/07/05       (S)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
04/08/05       (H)       JUD AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
04/08/05       (S)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
04/14/05       (S)       JUD AT 8:00 AM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/14/05       (S)       Moved SB 132 Out of Committee                                                                          
04/14/05       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
04/14/05       (S)       JUD RPT  1DP 2NR 2AM                                                                                   
04/14/05       (S)       DP: SEEKINS                                                                                            
04/14/05       (S)       NR: THERRIAULT, HUGGINS                                                                                
04/14/05       (S)       AM: FRENCH, GUESS                                                                                      
04/21/05       (S)       TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                     
04/21/05       (S)       VERSION: SB 132(EFD FLD)                                                                               
04/22/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/22/05       (H)       STA, JUD                                                                                               
05/03/05       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
05/03/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
05/03/05       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
05/05/05       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
05/05/05       (H)       Moved HCS SB 132(STA) Out of Committee                                                                 
05/05/05       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
05/05/05       (H)       STA RPT HCS(STA) 4DP 1AM                                                                               
05/05/05       (H)       DP: LYNN, GATTO, ELKINS, SEATON;                                                                       
05/05/05       (H)       AM: GRUENBERG                                                                                          
05/05/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
05/05/05       (H)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
05/06/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
05/06/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
05/06/05       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
05/07/05       (H)       RULES TO CALENDAR PENDING REPORT                                                                       
05/07/05       (H)       IN JUDICIARY                                                                                           
05/08/05       (H)       RULES TO CALENDAR PENDING REPORT                                                                       
05/08/05       (H)       IN JUDICIARY                                                                                           
05/09/05       (H)       JUD AT 0:00 AM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
05/09/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
05/09/05       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
01/18/06       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
01/18/06       (H)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
01/25/06       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
01/25/06       (H)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
02/01/06       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
02/01/06       (H)       -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                                 
02/03/06       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
02/03/06       (H)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
02/06/06       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 379                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, INCL. ANALOGS                                                                               
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MEYER                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
01/18/06       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/18/06       (H)       JUD, FIN                                                                                               
01/27/06       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
01/27/06       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
01/27/06       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
02/06/06       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JOE BALASH, Staff                                                                                                               
to Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                      
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 172 on behalf of Senator                                                                       
Therriault, sponsor.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ANNETTE KREITZER, Chief of Staff                                                                                                
Office of the Lieutenant Governor                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the lieutenant governor's position                                                                
on SB 172.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
RANDY RUARO, Legislative Liaison                                                                                                
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the administration's position on                                                                  
SB 132.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI, Staff                                                                                                        
to Representative Kevin Meyer                                                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented amendments to HB 379 on behalf of                                                                 
Representative Meyer, sponsor.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS BEHEIM, Supervisor                                                                                                        
Scientific Crime Detection Laboratory                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 379.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LESIL   McGUIRE  called   the  House   Judiciary  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order at  1:12:49  PM.    Representatives                                                             
McGuire,  Gruenberg, Kott,  Coghill, and  Wilson were  present at                                                               
the call to order.   Representatives Gara and Anderson arrived as                                                               
the meeting was in progress.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SB 172 - INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM BALLOT SUMMARY                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:13:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  announced that the  first order of  business would                                                               
be SENATE BILL  NO. 172, "An Act relating to  the presentation of                                                               
initiatives and referenda on the ballot."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:14:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE  BALASH,  Staff  to Senator  Gene  Therriault,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, presented  SB 172 on  behalf of  Senator Therriault,                                                               
sponsor.  He  said the bill is simple.   Current statutes provide                                                               
that  once  an  initiative  petition   has  been  certified,  the                                                               
lieutenant governor  is required  to prepare  a ballot  title and                                                               
summary, which is  the same for referenda.  He  stated that under                                                               
existing law the  ballot title must indicate  the general subject                                                               
of the proposition and may not  exceed six words, and the summary                                                               
must be impartial and not more than 100 words.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:15:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT moved  to adopt  a proposed  House committee                                                               
substitute  (HCS)   for  SB  172,  version   24-LS0859\P,  Kurtz,                                                               
2/03/03,  as  a working  document.    There being  no  objection,                                                               
Version P was before the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALASH said  SB 172 speaks to the  lieutenant governor's duty                                                               
of titling and  summarizing voter initiatives and  referenda.  He                                                               
stated that the  current six-word limit for titles  is becoming a                                                               
limitation  to increasingly  complex initiatives  and legislative                                                               
laws,  and he  gave an  example of  recent legislation  where the                                                               
title  was a  page and  a half  long.   The bill's  intent is  to                                                               
provide an  accurate description  of the  issues that  are before                                                               
the voters, he  said.  He noted that the  original Senate version                                                               
only addressed the number of words  in the title, and the current                                                               
CS addresses  the number of words  for the summary, which  is 100                                                               
words for  each section.  An  initiative section is defined  as a                                                               
provision that is  different in purpose or subject  matter, and a                                                               
referendum  section  will be  defined  by  Legislative Legal  and                                                               
Research Services, he added.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:18:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALASH  relayed that the  version of  SB 172 that  passed the                                                               
Senate contained a  change in the maximum number of  words in the                                                               
title from 6  to 25.  The House State  Affairs Standing Committee                                                               
then  added   provisions  limiting  the  time   allowed  for  the                                                               
lieutenant governor  to prepare  the title  and summary,  but the                                                               
current lieutenant  governor said he  had concerns with  that, so                                                               
Senator Therriault agreed to drop those provisions.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked for clarification on Section 3.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALASH told him he was looking at Version X.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said  there was a time limitation  amendment by the                                                               
House  State  Affairs  Standing  Committee,  and  the  lieutenant                                                               
governor expressed  that it may not  be enough time to  do a good                                                               
job.   The big change  in the current  version is the  removal of                                                               
the deadline  and putting the  effective date back in  again, she                                                               
explained.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:22:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG relayed  that he  is not  aware of  the                                                               
problems [the  lieutenant governor's  office] has with  [the time                                                               
limit  provisions].   He said  there was  care taken  to put  the                                                               
amendment in,  and he is  not inclined to take  it out.   He said                                                               
the provision  was added because  sometimes people  challenge the                                                               
lieutenant governor's wording, "and this  has caused a problem on                                                               
several occasions very  recently."  He said that  a final version                                                               
[of an initiative or referendum]  issued only a short time before                                                               
the election  doesn't allow  time for a  legal challenge  to make                                                               
certain the law  is complied with.  "This will  make it difficult                                                               
to  challenge  what the  lieutenant  governor  does if  we  don't                                                               
provide  enough time  to do  it, and  it will  require the  court                                                               
system to  hear these things on  an emergency basis, and  it will                                                               
require, sometimes  even, the printing  of two sets  of ballots."                                                               
He said  the lieutenant governor  certainly should have  the time                                                               
to  prepare initiatives  in enough  time to  allow for  people to                                                               
study them.   It is a  reasonable request, and the  policy of not                                                               
doing it  encourages problematic synopses and  titles, he stated.                                                               
"That is a good public policy to  advance, and I have no idea why                                                               
they don't want to have an adequate judicial review," he said.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE noted  that the  time  limit is  "really the  only                                                               
substantive issue  that we're  addressing."   She said  the word-                                                               
limit aspects of the bill are  not under debate, but there may be                                                               
a desire for a discussion on the effective date.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  said  he  did  not  recall  seeing  an                                                               
effective date in the original bill.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said it was immediate  as it passed the Senate, and                                                               
the House  State Affairs  Standing Committee  removed that.   She                                                               
said she would like to see an immediate effective date.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:25:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ANNETTE  KREITZER,  Chief  of Staff,  Office  of  the  Lieutenant                                                               
Governor,  said  Representative  Gruenberg   called  her  with  a                                                               
concern that  30 days may  not be enough  time, and she  told him                                                               
she would take  a look at it.   She said it  was unfortunate that                                                               
the amendment  was adopted  by the  House State  Affairs Standing                                                               
Committee   to  "address   the   situation  that   Representative                                                               
Gruenberg  referenced."   She said  Representative Gruenberg  was                                                               
concerned  that  someone   may  sue  over  the   language  of  an                                                               
initiative.   She stated that  the problem with putting  a 30-day                                                               
deadline on  the lieutenant governor doesn't  solve that problem.                                                               
"There are people who will sue at  any time that it suits them to                                                               
sue, and  so telling  us that we  have to have  our work  done 30                                                               
days after the legislative session doesn't solve that problem."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. KREITZER  said she spoke  with the  chair of the  House State                                                               
Affairs Standing  Committee and "hashed through  this because the                                                               
committee  minutes don't  really get  to why  this amendment  was                                                               
adopted."  She said  her office does not put a  time limit on the                                                               
Department of Law to provide legal  guidance.  "We are waiting to                                                               
see  what the  legislature  does, whether  they pass  legislation                                                               
that is  similar to an initiative."   She said there  are several                                                               
initiatives this year that the legislature  may act on.  She said                                                               
her office keeps  the Department of Law (DOL)  "pretty busy," and                                                               
doesn't want  to keep them  any busier with initiatives  that may                                                               
or  may not  go  forward.   "So  we  wait until  the  end of  the                                                               
session," she relayed.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said he  sees the problem,  but perhaps                                                               
it can be solved without removing  all deadlines.  He suggested a                                                               
deadline  for filing  a legal  challenge.   He  pointed out  that                                                               
election  challenges are  limited to  a very  brief period,  "and                                                               
this is a  type of an election challenge."   He surmised that Ms.                                                               
Kreitzer is envisioning a case  in which an initiative is trumped                                                               
by  legislation,  but he  characterized  this  as a  red  herring                                                               
because if  a legislative  bill trumps  the initiative,  then the                                                               
whole point  is moot.   He then  acknowledged that  someone might                                                               
challenge  the  contention that  the  bill  is  the same  as  the                                                               
initiative.  He said he is  not certain how to solve the problem,                                                               
"but I do  think it's a bad  idea not to have  the process moving                                                               
along and  have the whole  thing in a log  jam at the  very end--                                                               
even after the  election pamphlet [is] printed."  He  asked for a                                                               
suggestion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:30:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KREITZER said she doesn't know  that there is a problem.  She                                                               
relayed that  her office works  with opponents and  proponents of                                                               
initiatives monthly.  She said  the lieutenant governor's website                                                               
shows  that "we  could  have  come into  this  session with  five                                                               
initiatives having  been certified  by the  lieutenant governor."                                                               
She  said as  soon as  an  initiate is  turned in,  the staff  is                                                               
working  on the  language  for the  petition  booklets, which  is                                                               
probably similar  to the ballot  language.  "Although,  I'll tell                                                               
you there  are two of them  right now that were  unhappy to start                                                               
with."  She  said one is 05HUNT [An Act  prohibiting the shooting                                                               
of  wolves and  grizzly  bears with  the use  of  aircraft].   "I                                                               
talked  with  those  folks  and  they had  a  concern  about  the                                                               
language  that  the Department  of  Law  had proposed  for  their                                                               
initiative."   She said she raised  the issues with DOL,  and the                                                               
attorney agreed  with the initiative sponsors,  so the lieutenant                                                               
governor's office changed the language.   Regarding the pesticide                                                               
initiative, she said, "Their attorney  disagrees with the state's                                                               
attorney."   Her  office  works with  the  initiative groups  all                                                               
along, she said.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  offered his  understanding that  for an                                                               
initiative to be on  the ballot, it has to be in  by the time the                                                               
legislature convenes.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KREITZER said  that is  true  if it  is  to go  on the  2006                                                               
general election.   She said  there are  two already on  the 2006                                                               
primary, which has a different deadline.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said that was  the previous year, so "in                                                               
order to get  on the ballot for  the primary, they have  to be in                                                               
by the  odd numbered year, so  you have almost two  years to deal                                                               
with that."  He said the  shortest [timeframe] is for the general                                                               
election, which  need to be in  by the second Monday  in January,                                                               
so the  staff have 151 days  under this legislation to  deal with                                                               
the problem.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KREITZER clarified  that "when you turn in  an initiative you                                                               
have one  year from the  time you  get your petition  booklets to                                                               
file with the lieutenant governor's office."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  said   if  the  lieutenant  governor's                                                               
office is  saying it needs  enough time, the House  State Affairs                                                               
Standing Committee CS  gives the office at least 151  days to "do                                                               
this."  He  noted that that is reasonable because  it is four and                                                               
one half  months from the election.   "And then we  give people a                                                               
reasonable period of  time to file their challenge,  and then the                                                               
court  system has  the  time  to proceed.    That's  all we  were                                                               
asking."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:34:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  noted that  the chair of  the House  State Affairs                                                               
Standing Committee  visited her  and "removed  his desire  to see                                                               
this in  here, along  with the  sponsor of the  bill."   She said                                                               
when  the  committee addressed  the  issue  before it  had  "this                                                               
idealized look  at it, but when  they really sat down  and looked                                                               
at  it  with   the  Division  of  Elections   in  the  lieutenant                                                               
governor's office, it didn't seem  to make sense-the problem that                                                               
the amendments  were addressing really  wasn't fixed."   She said                                                               
she didn't  disagree with Representative Gruenberg,  but that she                                                               
needed  more  information.   She  said  30  days was  not  enough                                                               
[time],  especially   if  it  is   a  ballot  measure   that  the                                                               
legislature wants  to trump.   She stated that  it is a  waste of                                                               
time  to give  an  artificial deadline.    The legislation  would                                                               
"have  to  be  married  with  some  kind  of  limitation  on  the                                                               
plaintiff's right  to then go ahead  and bring the action."   She                                                               
said she  does not know what  the right amount of  time would be,                                                               
and she does not  want to shoot in the dark at  figures.  Her gut                                                               
feeling,  she offered,  is  that there  isn't a  way  to fix  the                                                               
complete logjam and the chaos  "because zealous advocates on both                                                               
sides are  going to use whatever  they have right up  to the last                                                               
minute."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  indicated that he would  be amenable to                                                               
giving the  lieutenant governor 60  plus 30 days, and  that would                                                               
give the courts several months to look at the situation.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said she  has not  been given  compelling evidence                                                               
that  "this  is a  tremendous  problem."   She  suggested  moving                                                               
forward with the three other bills.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:37:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   COGHILL  said   there  are   start  and   finish                                                               
deadlines,  which are  the  general and  primary  elections.   He                                                               
added  that "the  legal  challenge can  happen  anywhere in  that                                                               
arena,  so I  think that  any person  proactive enough  to get  a                                                               
petition ...."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he  is not talking about challenges                                                               
to the initiative itself, only to the title and the synopsis.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL said,  "Then  you  have to  put  it in  a                                                               
booklet...and that's  where the rub's  going to come."   He noted                                                               
that there  is a publishing  deadline, so  "there is a  series of                                                               
deadlines already where  the verbiage is going to  be vetted very                                                               
clearly."   He added that  democracy can be messy,  "but everyone                                                               
gets a bite at the apple."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said that her point  is that in imposing a deadline                                                               
for describing  the ballot  title, "you  face the  argument about                                                               
substantial similarity because  you may not know  what it's going                                                               
to be  yet."  The  legislature adjourning doesn't  mean anything,                                                               
she  noted, and  there could  be a  lot of  energy going  forward                                                               
before realizing it is not to be.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said the  bill does  not deal  with the                                                               
[initiative].                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE said  it deals  with what  is going  to be  on the                                                               
ballot itself.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  said it  is  the  initiative, and  the                                                               
initiative came in its final form  no later than the first day of                                                               
the session.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked, "But will it be on or not?"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said  if it is not on, then  it would be                                                               
a moot  point, "but  they can certainly  draft this  anytime from                                                               
the  first day  of  the session  on.   And  if  it's pulled  it's                                                               
pulled."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE  surmised  then  that  Representative  Gruenberg's                                                               
point is to spend the time drafting it no matter what.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said yes.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. KREITZER  said that the lieutenant  governor understands that                                                               
as initiatives become  more complex, more words  may be necessary                                                               
to describe  them.  She  said he clearly understands  those limit                                                               
changes,  but the  language adopted  in the  House State  Affairs                                                               
Standing  Committee  was  adopted  without  consulting  with  his                                                               
office.  She said the office  has a web site with initiatives and                                                               
where they  stand.  It  is a dynamic  process, she said,  and the                                                               
lieutenant governor is  still in litigation over  the cruise ship                                                               
initiative.    She asked  what  the  amendment  would do  for  an                                                               
initiative  that  is  "still  out   there."    She  stated,  "The                                                               
lieutenant governor  has been on  the other end.   Constitutional                                                               
amendment; definition  of marriage.   He's been on the  other end                                                               
of telling the  lieutenant governor he didn't  like her language.                                                               
We didn't  sue," she said.   She added that  he felt that  it was                                                               
the  lieutenant governor's  prerogative and  it was  incumbent on                                                               
those  who supported  it  to go  out and  get  support for  their                                                               
constitutional amendment.   She added that it is a  new era where                                                               
people sue  over initiatives, and  she does not see  an arbitrary                                                               
deadline as solving that problem.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:44:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WHITNEY  BREWSTER,  Director,  Division of  Elections,  said  the                                                               
fiscal impact  of increasing the  wording in the ballot  title is                                                               
zero but there will be a  fiscal impact to increasing the wording                                                               
of the  summary section.   She gave  an example of  an initiative                                                               
that  has  16 sections,  which  could  be summarized  with  1,625                                                               
words, or  10 times the  previous limits.  Printing  costs, which                                                               
was  $300,000 for  the 2004  election, could  double, she  noted.                                                               
She added that  approximately 800 words will fit on  a ballot, so                                                               
some  initiatives  would  cover  two ballots  if  the  lieutenant                                                               
governor decided  to use the  maximum number of words  allowed in                                                               
the  bill.    She  said  it  would  increase  shipping,  mailing,                                                               
translating and envelope costs.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the fiscal note will be forthcoming.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked  if the increase will  be $300,000 plus                                                               
the listed postal costs.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. BREWSTER  said yes, and  she hasn't  factored in the  cost of                                                               
the initiative material that the initiative sponsors use.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:49:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN   SHIVELY,   Vice   President,  Government   and   Community                                                               
Relations, Holland America, said he is  in support of the CS.  He                                                               
said  his company  is facing  a complex  initiative that  is nine                                                               
pages long  with a number of  sections.  He thinks  voters should                                                               
be  educated  on  what  they   are  voting  on,  and  the  "whole                                                               
initiative  should  be  on  the ballot,"  reducing  the  risk  of                                                               
lawsuits.    He  said  it would  be  unrealistic  and  expensive,                                                               
however.  He urged adoption of the CS.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA said he has  major concerns about a provision                                                               
the [cruise  ship] industry requested be  added to the bill.   He                                                               
said the  industry wants initiatives to  use up to 100  words per                                                               
section.    He   said  the  longer  the   description,  the  more                                                               
convoluted it  can be, which  may deter  a voter from  signing an                                                               
initiative.   He  acknowledged that  there may  be complex  bills                                                               
requiring  further  explanation, but  "it  seems  to me  you  can                                                               
describe  any bill  in 100  words."   He  suggested allowing  the                                                               
lieutenant  governor to  attach  additional  material that  would                                                               
give  the voter  the  option  to read.    Telling the  lieutenant                                                               
governor  to give  a 1,500-word  description that  a voter  would                                                               
need to read prior to  signing an initiative "causes the mischief                                                               
of  over-information to  the point  that you  are going  to deter                                                               
people from signing the initiative," he surmised.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHIVELY  said  he disagrees  with  Representative  Gara  and                                                               
suggested that  people would write less  confusing initiatives if                                                               
the  CS were  to pass.   He  said very  few people  even read  an                                                               
initiative.   "They get a  little statement from the  person that                                                               
has the petition  book" before deciding to sign, he  said, and if                                                               
Representative Gara  is suggesting that voters  get confused with                                                               
too much information, that is not "what democracy is about."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA clarified that he  wanted to offer voters the                                                               
information, not withhold it.   It would be an optional statement                                                               
that  a  voter could  choose  to  read.   He  noted  that he  has                                                               
understood the petitions that he has signed in the past.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHIVELY said  he is not as concerned about  the petition book                                                               
itself  as he  is  about  the ballot;  it  is  important to  have                                                               
additional explanations for people in the voting booth.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:55:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE closed  public testimony, and noted  that Version P                                                               
was before the committee.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  moved to  adopt  Amendment  1, which,  with                                                               
handwritten corrections, read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     p.1., line 7:                                                                                                              
          Delete "25"                                                                                                       
               Insert "15"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     p.2., line 1:                                                                                                              
          Delete "25"                                                                                                       
               Insert "15"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GARA  opined   that  the   voters  need   enough                                                               
information  to "understand  what  they're voting  on.   You  can                                                               
perform mischief by letting the  lieutenant governor's office add                                                               
additional words in  a way where they can  frankly confuse things                                                               
for  the  voters."     He  said  that  has   happened  in  recent                                                               
initiatives causing litigation.  He  added that he can't think of                                                               
a recent  initiative where the  subject can't be described  in 15                                                               
words.  It will be followed  by the 100-word statement anyway, he                                                               
stated, and  he gave  examples.   By allowing  25 words,  it will                                                               
"allow a lieutenant  governor who's trying to  tank an initiative                                                               
the  ability to  obfuscate  when they  should  be clarifying  for                                                               
voters."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  noted that  the bills  in his  packet all                                                               
have more than 15 words in the headings.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:57:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALASH noted that what  is missing from the committee packets                                                               
is a comparison of past  initiatives with prepared summaries.  He                                                               
said he  has two initiatives,  both with  29 words as  written by                                                               
the initiative sponsors.   He said 25 words are  too many in many                                                               
instances and perhaps  too few for others, so rather  than err on                                                               
the side  of restrictions, Senator  Therriault decided to  err on                                                               
the   side  of   caution  by   giving  the   lieutenant  governor                                                               
flexibility.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE   reminded  the  committee  that   the  lieutenant                                                               
governor  could  be with  the  opposite  political party  in  the                                                               
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA said initiative  sponsors were never asked to                                                               
limit themselves to  15 words, which could have  easily been done                                                               
for the aforementioned initiatives.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:00:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll call  vote was taken.  Representative Gara  voted in favor                                                               
of Amendment 1.  Representatives  McGuire, Coghill, Wilson, Kott,                                                               
Anderson and Gruenberg voted against  it.  Therefore, Amendment 1                                                               
failed by a vote of 1-6.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:00:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  moved to  adopt  Amendment  2, labeled  24-                                                               
LS0859\X.2,  Kurtz, 2/3/06,  which  was  edited with  handwritten                                                               
notes to read as follows:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 8:                                                                                                            
          Delete "for each section"                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, lines 9 - 11:                                                                                                      
          Delete "In this subsection, "section" means a                                                                     
     provision  of the  proposed law  that is  distinct from                                                                
     other provisions in purpose or subject matter."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, following line 10:                                                                                                 
          Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                    
        "* Sec. 2.  AS 15.45.180 is amended by  adding a new                                                                
     subsection to read:                                                                                                        
          (c)  If the lieutenant governor believes it is                                                                        
     necessary for  a better understanding by  the public of                                                                    
     a  bill  that is  the  subject  of an  initiative,  the                                                                    
     lieutenant governor may  prepare an additional analysis                                                                    
     that clearly  and concisely states the  purposes of the                                                                    
     proposed initiative.  The analysis  may not  exceed 100                                                                    
     words  a   section.  If,  under  this   subsection,  an                                                                    
     additional  analysis of  a bill  is prepared,  a person                                                                    
     circulating  the  initiative  petition  for  that  bill                                                                    
     shall advise,  both in writing  and orally,  each voter                                                                    
     from  whom  the  person  seeks  a  signature  that  the                                                                    
     additional  analysis is  available  for  review by  the                                                                    
     voter. A circulator shall  have the additional analysis                                                                    
     available for  immediate inspection  by the  voter when                                                                    
     circulating a  petition. In this  subsection, "section"                                                                    
     means a  provision of the  proposed initiative  that is                                                                    
     distinct from  other provisions  in purpose  or subject                                                                    
     matter."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 15, through page 2, line 1:                                                                                   
          Delete "for each section"                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 1 - 4:                                                                                                       
          Delete "In this subsection, "section" means each                                                                  
     section  of the  Alaska statutes  created, amended,  or                                                                
     repealed in the  Act, and each section of  the Act that                                                                
     does not create or amend codified law."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 5:                                                                                                            
          Delete "a new subsection"                                                                                             
          Insert "new subsections"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, following line 7:                                                                                                  
     Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                           
          "(d)  If the lieutenant governor believes it is                                                                       
     necessary for  a better understanding by  the public of                                                                    
     an  Act  that  is  the subject  of  a  referendum,  the                                                                    
     lieutenant governor may  prepare an additional analysis                                                                    
     that clearly  and concisely states the  purposes of the                                                                    
     Act. The analysis  may not exceed 100  words a section.                                                                    
     If an additional analysis of  an Act has been prepared,                                                                    
     a person  circulating the referendum petition  for that                                                                    
     Act  shall advise,  both in  writing  and orally,  each                                                                    
     voter from whom  the person seeks a  signature that the                                                                    
     additional  analysis is  available  for  review by  the                                                                    
     voter. A circulator shall  have the additional analysis                                                                    
     available for  immediate inspection  by the  voter when                                                                    
     circulating a  petition. In this  subsection, "section"                                                                    
     means  each section  of  the  Alaska statutes  created,                                                                    
     amended, or  repealed in the  Act, and each  section of                                                                    
     the Act that does not create or amend codified law."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON objected.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA explained  that  Amendment  2 addresses  the                                                               
cruise ship  industry proposed  provision.   He said  the logical                                                               
order of discussing  a bill is not necessarily the  same order as                                                               
the  sections  of  the  bill.   The  provision  will  lead  to  a                                                               
disjointed description of a bill,  he noted.  "First you're going                                                               
to discuss, in a hundred words,  a very discrete part of the bill                                                               
in  Section 1,  and then  a  very discrete  part of  the bill  in                                                               
Section  2," and  so on.   He  said the  bill is  probably better                                                               
described  as a  whole, instead  of little  pieces of  disjointed                                                               
descriptions  on  a  section-by-section   basis,  which  will  be                                                               
confusing.   He further stated  that 100  words per section  in a                                                               
15-section  bill is  a 1500-word  description, and  "that's mind-                                                               
boggling."   He said if  the lieutenant governor doesn't  like an                                                               
initiative and wants to defeat  it, the initiative will be buried                                                               
in excess words designed to confuse  people.  He said Amendment 2                                                               
states  that  if there  needs  to  be  more  than 100  words  the                                                               
circulator shall carry around a sectional attachment.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  asked if Amendment  2 "removes it from  the ballot                                                               
itself and puts it into the petition that is circulated."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  noted  that  the  amendment  addresses  the                                                               
petition, and he will do a  conceptual amendment to deal with the                                                               
ballot if Amendment  2 passes.  He said the  ballot should have a                                                               
comprehensive   100-word  description   with   a  more   detailed                                                               
description  that followed.    He said  the  ballot shouldn't  be                                                               
written  so  that  the  bill  title is  followed  directly  by  a                                                               
disjointed sectional analysis.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:04:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  said he  is somewhat sympathetic,  and he                                                               
has never been  a big fan of  having to read a ballot  for a half                                                               
hour before voting; however, the  nature of petitions is becoming                                                               
more complex.   He said he felt that voters  did not understand a                                                               
past billboard  vote because  of the limited  wording.   He added                                                               
"if we're  going to allow  people to  have that access  to direct                                                               
democracy, it  has to be  with some deliberation, and  that means                                                               
you have  to have  the information  in front of  them."   He said                                                               
that was what campaigns were for.   He said campaigns give people                                                               
an idea  of what is  going to be  on the  ballot.  He  noted that                                                               
"brand new verbiage  before you get to the  ballot--you will feel                                                               
that you have been had by your  government."  He said he would be                                                               
nervous  about not  having a  summary of  a section.   "If  we're                                                               
going to  go to  the people and  say you want  to change  a whole                                                               
title of your law,  then they better get a good shot  at it."  He                                                               
concluded that  100 words might  represent the changing  of 1,000                                                               
words in law.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  said he doesn't disagree  with those points,                                                               
but a  100-word description of  the bill  should come first.   If                                                               
the  lieutenant governor  decides the  issue is  complex, then  a                                                               
section by section  explanation can follow, he  said, "but you've                                                               
got  to make  it readable,  and the  sectional without  a sponsor                                                               
statement, like we do in our bills ... is not readable."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL agreed  but pointed out that  there are no                                                               
sponsor statements  on ballots.   The description should  be read                                                               
by voters in the election booklet, he said.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said, "You hope people do it, but ...".                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  said  every   registered  voter  gets  a                                                               
pamphlet.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:08:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA withdrew Amendment 2.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA moved Conceptual  Amendment 3, hoping to meld                                                               
his concerns with Representative Coghill's concerns.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON objected for discussion.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA said Conceptual Amendment 3 will be:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     For  both the  circulating  petition  that people  read                                                                    
     when  they're  signing  the   initiative  and  for  the                                                                    
     ballot, there shall be a  statement of the bill that is                                                                    
     up to  100 words,  which is just  like the  current law                                                                    
     right now.   Following  the statement  of the  bill, if                                                                    
     the lieutenant  governor determines that the  100 words                                                                    
     wasn't enough, there shall be  a sectional of up to 100                                                                    
     words per section.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  explained  that,  "this  way  you  have  in                                                               
laymen's terms  100 words that  describe the bill to  people, and                                                               
then the  analysis that goes  section by  section.  If  you don't                                                               
have  the  laymen's description  first,  it's  going to  be  very                                                               
confusing  for  people  in  the   ballot  box  and  when  they're                                                               
signing."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL noted that the  title has been expanded to                                                               
25 words,  which nearly constitutes  a summary.  "I'm  happy that                                                               
25 words can get  that done," he added.  He  said he is concerned                                                               
that a  policy statement and  then the specifics could  weary the                                                               
voter.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE remarked  that the  nice thing  about the  bill is                                                               
that it  currently says "in not  more than 100 words."   She said                                                               
it doesn't have  to be 100 words  and that goes to  the spirit of                                                               
[conceptual  amendment 3].    She stated  that  it is  absolutely                                                               
critical  that people  understand what  they are  voting on,  and                                                               
when she  reads a bill  she tries  to skip the  sponsor statement                                                               
and read  what a  bill really  does because it  is easy  to gloss                                                               
over  details  in   the  statement.    She  added   that  she  is                                                               
comfortable with  the proposed change,  but she doesn't  know how                                                               
it  will  play out  in  reality.   She  thinks  it  will be  more                                                               
informative to  describe the  sections, but she  does not  have a                                                               
"burning opposition" to the amendment.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA said  that  a sponsor  statement  in a  bill                                                               
could present  a one-sided argument,  but the law  on initiatives                                                               
and  referenda  is that  it  must  be  objective.   The  100-word                                                               
statement has to  be objective.  The sponsor of  the bill doesn't                                                               
think  the 25-word  title is  enough,  he argued.   A  lieutenant                                                               
governor who  is trying to play  games is going to  use 100 words                                                               
for every section,  and that is why a  one-time concise statement                                                               
is necessary, he stated.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:14:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representative Gara  and Gruenberg                                                               
voted  in  favor  of Conceptual  Amendment  3.    Representatives                                                               
McGuire,  Coghill, Wilson,  Kott and  Anderson voted  against it.                                                               
Therefore, Conceptual Amendment 3 failed by a vote of 2-5.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:14:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved to adopt Amendment 4.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL objected.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  relayed that  Amendment 4 goes  back to                                                               
the House State  Affairs Standing Committee CS  with the addition                                                               
of a  requirement that  any suit challenging  the wording  of the                                                               
ballot  title or  proposition must  be  filed within  30 days  of                                                               
being  submitted  to  the  director.     He  said  it  gives  the                                                               
administration 120  days to  prepare the  title and  the summary.                                                               
He noted that  it is certainly adequate, and it  gives another 30                                                               
days  for  a  total  of  151  days.   He  said  that  the  people                                                               
challenging will  only have 30 days  to file a suit,  and it will                                                               
allow the  process to proceed  in an orderly fashion  without the                                                               
expense of printing  two sets of ballots.  He  then surmised that                                                               
he may have caused an  inadvertent problem regarding the date the                                                               
election pamphlet needs to be in.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. KREITZER recollected that it is July 1 or August 1.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said he  thought it  was July  1, which                                                               
might make his deadlines too long.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KREITZER  said  that  is  not  the  only  problem  with  the                                                               
deadlines.   She  said  there is  another  deadline for  absentee                                                               
ballots, but she  would be willing to work with  him to solve the                                                               
problem.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG withdrew Amendment 4.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  moved  to  adopt  Conceptual  Amendment  5,                                                               
labeled  24-LS0859\X.1,  Kurtz,   2/3/06,  as  follows  [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 4, following "governor":                                                                                      
          Insert "shall appoint a ballot proposition                                                                        
     committee to prepare"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 5:                                                                                                            
          Delete "shall prepare"                                                                                                
          Insert "[SHALL PREPARE]"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, following line 10:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
        "* Sec.  2.  AS 15.45.180  is amended by  adding new                                                                
     subsections to read:                                                                                                       
          (c)  The lieutenant governor shall appoint five                                                                       
     individuals  to   the  ballot   proposition  committee,                                                                    
     including                                                                                                                  
               (1)  two proponents of the initiative, at                                                                        
     least one  of whom must  be a member of  the initiative                                                                    
     committee;                                                                                                                 
               (2)  two opponents of the initiative; and                                                                        
               (3)  one individual from a list of three                                                                         
     submitted by  the chief justice  of the  Alaska Supreme                                                                    
     Court.                                                                                                                     
          (d)  The committee shall submit the ballot title                                                                      
     and proposition  to the  lieutenant governor  not later                                                                    
     than 30 days  after the date of the  adjournment of the                                                                    
     first  regular legislative  session convened  after the                                                                    
     petition is filed.                                                                                                         
          (e)  The lieutenant governor shall review the                                                                         
     ballot  title and  proposition  prepared  under (a)  of                                                                    
     this  section and  make any  changes necessary  to make                                                                    
     the proposition true and impartial.   Not later than 10                                                                    
     days after  receiving the ballot title  and proposition                                                                    
     from  the  committee,  the  lieutenant  governor  shall                                                                    
     complete the  review and provide  the ballot  title and                                                                    
     proposition  to  the  director.     If  the  lieutenant                                                                    
     governor  makes  any changes  to  the  ballot title  or                                                                    
     proposition  prepared under  (a) of  this section,  the                                                                    
     lieutenant  governor shall  also  provide the  director                                                                    
     with a written explanation of those changes."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, lines 12 - 14:                                                                                                     
          Delete "The lieutenant governor, with the                                                                             
     assistance  of the  attorney general,  shall prepare  a                                                                    
     ballot title and proposition  upon determining that the                                                                    
     petition is properly filed"                                                                                                
          Insert "If the petition is properly filed, the                                                                    
     lieutenant governor shall  appoint a ballot proposition                                                                
     committee  to  prepare,  with  the  assistance  of  the                                                                
     attorney general,  a ballot title and  proposition [THE                                                                
     LIEUTENANT  GOVERNOR,   WITH  THE  ASSISTANCE   OF  THE                                                                    
     ATTORNEY  GENERAL, SHALL  PREPARE  A  BALLOT TITLE  AND                                                                    
     PROPOSITION  UPON  DETERMINING  THAT  THE  PETITION  IS                                                                    
     PROPERLY FILED]"                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 5 - 7:                                                                                                       
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
        "* Sec.  4.  AS 15.45.410  is amended by  adding new                                                                
     subsections to read:                                                                                                       
          (c)  The lieutenant governor shall appoint five                                                                       
     individuals  to   the  ballot   proposition  committee,                                                                    
     including                                                                                                                  
               (1)  two proponents of the referendum, at                                                                        
     least one  of whom must  be a member of  the referendum                                                                    
     committee;                                                                                                                 
               (2)  two opponents of the referendum; and                                                                        
               (3)  one individual from a list of three                                                                         
     submitted by  the chief justice  of the  Alaska Supreme                                                                    
     Court.                                                                                                                     
          (d)  The committee shall submit the ballot title                                                                      
     and proposition  to the  lieutenant governor  not later                                                                    
     than 55 days after the date the petition is filed.                                                                         
          (e)  The lieutenant governor shall review the                                                                         
     ballot  title and  proposition  prepared  under (a)  of                                                                    
     this  section and  make any  changes necessary  to make                                                                    
     the  proposition true  and impartial.   Not  later than                                                                    
     five  days   after  receiving  the  ballot   title  and                                                                    
     proposition   from   the  committee,   the   lieutenant                                                                    
     governor  shall complete  the  review  and provide  the                                                                    
     ballot title and  proposition to the director.   If the                                                                    
     lieutenant  governor makes  any changes  to the  ballot                                                                    
     title  or  proposition  prepared   under  (a)  of  this                                                                    
     section,  the lieutenant  governor  shall also  provide                                                                    
     the  director  with  a  written  explanation  of  those                                                                    
     changes."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA said  the original  concept was  proposed by                                                               
Senator Elton's office.   The amendment addresses  times when the                                                               
lieutenant governor  is hostile to  a petition, and to  prevent a                                                               
lieutenant  governor   from  confusing   voters  it   requires  a                                                               
committee to draft  the language.  The committee  will consist of                                                               
two members who support the initiative  and two who oppose it and                                                               
one member  appointed by  the court,  he explained.   He  said it                                                               
will  hopefully  lead to  a  more  objective summary,  especially                                                               
since  the legislation  before the  committee will  lead to  more                                                               
mischief by the  lieutenant governor's office.   The summary will                                                               
then be reviewed by the lieutenant governor, he said.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  said she doesn't think  the amendment will                                                               
do  anything because  the individuals  will be  appointed by  the                                                               
lieutenant governor.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  said  the   lieutenant  governor  would  be                                                               
limited in those  four appointments, and the  court would appoint                                                               
the fifth person.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE remarked  that the amendment is  interesting but it                                                               
is almost a  completely new bill, and she will  oppose it because                                                               
she has not had time to speak with the bill's sponsor.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:21:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representative Gara  and Gruenberg                                                               
voted  in  favor  of Conceptual  Amendment  5.    Representatives                                                               
McGuire,  Coghill, Wilson,  Kott and  Anderson voted  against it.                                                               
Therefore, Conceptual Amendment 5 failed by a vote of 2-5.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:22:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ANDERSON  moved  to  report  the  proposed  House                                                               
committee  substitute  (HCS)  for SB  172,  version  24-LS0859\P,                                                               
Kurtz, 2/03/03, out of  committee with individual recommendations                                                               
and the  accompanying fiscal notes.   Hearing no  objections, HCS                                                               
SB  172(JUD) was  reported out  of the  House Judiciary  Standing                                                               
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALASH announced that the fiscal note would be forthcoming.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SB 132 - HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:23:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced that the  next order of business would be                                                               
SENATE BILL NO.  132, "An Act relating to  complaints filed with,                                                               
investigations, hearings,  and orders  of, and the  interest rate                                                               
on  awards  of the  State  Commission  for Human  Rights;  making                                                               
conforming amendments; and providing for an effective date."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:24:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RANDY RUARO,  Legislative Liaison,  Department of  Law, suggested                                                               
that  the committee  deal  with a  pending  amendment offered  by                                                               
Representative Gara.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA said he will not offer Amendment 5.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:26 p.m. to 2:29 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:29:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA moved  Amendment  6, labeled  24-GS1110\G.1,                                                               
Kane, 1/18/06, as follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 2:                                                                                                            
          Delete "and"                                                                                                        
          Insert "providing for attorney fees and costs in                                                                    
     cases involving human rights violations;"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 3, following "amendments":                                                                                  
          Insert "; and amending Rule 82, Alaska Rules of                                                                   
     Civil Procedure"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, following line 15:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
        "*  Sec. 11.  AS 18.80 is  amended by  adding a  new                                                                
     section to article 2 to read:                                                                                              
          Sec. 18.80.147. Attorney fees and costs. (a) In                                                                     
     an action brought by a  person under AS 22.10.020(i), a                                                                    
     prevailing   plaintiff  shall   be  awarded   costs  as                                                                    
     provided  by court  rule and  full reasonable  attorney                                                                    
     fees at the prevailing reasonable rate.                                                                                    
          (b)  Unless the action is found to be frivolous,                                                                      
     in   an    action   brought    by   a    person   under                                                                    
     AS 22.10.020(i),  a   prevailing  defendant   shall  be                                                                    
     awarded attorney  fees and costs  as provided  by court                                                                    
     rule.  If the  action  is found  to  be frivolous,  the                                                                    
     attorney fees to  be awarded to the  defendant shall be                                                                    
     full  reasonable   attorney  fees  at   the  prevailing                                                                    
     reasonable rate.                                                                                                           
          (c)  In this section, "frivolous" means                                                                               
               (1)  not reasonably based on evidence or on                                                                      
     existing law  or a reasonable  extension, modification,                                                                    
     or reversal of existing law; or                                                                                            
               (2)  brought to harass the defendant or to                                                                       
     cause unnecessary delay or needless expense."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 7, following line 3:                                                                                                  
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
        "*  Sec. 15.  The  uncodified law  of  the State  of                                                                
     Alaska is amended by adding a new section to read:                                                                         
          INDIRECT COURT RULE AMENDMENT. The provisions of                                                                      
     sec. 11  of this Act  have the effect of  changing Rule                                                                    
     82, Alaska  Rules of Civil Procedure,  by requiring the                                                                    
     award  of  full  reasonable attorney  fees  in  certain                                                                    
     cases."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 7, line 7:                                                                                                            
          Delete "secs. 1 - 13"                                                                                                 
          Insert "secs. 1 - 14"                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL objected.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  explained that  the Human  Rights Commission                                                               
(HRC)  is  short-staff,  which   causes  statute  of  limitations                                                               
problems.    He  said  the   HRC  cuts  off  claims  earlier  and                                                               
represents fewer  people.  He noted  that the mission of  the HRC                                                               
is  to help  people  obtain  justice if  they  were  a victim  of                                                               
discrimination, "and  so the  whole idea that  we should  solve a                                                               
problem by saying, OK, here's an  easier way for you to represent                                                               
fewer  people, doesn't  really go  to  the mission  of the  HCR."                                                               
Amendment 6 adds language used in  a number of other areas of the                                                               
law, including consumer  protection and landlord/tenant statutes,                                                               
he said.  He explained that  if an individual prevails on a valid                                                               
claim, that person will be  entitled to compensation for attorney                                                               
fees and  costs.  Currently,  victims have difficulty  getting an                                                               
attorney for small cases, he stated.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  told the committee  that there is  a concept                                                               
in the law called "privatizing  the attorney general" that allows                                                               
a  person to  get  a  private attorney  and  get compensated  for                                                               
attorney fees if  he or she prevails.   He said it  will save the                                                               
state  money,  and  it  finds   a  remedy  for  true  victims  of                                                               
discrimination.   If  a case  is frivolous,  the individual  will                                                               
have  to pay  for  the  defendant's costs,  he  said, creating  a                                                               
disincentive  for  people  to  sue  with  marginal  claims.    It                                                               
protects  people   who  are  truly  victims   of  discrimination,                                                               
recognizes  that the  HRC is  short-staffed  and protects  people                                                               
against frivolous claims, he concluded.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:34:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG discussed  the  need  for a  two-thirds                                                               
majority  to change  procedural  rules and  whether  or not  this                                                               
amendment actually  does that.   He said  he always  thought Rule                                                               
82, Alaska  Rules of  Civil Procedure,  was an  interpretive rule                                                               
and not  a procedural rule,  and thus the legislature  would only                                                               
need a majority to adopt this change.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA said  that the  legislative legal  staff put                                                               
the requirement  of a  court rule  change in  the amendment  as a                                                               
note of caution.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  asked if an attorney  for the plaintiff                                                               
would get  a contingency fee based  on the contingent fee  or the                                                               
Rule 82 fee.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA offered  his understanding  that it  is what                                                               
the court determines is reasonable.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  said  that normally  these  cases  are                                                               
taken  on a  contingent fee  from a  plaintiff, and  a prevailing                                                               
reasonable rate indicates an hourly rate.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA concurred.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if the  language is identical to the language                                                               
in consumer protection laws.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA said he has  a cover letter from the Division                                                               
of  Legal and  Research Services  saying the  language was  taken                                                               
directly  from  the Unfair  Trade  Practices  Act provisions  for                                                               
attorney fees.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:38:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked if  "frivolous" has the same meaning                                                               
in the amendment as in the Unfair Trade Practices Act.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  said, "Yes, it  would be a claim  filed with                                                               
no good faith basis in factor law."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  said his concern  is that there  would be                                                               
"differing  bars" in  human  rights issues  as  opposed to  labor                                                               
practices.  He  added, "I'm just concerned that  in human rights,                                                               
frivolous might  have two problems.   One is the  chilling effect                                                               
of having  a bar that  might be higher-I  don't know.   The other                                                               
one  is that  in  court, how  you would  have  a subjective  case                                                               
appear under  the fair labor standards.   So I'm just  nervous; I                                                               
just don't know.  And, are  we importing a standard that actually                                                               
applies in the situation that we're trying to apply it?"                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE  noted  that  Rule  11,  Federal  Rules  of  Civil                                                               
Procedures,  says that  there  must  be a  good  faith basis  for                                                               
presenting  a  case.   She  said  there  is already  a  frivolity                                                               
element that  must be factored in.   She added that  this is just                                                               
extending it  out, and it  is not a new  concept.  In  giving the                                                               
opportunity to  recover reasonable attorney  fees, Representative                                                               
Gara wants to  make it clear that that shouldn't  be an incentive                                                               
for  people to  get  counsel.   She  offered  an example  wherein                                                               
someone  files  a  false  claim against  someone  and  is  simply                                                               
abusing the system.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  said  labor  practice  issues  are  more                                                               
easily  provable  because  there   will  be  employment  and  pay                                                               
records, whereas  in human rights,  frivolity could be  harder to                                                               
prove.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA noted  that  it really  doesn't matter  what                                                               
area of law, frivolous means there  were no true facts to support                                                               
a claim.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL noted  that  the bill  has timelines  and                                                               
rules for complaining,  and now "you get down to  my word against                                                               
your word in these particular cases."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  said there  is  also  Rule 95,  Alaska                                                               
Rules of  Civil Procedure, and  federal Rule 11  allows sanctions                                                               
if an attorney signs something that  is frivolous.  He added that                                                               
Alaska  has gotten  a  bit away  from that  because  Rule 95  was                                                               
adopted, which  says an attorney can  be fined up to  $50,000 for                                                               
filing a frivolous lawsuit.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:45:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO  said there  were four reasons  to oppose  Amendment 6.                                                               
He said  the language doesn't fit  the title.  The  second reason                                                               
is because Superior  Court Judge Collins said  the legislature is                                                               
restricted on enacting attorney fee rules by statute, he stated.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  interjected to  say, "I think  she said                                                               
that we  didn't do  it by  a two-thirds vote  and have  it comply                                                               
with the rule, but this would cure that problem."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO said the other point  is he doesn't know that there has                                                               
been a  showing that current  Rule 82 fees haven't  been adequate                                                               
in these cases.  "I don't know that there is a need for it."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  asked  then  why  have  a  Human  Rights                                                               
Commission.   "Is it a  safety valve or  a whole new  avenue?" he                                                               
queried.  He  said he is not  sure if that is  what the committee                                                               
is going  to do.   He said, "Certainly,  I'm not one  that thinks                                                               
that if  you're going to  have a system  of appeal based  on your                                                               
human rights that you wouldn't want to  bar a way to go to court.                                                               
But it seems  to me that we've  designed a way to  go through the                                                               
Human Rights  Commission.   So now, if  we start  another avenue,                                                               
I'm not  too sure that  that's the right  policy call."   He said                                                               
maybe it is  worthwhile to have a recourse for  an individual who                                                               
gets a wrong  decision from the HRC.   "If they refuse  to make a                                                               
decision,  I  guess  then  the  question would  be  what  is  the                                                               
recourse to an  individual, because I think  that's the intention                                                               
of the amendment," he said.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE noted  that  the  first approach  was  to give  an                                                               
individual a year  to bring a case.  But  the HRC repeatedly said                                                               
there are  some legitimate cases  that will be "cut  off" because                                                               
the budget isn't enough to  support the committee's language that                                                               
gives an  individual a year to  file.  She said  this [amendment]                                                               
may  not  be the  preferred  route  but  there are  human  rights                                                               
violations occurring  and the state  does not  want to make  it a                                                               
priority by committing to it in  the budget beyond 180 days.  She                                                               
said the  first question to ask  is if committee members  want to                                                               
commit to supporting plaintiffs beyond  the 180-day limit, and if                                                               
not,  members ought  to vote  against the  amendment and  vote to                                                               
rescind the  [provision] that  increases the  time period  to 365                                                               
days.    She  said  if   members  believe  in  making  that  time                                                               
extension, there are  only a couple of avenues to  solve it.  One                                                               
is to keep  it there and provide adequate funding  and the second                                                               
is to do something akin to Amendment  6.  She agreed that it is a                                                               
policy  shift,   but  the  same   thing  is  done   for  consumer                                                               
protection, for example.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  noted that the  language is a way  to expand                                                               
access to justice  without spending state money.   The only other                                                               
alternative,  he stated,  was to  tell the  governor to  put more                                                               
money into  the HRC.   The governor has  decided not to  do that.                                                               
He said  people will have  the option of going  to the HRC  or to                                                               
court.    [Those options]  are  not  changing,  he said,  but  an                                                               
individual will be able to go to court "more feasibly."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:51:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said Mr.  Ruaro raised two  issues that                                                               
the committee has  not discussed, including the  title, which can                                                               
be  solved with  a concurrent  resolution.   With  regard to  the                                                               
difficulty in  getting counsel, he suggested  that Representative                                                               
Gara  speak to  that since  he has  practiced in  that area.   He                                                               
noted that he had an equal-pay  case and the only reason the case                                                               
could  be  carried through  was  because  the standard  was  full                                                               
attorney fees on an hourly basis.   "So it is very important that                                                               
we do  this," he  opined.  He  spoke to  Representative Coghill's                                                               
question of why  have a HCR if  Amendment 6 passes.   He said the                                                               
HCR  has the  authority  not  to take  any  case,  just like  any                                                               
prosecutor, he said, and that [decision] is non-reviewable.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO  said Representatives  Gruenberg and Gara  are speaking                                                               
from the  position of  being solo practitioners,  and he  said he                                                               
once was  an associate in  a [law] firm and  was a fixed  cost to                                                               
that firm.   He said  there are firms  that will not  be burdened                                                               
with  an  associate taking  on  a  case.    He also  opined  that                                                               
employment discrimination is an area  with a lot of confusion; it                                                               
is often a  he-said-she-said situation.  The  HCR dismisses about                                                               
65 percent of its cases  because there is no substantial evidence                                                               
of discrimination.   He  said if the  amendment is  adopted, then                                                               
"everyone  of those  employers who  was  found not  to have  done                                                               
anything wrong,  basically, would be  subject to a  demand letter                                                               
that says, 'you need to pay now  or you're going to be subject to                                                               
full attorney's fees later.'"  It  ratchets up the leverage for a                                                               
settlement, so a lot of employers  who did nothing wrong will get                                                               
one  of those  letters,  he warned.   He  said  Rule 82  provides                                                               
sufficient recovery for fees currently.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:55:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ANDERSON surmised  then, that  two-thirds of  the                                                               
time there  is no merit,  but [employers] will get  a threatening                                                               
letter saying they will pay attorney  fees and costs.  He said he                                                               
has been in the opposite case in defending the employer.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO concurred.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if the  amendment fails, will Mr. Ruaro still                                                               
push his position of withdrawal of Amendment 3.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  RUARO  explained  that he  has  worked  with  Representative                                                               
Anderson on  a replacement to  Amendment 3, which would  take out                                                               
any reference  to a  statute of  limitations as  a set  period of                                                               
time and  leave it  at the discretion  of the HRC  as it  is now.                                                               
Since  the  statute  is  a   function  of  policy  and  available                                                               
resources, it  would be best for  the HRC to continue  to control                                                               
it.  He said the HRC has done it that way for quite a few years.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said that really means  that you would go  back to                                                               
180 days.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO concurred, but the HRC could review it.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:57 p.m. to 2:58 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:57:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  remarked  that  Mr.  Ruaro  shouldn't  have                                                               
spoken  about Representative  Gara's law  practice.   He said  he                                                               
doesn't understand  Mr. Ruaro's  comment about working  for large                                                               
firms.  The reason people  can't get representation in employment                                                               
cases is that Rule 82 says  that attorneys get only 20 percent of                                                               
their  fees and  costs when  they win  their case,  he noted.   A                                                               
person with a small case  won't get paid representation, and that                                                               
is the whole point of the  Consumer Protection Act and labor laws                                                               
and of this  amendment, he stated.   "If you have a  good case we                                                               
want you to be able to  get your recovery of your attorney's fees                                                               
so that  you can  say to  an attorney from  the outset,  'Look, I                                                               
don't  have  a   very  big  case,  but  if  we   win  you'll  get                                                               
compensated.'"                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON  said Representative  Gara does  not have                                                               
statistics to  show that people  not going to attorneys  for such                                                               
cases.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA said that the  committee is spending too much                                                               
time talking about the subject, but  he had "a lot of people come                                                               
to the  law firm...with  employment cases."   He said  damages in                                                               
employment cases tend to be very low.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:00:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A  roll call  vote was  taken.   Representative Gara,  Gruenberg,                                                               
Kott and McGuire voted in  favor of Amendment 6.  Representatives                                                               
Coghill,  Wilson  and  Anderson  voted against  it.    Therefore,                                                               
Amendment 6 carried by a vote of 4-3.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ANDERSON moved  to offer  Amendment 7  as follows                                                               
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 3:                                                                                                            
          Delete "new subsections"                                                                                              
          Insert "a new subsection"                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 7-9:                                                                                                         
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG objected.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ANDERSON explained  that Amendment  7 provides  a                                                               
deletion  on page  2  "so there  is not  plural  of reference  to                                                               
subsections for  lines 4 through  6, related and attached  to the                                                               
meat of  the amendment, which  is deleting  lines 7 through  9 on                                                               
page 2,  which states  that a  complaint can  be filed  not later                                                               
than 180 days.   And what that  means is that we're  taking out a                                                               
reference in the bill setting a  statute of limitations to file a                                                               
charge through the commission.  And  it would revert back to what                                                               
the  current  regulations  state.     And  my  opinion,  and  the                                                               
Department of  Law's opinion, was  that the statute that  we have                                                               
here is really  a function of policy and it's  better to leave it                                                               
to the regulations to interpret how  many days you have to grieve                                                               
or to make a complaint.  And  that that will be evolving and will                                                               
change relative to the commission  and regulatory oversight.  And                                                               
it  shouldn't  be  indelible  in statute."    He  questioned  the                                                               
effects  of  the last  amendment  and  if  Amendment 7  is  still                                                               
necessary.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO suggested that Amendment 7 is still necessary.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:03:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE relayed that she  supports either concept, and that                                                               
human  rights  are  very  important.    She  added  that  she  is                                                               
sympathetic to  testimony from  the department  and the  HRC that                                                               
there aren't enough resources "and  there needs to be a reduction                                                               
in time  from what this  committee decided, then I  am supportive                                                               
of Representative Gara's policy of  allowing some of the folks in                                                               
the private sector to have an  incentive to pick up the work that                                                               
needs to  be done to  ensure that we have  a good basis  of human                                                               
rights in this  state."  When people  are "sexually discriminated                                                               
against" or discriminated  against based on their  gender or skin                                                               
color, it  is sensitive and  the tendency, especially  for women,                                                               
is to put it aside and try to  work through the issues and put on                                                               
a brave  face, she said.   A complaint filed after  180 days does                                                               
not negate its  reality, she added.  "It may  be that that person                                                               
tries  to work  it  out,  and within  a  year  they realize  they                                                               
can't," she  stated.  She said  her instinct is that  "the minute                                                               
that this committee...adjourns, ...you guys  are going to come up                                                               
with an  action plan for  how to withdraw the  substantive policy                                                               
of Representative Gara's  amendment.  And so that  when this bill                                                               
appears on the floor, it's going  to not only have that provision                                                               
out, but  it's going  to have  a reversal of  the days,  which is                                                               
unacceptable to me."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO noted  that with regard to the  statute of limitations,                                                               
he  said  that   one  would  still  have   the  Equal  Employment                                                               
Opportunity  Commission (EEOC)  available with  a 300-day  limit.                                                               
He said  he found  out that the  two-year statute  of limitations                                                               
for the  court system provides  access to Rule 100,  Alaska Rules                                                               
of  Civil  Procedure,  which  says  that  a  party  can  ask  for                                                               
mediation and arbitration.  He said  he thinks there are a lot of                                                               
different avenues.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:07:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE asked  what the  basis is  for filing  a Rule  100                                                               
claim.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO  explained that "basically  the party has to  desire to                                                               
have  mediation or  arbitration occur.   I  haven't seen  a court                                                               
deny a motion yet.  I  filed several of them in private practice;                                                               
they were never denied."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she is not  that compelled by the EEOC because                                                               
she doesn't  support making  a policy  stating that  human rights                                                               
are a  federal issue, and the  state doesn't need to  worry about                                                               
them.  She said she is willing to explore Rule 100.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:08:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said he is  not aware of  anywhere else                                                               
in  the law  where the  legislative authority  is delegated  on a                                                               
statute of  limitations, which is traditionally  statutory, to an                                                               
executive agency.   He surmised that that  is an unconstitutional                                                               
delegation of authority.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO said he doesn't have a  case, but he thinks it has been                                                               
that way for over 10 years.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said that  would have some  weight, but                                                               
not  a lot  if it  has never  been challenged.   He  is concerned                                                               
about going on record delegating to  the agency.  With respect to                                                               
Rule 100, it is a general  mediation, so "why have a human rights                                                               
commission  if you're  going  to  turn these  cases  all over  to                                                               
general arbitration or mediation?"   He said he doesn't know that                                                               
there's  any authority  under this  to order  arbitration without                                                               
stipulation of the parties.   Mediation is nonbinding, he pointed                                                               
out.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  remarked that Mr. Ruaro's  reference to Rule                                                               
100  bolsters the  case  for [Amendment  6].   He  said a  person                                                               
cannot get mediation  unless there is a lawsuit,  and that person                                                               
will not  be able to find  an attorney to file  a lawsuit without                                                               
the amendment.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO disagreed that there  is an inability to find attorneys                                                               
for such  cases.  He  said small cases  provide some of  the best                                                               
returns in dollars per hours, based on his own experience.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:12:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked if those were human rights cases.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUARO said no.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  contended that  human rights cases  are very                                                               
different.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:12:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote  was taken.   Representative Anderson  voted in                                                               
favor of Amendment 7.   Representatives McGuire, Coghill, Wilson,                                                               
Kott,  Gara   and  Gruenberg  voted   against  it.     Therefore,                                                               
Amendment 7 failed by a vote of 1-6.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:13:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG moved  to  report HCS  SB 132(STA),  as                                                               
amended,  out of  committee with  individual recommendations  and                                                               
the accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 3:14 p.m. to 3:14 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE,  after determining that there  were no objections,                                                               
announced HCS SB  132(JUD) was reported from  the House Judiciary                                                               
Standing Committee.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG moved  that the  committee introduce  a                                                               
concurrent  resolution approving  a title  change to  reflect the                                                               
amendments.  Hearing no objections, it was so ordered.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  moved to  waive  the  referral of  the                                                               
concurrent resolution to the  House Judiciary Standing Committee,                                                               
"so it can go directly to the floor with the bill."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  said he  thinks it  would be  referred to                                                               
the next committee of referral.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said okay.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON noted that if  the bill changes, then the                                                               
House Concurrent Resolution will be meaningless.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
[HCS SB 132(JUD) was reported from committee.]                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HB 379 - CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, INCL. ANALOGS                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:15:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  announced that the  final order of  business would                                                               
be  HOUSE   BILL  NO.  379,   "An  Act  relating   to  controlled                                                               
substances."    She  noted  that   the  committee  was  still  on                                                               
Version G, and that  she had amendments that she  agreed to offer                                                               
on behalf of the sponsor.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI,  staff to Representative Kevin  Meyer, sponsor                                                               
of  HB  379, relayed  that,  according  to  the chemists  at  the                                                               
[Alaska's  Scientific  Crime  Detection  Laboratory],  there  are                                                               
legitimate  industrial uses  for the  analogues to  Gamma Hydroxy                                                               
Butyrate  (GHB).    Thus,  Amendment 1  seeks  to  protect  those                                                               
limited  uses.   Amendment 1,  labeled 24-LS1396\G.1,  Luckhaupt,                                                               
2/6/06, reads as follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, lines 13-14:                                                                                                       
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
       "(2) when intended or used for human consumption:                                                                        
               (A) gamma butyrolactone(GBL);                                                                                    
               (B) 1,4 butanediol(BD);                                                                                          
               (C) gamma hydroxyvalerate(GHV);                                                                                  
          (D) gamma-valerolactone 4-pentanolide(GVL)."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI  said Amendment  1 adds  GHV and  GVL to  the bill,                                                               
which are  federally recognized analogs  to GHB that  the [United                                                               
States]  Drug  Enforcement  Agency  has identified.    It  is  in                                                               
conjunction with Amendment 2, he added.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:17:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS BEHEIM, Supervisor,  Scientific Crime Detection Laboratory,                                                               
Anchorage,  said  he  agrees  that  GHV and  GVL  are  listed  as                                                               
analogs, and  there are  legitimate uses  for the  1,4 butanediol                                                               
and  GBL as  solvents, but  he can't  say that  they are  used in                                                               
Alaska for  any purpose.   They are  used for the  manufacture of                                                               
plastics and certain fibers, he said,  but it makes sense to have                                                               
them controlled for illicit uses.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:18:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE   moved  to  adopt   Amendment  1.     Hearing  no                                                               
objections, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  moved to  adopt Amendment  2 as  follows [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 15, through page 2, line 23:                                                                                  
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill section accordingly.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PAWLOWSKI said  Section 2  of the  bill was  broad and  over                                                               
reaching-regulating "chemicals that we didn't want to touch."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Hearing no objections, Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  said  he  wants   to  make  sure  that  the                                                               
legislation only outlines  substances that are being  used in the                                                               
"date rape" drug  and nothing beyond that.  He  said that on page                                                               
1, line  6, it  says "any of  these materials...or  which contain                                                               
any  of its  salts or  isomers."   He asked  if subsets  of these                                                               
chemicals are  made illegal by  the legislation and if  there are                                                               
legitimate uses for them.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BEHEIM  noted  that  there  are  legitimate  uses  for  GHB,                                                               
including  a prescription  drug that  is categorized  as schedule                                                               
III federally;  however, the GHB  that is most  encountered would                                                               
be  in the  illicit form.   He  said the  GHB comes  in different                                                               
forms: an acid or a salt of an acid.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked if the  bill should be more detailed to                                                               
protect legal uses.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEHEIM  said that  in the  federal schedule,  GHB is  in both                                                               
schedule I--which has no legitimate  use-and in schedule III.  He                                                               
said  if it  is  abused,  the schedule  III  substance becomes  a                                                               
schedule I substance.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:21:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PAWLOWSKI  relayed  that  salts   or  isomers  are  standard                                                               
descriptions, and  making a  salt is something  that he  is vague                                                               
about.  He  said with the language of "when  intended or used for                                                               
human consumption,"  he believes that  the bill is  "getting away                                                               
from legitimate uses."  He added,  "As to the medical side of it,                                                               
I'm  honestly not  sure, but  I thought  that was  exempted under                                                               
Controlled Substances  Act because  of the way  you get  into the                                                               
violation in the first place."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BEHEIM gave  an  example  with regard  to  salts.   He  said                                                               
cocaine is  encountered in  two forms,  one as  the hydrochloride                                                               
salt and the other is as the  base, which is crack cocaine.  Many                                                               
drugs come in many forms, he  added, and there are also different                                                               
isomers.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  said  he  just  wants  to  make  sure  that                                                               
substances with legitimate uses are  not being made illegal under                                                               
this legislation.   He  noted that  Mr. Beheim  said there  was a                                                               
prescription form of GHB.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEHEIM pointed out that GHB  is the "same, exact chemical" in                                                               
a prescription form, which is a  sodium salt, but when there is a                                                               
legitimate prescription  it is a federal  schedule III substance.                                                               
He  said the  same chemical  in the  same form  can be  illicitly                                                               
abused, so  both forms are  controlled but they are  in different                                                               
schedules.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI  noted that oxycodone  is covered as a  schedule I,                                                               
but somehow  the legitimate  use is protected.   "This  would put                                                               
GHB in the same schedule," he said.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:24:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA pondered  whether  there is  a  need to  add                                                               
language  that  says  "except  for  that  form  of  GHB  that  is                                                               
permitted by prescription use."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE  said she  does  not  know  how that  is  handled,                                                               
because  there are  things  in  the schedule  where  there is  no                                                               
evidence  "that   prosecutors  are  out  there   running  rampant                                                               
prosecuting people for these legitimate uses."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG   posited  that  adding   something  to                                                               
schedule I A allows it to be prescribed.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL suggested doing research on that point.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE expressed  that  the  bill will  go  to the  House                                                               
Finance Committee,  and she said  it is likely not  the sponsor's                                                               
intent to criminalize  uses of reasonable substances.   She added                                                               
that she is  comfortable passing the bill out  with the assurance                                                               
from Mr. Pawlowski  that he will send the committee  a memo about                                                               
how legitimate uses are protected.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:27:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI agreed to do so.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  moved Conceptual  Amendment 3  in order                                                               
to narrow  the title as tightly  as possible because he  does not                                                               
want to see a marijuana bill coming back in disguise.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI  suggested a  title that  says, "including  GHB and                                                               
its federally recognized analogs."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked who the drafter is.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI said Jerry Luckhaupt.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  requested a  final version of  the bill                                                               
in the aforementioned memo to the committee from the sponsor.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:28:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE,  after determining that there  were no objections,                                                               
announced that Conceptual Amendment 3 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON moved to report  HB 379, as amended, out of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal notes.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the fiscal note is pending.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE,  after determining that there  were no objections,                                                               
announced  that  CSHB 379(JUD)  was  reported  out of  the  House                                                               
Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:29:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:29 p.m.                                                                 
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects | 
|---|