03/06/2008 01:00 PM House TRANSPORTATION
| Audio | Topic | 
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB78 | |
| HB372 | |
| HB283 | |
| Adjourn | 
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 283 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 372 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 78 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 275 | TELECONFERENCED | |
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                         March 6, 2008                                                                                          
                           1:05 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kyle Johansen, Chair                                                                                             
Representative Mark Neuman, Vice Chair                                                                                          
Representative Wes Keller                                                                                                       
Representative Mike Doogan                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Anna Fairclough                                                                                                  
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
Representative Woodie Salmon                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 78(JUD)                                                                                                  
"An Act relating to the installation of window tinting in                                                                       
automobiles."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSSB 78(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 372                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to highway design flexibility and to the                                                                       
assumption by municipalities of certain duties related to                                                                       
highways."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 283                                                                                       
"An Act designating the Alaska Highway and a portion of the                                                                     
Richardson Highway as the Purple Heart Trail."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 275                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to tires with retractable studs."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 78                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: MOTOR VEHICLE WINDOW TINTING                                                                                       
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) FRENCH                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
02/09/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/09/07       (S)       TRA, JUD                                                                                               
03/06/07       (H)       TRA AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                              
03/06/07       (S)       Moved SB 78 Out of Committee                                                                           
03/06/07       (S)       MINUTE(TRA)                                                                                            
03/07/07       (S)       TRA RPT  1DP 3NR                                                                                       
03/07/07       (S)       DP: KOOKESH                                                                                            
03/07/07       (S)       NR: WIELECHOWSKI, WILKEN, COWDERY                                                                      
03/14/07       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                               
03/14/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/14/07       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/22/07       (S)       JUD AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/22/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/22/07       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/29/07       (S)       JUD AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/29/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/29/07       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
04/20/07       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                               
04/20/07       (S)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
04/23/07       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                               
04/23/07       (S)       Moved CSSB 78(JUD) Out of Committee                                                                    
04/23/07       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
04/25/07       (S)       JUD RPT CS  1DP 2NR    SAME TITLE                                                                      
04/25/07       (S)       DP: FRENCH                                                                                             
04/25/07       (S)       NR: WIELECHOWSKI, MCGUIRE                                                                              
05/03/07       (S)       TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                     
05/03/07       (S)       VERSION: CSSB 78(JUD)                                                                                  
05/04/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/04/07       (H)       TRA, JUD                                                                                               
03/06/08       (H)       TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 372                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: HIGHWAY DESIGN FLEXIBILITY/MUNICIPALITIES                                                                          
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUCH                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
02/19/08       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/19/08       (H)       TRA, FIN                                                                                               
03/06/08       (H)       TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 283                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: PURPLE HEART TRAIL                                                                                                 
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GARDNER, LYNN                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
01/04/08       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/4/08                                                                                
01/15/08       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/15/08       (H)       TRA, FIN                                                                                               
02/08/08       (H)       SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED                                                                          
02/08/08       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/08/08       (H)       TRA, FIN                                                                                               
03/06/08       (H)       TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOLLIS FRENCH                                                                                                           
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as the sponsor of SB 78.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
RODNEY DIAL, Lieutenant, Deputy Commander                                                                                       
A Detachment                                                                                                                    
Division of Alaska State Troopers                                                                                               
Department of Public Safety                                                                                                     
Ketchikan, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 78.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MATT BLOODGOOD, Sergeant                                                                                                        
Traffic Unit                                                                                                                    
Anchorage Police Department                                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided information regarding tinted                                                                    
windows during hearing on SB 78.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ANDREW FELT, Employee                                                                                                           
Auto Trim Design                                                                                                                
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified that SB 78, as currently written,                                                              
would put his employer out of the window tinting business.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BOB BOSWOOD, Owner                                                                                                              
Auto Trim Design                                                                                                                
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified that passage of SB 78 would                                                                    
eliminate two full-time positions in his business.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BOB BUCH                                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as sponsor of HB 372.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JEFF OTTESEN, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Program Development                                                                                                 
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified the Department  of Transportation                                                             
& Public Facilities is mostly  comfortable with HB 372, but still                                                               
has several concerns.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
FRANK MCQUEARY, President                                                                                                       
Anchorage Road Coalition                                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   During hearing  on HB 372,  testified about                                                             
the benefits of Context Sensitive Solutions (CSS).                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JIM ISTURIS, Staff                                                                                                              
to Representative Berta Gardner                                                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on  behalf of Representative Berta                                                             
Gardner, co-prime sponsor of SSHB 283.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
RON SIEBELS                                                                                                                     
Military Order Of The Purple Heart                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SSHB 283.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KYLE JOHANSEN  called  the  House Transportation  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order at  1:05:46  PM.    Representatives                                                             
Johansen, Neuman, Keller  and Doogan were present at  the call to                                                               
order.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SB 78-MOTOR VEHICLE WINDOW TINTING                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:06:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN announced  that the first order  of business would                                                               
be  CS FOR  SENATE  BILL  NO. 78(JUD)  "An  Act  relating to  the                                                               
installation of window tinting in automobiles."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOLLIS  FRENCH, Alaska State  Legislature, sponsor  of SB
78, testified there  are three reasons why he  believes this bill                                                               
is necessary.   First is for  driver safety.  Windows  too darkly                                                               
tinted  can throw  off a  driver's depth  perception, making  the                                                               
driver  unsafe.    Second  is   pedestrian  and  bicycle  safety.                                                               
Windows tinted too darkly make  it impossible for a pedestrian or                                                               
bicyclist to  make eye contact  with the  driver and can  lead to                                                               
accidents.   Third, and  perhaps most  important, is  for officer                                                               
safety.   Windows too  darkly tinted do  not allow  public safety                                                               
officers to see inside the car  when approaching it for a traffic                                                               
stop, and what is  inside that car can mean life  or death to the                                                               
officers.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  pointed out that  it is currently  against Alaska                                                               
law for  a driver to operate  a vehicle on the  road with windows                                                               
that  are too  darkly tinted.   However,  it is  not illegal  for                                                               
someone to install  that tint that is too dark.   He presumed the                                                               
committee will  hear from individuals  who do this for  a living.                                                               
He said  it is his  belief that  their complaint is,  in essence,                                                               
with the  state law.  That  is, these individuals would  like the                                                               
law  to be  repealed  and  to have  much  looser regulations  and                                                               
statutes with respect to the amount of  tint on a window.  In any                                                               
event, whatever  level the committee  eventually chooses  for the                                                               
level of tint,  the installers should be required  to comply with                                                               
it,  and that  is what  this bill  asks them  to do.   It  is the                                                               
installers  who are  in the  best position  to apply  the correct                                                               
level of tint, thus protecting  the consumer and the other public                                                               
policy interests mentioned earlier.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN inquired  how this  will be  addressed for                                                               
vehicles  brought  to  Alaska  with   window  tinting  from  less                                                               
restrictive  states,  as  often   happens  with  members  of  the                                                               
military.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  responded the bill  is aimed at  those businesses                                                               
that install window tint for a living.   He said he is not taking                                                               
aim  at the  military members  coming to  Alaska.   Nevertheless,                                                               
when  someone moves  to  Alaska,  he or  she  becomes subject  to                                                               
Alaska's laws.   The idea  is not  to burden military  members or                                                               
other people  moving to Alaska.   The law with respect  to window                                                               
tinting  is a  "fix-it  ticket", he  explained,  which means  the                                                               
ticket goes away if the window  tinting is removed.  So, there is                                                               
a  mechanism in  place to  handle individual  citizens.   Senator                                                               
French  said he  thinks  businesses should  follow  the law  like                                                               
everyone  else  and  not  be   allowed  to  harm  a  consumer  by                                                               
installing tint  that is too dark  and which will then  leave the                                                               
cost of removal on the consumer.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN   asked  whether   the  bill   includes  a                                                               
transition time  for members  of the  military coming  to Alaska,                                                               
such as  not needing  to have  the tint  removed for  members who                                                               
will be in the state for a short period of time.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH  replied no,  the  bill  applies to  professional                                                               
window  tint installers.   State  law enforcement  officers could                                                               
address the reasonable application of traffic laws on citizens.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  understood the bill  would apply  to professional                                                               
tint  installers holding  a  business license.    He presumed  it                                                               
would be  up to law  enforcement agencies  to get any  members of                                                               
the public who installed the tint by themselves.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  answered someone  gets caught when  he or  she is                                                               
out on  the road, at which  time a fix-it ticket  would be issued                                                               
requiring the  tint be peeled  back to state  law specifications.                                                               
In the course of giving a  ticket and conversing with the driver,                                                               
an officer often  finds out which shop installed the  tint.  This                                                               
bill would  allow the officer  to make a  visit to that  shop and                                                               
issue a citation if the  installer does not cease installing tint                                                               
that  is  too  dark.   Failure  to  do  that  would result  in  a                                                               
citation, not jail.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN inquired  whether the bill would  extend to stores                                                               
that sell [do-it-yourself] tinting kits.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH responded  he did think about going  wider, but he                                                               
thought this  is the  most efficient application  of the  law and                                                               
the most efficient  use of officers' time.  There  are shops that                                                               
do a large  volume of business installing tint for  a living, and                                                               
it seemed that asking those  individuals to comply with state law                                                               
like everybody  else was the  most logical place.   Possession of                                                               
window tint is  not likely to become a crime  under state law, he                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN surmised the impetus  behind the bill is that this                                                               
is not being  enforced or it is a challenge  for law officials to                                                               
enforce it on individual automobiles.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH  replied  that   1,200  tickets  were  issued  in                                                               
Anchorage in 2006.   Having the ability to go  to the individuals                                                               
installing the majority  of those too-dark window  tints would be                                                               
the more efficient.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER maintained  the bill  reads like  it would                                                               
apply to anybody that installs tint, not just a business.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH answered  the bill would apply to  a person caught                                                               
in the  act in  the garage.   However, he  said, he  believes the                                                               
likelihood of  that crime  coming to the  attention of  police is                                                               
almost  vanishingly small.   What  can  be found  out by  issuing                                                               
tickets to drivers and checking  the yellow pages is who installs                                                               
tint for  a living.  This  law was requested through  a community                                                               
council  meeting  at  which  citizens  stated  they  felt  unsafe                                                               
because  cars with  illegally dark  windows  were driving  around                                                               
their neighborhood.   The citizens questioned why it  is legal to                                                               
install tint that  is darker than state law allows  and asked him                                                               
if something could be done, he reported.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN inquired  whether someone  could be  compelled to                                                               
say where his or her tinting was done.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  responded everyone has the  Fifth Amendment right                                                               
not to answer.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  stated  that  the rub  with  him  is  the                                                               
unaware  individual  who becomes  a  criminal  by committing  the                                                               
"crime of  improper installation"  of window  tinting.   He asked                                                               
what the penalty is for this.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  replied it  is meant  to be  a violation  and the                                                               
maximum penalty  is a  $300 fine.   No  one will  go to  jail for                                                               
window tinting.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  inquired  whether a  fix-it  ticket  will                                                               
generally be given rather than a fine.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH explained  the fix-it ticket is for  the driver on                                                               
the street  operating a vehicle  with windows too  darkly tinted.                                                               
Installing the tint is another  thing and the fix-it ticket would                                                               
not apply.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked how many companies are doing this.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH answered  there  are at  least  two companies  in                                                               
Fairbanks and  he thinks there  are also companies  in Anchorage.                                                               
In  further response  to  Representative  Neuman, Senator  French                                                               
said  he  would get  back  to  the  committee  on the  number  of                                                               
companies in the state that do tinting.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN   commented  that  probably  any   body  shop  in                                                               
Ketchikan would install window tint.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  guessed a  lot of detailers  also do  it, however                                                               
there are a few shops that specialize in it.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER contended that on  the scale of things that                                                               
can  be made  illegal, he  is  wondering why  this one.   Does  a                                                               
trooper carry equipment that tests the window tinting, he asked.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH responded there is  a tintometer.  He acknowledged                                                               
this is  not the most  serious bill that  will ever be  taken up,                                                               
but  pedestrians get  hit, bicycles  get run  over, and  a police                                                               
officer was shot  in the chest with an assault  rifle from behind                                                               
a window  tinted so  dark the  officer could  not see  it coming.                                                               
From time to  time something horrible happens on the  road due to                                                               
windows that are too darkly tinted.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  inquired whether  a public  safety vehicle                                                               
with tinted windows would be immune from this.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  replied he does not  know and thinks there  is an                                                               
exception in  regulation, not  statute.  He  deferred to  the law                                                               
officers.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
RODNEY   DIAL,  Lieutenant,   Deputy  Commander,   A  Detachment,                                                               
Division of  Alaska State Troopers, Department  of Public Safety,                                                               
presented  a   PowerPoint  review  of  state   and  federal  laws                                                               
regarding  window tint.    He said  under Alaska  law:   a  front                                                               
windshield  may  have  a  five-inch   strip  of  tint,  and  this                                                               
"eyebrow" has no restrictions as long  as it is not mirrored; the                                                               
front driver  and passenger  side windows  must allow  70 percent                                                               
Visible  Light Transmission  (VLT); all  other rear  windows must                                                               
allow  40 percent  VLT, with  exemptions  for buses,  limousines,                                                               
multi-purpose vehicles,  and medical  needs.   He said  he thinks                                                               
this  provision  is  what would  exempt  the  special-use  police                                                               
vehicles.   He noted  that in his  18 years as  a trooper  he has                                                               
never  seen  a law  enforcement  car  that has  had  after-market                                                               
window tinting applied to it.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  DIAL explained  that federal  law primarily  sets the                                                               
standard for  vehicle manufacturers.   States are allowed  to set                                                               
their own  standards, and most  state standards are  pretty close                                                               
to the federal standards.  Federal  law specifies a minimum of 70                                                               
percent VLT for  the windshield and the  driver's and passenger's                                                               
side windows,  but it does  not specify any  tinting requirements                                                               
for any other windows.   Although laws change constantly and vary                                                               
among counties and cities, at  least 13 other states have similar                                                               
or  more restrictive  law than  Alaska, about  90 percent  of the                                                               
Canadian  provinces  have  a similar  or  more  restrictive  law.                                                               
About  five  states allow  50  percent  tint  on the  front  side                                                               
windows, and  about 31 states range  from about 20 percent  to 40                                                               
percent VLT  for the [front]  side windows.  Generally,  he said,                                                               
the hotter the climate, the greater the window tint allowed.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DIAL noted  that driving with tinted  windows at night                                                               
is essentially the  same as driving with sunglasses  on.  General                                                               
purpose  sunglasses range  from about  15 percent  to 40  percent                                                               
VLT.   There are some  would like  Alaska's tinted window  law to                                                               
allow tints  that only allow 30  percent VLT, he related.   Under                                                               
Alaska law tinting material for  cars must be either green, grey,                                                               
bronze, or smoke, and cannot be reflective or mirrored.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked why mirrored is not allowed.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DIAL answered  he does not know, but he  guesses it is                                                               
because of the  distraction that could be posed  to other drivers                                                               
on a sunny day.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  DIAL addressed  the  question of,  Do tinted  windows                                                               
really  cause problems?    He  recounted the  story  of a  police                                                               
officer  shot  by a  murder  suspect  inside  a car  with  tinted                                                               
windows who  the officer was  unable to see.   Allowing increased                                                               
tint in Alaska would prevent  officers from having the ability to                                                               
defend  themselves   initially  from   someone  inside   the  car                                                               
presenting  a danger.   He  related an  example in  Chicago where                                                               
police officers  unable to  see clearly  through a  tinted window                                                               
mistakenly shot a passenger they thought  had a gun, but it was a                                                               
cell phone.   Even moderate tint makes it  extremely difficult to                                                               
see into cars in low light conditions, he explained.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:28:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  DIAL said  there are  numerous examples  of criminals                                                               
who  were not  identified  because witnesses  could  not see  the                                                               
driver  through tinted  windows.   Additionally, collisions  with                                                               
motor  vehicles   and  pedestrians  have  been   blamed  on  poor                                                               
visibility due  to tinted  windows.  He  cited other  examples of                                                               
problems:    tinted  windows can  hamper  police  in  determining                                                               
whether a vehicle's occupants are  wearing seat belts, have their                                                               
children properly protected in car  seats, or are drinking out of                                                               
an open container;  heavy tints may also  prevent other motorists                                                               
from  viewing the  road ahead  by looking  through the  cabins of                                                               
cars in front of them,  something many drivers do especially when                                                               
roads are  congested; and  tinted windows  can impair  a driver's                                                               
vision,  particularly  at  night,  making  it  difficult  to  see                                                               
pedestrians and bicyclists.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DIAL used  a photo comparison of a  Nissan Maxima with                                                               
three  different percentages  of window  tint  to show  how on  a                                                               
sunny day the interior of a  car is obscured even with legal tint                                                               
of 70  percent VLT.  Regarding  the car depicted with  30 percent                                                               
VLT, he noted it is extremely  difficult to see dark objects such                                                               
as  guns  or to  see  what  the driver  is  doing.   He  directed                                                               
attention to the  car with a 5 percent VLT,  which is a limousine                                                               
tint, and into which it was  impossible to see anything even on a                                                               
sunny  day.   He  presented two  real life  photos  of cars  with                                                               
tinted windows in Ketchikan and an industry photo of tinting.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:32:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  DIAL  stated there  are  reasons  not to  change  the                                                               
current  law in  Alaska:   the state's  current standards  assure                                                               
that Alaskan  vehicles are in  compliance with the  tinted window                                                               
laws in  most states and  Canadian provinces; the law  allows for                                                               
increased visibility for the  driver, especially important during                                                               
times when there is not a  lot of sun; the law provides increased                                                               
safety  for pedestrians;  and the  law provides  increased safety                                                               
for law enforcement officers.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DIAL testified that [the  Department of Public Safety]                                                               
supports SB  78 because:   it protects the public  from unethical                                                               
installers   who  would   tint   a  vehicle   knowing  that   the                                                               
installation is illegal;  it will reduce the  number of citations                                                               
issued  to motorists;  and it  will increase  safety on  Alaska's                                                               
highways.   He  informed the  committee that  most new  cars come                                                               
from the  factory with close to  the legal amount of  tint on the                                                               
windows  already.    The  bill  would  give  the  consumer  legal                                                               
recourse for  being sold illegal  tinting and the  consumer could                                                               
request the state troopers to  issue a citation to the installer.                                                               
Thus, SB 78 is a positive thing overall for the public.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  DIAL noted  that many  window  tint citations  result                                                               
from  making a  contact or  traffic stop  for another  reason, as                                                               
too-dark window tinting  itself is a low priority  in most cases.                                                               
When traffic  stops are  made on individuals  who are  known "bad                                                               
guys",  a  ticket will  be  written  for window  tinting  because                                                               
troopers  do not  want these  people to  have tinted  windows the                                                               
next time they are stopped.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:36:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN inquired whether  window tinting is used as                                                               
a primary offense for stopping a vehicle.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DIAL responded  it can be a primary offense.   A heavy                                                               
tint  is  obvious  and  easily   identified.    However,  in  his                                                               
experience with  the officers he  supervises, it does  not happen                                                               
very often because  no officer wants to make a  bad stop when the                                                               
tinting  is marginal  and have  egg  on his  or her  face if  the                                                               
tinting  passes muster.   He  said it  tends to  happen when  the                                                               
vehicle is  stopped for  some other reason  such as  suspicion of                                                               
committing a crime or some other traffic offense.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked whether  rear window screens would be                                                               
included on trucks.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DIAL replied no.   Trucks are considered multi-purpose                                                               
vehicles and,  technically, a pickup  truck could  have limousine                                                               
tint on the  back piece of glass.  He  explained that tint meters                                                               
only work on  windows that can be rolled down.   Tint material on                                                               
windshields is  pretty much illegal  anywhere in the  country, he                                                               
said.  Therefore, troopers really  only focus on the driver's and                                                               
passenger's side windows.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN surmised  it is  only windshields  and the                                                               
front door windows that are being talked about.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DIAL answered  yes.  In response  to further questions                                                               
from Representative  Neuman, Lieutenant  Dial stated  a limousine                                                               
is a  special-use vehicle  that is  exempt from  the requirements                                                               
for the majority of the windows.   He confirmed this would affect                                                               
primarily  passenger  cars.     However,  he  noted,  special-use                                                               
vehicles like  limousines, as well  as pickup trucks,  still have                                                               
to have  the windshield  at the  federally mandated  standard and                                                               
also the front driver and passenger side windows.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:39:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MATT   BLOODGOOD,  Sergeant,   Traffic  Unit,   Anchorage  Police                                                               
Department,  related that  during  his years  of  patrol work  he                                                               
would  run the  tintometer out  of curiosity  on the  vehicles he                                                               
drove.   Generally,  he found  the  driver's side  windows to  be                                                               
around 71-72 percent window tint from  the factory.  So, he said,                                                               
anything  that gets  added to  the driver's  side windows  pretty                                                               
much makes it illegal almost immediately.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SERGEANT BLOODGOOD  stated it is  difficult at night to  see into                                                               
vehicles  that have  tinted windows.    Oftentimes when  officers                                                               
make a  traffic stop, an  attempt is made  to put light  into the                                                               
vehicle  to  determine what  the  occupants  are doing,  such  as                                                               
hiding  drugs or  having a  weapon.   However,  the light  cannot                                                               
penetrate window tint  which creates flashback and  makes it very                                                               
difficult to see into  the vehicle.  He said that  in a number of                                                               
the hit-and-run cases he has  handled, criminal investigation was                                                               
hampered  because the  victims were  unable to  make any  sort of                                                               
identification on the driver due  to window tinting and could not                                                               
even  tell if  the driver  was male  or female.   In  January and                                                               
February of  this year,  the 10 officers  working in  his traffic                                                               
unit issued 119 citations for window tint.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SERGEANT  BLOODGOOD  addressed  the earlier  reference  regarding                                                               
police   undercover  vehicles.      For   the  Anchorage   Police                                                               
Department,  he  said, there  are  some  exceptions written  into                                                               
municipal ordinance  to allow police  vehicles to vary  from some                                                               
of the  traffic ordinances based  on the needs of  the department                                                               
and the mission of public safety.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ANDREW FELT, Employee, Auto Trim  Design, said SB 78, as written,                                                               
does  not address  the problem.   If  businesses were  subject to                                                               
fines as written  in this bill, Auto Trim Design  would have been                                                               
put out of the  business of doing window tint.   "The law is very                                                               
arcane as  the way  it was  adopted," he said.   For  instance, a                                                               
Subaru Forester is  considered a sport utility  vehicle (SUV) and                                                               
it is permissible to darken the  back windows.  However, a Subaru                                                               
Outback  station  wagon,  which  does   not  appear  to  be  much                                                               
different, falls under the category  of a passenger car and would                                                               
not be allowed to have the same level of window tint.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. FELT  said that with  the large number of  transient military                                                               
members a lot of vehicles come  in from the many states that have                                                               
much more  lenient laws for window  tint.  Unless there  is a 100                                                               
percent crackdown on all this  window tint coming in from out-of-                                                               
state,  there will  always be  vehicles on  the road  with tinted                                                               
windows.   Other people will  see this  and want the  product for                                                               
its benefits, but  there will be no  place they can go  to get it                                                               
or to  be educated as to  what the law is  regarding window film.                                                               
There are many  places online where pre-cut window  tint kits can                                                               
be  purchased.   These  mail order  kits are  fairly  easy for  a                                                               
backyard installer  to put on and  could not be regulated.   This                                                               
bill  would only  serve  to put  the people  in  the business  of                                                               
window tint  out of it, Mr.  Felt contended, and would  leave the                                                               
public without  any place to  turn for something even  within the                                                               
law.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:46:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FELT,  in  response  to   Representative  Neuman,  said  his                                                               
understanding is  that the regulation  would apply to  any window                                                               
in any  passenger vehicle; thus,  it would also include  the back                                                               
window of a sedan.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  inquired why the  bill would put  Mr. Felt                                                               
out of business.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. FELT  responded that  current law does  not say  his business                                                               
cannot do this; it says that  the owner of the vehicle is subject                                                               
to the law once  that vehicle hits the road with  the tint.  This                                                               
would put  his company  out of the  window tint  business because                                                               
there would be no need to employ  a person to do the window tint.                                                               
He said  he has done  window tint for  over twenty years  in five                                                               
different  states, and  Alaska is  by far  the most  restrictive.                                                               
Every  day customers  with  brand  new SUV's  come  to Auto  Trim                                                               
Design asking that  the front windows be darkened as  much as are                                                               
the back windows from the factory.   He said his shop tells these                                                               
customers it  will not do  that, but that  it will apply  a light                                                               
tint  which,  he  acknowledged,  does fall  outside  of  Alaska's                                                               
regulations.   However, he contended,  that tint is  light enough                                                               
to easily see into that vehicle.   The law does not define darker                                                               
tint  as any  more illegal  than a  very light  tint, so  in many                                                               
people's minds the  question is, Why bother paying  someone to do                                                               
it light when it can be done very dark somewhere else?                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked why passing  a law that restricts Mr.                                                               
Felt's business  from installing window tinting  which is already                                                               
illegal on the road will put him out of business.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:50:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FELT replied  because his employer would choose not  to be in                                                               
violation of a law that  specifically targets the businesses that                                                               
are doing window tinting.  He  said he can tint a vehicle legally                                                               
if it is an SUV, but that  percentage of his business is not very                                                               
large.    Most  people  want  their entire  vehicle  done.    His                                                               
business would not be able to do  the back windows of a Camry for                                                               
the soccer mom who  wants to keep her kids in  the back seat cool                                                               
and safe from  ultra-violate rays.  He said  his business informs                                                               
its customers that this is  technically out of specification with                                                               
Alaska state regulations and that  they could be ticketed for it.                                                               
Currently,  Auto  Trim  Design  is   not  violating  the  law  by                                                               
installing the window tint; the  purchaser of that product is and                                                               
most customers choose  to accept that, given the  benefits of the                                                               
product.   Only  seven  other states  have laws  close  to or  as                                                               
restrictive as Alaska's, he related.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  understood Mr. Felt  to be saying  that if                                                               
his  business  only installs  window  tinting  that is  legal  in                                                               
Alaska he would  not have enough customers to  make it worthwhile                                                               
to continue the business.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. FELT  answered yes, this would  be the case if  film can only                                                               
be applied to those vehicles  that come under the legal allowable                                                               
limit which  includes pickup trucks,  SUVs, mini-vans,  and full-                                                               
size vans.   Federal regulations go back many  years before there                                                               
were such  things as  Ford Explorers and  Dodge Magnums  which do                                                               
not fall under the classification of a passenger vehicle.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:54:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB BOSWOOD, Owner, Auto Trim  Design, stated he has been tinting                                                               
windows  in  Alaska longer  than  [Lieutenant]  Dial has  been  a                                                               
trooper.   Window film makes  a vehicle  look nice, cuts  down on                                                               
"UV",  and reduces  glare.    At certain  times  of  the year  in                                                               
Fairbanks the  sun is on the  horizon for quite some  time and it                                                               
nice  to have  the glare  reduction.   He  agreed with  [Sergeant                                                               
Bloodgood's]  statement  that  some factory  tinted  windows  are                                                               
already at the limit.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOSWOOD said a bill  should accomplish something and the only                                                               
accomplishment this bill will have  is to restrict.  His business                                                               
will not tint  windows too dark for police to  see in, he stated.                                                               
The  medium 35  percent  tint that  is done  by  his business  is                                                               
outside the  regulations.   If the  legislature makes  it illegal                                                               
for his  business to do this,  his business will comply  with the                                                               
law  which will  eliminate  two full-time  positions  as well  as                                                               
several other services that those employees do seasonally.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOSWOOD  warned that if  his business is  not here to  do the                                                               
medium tint  on those  windows, those very  same windows  will be                                                               
tinted by someone's  buddy on the military base or  in a backyard                                                               
or garage  for cash only,  and there will be  no proof as  to who                                                               
tinted  those windows.   Additionally,  those windows  will be  5                                                               
percent tint  and darker, as opposed  to the 35 percent  that his                                                               
business currently does  on front doors.  He  said he understands                                                               
the  trooper's side  of it,  but that  most of  today's SUVs  and                                                               
pickup trucks have  dark tint that cannot be seen  through and it                                                               
is legal under federal standards.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:57:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  drew attention  to a letter  of support  from the                                                               
Chief  of Police  of the  Fairbanks Police  Department.   He read                                                               
aloud the last paragraph from the letter:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Regardless  of   whether  or   not  a   business  owner                                                                    
     personally  agrees with  the current  tint requirements                                                                    
     they all  know what the  current law  is.  For  them to                                                                    
     consciously  disregard that  law and  install a  window                                                                    
     tint which they  know to be illegal and  passing on the                                                                    
     subsequent  cost  for  both   the  violation  and  tint                                                                    
     removal  to  their   often  ignorant  and  unsuspecting                                                                    
     customers  is  wrong  and  should  not  be  allowed  to                                                                    
     continue.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH said he thinks  the testimony today points out why                                                               
it is a good idea to put some  onus on the tint installers - they                                                               
know the regulations better than anyone  else.  So, it seems like                                                               
a perfectly targeted  bill to put installers in  control of their                                                               
own fate  and let them  install legal tint  on the cars  that can                                                               
accept it and not install it where it is not allowed.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:58:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  stated he  is trying  to find  some middle                                                               
ground.   He inquired  whether Senator French  has talked  to the                                                               
various  parties to  try to  find a  common-ground solution.   He                                                               
further inquired  whether allowing another 5  percent tint, going                                                               
from a 30 percent tint to 35 percent, would be acceptable.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH responded  he would  not  be in  favor of  making                                                               
Alaska's laws more  lax.  There are a dozen  or more other states                                                               
with rules similar  to Alaska and they get along  just fine.  The                                                               
solution  to the  long  sunny  days in  Fairbanks  is  a pair  of                                                               
sunglasses  that can  be taken  off when  the sun  goes down,  or                                                               
shades that  can be pulled down  to protect kids when  the sun is                                                               
shining.   He  said the  idea  of changing  the law  to make  the                                                               
illegal installation  of tint acceptable  strikes him as  being a                                                               
step backwards.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  asked which  windows would be  affected by                                                               
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  replied the  bill would apply  to all  windows on                                                               
the car,  as provided on  page 1, lines 7-9.   He said  a delayed                                                               
effective date could  be put on the bill to  let companies use up                                                               
the stock they have on  hand and continue putting illegal product                                                               
on  the   street  and  continue  the   citation  of  unsuspecting                                                               
consumers.   A delayed effective  date would give  the businesses                                                               
some time to adjust.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN understood  that Lieutenant  Dial said  it                                                               
was just the front window and side windows.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH  understood that  the  rules  apply all  the  way                                                               
around the car.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  inquired whether  this means  there cannot                                                               
be more than 30 percent tint on any window.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH  said  that particular  statute  belongs  to  the                                                               
windshield and  the two side  windows.   Also the tint  cannot go                                                               
beyond a certain level on the  back passenger windows or the rear                                                               
window.   There  are two  separate rules  for the  front and  the                                                               
back.   In further  response, Senator French  said there  are two                                                               
sets of  rules - one  for passenger  cars and one  for everything                                                               
else, such as SUVs, limousines, and so forth.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH, in  response to  Chair  Johansen, confirmed  the                                                               
bill  next goes  to the  House Judiciary  Standing Committee  and                                                               
there are no further committee referrals.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:03:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  asked whether  the different  levels of  tint are                                                               
statutory or regulatory.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH answered regulatory.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  inquired  whether  out-of-state  vehicles                                                               
coming into  Alaska from  states where more  tint is  legal would                                                               
receive a citation.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  responded technically  yes.   He deferred  to law                                                               
enforcement to say what the practice is on the street.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN understood  that  the  committee does  not                                                               
have the window  tinting law in front of it.   What the committee                                                               
has  is  a  proposed  law  that  would  prevent  installers  from                                                               
exceeding the current standards in Alaska.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH replied correct.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN stated  the people  arguing against  SB 78                                                               
are essentially saying  that they want to be  exempt from helping                                                               
people break Alaska law because they  want to be able to put tint                                                               
on cars that  does not meet these standards and  be held harmless                                                               
for this action, which is the current status of the law.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH answered  that  is the  argument  he heard  being                                                               
made.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN closed public testimony.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:05:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  supported the  intent of  the legislation,                                                               
but said he is trying to find some middle ground.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN stated  he is  perfectly fine  with moving                                                               
this bill.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  said he understands  the questions by  the window                                                               
tinters, but  that is not  what is  being addressed, as  was made                                                               
clear by Representative  Doogan.  He stated the  questions can be                                                               
worked  out  through the  regulatory  process  and suggested  the                                                               
installers  contact   the  appropriate  state   agency  regarding                                                               
changing the regulations for the percentage of tinting.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  Neuman  moved  to  report  CSSB  78(JUD)  out  of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal  notes.    There  being no  objection,  CSSB  78(JUD)  was                                                               
reported from the House Transportation Standing Committee.                                                                      
The committee took an at-ease from 2:08 p.m. to 2:11 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 372-HIGHWAY DESIGN FLEXIBILITY/MUNICIPALITIES                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:11:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  announced that the  next order of  business would                                                               
be  HOUSE  BILL  NO.  372  "An Act  relating  to  highway  design                                                               
flexibility and  to the assumption  by municipalities  of certain                                                               
duties related to highways."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BOB BUCH, Alaska  State Legislature, noted that HB
372 is  the result  of many  conversations with  his constituents                                                               
about the  roads in District  27, which includes the  Ted Stevens                                                               
Anchorage  International Airport.    The bill  would require  the                                                               
Department  of Transportation  &  Public  Facilities (DOT&PF)  to                                                               
implement Context  Sensitive Solutions  (CSS) when  designing and                                                               
reconfiguring roads.   He explained that CSS is  the process that                                                               
expands  community   involvement  and  brings  in   experts  with                                                               
different  perspectives   when  a  road  is   being  designed  or                                                               
redesigned.   This  process is  being used  to improve  roads all                                                               
over the  U.S. with great  success, he  said, and because  of its                                                               
success,  the   Federal  Highway  Administration   (FHWA)  listed                                                               
adoption of CSS in all 50 states  by 2007 as one of its strategic                                                               
goals.   Context Sensitive Solutions  would be a great  system to                                                               
improve Alaska's  roads.  He  said there is a  proposed committee                                                               
substitute  (CS)  that is  the  result  of a  three-hour  meeting                                                               
yesterday between  his staff, DOT&PF,  and Frank McQueary  of the                                                               
Anchorage Road Coalition.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  moved that  the  committee  adopt as  its                                                               
working document the proposed CS  of HB 372, labeled 25-LSO525\K,                                                               
Kane, 3/6/08  (Version K).   There being no objection,  Version K                                                               
was adopted as the working document.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JEFF   OTTESEN,  Director,   Division  of   Program  Development,                                                               
Department  of  Transportation   &  Public  Facilities  (DOT&PF),                                                               
stated that  yesterday's three-hour meeting  included discussions                                                               
of the  bill, examples of good  and bad projects, and  the things                                                               
that could  have been done  better in the  past.  He  said DOT&PF                                                               
has a  CSS policy  that was  adopted and is  in use,  and several                                                               
projects  that went  through  the CSS  process  have been  built,                                                               
including the  new Elmore Road and  the C Street extension.   The                                                               
proposed  Bragaw  Interchange  at  the Glenn  Highway  also  went                                                               
through  the CSS  process.   Context  Sensitive Solutions  relies                                                               
upon there  being flexibility in design  standards, explained Mr.                                                               
Ottesen.   While not  every project has  taken advantage  of that                                                               
flexibility, the  department did adopt flexible  design standards                                                               
10 years ago.  Thus, CSS is  not a new concept to the department,                                                               
nor is flexible design standards.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:16:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  said  the previous  bill  troubled  the  department                                                               
because it  mixed design standards  with design process  and used                                                               
the two  ideas interchangeably  as if they  were the  same thing.                                                               
They are quite different in a  legal sense, he stressed.  He said                                                               
the department  proposed that  the section  on standards  be left                                                               
alone and  that the focus  be on design  process.  So,  Section 1                                                               
now adds  a new subsection to  the statute about following  a CSS                                                               
process and Section  2 speaks to the types  of organizations that                                                               
would be  considered to  be invited to  the table  depending upon                                                               
the particulars  of a  project.   Not every  project is  going to                                                               
follow  CSS, only  those  projects that  involve  design, or  new                                                               
construction, or  some new change  to the  roadway.  He  said the                                                               
department is now much more comfortable  with the bill, but it is                                                               
not yet  100 percent there.   The bill is much  better because it                                                               
got rid of the legal conundrum,  but there are still a few tweaks                                                               
the department  would like  to work  on with  the sponsor.   Time                                                               
restraints precluded a full review, he explained.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:18:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN requested  Mr. Ottesen  to go  through the                                                               
bill and tell the committee which  areas it supports and which it                                                               
does not and why.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  responded the  department's lack  of support  is not                                                               
having  had the  chance to  fully vet  the bill  with some  other                                                               
important people.   The  Department of  Law (DOL),  which defends                                                               
DOT&PF in tort and  other claims, has not seen the  CS.  He noted                                                               
that DOT&PF  submitted the long  list of groups in  Section 1(d).                                                               
However, the  question is  when would  these groups  be necessary                                                               
and  could it  create a  legal challenge  if every  group is  not                                                               
consulted by  the department  for every project.   Right  now the                                                               
department's  process  is in  policy,  he  explained.   When  the                                                               
process is  put into  statute, it carries  greater weight  and it                                                               
creates a  higher duty for the  department and this is  why there                                                               
needs to be vetting by the DOL.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:20:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  offered  his opinion  that  DOT&PF  could                                                               
address  a lot  of this  through  regulations.   He referenced  a                                                               
statement  made  by Mr.  Ottesen  at  another hearing  about  the                                                               
department needing to  start over whenever changes are  made to a                                                               
federally funded project  and how this adds costs.   He requested                                                               
Mr. Ottesen to address this issue within the context of HB 372.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN replied  an answer is hard because  every project has                                                               
a specific set of  facts.  It could be argued  that CSS will make                                                               
a project more successful because  it brings all interests to the                                                               
table and  tries to satisfy as  many points of view  as possible.                                                               
This is  not to  say that  CSS will satisfy  every point  of view                                                               
since  some  points   of  view  will  be   tugging  in  different                                                               
directions  and  the  department  must somehow  find  the  common                                                               
ground.  For example, truckers may  want wider lanes for a larger                                                               
radius around  corners, but pedestrians  may want  narrower lanes                                                               
and a smaller  radius at corners.  The department  must show that                                                               
it went  through the process as  fairly as possible.   He said he                                                               
thinks CSS  is a good process,  but that the department  does not                                                               
want it to be used as a  way to stall projects because it becomes                                                               
something that can be litigated.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:23:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  noted that DOT&PF already  does everything                                                               
it can  to accommodate CSS in  the best way possible  through its                                                               
extensive public  process.  Yet,  the number of  lawsuits against                                                               
projects  has   increased  and  the  delays   have  substantially                                                               
increased the costs of construction.   He inquired whether HB 372                                                               
would bring about more lawsuits against the department.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN answered  DOT&PF has not yet had a  chance to ask the                                                               
Department of  Law for its opinion  as to whether there  is fuzzy                                                               
language in the  bill.  It is fuzzy language  that often leads to                                                               
debates in front  of a judge, he  noted.  While DOT&PF  has a CSS                                                               
policy and is implementing it,  the department is not 100 percent                                                               
there  because  it  takes  time  and  training  for  CSS  to  get                                                               
inoculated into the  brain of every design engineer  so that each                                                               
engineer knows he  or she has the latitude to  use CSS.  Trainers                                                               
have been  brought in  twice and the  department is  training CSS                                                               
trainers  within its  ranks.    One irony,  he  related, is  that                                                               
several  of  the  examples  raised in  the  discussion  with  Mr.                                                               
McQueary would  have been made better  by CSS, but they  were not                                                               
DOT&PF projects and HB 372 would only apply to DOT&PF projects.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:26:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  inquired whether  use of the  word "shall"                                                               
[page 2, line  9] locks DOT&PF into having to  consult all of the                                                               
agencies that are listed on [page 2, lines 12-26].                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  replied the  department  had  a long  philosophical                                                               
conversation with  Mr. McQueary about whether  this was necessary                                                               
since  DOT&PF has  already  adopted this  policy  and is  rapidly                                                               
trying to implement it.  The  feeling that was heard, he related,                                                               
is that it is important to cement  this into law so that a change                                                               
in  DOT&PF leadership  over time  could  not just  wash it  away.                                                               
However, in his experience these  things become standard practice                                                               
and do  not tend  to go away  - more processes  tend to  be added                                                               
over time rather than taken away.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   DOOGAN  asked   whether   DOT&PF  is   currently                                                               
prevented from doing anything that is in HB 372.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  answered no.   The  vast majority  of this  is being                                                               
done now  and that  is why  the department is  at the  80 percent                                                               
comfort level.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:29:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  inquired  whether  Arctic  Boulevard  [in                                                               
Anchorage] is an example that was not a DOT&PF project.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded he does not  know the details of the Arctic                                                               
Boulevard project, but he knows it was controversial.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  remarked that if  there is anything  in HB
372  that would  prevent  a recurrence  of  the Arctic  Boulevard                                                               
controversy,  then  he  will  support  this bill.    He  said  he                                                               
recognizes that  CSS is  a good  thing, but he  does not  want to                                                               
open up any  more avenues for delay than what  there already are.                                                               
Would HB 372 open up more avenues, he asked.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN replied  he cannot say absolutely  without talking to                                                               
the Department  of Law.  He  pointed out the language  on page 2,                                                               
lines  10-11, which  states, "When  appropriate for  a particular                                                               
project,  the  commissioner shall  consult  with...."   Thus,  he                                                               
explained, there is  a judgment about what is  "appropriate" on a                                                               
particular project  and if  the department chooses  not to  go to                                                               
all 11  groups on every project,  it could be challenged  on that                                                               
simple fact alone.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:30:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN surmised  Mr.  Ottesen's  concern is  that                                                               
someone   will  contest   the   department's  interpretation   of                                                               
"appropriate".                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN  answered, "Precisely."   That is a judgment  that is                                                               
being   made   and  judgments   are   often   open  to   multiple                                                               
interpretations.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:31:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER inquired whether  Mr. Ottesen thinks delays                                                               
could be reduced if the spirit  of HB 372 is followed through the                                                               
early and effective involvement of the groups.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN  responded  that is  precisely  the  successes  that                                                               
people point  to when they talk  about CSS.  Bringing  all of the                                                               
various  interest groups  to the  table at  the same  time allows                                                               
everyone to hear  the concerns of the others in  order to come up                                                               
with alternatives that are suitable to all.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER suggested that  some intent language in the                                                               
bill might be appropriate.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN stated  he did not have an opportunity  to speak with                                                               
Representative  Buch about  the  department's remaining  concerns                                                               
prior to this committee meeting because of the floor session.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:34:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  asked how  long  Mr.  Ottesen thought  it                                                               
would take to get the department's concerns checked out.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN replied 24 hours.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  inquired whether  the department currently  has a                                                               
specific list of groups that it contacts for proposed projects.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN answered the project  manager or the project engineer                                                               
typically learns what  the issues are from  scoping meetings that                                                               
are  held  in various  communities.    He  cited the  new  Bragaw                                                               
Interchange across the  Glenn Highway in Anchorage  as an example                                                               
of this.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN  surmised  Mr.  Ottesen's  concern  is  that  the                                                               
flexibility the  department now  has for  inviting groups  to the                                                               
table will be eliminated if the eleven groups are codified.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN responded he would like  to make sure it is the right                                                               
11  groups,  maybe  it  should  be 13.    For  instance,  transit                                                               
organizations were only added to the  list yesterday.  He said he                                                               
would like  to find a way  to say that the  department has talked                                                               
to these groups  without making it a "gotcha" if  the right group                                                               
is accidently not invited.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN stated that is his  point.  Having a codified list                                                               
could  result  in  needing  to   come  back  to  the  legislature                                                               
periodically  to add  to  the list  of groups.    The concept  of                                                               
having the various entities at  the table gives them ownership of                                                               
the process  and ultimately reduces  the problems  of litigation.                                                               
He  presumed  Mr. Ottesen  is  looking  for  a  way to  make  the                                                               
rigidity in the bill more flexible.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  OTTESEN replied  yes, flexible  in  both directions  because                                                               
maybe the department will invite  groups that were not thought of                                                               
during the previous three-hour work session.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:38:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  agreed  it  is  a  lot  better  to  fight                                                               
skirmishes when  they are small and  at the front of  the project                                                               
rather  than to  fight  them in  court when  trying  to pour  the                                                               
concrete.   He  said  he shares  Chair  Johansen's concern  about                                                               
having to periodically  add groups to the list.   As opposed to a                                                               
list,  he  asked,  was  there any  consideration  given  to  just                                                               
writing more general language that  would allow DOT&PF to include                                                               
the appropriate groups or individuals in the process.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. OTTESEN answered there was a  list in the previous version of                                                               
HB 372 and the  department added 3 or 4 categories  to it.  There                                                               
was not  enough time to  think about that,  he said, and  this is                                                               
the one section  that troubles him.  It is  an evolving world and                                                               
the groups  that can be thought  of today will not  be the groups                                                               
that are thought of five or fifteen years from now.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:40:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  announced he will hold  HB 372 in order  to allow                                                               
the sponsor and DOT&PF to fix the last 20 percent of the bill.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:40:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FRANK MCQUEARY,  President, Anchorage  Road Coalition,  noted the                                                               
Anchorage  Road  Coalition is  a  non-profit  group comprised  of                                                               
members  of the  Anchorage community.   He  said the  coalition's                                                               
main function is education and  advocating for the implementation                                                               
of CSS.   He informed  the committee that  Anchorage Metropolitan                                                               
Area Transportation Solutions (AMATS)  adopted the CSS policy and                                                               
is now  going through the public  process to make it  a statutory                                                               
municipal policy.   The concept of  CSS is to involve  all of the                                                               
stakeholders in a  community early and frequently  in the process                                                               
in order to  eliminate many problems.  It was  started in 2000 at                                                               
an  American  Association  of State  Highway  and  Transportation                                                               
Officials (AASHTO)  conference.  A  pilot project was  started in                                                               
five  states  to  try  to   understand  how  something  could  be                                                               
implemented   that  would   improve  processes,   create  greater                                                               
satisfaction with  projects, eliminate controversy  and problems,                                                               
and  speed  up the  process.    The conference  title,  "Thinking                                                               
Beyond  the Pavement,"  was the  professional body's  recognition                                                               
that  transportation actions  have tremendous  impact on  lots of                                                               
things besides just automobiles and moving traffic.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:43:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MCQUEARY related that [AASHTO's]  web page describes CSS as a                                                               
collaborative,  interdisciplinary  approach   that  involves  all                                                               
stakeholders to  develop a transportation facility  that fits its                                                               
physical  setting,  preserves  scenic, aesthetic,  historic,  and                                                               
environmental  resources while  maintaining safety  and mobility.                                                               
Alaska is unusual  in that it was not  the engineering profession                                                               
itself that  introduced this  initiative, although  the committee                                                               
is  being   told  that  DOT&PF   practices  it.     Mr.  McQueary                                                               
acknowledged that  DOT&PF does  practice some parts  of CSS.   He                                                               
said  the coalition  is pushing  for statutory  implementation of                                                               
CSS because,  as seen  from other  parts of  the country,  CSS is                                                               
most  successful  when  implemented  by statute.    It  has  been                                                               
implemented by  statute in about half  of the states where  it is                                                               
in practice.   He stated  good design  takes time and  bad design                                                               
takes  longer  because  if  it   is  bad  design  there  will  be                                                               
controversy and legal delays.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:46:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MCQUEARY  stated that  a  number  of state,  municipal,  and                                                               
private  engineers have  offered encouragement  to the  Anchorage                                                               
Road Coalition,  but they have not  wanted to be leaders  in this                                                               
because of resistance at state and  municipal levels.  He said 14                                                               
states had implemented  CSS statutorily by 2003,  and he believes                                                               
it  had  grown to  about  28  states two  years  ago.   It  is  a                                                               
strategic goal  of the Federal  Highway Administration to  have a                                                               
50-state adoption of this policy, he  related.  It is nice to say                                                               
it is already  being done, but if  it is not a  written policy it                                                               
is subject to the vagaries of  who is in office at any particular                                                               
time.  One real objective of  [CSS] is to avoid the re-work cycle                                                               
and the associated costs of doing something twice.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:48:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MCQUEARY stated  that the  statutory language  in the  Safe,                                                               
Accountable,  Flexible, Efficient  Transportation  Equity Act:  A                                                               
Legacy for  Users (SAFETEA-LU)  basically says  stakeholders will                                                               
be included  early in the process.   It is in  the best interests                                                               
of DOT&PF  to recognize who the  vested interests are -  who will                                                               
be damaged,  who is  going to  benefit, and  what the  costs are.                                                               
Improper  pre-design analysis  is the  cause of  much controversy                                                               
and  many  delays.    He  said the  language  in  SAFETEA-LU  for                                                               
inclusion of  groups states "including  but not limited to".   He                                                               
acknowledged there  are notable instances where  DOT&PF is trying                                                               
to  implement CSS.   However,  CSS is  about much  more than  the                                                               
public process,  he said.   The public  is only  one stakeholder.                                                               
There is an  economic impact, up or down, on  property values.  A                                                               
freeway has one overriding purpose  and that is maximum mobility.                                                               
In urban areas  there are conflicts because more is  trying to be                                                               
done than just  maximum mobility and this is where  CSS came from                                                               
in the  Lower 48.  The  CSS process is already  developed and not                                                               
something  new,  so  the  expertise  and  resources  are  already                                                               
available for implementing it in Alaska.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:53:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MCQUEARY   noted  that,   according  to   statistical  data,                                                               
environmental  issues were  not  the majority  cause for  project                                                               
delays.    The  top  causes  for  delay  were  lack  of  funding,                                                               
controversy,  or   a  low  priority  within   the  transportation                                                               
departments themselves.  The track  record shows that states with                                                               
CSS have more projects built quicker with less controversy.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER thanked  Mr. McQueary  for testifying  and                                                               
said he  really likes the  concept and  hopes the wording  can be                                                               
worked out.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MCQUEARY said  that, based  on the  experience of  the other                                                               
states,  implementation  of CSS  would  improve  the process  and                                                               
would  lower  or  have  no  impact on  the  legal  risks  of  the                                                               
transportation  department.   The  FHWA  has  published a  manual                                                               
entitled, "Flexibility in Highway  Design," which is specifically                                                               
intended to  educate the profession  to how much latitude  it has                                                               
in using  the "green book" as  a starting point.   He agreed with                                                               
Mr. Ottesen that  a lot of the engineers in  DOT&PF are not there                                                               
yet.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:57:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MCQUEARY  noted the multi-disciplinary team  that addresses a                                                               
lot of  the issues  going in actually  prepares the  engineers to                                                               
better   defend   the  project   downstream   in   a  much   less                                                               
controversial environment.   If there is not a  good process then                                                               
there will  not be a  good result.   Alaska needs to  extract the                                                               
most value  out of every dollar  that it can and  the CSS process                                                               
will help  do that.   He  said he  is willing  to engage  in some                                                               
tweaking  as long  as it  does not  neutralize the  value of  the                                                               
policy.   He cautioned that  sometimes the search  for perfection                                                               
is the enemy of progress.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:59:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  reiterated he  is holding HB  372 over  so DOT&PF                                                               
and  the  sponsor  can  get  together.   He  inquired  about  the                                                               
SAFETEA-LU language regarding organizations.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.   MCQUEARY  advised   the  language   should  recognize   the                                                               
possibility that there could be  other groups than those that are                                                               
listed and  it should recognize  the possibility that  there will                                                               
be projects where  some of the groups will not  have any relevant                                                               
interest  or  input.     Part  of  CSS   is  that  transportation                                                               
departments  pro-actively  reach  out   and  understand  who  the                                                               
stakeholders  are  and  then  bring  them  into  the  discussion.                                                               
Putting all  of the stakeholders  into a room provides  a totally                                                               
different  result  than  when  each   stakeholder  is  talked  to                                                               
sequentially,  as has  been done  in the  past.   The dynamic  of                                                               
successful negotiation  is to have  everyone in the same  room so                                                               
that everyone  understands all  of the  issues and  realizes that                                                               
the end product is going to be a compromise.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  encouraged Mr. McQueary, the  sponsor, and DOT&PF                                                               
to get  together.  He  invited Mr.  McQueary to be  online during                                                               
the committee's discussion of the bill next week.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:01:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BUCH  drew  attention  to page  2,  line  10,  of                                                               
Version K.  He explained  that this is discretionary language and                                                               
is inclusive  language, not  exclusive language.   So,  these are                                                               
listed recommendations of parties to  include, it is not designed                                                               
to exclude.  It  is a starting point and is  not meant to dictate                                                               
for every project.   He said as  the sponsor he is  trying to get                                                               
projects  started and  completed  in an  efficient  manner in  an                                                               
effort of saving consumer and public funds.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN asked  whether it  is DOT&PF  that decides                                                               
"When appropriate" as stated on page 2, line 10.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BUCH  responded it  is the commissioner  who shall                                                               
deem when it  is appropriate, and it does not  exclude any group.                                                               
It  is  up  to  the  commissioner  to  decide  which  groups  are                                                               
pertinent.  It is very discretionary language.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  stated the  committee will  look at  this section                                                               
next week.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[HB 372 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 283-PURPLE HEART TRAIL                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:03:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN announced  that the final order  of business would                                                               
be SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE  BILL NO. 283 "An Act designating                                                               
the Alaska  Highway and  a portion of  the Richardson  Highway as                                                               
the Purple Heart Trail."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:04:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM ISTURIS, Staff to Representative  Berta Gardner, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, testified  that SSHB 283 would  establish the Purple                                                               
Heart Trail.   The  Purple Heart  is a medal  that is  awarded to                                                               
common  soldiers  who  have  been  injured  or  have  died  while                                                               
fighting for  America.  The  Purple Heart  Trail is an  effort to                                                               
remind the public of the  soldiers who have fought and sacrificed                                                               
for  America.   The Purple  Heart Trail  started in  Virginia and                                                               
currently  crosses 43  states and  Alaska will  hopefully be  the                                                               
  th                                                                                                                            
44.    There  is a  large military  presence in  Alaska  and this                                                               
trail will  serve as a  reminder of Alaska's appreciation  of the                                                               
service and sacrifice of military members.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN stated  his intention to hold SSHB  283 until next                                                               
week.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
RON SIEBELS,  Military Order Of  The Purple Heart, stated  he has                                                               
been working hard on  this issue for over a year  and is proud to                                                               
say  there wide  support across  Alaska.   Representative Gardner                                                               
and Senator  Ellis helped get  this issue before  the legislature                                                               
and Governor  Palin and  other statewide  veterans' organizations                                                               
support the  bill, he  related.  The  two major  communities that                                                               
would be in the center of  the trail, Tok and Delta Junction, are                                                               
in  support of  the  bill.   Also  supporting  the  bill are  the                                                               
Anchorage mayor,  the Anchorage  Assembly, and the  three members                                                               
of Alaska's congressional  delegation.  He said he  would like to                                                               
show that Alaska has a heart  that matches its size when it comes                                                               
to honoring  veterans, and passage  of SSHB 283 would  do exactly                                                               
that.  Alaska  will continually be visited by  many travelers who                                                               
either know someone or are related  to someone who was wounded or                                                               
killed in battle, and the Purple  Heart Trail signs will create a                                                               
warm and positive impression on  those visitors.  The trail would                                                               
therefore provide a  twofold gain by honoring  wounded and killed                                                               
veterans  and  promoting  a  warm  and  visible  welcome  to  the                                                               
visitors whose own  lives have been affected by  the Purple Heart                                                               
recipients they know and love.   The Purple Heart Trail is a word                                                               
designation only,  no highway names  or numbers will change.   He                                                               
said  he passionately  believes in  America's Purple  Heart Trail                                                               
and Alaska's officials will walk  proudly into the future knowing                                                               
they helped  to get this  done.  This  bill for the  Purple Heart                                                               
Trail is  the right thing to  do.  On behalf  of Alaska's combat-                                                               
wounded veterans, he asked for  the committee's unanimous support                                                               
in passing SSHB 283.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:08:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN stated that due to  lack of time, SSHB 283 will be                                                               
held over and considered next week.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN, for  purposes  of the  record, asked  Mr.                                                               
Siebels  to state  why  this particular  stretch  of highway  was                                                               
picked to be the Purple Heart Trail.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIEBELS  said different roads  were talked about, but  it was                                                               
thought  that this  was  probably  the best  one  because of  its                                                               
military  history and  the  original  Alaska-Canadian Highway  in                                                               
World  War  II.    This  highway  was  chosen  for  its  military                                                               
significance, the number of travelers  coming into the state, and                                                               
because it is the only route into Alaska.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Transportation Standing  Committee meeting was adjourned  at 3:09                                                               
p.m.                                                                                                                            
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