Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120
02/13/2018 11:00 AM House FISHERIES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB272 | |
| HB149 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 272 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 149 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 272-TANGLE LAKES STATE GAME REFUGE
11:03:08 AM
CHAIR STUTES announced that the first order of business would be
HB 272 HOUSE BILL NO. 272, "An Act establishing the Tangle Lakes
State Game Refuge; and providing for an effective date."
11:04:07 AM
REPRESENTATIVE ANDY JOSEPHSON, Alaska State Legislature, as
prime sponsor of HB 272, explained the conceptual origin of the
bill. He said he would not have known there was an interest in
establishing the Tangle Lakes State Game Refuge if it had not
been for others. The genesis of the bill comes from its
supporters, who tend to hail from the Copper Center and Kenny
Lake area, as well as Fairbanks. He stated that some
Fairbanksans travel via the Richardson Highway for hunting and
recreation, to Valdez for boating, and to the Copper River for
dipnetting.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON said this bill would create a game
refuge east of Paxson and north of the Alaska Highway. The goal
of proposed HB 272 was to protect hunting, fishing, and
recreational experience for this area. The Nelchina caribou
herd frequents this area in the fall, with game management unit
(GMU) 13 being important to urban areas of Anchorage and the
Matanuska-Susitna (Mat-Su) valley. He said he anticipated that
hunting interests would support this bill. Today, Felicia
Riedel provided the committee a letter of support, and his
office has received dozens of letters of support for HB 272.
Further, he said he had received one e-mail in opposition. Any
mining claims that have already been filed in the area would be
able to proceed just as they would without the bill, he said.
11:07:10 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON stated that the proposed refuge was not
near the Alpha Claims block, which will be covered in the
presentation. Mining and oil activity could also proceed as it
does now, but prospectively the area would be for hunting,
fishing, and other recreation. He related that he met with
Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and the Alaska Department
of Fish & Game (ADF&G) officials to address whether to follow a
contour of natural features; however, the DNR surveying team
suggested the border contained in proposed HB 272 as a more
practical solution.
11:08:35 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked for the size of the proposed
refuge.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON responded that the proposed Tangle
Lakes State Game Refuge consisted of approximately 156,000 acres
of state land.
LISA DELANEY, Staff, Representative Andy Josephson, Alaska State
Legislature, began her PowerPoint presentation by stating that
this area was an easily accessible, scenic, and popular area for
Alaskans which was filled with resources [slide 2]. The area is
popular for hunting, fishing, trapping, tourism, subsistence
use, and other sports.
11:10:12 AM
MS. DELANEY turned to slides 3-4, titled "Places of Note," which
read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
There are 4 main categories:
1. State Range Areas
? Provide habitat protection for wildlife,
primarily moose & bison
? 2 statewide, 220,051 acres
2. Anadromous Waters Catalog
? Important for Alaska's economy, lifestyle &
environment
? Receive special protections to ensure they
continue to support abundant runs of fish
? Thousands of miles of rivers, lakes, streams
statewide
3. Controlled Use Areas
? Restricts certain methods/means of harvest for
some game species
? 26 statewide
4. State Refuges, Sanctuaries, & Critical Habitat
Areas
? Protect rich fish & wildlife habitats
? Possess outstanding fish & wildlife-related
recreational opportunities
? 32 statewide, 3.2 million acres
32 statewide, 3.2 million acres
MS. DELANEY referred to a map of the refuge on slide 5, titled,
"The Area in Question" and to a map on slide 6, tilted "Wait,
where?"
11:11:07 AM
CHAIR STUTES related her understanding mining claims in the area
would not be affected.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON responded yes; the [current] mining
claims would proceed as they otherwise would.
11:11:21 AM
MS. DELANEY directed attention back to slide 6, noting the
location of Sevenmile Lake and Tangle Lakes in relation to the
proposed refuge. She turned to slide 7, which read, in part, as
follows [original punctuation provided]:
? GMU 13B
? Clearwater Creek Controlled Use Area (ADF&G)
? Closed to motorized vehicles (1971)
? Many moose in this portion of the Alaska Range
? Nelchina caribou in area during summer & early fall
? Popular for walk-in hunters
? Delta National Wild & Scenic River Corridor (BLM)
?Habitat for 100+ species of migrating
birds/waterfowl & various fish species
? Tangle Lakes Archaeological District (DNR)
?Resulted from demonstrated valuable cultural
resources
?Land is managed to maintain range of recreational,
scenic, educational, archeological & unique natural
resource opportunities
MS. DELANEY said that game management unit (GMU) 13B lies within
the proposed refuge as does Clearwater Creek Controlled Use Area
(ADF&G), Delta National Wild & Scenic River Corridor (BLM), and
Tangle Lakes Archaeological District (DNR).
MS. DELANEY discussed slide 8. She directed the committee's
attention to area 18, circled in pink, and related that the
Nelchina caribou herd was located there. She pointed out that
it was the sixth largest herd in the state, with 46,500
individuals.
11:12:49 AM
MS. DELANEY turned to the next slide describing a section-by-
section analysis of HB 272. Section 1 (a) consisted of seven
pages describing the proposed refuge boundaries, provided by
DNR, and primarily following the geography [slide 10]. The bill
contains the legal description of the proposed refuge
boundaries, she said. She stated that Section 1(b) describes
the purpose of the game refuge, which is to provide permanent
protection for fish, wildlife, and habitats. The proposed game
refuge would preserve the rights for subsistence uses, hunting,
and fishing, as well as recreational, scientific, aesthetic, and
educational purposes. The purposes would be accomplished by
managing human use and activities in a manner compatible with
the previously listed purposes [slide 11].
11:13:53 AM
MS. DELANEY explained that Section 1 (c-f) of HB 272 would
provide land use restrictions on mining - except for existing
claims - and oil and gas development, unless the [DNR]
commissioner deemed the development was compatible with the
goals of the proposed refuge [slide 12].
11:14:18 AM
CHAIR STUTES asked whether this bill would allow expansion of
existing mining claims. She said it says, "except for existing
claims ..." She asked for clarification on how the bill would
affect someone wishing to expand a mining claim. She asked
whether they were precluded from doing so under the bill.
MS. DELANEY responded it would depend on the conditions of the
claim. She explained that existing claims would continue as
before. She offered to further research this but added that an
individual would not be allowed to apply for a new claim.
CHAIR STUTES suggested she must be referring to permits and
questioned whether the permittees would be eligible for
additional permit expansion. She asked the sponsor to research
this and report back to the committee.
MS. DELANEY agreed to research and report back to the committee
on expansion of mining permits and existing claims.
11:15:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN said he previously thought there was a
process for new mining claims [under the bill]; however, he now
understood new claims would not be allowed.
MS. DELANEY agreed new mining claims would be prohibited.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN further asked if a new mineral deposit
was discovered whether mining the deposit would be prohibited
under the proposed refuge.
MS. DELANEY agreed it would be prohibited.
11:16:30 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON offered clarification on an earlier
question. He referred to page 7, lines 21-24 of HB 272, which
would allow existing claims to be pursued but would prohibit
prospective claims. He acknowledged that this would not
necessarily answer questions on expansions of existing claims.
He offered to research and report back to the committee.
11:16:56 AM
MS. DELANEY continued reviewing slide 12, noting that HB 272
would prohibit the sale of state land within the proposed refuge
boundary. She said that the DNR and ADF&G would have the
authority to issue leases provided the leases were compatible
with the goals of the proposed Tangle Lakes State Game Refuge.
She stated the effective date of HB 272 was January 1, 2019.
11:17:30 AM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT said that in reviewing the brochure [in
members' packets] Alaska has 32 existing refuges that encompass
approximately 3.2 million acres. The proposed Tangle Lakes
State Game Refuge would add 156,000 acres in national
sanctuaries, refuges, and critical habitat areas in Alaska.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON answered that the figure of 32 existing
refuges includes critical habitat, sanctuaries, and other set
asides of various forms.
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT specifically referred to page 4, number
4 of the brochure, which stated "... 32 refuges, sanctuaries,
and critical habitat areas encompassing 3.2 million acres. He
reiterated that this would add 156,000 additional acres to that
figure.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON agreed that those figures sounded
correct.
11:19:09 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked for the reason to create the
proposed Tangle Lakes State Game Refuge now and not just wait
another ten to twenty years.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON offered that a general allowance exists
for mining on state lands unless specifically prohibited. He
explained that HB 272, to create this proposed refuge, has been
under consideration for some time by those residing along the
Richardson corridor between Fairbanks and Valdez and east toward
Chitina. Part of the appeal [of HB 272, creating the proposed
refuge] was that currently there were not a lot of mining claims
made in the proposed Tangle Lakes State Game Refuge area. He
explained that once a vested interest was entered, a property
interest would be formed, and it becomes a "vested interest,"
although he noted a legal debate exists on this. He said that
some hunting, fishing, and other recreational interests would
like to create a refuge. Anecdotally having spoken to some
hunters in the area, he has found that these hunters would
prefer to do so without mining claims adjacent to their
recreational activity.
11:20:45 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN further asked for the status of the
general health of the [Nelchina caribou] herd and if the herd
was increasing or decreasing.
MS. DELANEY said she was unsure but offered to research this and
report back to the committee.
11:21:41 AM
ED KING, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), said that the DNR's
interpretation of HB 272 was that if the bill were to take
effect that no additional claims could be entered, so no
additional acreage in any form could occur. He explained that
mining claims were not like leases that expand and contract but
are staked and claimed. This bill would prevent any new claims
from being made in the refuge area. He related his
understanding that the ability to pursue the claims already in
effect would continue to be allowed, which could include
expansion of the types of activities happening on the existing
claims; however, no expansion beyond the claim could happen.
11:22:39 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TARR asked for further clarification on whether
the sponsor had any information on any prior efforts at this
issue. She noted one letter of support in members' packets
expressed hope that this bill would pass this year.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON said he was unfamiliar with previous
efforts to create the [Tangle Lakes State Game Refuge]. He
offered his belief that this has "been brewing" for many years.
He further offered to research this and report to the committee
on any history of prior efforts to create a refuge.
11:23:36 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked for the strategy behind the
effective date.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON said he was unsure of any strategy
taken for the bill. He suspected that the Legislative Legal and
Research Services attorney prepared it that way.
11:24:28 AM
CLIFF EAMES, Chair, Board of Directors, Copper Country Alliance,
stated that the Copper Country Alliance was a regional
conservation organization whose mission is to protect the rural
and wild character of the Copper Basin, Wrangell Mountain area.
MR. EAMES wanted to discuss his experiences in the proposed
refuge boundary, but since some discussion has arisen with
respect to mining, he directed his comments to mining. He
stated that the map in the presentation was from 2012. He
related his understanding that as of the end of 2017 no valid
existing mining claims fall within the proposed Tangle Lakes
State Game Refuge boundary. The remaining mining interests lie
north of the proposed refuge boundary.
MR. EAMES pointed out that his organization has reviewed more
than two decades of mining interests in the area and a "fair"
amount of exploration activity. One of the larger mining
companies, Anglo American, invested approximately two to four
summers in exploration efforts, plus a Japanese international
mining company worked for one or two summers, but both companies
failed to find any commercially valuable deposits and the
companies have left the area. He further recalled another
company failed to find viable resources in the area and this
history suggests a strong likelihood that there were not large,
commercially valuable deposits within the boundaries of the
proposed Tangle Lakes State Game Refuge. Now seemed to be an
appropriate time to establish a refuge to primarily protect the
Nelchina caribou herd, since that herd is of huge importance to
a large swath of the state, including the Railbelt communities
of Anchorage, Fairbanks, and the Mat-Su valley. Additionally,
the Copper River Basin residents rely on caribou for their
winter food.
11:28:07 AM
MR. EAMES said that he has frequented the area, having
backpacked, gone on day hikes, and watched birds, caribou,
moose, and grizzly bears. He has also picked blueberries,
cranberries, enjoyed wildflowers and has been a "sightseer" on
all his trips to the proposed refuge area.
MR. EAMES noted that tour buses come across the Denali Highway
and stop at the Maclaren River Lodge for lunch, creating
opportunities for that lodge. Typically, he and his wife stop
at the Meiers Lake Roadhouse at Gakona enroute from Kenny Lake
to the proposed Tangle Lakes State Game Refuge site, which again
provides some economic benefits. He reported that the area
supports excellent grayling fishing and three watersheds of
Tangle/Delta, Gulkana, and Chitina that could be affected by
large-scale mining. He offered his belief that large-scale
mining would not be the "mom-pop" operations, but international,
industrial mining with significant side effects. He strongly
recommended passage of the bill by the committee with a
recommendation of passage by the full house. The sustainable
resources in this area far outweigh any possible benefits that
mining might bring, he said.
11:30:47 AM
CHAIR STUTES stated that the bill has two attached zero fiscal
notes. She announced that the bill would be set aside for a
hearing at a future date.
[HB 272 was held over.]
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 149 ver D 3.1.17.PDF |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM |
HB 149 |
| HB 149 Sponsor Statement 01.22.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM |
HB 149 |
| HB 149 UFA support HseFisheries 01.22.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM |
HB 149 |
| HB 149-AS 16.05.251-01.22.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM |
HB 149 |
| HB 149-AS 16.05.300-01.22.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM |
HB 149 |
| HB 272 ver U 1.22.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/7/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB272 Sectional Analysis ver U 1.22.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/7/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB272 Sponsor Statement 1.22.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB272 Additional Documents-Map 1.22.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB272 Supporting Document-Emails 1.22.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| Amendment #1.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM |
HB 149 |
| HB 272 Presentation2.12.18.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM |
HB 272 |
| HB 272 Supporting Emails.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/7/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB 272 Letters of Support (combined).pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/7/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB272-support letters Palin and Murkowski.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB 272 Supporting Document Media Release CCA.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/7/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB 272 Supporting Document-AK-BHA Position.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB 272 Supporting Document Pure Nickel.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB 272 Supporting Document-Bente BOG comment.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/7/2018 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB 272 Supporting Document AK BHA Proposal.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/7/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB 272 Supporting Document-Bente BOG comment.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM |
HB 272 |
| HB 272 Opposing Document Ahtna Incorporated.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/12/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 272 |
| HB 149 Amendment #1.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2018 11:00:00 AM |
HB 149 |