Legislature(2023 - 2024)ADAMS 519

02/12/2024 01:30 PM House FINANCE

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Audio Topic
01:38:37 PM Start
01:39:41 PM Overview: Fy 25 Budget Department of Corrections
03:23:41 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 268 APPROP: OPERATING BUDGET; CAP; SUPP; AM TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 270 APPROP: MENTAL HEALTH BUDGET TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Overview: FY 25 Budget by Commissioner Jen TELECONFERENCED
Winkelman; April Wilkerson, Deputy Commissioner;
and Teri West, Administrative Services Director,
Department of Corrections
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
HOUSE BILL NO. 268                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An  Act making  appropriations for  the operating  and                                                                    
     loan  program  expenses  of state  government  and  for                                                                    
     certain   programs;    capitalizing   funds;   amending                                                                    
     appropriations;  making capital  appropriations; making                                                                    
     supplemental  appropriations; making  reappropriations;                                                                    
     making  appropriations  under   art.  IX,  sec.  17(c),                                                                    
     Constitution  of   the  State   of  Alaska,   from  the                                                                    
     constitutional budget  reserve fund; and  providing for                                                                    
     an effective date."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 270                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An  Act making  appropriations for  the operating  and                                                                    
     capital    expenses   of    the   state's    integrated                                                                    
     comprehensive mental health  program; and providing for                                                                    
     an effective date."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW: FY 25 BUDGET DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:39:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JENNIFER    WINKELMAN,     COMMISSIONER,    DEPARTMENT    OF                                                                    
CORRECTIONS, introduced  herself and available staff  in the                                                                    
room  and online.  She  provided  a PowerPoint  presentation                                                                    
titled  "Department of  Corrections FY2025  Budget Overview:                                                                    
House Finance  Committee," dated February 12,  2024 (copy on                                                                    
file).  She  briefly  reviewed an  organizational  chart  on                                                                    
slide 2.  She shared that  the individuals shown on  slide 2                                                                    
had  over  130 years  of  Alaska  Department of  Corrections                                                                    
(DOC)  experience. She  drew attention  to the  Parole Board                                                                    
and relayed that  it was housed budgetarily  within DOC, but                                                                    
it operated  autonomously. The executive director  and staff                                                                    
worked  directly for  the  Parole Board  and  the board  was                                                                    
appointed by the governor and confirmed by the legislature.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman turned  to the  department's mission                                                                    
and core  services on  slide 3.  She informed  the committee                                                                    
that  DOC  was  originally   a  division  housed  under  the                                                                    
Department of Health and Social  Services. She detailed that                                                                    
in  1984 the  division had  been  separated out  as its  own                                                                    
department under  Governor Bill Sheffield.  The department's                                                                    
mission was grounded  by the Alaska Constitution  and was to                                                                    
provide  secure  confinement,  reformative programs,  and  a                                                                    
process  of supervised  community  reintegration to  enhance                                                                    
the safety of  Alaska's communities. She noted  DOC had over                                                                    
2,100 positions  and was  second only  to the  Department of                                                                    
Transportation and Public Facilities  in terms of staff. The                                                                    
department's  FY 25  budget request  was $450.65  million. A                                                                    
table on  the bottom of  the slide showed the  core services                                                                    
provided by each of the department's four divisions.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:42:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman turned to  slide 4 titled "Department                                                                    
of Corrections (DOC) at a  Glance." She relayed that DOC was                                                                    
a unified  system and  its prisons  operated under  the same                                                                    
umbrella. She  reported there were seven  unified systems in                                                                    
the United States.  She noted that West  Virginia was unique                                                                    
because  it   housed  everything  under  one   umbrella  but                                                                    
separated  the  holding  of prisoners  in  a  sentenced  and                                                                    
unsentenced capacity.  She detailed  that DOC  booked 27,785                                                                    
offenders into  its facilities  in FY  23 and  16,662 unique                                                                    
offenders.  She explained  the  difference  between the  two                                                                    
numbers was  that individuals were  booked in more  than one                                                                    
time per year.  For example, one individual  had been booked                                                                    
into a  facility 94  times over  a three-year  period, which                                                                    
equated to one  remand every 1.5 weeks for  three years. The                                                                    
department was responsible for  nearly 11,000 individuals at                                                                    
any given time. She elaborated  that there were nearly 4,500                                                                    
in  its  facilities,  over 200  unsentenced  individuals  on                                                                    
electronic   monitoring,   over   300   in   its   community                                                                    
residential centers (CRCs), [3,822]  on probation or parole,                                                                    
and [2,017] on pretrial supervision.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:44:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman highlighted  the department's  major                                                                    
accomplishments in FY 23 on  slide 5. She stated that Senate                                                                    
Bill 119  had passed  the previous  year. She  detailed that                                                                    
DOC recognized the challenges offenders  face when they were                                                                    
released from a  facility without an ID in  terms of getting                                                                    
a  job  or  opening  a  bank  account.  The  department  had                                                                    
produced  the identification  for the  inmates' release  and                                                                    
with the legislature's  help, the ID became a  valid form of                                                                    
identification.  She addressed  the second  bullet point  on                                                                    
the slide  and stated that  the health and wellbeing  of its                                                                    
staff  and inmates  were  DOC's  most important  priorities;                                                                    
therefore,  it   had  established  a   wellness  coordinator                                                                    
position  in the  commissioner's  office to  help with  that                                                                    
vision.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  reviewed the  third bullet  point on                                                                    
slide 5. She relayed that DOC  was striving to become a zero                                                                    
suicide  agency  with  a systemwide  approach  to  improving                                                                    
outcomes related  to suicidal individuals and  closing gaps.                                                                    
The  department  partnered   with  American  Foundation  for                                                                    
Suicide  Prevention (AFSP)  on Project  2025 [in  efforts to                                                                    
reduce  in-custody  annual  suicide   rates  20  percent  by                                                                    
calendar  year   2025].  For  nearly   two  years   the  DOC                                                                    
facilities were below capacity. She  remarked that it was no                                                                    
mistake  and it  contributed to  staff and  inmate wellness;                                                                    
however,  it came  at a  cost  of moving  inmates and  staff                                                                    
around.  She   shared  that  DOC  had   partnered  with  the                                                                    
Department  of   Public  Safety  to  hire   an  investigator                                                                    
specifically  assigned to  DOC for  incidences occurring  in                                                                    
DOC  facilities. She  explained  that multiple  troopers/law                                                                    
enforcement  may  respond,  the single  individual  provided                                                                    
oversight of the process and  provided efficiency within the                                                                    
department.  She  relayed  that   despite  facing  the  same                                                                    
workforce issues  impacting all agencies, DOC  had hired 166                                                                    
new  officers.  The  problem  was not  solved,  but  it  was                                                                    
trending in  the right  direction. The  department processed                                                                    
nearly  2,000  correctional  officer  applications  and  710                                                                    
probation officer applications in FY 23.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:46:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman addressed key  challenges on slide 6.                                                                    
She  stated that  the  department was  faced  with the  same                                                                    
workforce  challenges   as  others.   Additionally,  working                                                                    
inside  DOC facilities  combined with  social unrest  around                                                                    
law  enforcement  made  the  jobs  tough.  The  department's                                                                    
primary  key  challenge  was recruitment  and  retention  of                                                                    
well-trained staff.  She relayed that  if DOC could  fix the                                                                    
retention  problem  it  would  not have  to  deal  with  the                                                                    
recruitment end  of things. The  department was  the largest                                                                    
mental health  provider in  the state.  She did  not believe                                                                    
anyone  would disagree  that sometimes  prison  was not  the                                                                    
number one place for the mental health population.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman continued  to  review challenges  on                                                                    
slide  6.  She  stated  that   while  Alaska  had  an  aging                                                                    
population,  so did  DOC facilities.  She  shared that  over                                                                    
half of the corrections  population came with chronic health                                                                    
conditions,  which   were  often  compounded  by   years  of                                                                    
substance abuse.  She remarked  that it  was a  challenge to                                                                    
address  the complex  needs,  particularly  when there  were                                                                    
limited resources available (in  facilities and upon release                                                                    
from  custody). The  facilities were  aging, and  the upkeep                                                                    
and infrastructure of the facilities  and technology used to                                                                    
help with programming and education  made it challenging and                                                                    
expensive  to provide  innovative programming.  She remarked                                                                    
that unfortunately  the items all cost  a substantial amount                                                                    
of money.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman shared that  the DOC population was a                                                                    
result  of  any  changes  to policy,  law  enforcement,  the                                                                    
Department  of Law,  public defenders,  and the  courts. She                                                                    
stated that  sometimes it  was very  tricky to  predict. She                                                                    
explained  that one  catastrophic case  could disrupt  DOC's                                                                    
entire plan.  For example, there was  a fight in one  of the                                                                    
facilities the previous Friday  that involved 17 individuals                                                                    
and  three   went  to  the  hospital.   The  department  was                                                                    
scrambling to  separate individuals and move  them around to                                                                    
facilities.  Additionally, it  required calling  in officers                                                                    
on overtime to oversee the  individuals at the hospital. She                                                                    
stated that  accomplishments and challenges came  at a cost.                                                                    
The department was working tirelessly  with OMB to develop a                                                                    
budget  to true  up the  department and  get it  out of  the                                                                    
cycle of supplemental budgets.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Johnson referenced  the  166 corrections  officers                                                                    
that had been hired [in FY  23]. She asked for the number of                                                                    
vacant correctional officer positions.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  replied that  the department  had an                                                                    
overall vacancy rate  of 12 percent; however,  that rate was                                                                    
much higher in  some areas and facilities.  She believed the                                                                    
current  vacancy  rate  for correctional  officers  was  8.7                                                                    
percent  (down from  10  percent a  couple  of weeks  back).                                                                    
Additional  vacancy  rates were  over  30  percent for  food                                                                    
service,  nearly 20  percent for  probation officers,  and 8                                                                    
percent for medical and mental  health. She highlighted that                                                                    
the Spring Creek  Correctional Center had a  vacancy rate of                                                                    
over 25  percent. She explained that  a correctional officer                                                                    
vacancy rate of nearly 30  percent at Spring Creek meant DOC                                                                    
was  transferring  staff  around temporarily  to  cover  the                                                                    
vacancies.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:51:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Johnson  asked   about  the   number  of   vacant                                                                    
positions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  replied that  as of January  8 there                                                                    
were 265 vacant positions.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Johnson   asked  if  the  166   [new  correctional                                                                    
officers] had been hired into vacant positions.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman  responded  that the  265  vacancies                                                                    
included all positions within the  department. In FY 23, the                                                                    
department  had  115  correctional officer  separations  and                                                                    
hired 166 new officers.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Johnson asked  for the  current  number of  vacant                                                                    
correctional officer positions.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman replied about 100.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Ortiz  asked  about   the  reasons  for  the                                                                    
particularly  high   vacancy  rate  at   the  aforementioned                                                                    
[Spring Creek] facility.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman  answered   that  Spring  Creek  was                                                                    
located  in  Seward. She  detailed  that  it was  a  maximum                                                                    
facility  and   there  was  very  limited   housing  in  the                                                                    
community, which was responsible  for most of the vacancies.                                                                    
She elaborated  that about half  of the staff  was commuting                                                                    
from  Anchorage or  the Kenai  area on  a week-on,  week-off                                                                    
basis.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Ortiz asked  if the  8 percent  vacancy rate                                                                    
was  higher  than in  recent  years  or reflected  a  steady                                                                    
number.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner   Winkelman  answered   that  the   number  was                                                                    
declining  slightly  and  the  department  was  making  some                                                                    
headway. She reported that  the correctional officer vacancy                                                                    
rate had been  12 percent at one point during  her tenure as                                                                    
commissioner.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:54:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hannan  referenced Commissioner  Winkelman's                                                                    
statement   that   the   department  had   processed   2,000                                                                    
applications  for correctional  officers and  had hired  166                                                                    
individuals. She  asked if the  department had  offered jobs                                                                    
to  individuals who  had not  accepted or  if they  had been                                                                    
washed out in the application process.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  answered that  for the most  part it                                                                    
was the psychological exam  that eliminated individuals from                                                                    
the process.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hannan  asked  if  the  department  had  any                                                                    
letters  of agreement  with  bonuses  and retention  efforts                                                                    
targeting  specific facilities.  For  example,  if a  person                                                                    
took a  correctional officer position  at Spring  Creek they                                                                    
would  receive a  bonus, whereas  the position  in Anchorage                                                                    
would  not receive  a bonus.  She asked  how the  incentives                                                                    
were working.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner   Winkelman    responded   affirmatively.   She                                                                    
detailed  that the  incentives were  offered for  the Spring                                                                    
Creek   Correctional  Center   and  Anchorage   Correctional                                                                    
Complex. She  shared that  they had  seen some  headway with                                                                    
regard  to hiring  at Spring  Creek  due to  the letters  of                                                                    
agreement;  however, there  continued  to  be a  substantial                                                                    
vacancy  rate. The  department  had also  made  a letter  of                                                                    
agreement with  the Department of  Administration pertaining                                                                    
to housing. She explained  that the administrative code gave                                                                    
people up  to 15  days to  find housing in  an area  and DOC                                                                    
asked to extend  the timeframe to 120 days to  give time for                                                                    
individuals  to relocate  and  have a  longer  time to  find                                                                    
housing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  was receiving  some correspondence                                                                    
about deaths  in prison,  which was  an ongoing  problem. He                                                                    
recalled  former  Senator  Hollis French  presiding  over  a                                                                    
hearing  on  the topic.  He  asked  what percentage  of  the                                                                    
deaths were not a result of suicide.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  would follow up with  the breakdown.                                                                    
She would  also touch on the  deaths in the system  later in                                                                    
the presentation.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson   recalled  correctional  officers                                                                    
wanting to be personally  involved in the recruiting effort.                                                                    
To  have a  couple  of people  paid to  do  so, mirroring  a                                                                    
recruiting unit akin to the  Department of Public Safety and                                                                    
the  troopers.  He  asked   if  correctional  officers  were                                                                    
involved   in  recruitment.   He  noted   that  correctional                                                                    
officers' theory was that they  knew the job and could speak                                                                    
to the applicants.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:58:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  responded that  it was up  and going                                                                    
and  there were  two  correctional officers  working in  the                                                                    
recruitment unit  who were able to  attend recruitment fairs                                                                    
and assist with all things pertaining to recruitment.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson stated that  sometime staff did not                                                                    
want overtime  and sometimes  they did.  He asked  where the                                                                    
correctional officers stood on  the question of overtime. He                                                                    
asked if  they were  frustrated or  simply did  the overtime                                                                    
and were rewarded for it.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman   responded  that   anecdotally  the                                                                    
correctional  officers were  tired  of it  and wanted  their                                                                    
week off.  There was a  letter of agreement to  pay officers                                                                    
double time  for their  overtime. The  department discovered                                                                    
that  the  change  resulted in  reduced  call  outs  because                                                                    
individuals  received overtime  if  they  worked their  full                                                                    
workweek  and  DOC  was  mandating  fewer  people  in.  Some                                                                    
individuals had  become accustomed  to the overtime  and did                                                                    
not want it  to be reduced, whereas  most individuals wanted                                                                    
their week off.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Johnson acknowledged  Representative Andrew Gray in                                                                    
the room.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:00:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
APRIL   WILKERSON,   DEPUTY  COMMISSIONER,   DEPARTMENT   OF                                                                    
CORRECTIONS, turned  to a chart titled  "Funding History" on                                                                    
slide  7.  The  slide  showed  FY  23  actuals,  the  FY  24                                                                    
management plan,  and the FY  24 supplemental.  Overall, the                                                                    
FY 25  budget reflected  an increase  of about  7.1 percent.                                                                    
The FY 24 supplemental items  reflected an increase of $31.8                                                                    
million including  a $201,000 increase  to meet  the medical                                                                    
testing  for  the  APSC [Alaska  Police  Standards  Council]                                                                    
certified positions  (correctional and  probation officers).                                                                    
The budget  also included a  $15.5 million increase  for the                                                                    
institutions. The  $15.5 million request was  broken into an                                                                    
$8 million increase replacing $7.5  million moved out of the                                                                    
commodity and  service line from  the previous year  into an                                                                    
overtime  allocation  and a  $7.5  million  increase in  the                                                                    
personal  service  line.  The second  amount  included  $2.5                                                                    
million to  meet the 2 percent  salary adjustment associated                                                                    
with   the  correctional   officer   bargaining  letter   of                                                                    
agreement that  was not  included in the  FY 24  budget. The                                                                    
remaining  $5 million  was associated  with overtime.  There                                                                    
was  $4.6 million  in  pretrial  services. The  presentation                                                                    
would  delve  deeper  into  the   amounts  because  DOC  was                                                                    
requesting an  increase in the  budget associated  with each                                                                    
of  the   items.  The  amount  for   pretrial  services  was                                                                    
associated with  a continued increase in  utilization of the                                                                    
pretrial  services supervision.  There was  $6.6 million  in                                                                    
the  supplemental associated  with CRCs.  She detailed  that                                                                    
DOC  had  increased utilization  of  CRCs  in the  community                                                                    
placements. Additionally,  there was a  significant increase                                                                    
in a  contract negotiated in  October [2023] that  went into                                                                    
effect in November [2023].                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson continued to review  slide 7. There was a $3.5                                                                    
million increase in physical  healthcare. The department put                                                                    
forward a decrement in the  physical healthcare budget in FY                                                                    
24; however,  DOC did  not achieve  the savings  and reduced                                                                    
costs  it had  anticipated.  Therefore,  DOC was  requesting                                                                    
about 50 percent  of the amount to go back  into the budget.                                                                    
There  was  an $8  million  increase  to the  general  funds                                                                    
associated  with   a  fund   change  from   federal  receipt                                                                    
authority  over  to  general funds  specifically  associated                                                                    
with  a  reduction in  DOC's  federal  manday billings.  The                                                                    
department had seen a substantial  decrease in the number of                                                                    
individuals  the department  was  able to  bill the  federal                                                                    
government for.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stapp looked  at the  FY 24  supplemental on                                                                    
slide 7 showing federal receipts  of $9 million. He remarked                                                                    
that the  FY 25 request  for federal funds of  $17.9 million                                                                    
was  very similar  to the  FY 23  actuals. He  asked if  the                                                                    
change  in federal  receipt authority  to general  funds was                                                                    
applicable in  the $17.9 million  in federal funding  for FY                                                                    
25. Alternatively,  he asked if the  previous occurrence had                                                                    
been an anomaly.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson answered that DOC  was trying to work with the                                                                    
federal  government  to  identify  whether  it  would  be  a                                                                    
continuation  of  the  reduction in  federal  receipts.  The                                                                    
department did  not know  the precise  amount, but  it would                                                                    
have to reduce the federal receipt authority for FY 25.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stapp assumed  the close  to $18  million in                                                                    
federal receipt  authority [shown  for the  FY 25  budget on                                                                    
slide 7] may not materialize.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson  agreed. She explained that  DOC was uncertain                                                                    
whether it would need a full  $8 million adjustment in FY 25                                                                    
or if it could be reduced down.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Stapp  asked about the 265  vacant positions.                                                                    
He asked what the salary  savings would be above the vacancy                                                                    
factor when applied to the overtime request.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson replied that she  did not have the information                                                                    
on hand and would provide it to the committee.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:06:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Johnson  asked for the  information to  be provided                                                                    
to her office for distribution to the committee.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson  reviewed  a  pie chart  showing  the  FY  25                                                                    
operating budget by  fund source on slide  8. The department                                                                    
was primarily  funded with general funds.  Additionally, the                                                                    
department's "other" funding  category included funding from                                                                    
the  Alaska  Mental  Health   Trust  Authority  (AMHTA)  and                                                                    
restorative  justice  funds.   The  department's  designated                                                                    
general   funds  (DGF)   fund  source   included  recidivism                                                                    
reduction   funds.   Additionally,  general   fund   program                                                                    
receipts were  collected through  the cost  of incarceration                                                                    
and manday billings to local and municipal entities.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson turned to a  pie chart on slide 9 representing                                                                    
DOC's  FY  25  budget  broken out  by  line  item.  Personal                                                                    
services accounted for  the bulk of the  budget and included                                                                    
benefits. The  department did not have  a substantial amount                                                                    
of overtime  budgeted; therefore, overtime worked  came from                                                                    
vacant positions.  The services line was  the second largest                                                                    
line item  and included fixed costs,  utilities, contractual                                                                    
services  (e.g.,  halfway   houses,  electronic  monitoring,                                                                    
jails, and  medical and mental health  services). The travel                                                                    
line  was  small  and  was primarily  made  up  of  prisoner                                                                    
transports,  point  of  arrest, field  supervision,  medical                                                                    
travel,  and  temporary  duty assignments  where  DOC  moved                                                                    
officers around to provide coverage.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:08:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson turned to a pie  chart on slide 10 showing the                                                                    
FY  25 operating  budget request  by division.  Institutions                                                                    
was the largest division and made  up over 64 percent of the                                                                    
department's budget. The  Health and Rehabilitation Division                                                                    
was the second largest and included programming.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson turned slide 11  showing the services provided                                                                    
by each  of the department's  divisions. She noted  that the                                                                    
Administration   and    Support   Division    included   the                                                                    
commissioner's office,  employee wellness, and  the offender                                                                    
DNA  program  where DOC  collected  DNA  from offenders  for                                                                    
qualifying charges.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:09:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Coulombe looked  at the  259 permanent  full                                                                    
time positions  under health and rehabilitation  services on                                                                    
slide 11.  She thought  most of  the positions  pertained to                                                                    
health.  She asked  about the  number of  positions and  the                                                                    
amount of funding dedicated towards rehabilitation.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson  responded  that   about  $67.5  million  was                                                                    
associated with  physical healthcare and 174  positions. The                                                                    
department  could  follow  up  with  additional  information                                                                    
showing  the  breakout.  She  added  that  the  majority  of                                                                    
services  within  sex   offender  management,  the  domestic                                                                    
violence   program,    and   education/vocational   programs                                                                    
utilized contracts where contractors provided services.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Coulombe asked  if  the  $94 million  [under                                                                    
health and rehabilitation services] included the contracts.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson  responded that it  was the total and  was not                                                                    
broken out by  line item on slide 11. She  offered to follow                                                                    
up with the information.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stapp  took  2  percent  from  the  personal                                                                    
services  line  to  estimate   vacancy  salary  savings.  He                                                                    
calculated  the amount  to be  $6 million.  He imagined  the                                                                    
department   would   use   the  amount   before   requesting                                                                    
supplemental funds for overtime.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson replied affirmatively.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Stapp  asked   how   overtime  hours   were                                                                    
allocated.  He asked  if the  highest paid  senior employees                                                                    
received  overtime  first.  Alternatively,  he  wondered  if                                                                    
overtime hours were allocated to everyone who wanted them.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson  answered  that  it  depended  on  bargaining                                                                    
units.  Overtime hours  were based  on seniority  within the                                                                    
correctional   officer  bargaining   unit.  For   the  other                                                                    
bargaining units, it  depended on the job.  She used nursing                                                                    
as  an example.  There  was  a standby  list  and  a cap  on                                                                    
overtime associated with nurses.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Stapp asked if the  decision to give the most                                                                    
senior people overtime  was a decision made by  DOC or based                                                                    
on   a   negotiated   agreement   by   the   Department   of                                                                    
Administration (DOA).                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson  responded  it  was  a  negotiated  agreement                                                                    
between the union and DOA.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:13:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Ortiz  asked how  much it  cost to  house and                                                                    
care for each individual inmate.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson answered  there was  an annual  cost of  care                                                                    
agreement  was  coordinated  with  the  U.S.  marshals.  She                                                                    
relayed it  was generally  a calendar  year rate.  The prior                                                                    
rate  was $176  per inmate  per  day. The  current rate  was                                                                    
under review and the new rate  of $202.21 per inmate per day                                                                    
would go into effect on April 1.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Stapp estimated the number to be $73,000.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Edgmon  asked if  the number  could be  broken down                                                                    
per  total   cost  above  the   daily  operating   cost.  He                                                                    
understood the number of prisoners  at any time was a moving                                                                    
number. He  asked for  the cost per  prisoner if  the budget                                                                    
was in  the $400 million  range and there were  around 6,000                                                                    
inmates.  He  estimated  the  amount  was  several  thousand                                                                    
dollars per  prisoner, not $100+  per day. He stated  it was                                                                    
not a "got you" question.  He reasoned that the number would                                                                    
increase  if there  were 3,000  prisoners  instead of  6,000                                                                    
because it was still necessary  to account for the brick and                                                                    
mortar element  of the facilities.  He asked  the department                                                                    
to follow  up with  a ballpark number  when it  provided its                                                                    
other responses to the committee.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Ortiz remarked  that the  question posed  by                                                                    
Co-Chair Edgmon was also the intent of his question.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:16:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Galvin  stated  her understanding  that  the                                                                    
larger numbers  were around 30  percent higher in  one year.                                                                    
She  highlighted concerns  over  recruitment and  retention,                                                                    
housing, healthcare,  overtime, transportation,  and energy.                                                                    
She remarked that  it sounded similar to  what the committee                                                                    
had been hearing from other  departments. She noted that the                                                                    
unique aspect  was what  DOC did when  someone did  not show                                                                    
up. She  did not think it  could happen because it  would be                                                                    
unsafe.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  answered it involved  shifting staff                                                                    
from other  facilities and shifting inmates.  The department                                                                    
was  constantly  looking at  its  staffing  profile to  move                                                                    
pieces around to make it safe for everyone.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Galvin highlighted  education as another area                                                                    
of service in the  state's constitution. She highlighted the                                                                    
problems that  occurred when  there were  not adults  in the                                                                    
room, there  were too many  children in a room  with special                                                                    
needs  and   no  paraprofessionals.  She  remarked   on  the                                                                    
similarity of  the challenges pertaining to  recruitment and                                                                    
retention,  housing, healthcare,  and  overtime. She  stated                                                                    
that scaling did  not work when there was  one facility with                                                                    
numerous needs and another with  fewer needs. She noted that                                                                    
it  was not  feasible to  just  close a  facility down.  She                                                                    
believed it  was a  puzzle that needed  to be  talked about.                                                                    
She stated that  that particular part of the  budget did not                                                                    
come  up in  "this body."  She thought  it was  important to                                                                    
understand  because  it  was   another  area  that  required                                                                    
skilled  workers  with  Alaskans.  She  asked  about  mental                                                                    
health. She recalled a conversation  in her office about the                                                                    
time  spent intaking  prisoners and  whether the  department                                                                    
had  the time  and resources  to identify  those individuals                                                                    
with mental health needs. She  wondered what DOC had done to                                                                    
ensure  it could  identify  individuals  with mental  health                                                                    
needs at intake.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:20:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman answered that  the intake process was                                                                    
a matter  of substantial  questioning during  a time  that a                                                                    
person  may  not  be  at  their best  and  may  not  divulge                                                                    
everything that's  going on. Intake involved  a physical and                                                                    
written assessment  of the individual in  addition to trying                                                                    
to  connect   with  outside  resources.  She   believed  the                                                                    
department  did  the  best it  could  with  the  information                                                                    
provided.  She   referenced  a  previous  slide   where  she                                                                    
addressed   working   with   the   Foundation   on   Suicide                                                                    
Prevention. One of the key  objectives with the group was to                                                                    
identify gaps  in the screening  process. She  was confident                                                                    
the department  was making headway  but it was  not balanced                                                                    
with the incoming volume.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:22:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  shared  that the  past  fall  his                                                                    
office had tried  to get detailed information  about when an                                                                    
inmate  was entitled  to exams  that should  be done  at the                                                                    
interest of the individual. His  office had been directed to                                                                    
a  manual that  was difficult  to find,  which included  the                                                                    
model code specifying  when an inmate should  be entitled to                                                                    
colonoscopies,  mammograms, and  other tests.  He had  heard                                                                    
that an  inmate had been  denied a colonoscopy  because they                                                                    
were told  it was too  expensive and had  to be done  out of                                                                    
the prison. He was looking  for something concrete as to any                                                                    
number of basic  services provided in the  modern world such                                                                    
as the aforementioned examples.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman  deferred  to  a  colleague  on  the                                                                    
phone.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:23:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson restated his question.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR. ROBERT  LAWRENCE, CHIEF  MEDICAL OFFICER,  DEPARTMENT OF                                                                    
CORRECTIONS (via teleconference),  responded that in general                                                                    
the  department was  responsible  for  paying for  essential                                                                    
healthcare for  inmates. He clarified  that it did  not mean                                                                    
DOC provided Cadillac healthcare or  any care a person could                                                                    
otherwise afford  in the  community, but  it also  meant DOC                                                                    
did  not  provide deficient  care.  He  elaborated that  DOC                                                                    
would pay for  and arrange for any care  required to prevent                                                                    
the  onset  of illness  or  to  prevent a  deterioration  in                                                                    
health  during  the  person's incarceration.  The  types  of                                                                    
screening  care to  prevent the  onset  of illness  included                                                                    
colonoscopy  and many  other forms  of care.  The department                                                                    
had  basic  guidelines  in   place  that  followed  national                                                                    
guidelines  to ensure  individuals received  age appropriate                                                                    
care.   There  may   be  discrepancies   between  what   was                                                                    
recommended  for  certain  age  groups  depending  on  which                                                                    
national agency  was followed. The  department did  its best                                                                    
to  ensure  Alaskans  were receiving  care  recommended  for                                                                    
their age in the most cost effective way.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  requested  a  table  showing  the                                                                    
included services.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:27:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson  turned  to slide  12  titled  "FY2025  Major                                                                    
Operating  Budget  Changes."  The  slide  reflected  an  $11                                                                    
million increase  to the  personal services  line associated                                                                    
with  the increase  in retirement  rates, health  insurance,                                                                    
and  collective  bargaining   unit  salary  adjustments  for                                                                    
correctional  officers, human  resources,  and GGU  [general                                                                    
government unit] positions. The  amount included an increase                                                                    
of about  2.5 percent associated  with the 2  percent salary                                                                    
adjustment  that was  inadvertently left  out of  the FY  24                                                                    
budget. The amount would be added  to the base budget for FY                                                                    
25.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:28:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson  turned to  slide 13  and continued  to review                                                                    
major  operating   budget  changes.  The  slide   showed  an                                                                    
increase of  $5.45 million within  the 13  institutions. She                                                                    
elaborated that the  amount would go to  the contractual and                                                                    
commodity line.  The FY  24 budget had  an increase  of $7.5                                                                    
million   that  was   transferred  out   into  an   overtime                                                                    
allocation.  The $5.45  million would  replace a  portion of                                                                    
the $7.5  million and was  specifically associated  with the                                                                    
cost of operating institutions  such as utilities, increased                                                                    
costs associated  with institutional supplies such  as food,                                                                    
clothing,  bedding,  security,   uniforms,  and  maintenance                                                                    
needs within institutions.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Johnson looked at slide  13 and asked if the Palmer                                                                    
Correctional Center or  Mat-Su Correctional Center reflected                                                                    
Mat-Su pretrial.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson   answered  that  they  were   two  different                                                                    
facilities.  She  explained  that  the  Mat-Su  Correctional                                                                    
Center  or pretrial  center was  located in  downtown Palmer                                                                    
and the Palmer Correctional Center was located in Sutton.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Johnson asked  for  verification  that the  Mat-Su                                                                    
Correctional Center was the Mat-Su pretrial facility.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson responded affirmatively.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Coulombe  asked if  the $7.5 million  used in                                                                    
FY 24 was  supposed to go to overtime, but  it had been used                                                                    
and  subsequently DOC  started using  the commodities  line.                                                                    
She was  unclear what  the $5.45 million  was for  [shown on                                                                    
slide 13] and how it related to the $7.5 the previous year.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms.   Wilkerson  responded   that  the   $7.5  million   was                                                                    
originally in the commodity and  contractual line within the                                                                    
institutions  in  the  FY 24  budget.  Working  through  the                                                                    
legislative  process, the  funding had  been moved  into the                                                                    
overtime allocation. The FY 24  supplemental showed that DOC                                                                    
needed  the  money back  in  the  contractual and  commodity                                                                    
lines to  meet the cost  of operating the  institutions. The                                                                    
[$5.45 million]  increment request  would replace  a portion                                                                    
of the $7.5 million.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:31:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Coulombe  looked at the  box on the  right of                                                                    
slide  13 showing  the institutional  authority increase  by                                                                    
facility.  She asked  if  it reflected  money  going to  the                                                                    
commodity line or overtime.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson  answered that  the money  was going  into the                                                                    
commodity and contractual lines.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Coulombe  asked  for verification  that  the                                                                    
money was needed because it  had been moved from commodities                                                                    
in FY 24 and was spent on overtime.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson agreed.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Edgmon  referenced  community jails.  He  remarked                                                                    
that institutions listed  on slide 13 had  seen requests for                                                                    
fixed costs.  He asked if  it was reasonable to  expect that                                                                    
community jails  vis--vis  local governments  facing similar                                                                    
increased costs would see an  increase commensurate with the                                                                    
rest of the department.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson  responded affirmatively.  She noted  that the                                                                    
director of  Pretrial, Probation, and Parole  was continuing                                                                    
to  work  on  the   standards  and  budget  allocation.  The                                                                    
department  anticipated there  were  some  fixed costs  that                                                                    
would have to be readjusted through the process.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:32:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Edgmon asked  what  it meant.  He  asked if  there                                                                    
would  be an  increase in  funding from  the state  to local                                                                    
community jails.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman responded  that  that  the goal  was                                                                    
that the working group would  come up with a budget template                                                                    
for  each community  jail in  the current  year. She  stated                                                                    
there were many unknowns currently.  She knew there was need                                                                    
and  requests likely  to  come through,  while  at the  same                                                                    
time,  some community  jails were  not used  very much.  The                                                                    
work  group was  trying to  figure  out how  the budget  was                                                                    
divided between  the 15  community jails.  She did  not know                                                                    
whether the work  group would ask for  additional funding or                                                                    
direct a larger portion of  funding to those needing funding                                                                    
and  a smaller  portion of  funding to  those that  were not                                                                    
being utilized.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Edgmon asked  if it was conceivable  there could be                                                                    
a  supplemental request  for community  jails in  FY 25.  He                                                                    
asked for verification that there  could be an uptick if all                                                                    
15 of the community jails utilized the local services.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman answered, "Conceivably yes."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:34:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tomaszewski  assumed all of the  prisoners in                                                                    
the state's jails were Alaskan  residents. He asked if there                                                                    
were  currently  any  inmates  from  out  of  the  state  or                                                                    
country.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman  replied  that  she  would  have  to                                                                    
follow up. She  explained that if someone was  brought in by                                                                    
immigration they were considered  part of the federal holds.                                                                    
She  detailed  that  there were  currently  just  under  200                                                                    
federal  inmates  and  the department  charged  the  federal                                                                    
government for those individuals.  The department would have                                                                    
to  do  a  poll  on  whether any  of  the  individuals  were                                                                    
citizens from outside of Alaska.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tomaszewski  stated that  $450 million  was a                                                                    
lot of money. He asked  if the prisoners were doing anything                                                                    
to generate revenue  for the state to pay their  own way. He                                                                    
used making license plates as an example.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  responded that  they were  not doing                                                                    
what  they used  to do  with  regard to  license plates  and                                                                    
furniture.  She explained  it had  to  do with  some of  the                                                                    
private  businesses being  in  competition  with the  inmate                                                                    
population. The  inmate population was currently  farming at                                                                    
Point  MacKenzie [Correctional  Farm]  and the  hope was  to                                                                    
expand  the  program even  for  the  local communities.  The                                                                    
department was  working with employers  in the  community on                                                                    
where it could  help provide inmate labor  for the positions                                                                    
they  were  having difficulty  with.  For  example, DOC  had                                                                    
recently  been  in  conversations  with  Bell's  Nursery  in                                                                    
Anchorage.  The  department  was looking  at  utilizing  the                                                                    
inmate workforce for  things that were costing  the state in                                                                    
other   areas.  Additionally,   the  department   was  doing                                                                    
educational and vocational training within its facilities.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:37:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Johnson recalled  that before  COVID-19 there  had                                                                    
been  a big  push in  the  building to  pass the  governor's                                                                    
legislation  to increase  penalties for  sexual offences  in                                                                    
addition  to  changes  related to  DOC.  She  believed  that                                                                    
because of those  changes there would be an  increase in the                                                                    
prison  population. She  recalled  the topic  had seemed  to                                                                    
consume an  entire session. She considered  that perhaps the                                                                    
pandemic  was  the  reason  the increase  had  not  come  to                                                                    
fruition. She  stated there had  been a big fiscal  note and                                                                    
somehow the  funding had been  included in the  base budget.                                                                    
She asked for comment from the department.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  answered it  had been somewhat  of a                                                                    
perfect  storm on  trying to  determine. She  explained that                                                                    
the  prison  population  had  not   grown  as  much  as  the                                                                    
department  thought it  would as  a  result of  some of  the                                                                    
legislation.   Anecdotally,   the  department   was   seeing                                                                    
individuals come in with much  more serious charges for much                                                                    
longer stays.  She listed potential reasons  including court                                                                    
backlogs,  complicated  cases,   complicated  mental  health                                                                    
concerns related  to the cases.  She informed  the committee                                                                    
that  three-quarters of  the  sentenced  population were  in                                                                    
custody  for a  crime against  a  person or  a sex  offence.                                                                    
There  had been  some  wiggle room  to  move inmates  around                                                                    
because  capacity  was  running  at about  84  percent.  She                                                                    
reiterated it  had been a  perfect storm. She  detailed that                                                                    
HB  49  passed and  then  COVID-19  hit, which  resulted  in                                                                    
reduced contact  of law enforcement  in the  communities and                                                                    
backlogs  in  court.  The department  had  anticipated  that                                                                    
courts  would  reopen   and  there  would  be   a  flood  of                                                                    
sentencings;  however,  that  had  not been  the  case.  She                                                                    
suggested it  could be  a result  of more  complicated cases                                                                    
dragging on for significantly more  time because there was a                                                                    
mixture  of  reasons  the individuals  were  in  the  prison                                                                    
system. She  stated there were  many very  different reasons                                                                    
driving the prison population.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Johnson noted that without  fail all of the budgets                                                                    
seemed to always be increasing.  She was trying to find some                                                                    
explanation and way it could be changed.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Stapp  observed it looked like  it would cost                                                                    
the state  about $78,000  per inmate per  year based  on the                                                                    
new daily  rate. He  relayed that he  had checked  the daily                                                                    
rate in  numerous other states  and those rates  ranged from                                                                    
$28,000 to $34,000 per year  per inmate. He remarked that in                                                                    
the past Alaska had outsourced  its prisoners to Arizona. He                                                                    
asked why the practice had  stopped. He vaguely recalled the                                                                    
state receiving hardened criminals  back. He wondered if the                                                                    
department had looked into the  policy again. He remarked on                                                                    
the escalation  of cost drivers  and thought the  cost would                                                                    
likely be  over $100,000  per prisoner  per year  in several                                                                    
years' time.  He wondered  if the  state should  be thinking                                                                    
about alternatives.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:41:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  answered that  the state  had opened                                                                    
the Goose  Creek Correctional  Center and  brought prisoners                                                                    
back to  the state.  There had been  a lot  of conversations                                                                    
regarding bringing back hardened  criminals with more of the                                                                    
gang  affiliations.  The  department had  not  talked  about                                                                    
gsending prisoners out or shuttering a facility.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Stapp  asked what the  state used to  pay the                                                                    
State of Arizona per prisoner in the past.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson  believed the  cost in  Arizona had  been just                                                                    
under  $100  per   day  when  the  state   had  removed  its                                                                    
prisoners. When  the state moved  prisoners to  Colorado the                                                                    
cost had  been around $115  to $125  per day in  addition to                                                                    
outside medical costs.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Stapp  asked for  verification that  the cost                                                                    
was increasing to $204 per day in Alaska.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson  answered, "Yes, just  under that."  She added                                                                    
that  when  the  state  had   brought  prisoners  home  from                                                                    
Colorado in 2013 it was an  increase of about $30 per day to                                                                    
house them in  Alaska. She stated the  cost between Colorado                                                                    
and Alaska had been pretty comparable at that time.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:43:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  relayed that  his office  had been                                                                    
tracking what he viewed to  be a positive development on the                                                                    
competency and  commitment reform front. He  elaborated that                                                                    
DOC  had  elected  to  take 10  individuals  that  would  be                                                                    
screened for  their competency to  stand trial.  He wondered                                                                    
whether the costs were factored  into a budget component. He                                                                    
understood it was a physically separate area.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman  believed  Representative  Josephson                                                                    
was talking about  a partnership between DOC  and the Alaska                                                                    
Psychiatric   Institute   (API)   related   to   restorative                                                                    
competency for  standing trial. She  could not speak  to the                                                                    
separate cost and how the  agreement worked. She deferred to                                                                    
a colleague to address the funding component.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:44:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TRAVIS WELCH, DIRECTOR,  HEALTH AND REHABILITATION SERVICES,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT  OF  CORRECTIONS (via  teleconference),  answered                                                                    
that the department would have  to follow up in writing. The                                                                    
partnership was in the beginning  stages of the project with                                                                    
API in terms of the jail-based restoration component.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  stated he  was also  interested in                                                                    
whether  the program  required  any  additional training  or                                                                    
certification.  Separately,  he  asked  what  percentage  of                                                                    
inmate deaths  were a result  of suicide. He asked  what the                                                                    
department proposed to do to mitigate the deaths.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:46:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson turned  to slide  14  reviewed the  remaining                                                                    
major operating budget changes in  FY 25. The first item was                                                                    
for pretrial  services associated  with the increase  in the                                                                    
usage  by  the  courts   of  placing  individuals  into  the                                                                    
community on  pretrial supervision. The costs  had increased                                                                    
over  the past  several years  and the  department had  been                                                                    
able to absorb  them until the FY 22 and  FY 23 budgets when                                                                    
DOC  began requesting  a  supplemental.  The department  had                                                                    
expected  that once  the courts  returned to  full operation                                                                    
there  would  be a  decline  in  the number  of  individuals                                                                    
placed in the program; however,  that had not been the case.                                                                    
Subsequently,  DOC was  requesting funding  to increase  the                                                                    
budget to accommodate the cost.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson moved  to the  second item  on slide  14. She                                                                    
detailed that $3  million of the $5.7  million increment for                                                                    
CRCs  (halfway  houses)  was associated  with  an  increased                                                                    
contract with  the Juneau halfway  house. The  remainder was                                                                    
associated with  the utilization. She noted  there were five                                                                    
other  contracts  up   for  renegotiations  currently  under                                                                    
review. The  contract term ended  May 31 and  the department                                                                    
was  hoping to  realign its  contracts to  a more  equitable                                                                    
funding; however,  DOC was uncertain  what to expect  due to                                                                    
the  substantial  increase  in   the  Juneau  contract.  The                                                                    
department had  increased its utilization  of CRCs  and over                                                                    
400 individuals were currently placed in halfway houses.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson moved  to the  third  item on  slide 14.  The                                                                    
request   pertained  to   healthcare   cost  increases   and                                                                    
reflected  50   percent  of  the  reduction   taken  by  the                                                                    
department  in  FY 24.  The  department  was requesting  the                                                                    
amount [of $3.75 million] to  be returned to the base budget                                                                    
due to  increased healthcare costs.  She detailed  that some                                                                    
of the contracts had increased  substantially, and some were                                                                    
30 to  50 percent  less. The department  was unable  to meet                                                                    
the full decrement it took in the FY 24 budget.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:48:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Coulombe  asked if Ms. Wilkerson  stated that                                                                    
the healthcare cost was reduced in FY 24.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson  agreed. She  explained that  DOC took  a $7.5                                                                    
million reduction  in Health and Rehabilitation  Services in                                                                    
FY 24.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Coulombe asked  if  the  reduction had  come                                                                    
from the  legislature, the executive  branch, or  a proposal                                                                    
by the department.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms.   Wilkerson  responded   that  DOC   had  proposed   the                                                                    
reduction. The  department felt that based  on several items                                                                    
it  put  into  place   including  the  340B  pharmaceuticals                                                                    
pricing  program  and  implementation of  dialysis  that  it                                                                    
could take  the decrement. However,  it did not turn  out to                                                                    
be the case  moving into FY 25 and the  department could not                                                                    
meet the entire decrement.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Coulombe stated  that  she did  not know  of                                                                    
anyone  who would  project a  decrease  in their  healthcare                                                                    
costs.  She had  been  surprised the  department thought  it                                                                    
could happen. She asked if  the increased cost under the CRC                                                                    
increment [slide 14] was related to Juneau.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson answered  that $3 million of  the $5.7 million                                                                    
was for the Juneau contract.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Coulombe asked if it was a halfway house.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson responded affirmatively.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Coulombe  asked  about the  reason  for  the                                                                    
increase.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson replied that the  contracts lasted for a five-                                                                    
year period. The  department did not allow  the reopening of                                                                    
the  contracts  to  negotiate  for  inflation  to  meet  the                                                                    
increased cost of food or  other items. The current increase                                                                    
was a result of that with built in inflation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:51:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Stapp  asked how  many people  were currently                                                                    
in Alaska prisons for life sentences.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson would follow up with the information.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Edgmon   recalled  from   his  time  as   the  DOC                                                                    
subcommittee chair that it was  a relatively small number in                                                                    
terms of the overall population of around 6,000 inmates.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson agreed  with the  statement made  by Co-Chair                                                                    
Edgmon.  She  moved to  the  request  pertaining to  medical                                                                    
testing  for   and  travel  cost  related   to  testing  for                                                                    
correctional and  probation officers [slide 14]  as required                                                                    
by the  Alaska Police Standards Council.  The department was                                                                    
looking  at   deferring  individuals  with   prior  military                                                                    
service to  the Veterans Administration (VA)  clinic for the                                                                    
testing.  The department  had been  in contact  with the  VA                                                                    
clinic,  which  was  willing  to  take  on  the  applicants.                                                                    
Additionally, the  department had renegotiated  its contract                                                                    
to allow for individuals out of  state to not require use of                                                                    
the  contractor.  The  department would  coordinate  out  of                                                                    
state  medical  with  individuals'   local  provider  or  VA                                                                    
clinic.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson  addressed the  last  bullet  point shown  on                                                                    
slide 14.  The item  reflected the department's  increase in                                                                    
utilization  of the  electronic  monitoring (EM)  component.                                                                    
The department was  placing more individuals out  on EM, and                                                                    
it saw an increase in FY  24. She shared that in July [2023]                                                                    
there were  207 on sentenced EM  and as of January  2024 the                                                                    
number increased to 238.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:53:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Coulombe  remarked that the same  request had                                                                    
been included in the supplemental  the previous year for 221                                                                    
individuals.  She recalled  there  had  been an  operational                                                                    
change  and the  department  had not  anticipated having  so                                                                    
many people  on EM. She  wondered if the  operational change                                                                    
had occurred. She  asked why the number  was increasing when                                                                    
the  previous   year  DOC   anticipated  the   number  would                                                                    
decrease.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  responded that the  conversation the                                                                    
previous year pertained to individuals  on EM under pretrial                                                                    
supervision.   She  elaborated   that  the   department  had                                                                    
anticipated   the  courts   would  open   fully  and   begin                                                                    
sentencing individuals,  meaning they would no  longer be on                                                                    
EM; however,  that had not  been the case and  the situation                                                                    
had  been  continuing.  She referred  back  to  her  earlier                                                                    
statement   about  there   being  a   perfect  storm   where                                                                    
individuals were not  taking up a hard bed and  were left on                                                                    
EM for  a significantly  longer time;  however, there  was a                                                                    
fee associated. She noted it  separate from the rising costs                                                                    
associated  with the  use EM  (instead  of a  jail bed)  for                                                                    
sentenced individuals.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Coulombe  asked if  the increment was  in the                                                                    
base budget.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson  responded that the department  was requesting                                                                    
to add the amount to the base.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson moved  to slide  15 and  continued to  review                                                                    
fund  source changes  in the  FY 25  budget. The  item would                                                                    
replace  $12.5 million  of  restorative  justice funds  with                                                                    
general  funds   associated  with   the  reduction   in  the                                                                    
Permanent   Fund   Dividend   (PFD)  criminal   funds.   She                                                                    
elaborated that  $6.8 million of the  amount was decremented                                                                    
throughout  the  13  institutions   and  $5.68  million  was                                                                    
decremented  and  replaced  with general  funds  within  the                                                                    
physical  healthcare component.  The  change  would leave  a                                                                    
balance of  about $7.8 million of  restorative justice funds                                                                    
within the physical healthcare component.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Johnson  asked if  it was because  the PFD  went up                                                                    
and  down each  year, but  it  always remained  the same  or                                                                    
increased in the budget.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman agreed.  She  detailed  that as  the                                                                    
amount and the number  of individuals deemed ineligible [for                                                                    
a PFD] fluctuated, the amount  available for allocation also                                                                    
changed.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Foster  stated that the  previous year the  PFD was                                                                    
around $3,500. He assumed the  item was reflecting a smaller                                                                    
PFD. He asked what [PFD] number had been used.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilkerson   responded  there   was  a   memorandum  and                                                                    
allocation sheet  generated by  the Permanent  Fund Dividend                                                                    
Division through the Office of  Management and Budget (OMB).                                                                    
She  would provide  the information  to  the committee.  She                                                                    
relayed  that they  were  two years  behind  in the  budget;                                                                    
therefore, the item  would be based on the  $1,600 or $1,300                                                                    
amount.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:57:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hannan asked  about healthcare cost increases                                                                    
on  slide 14  related  to a  dialysis  unit. She  understood                                                                    
healthcare  cost  savings had  not  been  achieved in  other                                                                    
areas. She asked  if the department had been  able to reduce                                                                    
costs  of care  in the  dialysis  unit. She  asked how  many                                                                    
other  locations there  were where  inmates  had to  receive                                                                    
outside dialysis.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson  answered that  she did  not have  the numbers                                                                    
and would follow up in writing.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman addressed  goals  and objectives  on                                                                    
slide 16. She shared her  three primary goals beginning with                                                                    
the health and  wellbeing of staff. She relayed  that if she                                                                    
could get  trained staff, it  would be easier to  budget and                                                                    
easier to take care of  individuals in the department's care                                                                    
and custody.  The second  goal was for  those in  DOC's care                                                                    
and custody  to leave  better than  they came.  She realized                                                                    
the state was safer because  some of the individuals were in                                                                    
DOC's custody;  however, the bulk  of the  individuals would                                                                    
get out  of prison and DOC  wanted them to be  healthier, so                                                                    
they did  not return. The  last goal was trying  to identify                                                                    
efficiencies and  resources within  DOC's system  and giving                                                                    
individuals  tools to  use on  the outside  so they  did not                                                                    
return.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner   Winkelman   ended   the   presentation   with                                                                    
discussion on inmate  deaths. She stated that  in 2022 there                                                                    
had been  a record  number of deaths  of 18  individuals. In                                                                    
2023,  the number  had decreased  to 10  individuals and  10                                                                    
percent were suicides.  There had been four  deaths in 2024,                                                                    
which was a huge number.  She assured committee members that                                                                    
the four deaths were  completely different circumstances and                                                                    
happened  at all  different  facilities  and hospitals.  She                                                                    
relayed that  the department  dealt with  critical incidents                                                                    
within   its   facilities   with   equal   importance.   She                                                                    
underscored that  her team spent countless  hours every time                                                                    
a  critical  incident  occurred.  She  noted  that  critical                                                                    
incidents   included  deaths   and  other   situations.  The                                                                    
department worked  with the individuals  in its  care day-in                                                                    
and  day-out with  correctional officers  standing guard  12                                                                    
hours per day. She noted  they were someone's son, daughter,                                                                    
and  friend. She  elaborated that  guards spend  substantial                                                                    
time doing CPR while  waiting for emergency medical services                                                                    
to show  up. She emphasized that  it was a very  heavy topic                                                                    
for  DOC and  it  was  working hard  on  the  back end.  She                                                                    
expounded  that an  internal investigative  review team  was                                                                    
dispatched out  for every incident that  occurred. The teams                                                                    
reported  to the  executive team  on  any improvements  that                                                                    
could  be   made.  She  assured   the  committee   that  the                                                                    
department wanted to  be the best it could be  and take care                                                                    
of individuals the best it could.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner   Winkelman   relayed   that  thanks   to   the                                                                    
legislature  the department  was  assigned  a Department  of                                                                    
Public  Safety  investigator. Additionally,  the  department                                                                    
had  a  medical  examiner.  She  stated  that  unfortunately                                                                    
because DOC  was an extension  of a medical facility  it was                                                                    
bound    by   the    Health   Insurance    Portability   and                                                                    
Accountability Act  (HIPAA), meaning there were  things that                                                                    
could  not  be shared  related  to  personnel and  potential                                                                    
ongoing litigation. She stated  there were pieces she wanted                                                                    
to be able  to talk about to the legislature  but was unable                                                                    
to  do  so.  She  stated,  "We become  sort  of  that  small                                                                    
community of what's  out in the community."  She assured the                                                                    
committee it impacted everyone at DOC every day.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner   Winkelman   communicated  that   DOC   posted                                                                    
aggregate data on deaths at the  end of the year. She stated                                                                    
that if the  department was fortunate enough to  only have a                                                                    
couple of deaths and the  suicide number changed, the public                                                                    
could know the  last death was a suicide;  therefore, out of                                                                    
protection  of the  family, the  information  was not  given                                                                    
out.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman highlighted  that the department also                                                                    
had  saves every  day.  She stated  there  were really  good                                                                    
things happening and sometimes  it was not quantifiable. She                                                                    
elaborated that an example included  a conversation that may                                                                    
have  changed  the  direction  an   inmate  was  going.  She                                                                    
stressed the  topics were heavy on  a daily basis at  a time                                                                    
when DOC  was trying to  figure out budget  efficiencies and                                                                    
to  put things  into place  to  help some  of the  unhealthy                                                                    
mental  and  physical  state  of inmates  in  its  care  and                                                                    
custody. The  department was working hard  with Project 2025                                                                    
to reduce suicides within its  facilities by 20 percent. She                                                                    
remarked that she  would like to think DOC met  that goal in                                                                    
the first year  by going down to 10  percent. The department                                                                    
was  partnering with  the  American  Foundation for  Suicide                                                                    
Prevention to  identify gaps in  the system.  The department                                                                    
was  constantly  talking  about  installing  jump  barriers,                                                                    
larger windows  in certain doors, and  things recommended to                                                                    
better  care  for  the  population.   She  shared  that  the                                                                    
department had  a pilot project  working on tablets  and she                                                                    
hoped  to  potentially  provide  telehealth  and  additional                                                                    
education opportunities  for the prison population  to drive                                                                    
down cost and some of  the unhealthy thoughts that may exist                                                                    
with  the  population.  She  lauded  her  staff  who  worked                                                                    
tirelessly on the topics daily.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:04:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Johnson  asked for the recidivism  rate and whether                                                                    
it was trending up or down.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman  answered that  she did not  have the                                                                    
number on hand, but it  was trending down very slightly. She                                                                    
explained  that by  statute recidivism  rates were  compared                                                                    
every  three years;  therefore,  the  slight downward  trend                                                                    
compared current numbers  to the rate three years  ago.  She                                                                    
relayed that where  the number landed would  be something to                                                                    
be watching going forward. She  stated it was a challenge to                                                                    
compare  to  other states  when  there  were certain  crimes                                                                    
considered such  as probation or parole  violations that may                                                                    
not be  considered in  a recidivism  rate in  another state.                                                                    
She  stated recidivism  was tricky  because she  saw success                                                                    
sometimes  when an  individual returning  to the  system did                                                                    
not create a new victim.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Johnson  asked  for  status  on  the  Lemon  Creek                                                                    
Facility [in Juneau].                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilkerson responded that the  contract had been awarded.                                                                    
She  relayed  that  the  department  was  working  with  the                                                                    
Department  of Transportation  and Public  Facilities (DOT);                                                                    
construction had not  yet started, and DOC  was expecting it                                                                    
to  start likely  by the  end of  March. The  department had                                                                    
already identified it  was short on funding and  it would be                                                                    
seeking some  additional funding  to continue the  work. She                                                                    
relayed that DOT and the  contractor were working diligently                                                                    
to try to ensure the  floor could be salvaged. She explained                                                                    
that the floor  had in-floor heating and  settling of almost                                                                    
two  inches  had occurred,  meaning  the  floor may  not  be                                                                    
salvageable. There had  been a delay in the  contract due to                                                                    
additional  settling  occurring  on  the west  side  of  the                                                                    
building. In response, DOC brought  the contractors in to do                                                                    
more ground  penetrating radar  to ensure  all of  the areas                                                                    
and  issues  had  been  identified  prior  to  awarding  the                                                                    
contract. The department  currently expected construction to                                                                    
be completed by the end  of the calendar year with occupancy                                                                    
within three months following completion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:08:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Edgmon  remarked that  questions on  trend analysis                                                                    
had been  asked every  year he had  been in  the legislature                                                                    
and the  analysis was  very difficult  to do.  He referenced                                                                    
broader  demographics, homelessness,  and crime  statistics.                                                                    
He  referenced Representative  Josephson's broader  question                                                                    
about the  number of deaths  that had occurred. He  asked if                                                                    
there was  more or less  a profile of  a person who  dies in                                                                    
prison such as an older  inmate in for misdemeanor offences.                                                                    
He  considered minority  status  and other  things. He  knew                                                                    
Commissioner  Winkelman had  personally invested  herself in                                                                    
the issue and he commended her  for it. He thought it seemed                                                                    
there  was a  certain profile  of an  inmate that  dies that                                                                    
could be provided.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman answered  that the  department could                                                                    
break  down  some numbers  and  provide  information to  the                                                                    
committee.  She  stated there  had  not  necessarily been  a                                                                    
rhyme or reason  in terms of deaths. The  deaths happened at                                                                    
different  facilities, different  times of  the day,  and to                                                                    
individuals  of varying  ethnicities. Her  goal had  been to                                                                    
identify exactly  what was going  on; however, that  had not                                                                    
been the  case. She  shared that  nearly 30,000  people came                                                                    
through DOC's  doors annually. She  referenced an  aging and                                                                    
unhealthy  population  and  noted   that  even  the  younger                                                                    
inmates under the age of  30 should not have chronic medical                                                                    
conditions;  however, compounded  years  of substance  abuse                                                                    
resulted in in deteriorated  health beyond a person's years.                                                                    
She offered to  follow up with a more  detailed breakdown of                                                                    
where  there  was not  a  lot  of  rhyme  or reason  to  the                                                                    
population  and  how it  involved  different  times of  day,                                                                    
different  genders, and  different  reasons. The  department                                                                    
had devoted time  to try to target where  deaths were taking                                                                    
place. She relayed that 50  percent of the natural deaths in                                                                    
2023  were end  of life  care.  She detailed  there were  10                                                                    
deaths in  2023, eight  of those were  natural, and  four of                                                                    
those  were end  of  life care.  Additionally,  there was  a                                                                    
small group  of individuals who were  spending a substantial                                                                    
portion of their lives in  custody and were receiving end of                                                                    
life  care similar  to hospice  in the  DOC facilities.  She                                                                    
added there was an increasing dementia population as well.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:13:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stapp   appreciated  the   presentation  and                                                                    
thanked the department.  He noted that he had  not heard any                                                                    
cost  containment  or  cost   reduction  strategies  in  the                                                                    
presentation. He highlighted the  growth of the department's                                                                    
budget since  2019. He hoped  DOC would explore some  of the                                                                    
measures and  look at best  practices. He  discussed hearing                                                                    
from  educators  and parents  that  music  and after  sports                                                                    
programs were  being cut and constituents  wondering why the                                                                    
legislature  did not  deliver a  statutory PFD.  He did  not                                                                    
want  to  tell  them  sorry,  but the  state  had  to  spend                                                                    
$100,000 per  year jailing  a person  who dealt  fentanyl to                                                                    
kids  resulting  in many  of  their  deaths. He  wanted  the                                                                    
department  to help  the legislature  find  ways to  contain                                                                    
costs and control  measures so that he did not  have to tell                                                                    
constituents the state  "spent all of this  money on housing                                                                    
a fentanyl dealer."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:14:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Galvin thanked  the presenters. She discussed                                                                    
cost  containment  items  she  thought  the  department  may                                                                    
already  be doing.  She  had heard  from  "the justice"  the                                                                    
other day that  the state was doing less  with travel, which                                                                    
was a  very expensive piece  of the work according  to staff                                                                    
at  the  Court  System.  She asked  if  the  department  had                                                                    
considered site  care and other  things done  virtually. She                                                                    
thought it  was the  time to work  on recidivism,  the death                                                                    
count,  and  addiction.   She  thought  delivering  services                                                                    
virtually  was a  great way  to contain  costs and  meet the                                                                    
department's mission to  provide confinement and reformative                                                                    
programs,   and   a    process   of   supervised   community                                                                    
reintegration to enhance safety  of the state's communities.                                                                    
She  remarked  she had  been  unable  to find  the  specific                                                                    
mission in  the constitution,  but she thought  whatever DOC                                                                    
had done to it was great. She  thought it was a great way to                                                                    
reach the goals of the department and legislature.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner   Winkelman   appreciated   the   comments   by                                                                    
Representative Galvin and  responded to Representative Stapp                                                                    
that  his point  was definitely  taken. Measures  were being                                                                    
taken  and the  department  would make  a  better effort  at                                                                    
providing  them in  the future.  The department  was working                                                                    
with the  Alaska Court  System on  enabling inmates  to have                                                                    
the ability  to attend court  hearings no matter  where they                                                                    
were located  in the state. She  believed virtual attendance                                                                    
was what  Representative Galvin may  be referring  to, which                                                                    
would provide less transportation  and lessen security risk.                                                                    
The department  was getting a  pilot program going  in order                                                                    
to  utilize tablets  in its  facilities. In  the future,  if                                                                    
legislation  passed,  the  department could  look  at  using                                                                    
measures such as telehealth.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:17:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hannan   requested  a   breakdown   showing                                                                    
sentenced versus unsentenced in  the inmate death statistics                                                                    
the department would provide.  She thought legislators often                                                                    
heard more about the unsentenced  versus natural causes in a                                                                    
long-term  inmate.  She  appreciated  the  cost  containment                                                                    
efforts such  as the  dialysis unit where  over a  period of                                                                    
years DOC knew its population  was frequently hepatitis B or                                                                    
C positive.  She understood it  was not a silver  bullet and                                                                    
whether  the  one  element  could  be  contained,  care  for                                                                    
inmates  was  still  very  expensive.  She  appreciated  the                                                                    
follow up  by the  department communicating  that healthcare                                                                    
costs had not been contained as much as it anticipated.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Coulombe looked  at slide  16 showing  goals                                                                    
and  objectives. She  asked if  the department  had specific                                                                    
measurements  when  looking  at goals  and  objectives.  For                                                                    
example, she  wondered how the department  was measuring the                                                                    
health and wellbeing of staff.  She thought it seemed pretty                                                                    
broad.  She  thought it  was  important,  especially in  the                                                                    
department's  line   of  work   and  especially   given  the                                                                    
discussion earlier in  the meeting about how it  was hard to                                                                    
compare recidivism.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Winkelman agreed that  the goals and objectives                                                                    
were broad.  She stated  that in her  opinion, if  she could                                                                    
get  her  vacancies  filled  and  there  were  fewer  people                                                                    
leaving  for reasons  other  than  retirement, it  indicated                                                                    
staff needs  were being met.  She noted that  overtime rates                                                                    
and budget  would decrease  as a  result. She  addressed the                                                                    
second  goal on  slide 16  for inmates  to leave  the system                                                                    
better  off than  when they  entered the  system. She  could                                                                    
provide  specifics with  regard to  measuring the  idea that                                                                    
people were coming out with  a certification or some sort of                                                                    
education  or  vocational  training,  GED,  or  professional                                                                    
licensing program  such as  barbershop. She  emphasized that                                                                    
the department  could always do  better. She thought  it was                                                                    
indicative of getting  down to what caused a  person to come                                                                    
back.  She stated  that the  department could  give lots  of                                                                    
certificates  and   things,  but  if  it   was  not  helping                                                                    
individuals on the outside and  they were winding up back in                                                                    
custody, it was perhaps not  the right measurement tool. The                                                                    
department  tracked the  number  of  individuals in  certain                                                                    
programming, whether  they were completing it,  whether they                                                                    
were coming  back, and whether  they were utilizing  it when                                                                    
they leave.  She reported that  only 25 percent  getting out                                                                    
of custody went on to  probation or parole, while 75 percent                                                                    
were   released.  She   explained   that   whether  or   not                                                                    
programming  was successful  during a  person's custody  was                                                                    
only based on whether they returned to custody or not.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Coulombe  suggested   that   the  goal   or                                                                    
objectives  needed  to  be   measurable.  For  example,  the                                                                    
department  could   track  the  number  of   people  getting                                                                    
certificates  and the  number of  correctional officers  who                                                                    
stayed longer  than three years. She  noted that legislators                                                                    
were only looking at the  department's budget once a year to                                                                    
determine  whether   what  the  department  was   doing  was                                                                    
working. She  reasoned that a  goal that was  not measurable                                                                    
made it  difficult for the legislature  to determine whether                                                                    
to continue funding something. She thanked the department.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Winkelman answered  that she  had thought  she                                                                    
would like  to change  the title  to guiding  principles and                                                                    
within  the  principles there  would  be  specific goals  to                                                                    
reduce recidivism by a given  amount and have a given number                                                                    
of inmates  graduate from "x"  program. She  appreciated the                                                                    
comments.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Johnson thanked the presenters.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB  268  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HB  270  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Johnson reviewed  the schedule  for the  following                                                                    
day.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HFIN - DOC FY2025 BUDGET Overview 2.12.24.pdf HFIN 2/12/2024 1:30:00 PM
HB 268
HB 270
DOC Overview Response to Q HFIN 2.12.24.pdf HFIN 2/12/2024 1:30:00 PM
HB 268