Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124
02/01/2018 01:00 PM House TRANSPORTATION
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB259 | |
| HB263 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 263 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| *+ | HB 259 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 263-TRANSPORTATION SERVICES FOR HUNTERS
2:34:49 PM
CO-CHAIR WOOL announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 263, "An Act exempting certain water taxi
operators from regulation as transportation services by the Big
Game Commercial Services Board; and providing for an effective
date."
2:35:26 PM
JAYME JONES, Staff, Representative Gary Knopp, Alaska State
Legislature, paraphrased from a prepared sponsor statement,
which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
AS 08.54.790 exempts certain air taxis' from having to
obtain a transporter permit from Alaska Department of
commerce, community, and economic development if;
carrying big game hunters is only an incidental
portion of their business; if they do not charge more
than the usual tariff or charter rate and do not
advertise transportation services or big game hunting
services to the public.
[House Bill] 263 would add licensed water taxis',
meeting the current stipulations of air taxis', to
this exemption. According to big game commercial
services, in the 2017 calendar year only nine
transporter permits were issued statewide by DCCED. To
operate as a water taxi, you must also comply with the
Untied [sic] States Coast Guard and all other state
licensing regulations.
This exemption would allow individuals to travel to
the hunting grounds by their choice of water or air
taxi. Currently water taxi operators incur additional
burden and expense of obtaining another permit that is
not required by the exempt air taxi operators. The
inclusion of the water taxi operators levels the
playing field for both means of transportation
providing "incidental" services to hunters.
2:37:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARY KNOPP, Alaska State Legislature, prime
sponsor of HB 263, stated that the legislators know there are no
simple bills, and although some have expressed concerns, he has
found substantial support for the bill. He said that this bill
addresses an issue of equality for water taxi operators. An
exemption in statute already existed for air taxi operators and
this bill, HB 263, would expand that exemption to water taxi
operators.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP reported that these statutes were amended
about 10 years ago. He has spoken to some prior Big Game
Commercial Services Board (BGCSB) members about water taxi
operators and they advised him that the topic of water taxis did
not arise. He introduced the bill at the request of a water
taxi operator, after reviewing the statutes pertaining to air
taxis, he said.
2:39:27 PM
CO-CHAIR STUTES stated that she has received several concerns.
She related her understanding that with an air taxi service, the
plane flies in, drops off hunters, and flies out. She has heard
concern expressed that water taxi services bring in hunters,
drop them off, then the plane stays in the area, and the pilot
could conceivably scout around and/or move hunters, effectively
providing guiding services without a license.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP responded by saying that currently a water
taxi operator with transporter permits could violate guiding
laws. He characterized the water taxi services as incidental to
the operators' business. He acknowledged that anything is
possible, but he did not think it was too big of an issue.
Currently, only 140 transporter licenses are issued in the
state; however, the department was unable to distinguish between
transporters using airplanes and those using other types of
vehicles. He anticipated that this bill was likely to affect
Southeast Alaska, Kodiak, and perhaps Southcentral Alaska.
Currently, the Alaska Marine Highway System (AMHS) transports
many hunters to areas such as Kodiak. He reiterated that the
type of activity Representative Stutes mentioned was outside the
rules.
2:42:46 PM
CO-CHAIR STUTES acknowledged that some of the concern expressed
pertained to black bear populations in Southeast Alaska that
could be directly impacted by hunters, who could easily move to
the game with access to air taxis. She remarked that reduced
state funding translates into [little or] no enforcement.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP reiterated that the Chair of the Alaska
Board of Game (BOG) [Ted Spraker], among others he contacted,
did not anticipate any increased hunting pressure. He recalled
that in recent years the bag limit for black bears was five,
although it may recently have been reduced to three bears per
calendar year. He offered his belief that water taxi operators
would self-regulate in terms of numbers of hunters. Thus, he
did not anticipate this change would result in any additional
hunting pressure. He reiterated that [Mr. Spraker, Chair, Board
of Game] said the board could use permits or other means to
limit over harvesting.
2:44:35 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN, referring to page 2 [lines 5-14, to AS
08.54.790(12)(B), sub-subparagraph's (i) and (ii)] of HB 163,
which outline the two prohibitions for water taxi operators in
the bill. Sub-subparagraph (ii) would prohibit the water taxi
operator from advertising, for big game services, which relates
to Representative Stute's concern. Second, sub-subparagraph
(ii) does not allow the water taxi operator to advertise
transportation services. He related that in his experience he
has never seen a service that did not advertise their
transportation services. He offered his belief that would seem
to disqualify all water taxi operators.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP recalled that at the time the existing law
was written, the legislature provided this exemption to
recognize some air carriers transported equipment. He offered
his belief that the legislature did not "cross the lines"
between those who take a larger percentage of their business
from transporter services without being guide-outfitters. The
exemption states that [an air taxi] service cannot advertise as
a transporter or charge a premium, but the key was that these
services were "incidental" to their businesses.
2:46:57 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN said he might be misreading the statute;
however, it seemed that if a transportation business advertises
that it provides transportation services in Prince William
Sound, the water taxi operator would be exempted from the
statute and not be able to provide services to hunters since the
operator advertises transportation services. He said he
understood why advertising big game services would exclude air
and water taxi operators from transporting hunters; however, he
did not understand why transportation services would exclude
them.
2:48:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP, referring to sub-subparagraph (ii), on
page 2, line 9-11, of HB 263, directed attention to the
definition of "advertise," which read [original punctuation
provided]:
... "advertise" means soliciting big game hunters to
be customers of an air taxi operator, [OR] air
carrier, or water taxi operator for the purpose of
providing air or water transportation to, from, or in
the field.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP said he interpreted this to mean that the
water taxi operator can advertise as a transporter but may not
specifically target the hunting industry.
2:48:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP agreed with Representative Knopp, that the
section relates to soliciting big game hunters.
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN said he thinks that his concern was
misplaced.
2:48:54 PM
CO-CHAIR WOOL related his understanding that this language would
exempt the water taxi from regulation as transportation
services. He asked the reason to exempt them and whether there
is any distinction between transporting a kayaker from
transporting a hunter from point A to point B since water taxi
operators currently follow these [statutes].
2:49:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP responded that the exemption currently does
not apply to water taxis, only to air carriers. Currently,
anyone running a boat for hire for any purpose cannot drop off
hunters with hunting gear, no matter how incidental the service
might be. He said this came to his attention when a water taxi
operator got into trouble for transporting a frequent customer.
The water taxi operators could not provide hunting services to a
loyal customer. The water taxi operators were concerned about
sending his/her client to another water taxi, which could
potentially erode his/her client base.
2:50:40 PM
CO-CHAIR STUTES asked the reason current water taxi operators
would be opposed to this.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP answered that a licensed taxi operator who
also had a transporter permit was concerned because it would add
some additional competition. Another water taxi operator who
previously had a transporter license also had an issue, but he
could not recall the reason that water taxi operator was
opposed.
2:52:11 PM
MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director, Resident Hunters of Alaska
(RHAK), Fairbanks, Alaska, stated that he also served on the
Transporter's Committee of the Big Game Commercial Services
Board (BGCSB). He said that RHAK wants all hunters to have
equal access to the field by commercially licensed and insured
carriers, whether by air taxi operators or water.
MR. RICHARDS emphasized that this bill would grant the same
exemption to water taxi operators as it does to air taxi
operators, who are licensed and regulated by the Federal
Aviation Administration (FAA). It would only apply to the
carriage of hunters as an incidental part of a water taxi
operator business. He pointed out that "incidental" is key in
the definitions AS 08.54.790.
2:55:33 PM
MR. RICHARDS, paraphrased from the [RHAK] letter of January 27,
2018, which read, in part, as follows [original punctuation
provided]:
The FAA licenses and regulates air-taxis, and the
Coast Guard licenses and regulates watertaxis (sic). A
Part 135 air-taxi that operates under the current
exemptions to provide transportation services to big
game hunters without holding a transporter license is
no more or less qualified, or less safe, than flying
with an air-taxi that holds a transporter license. The
same would be true for water-taxis with the same
exemption.
2:53:55 PM
MR. RICHARDS said that the RHAK does not believe the state
should have been involved in the transportation services
industry, to further regulate air and water carriers who
transport one certain class of clientele. He asked why the
legislature would ever tell a business what it can charge,
whether it can advertise, and what type of clientele it can
accept. In fact, that is what the AS 08 statutes do, which
negatively affect resident hunters. Any opposition to this bill
as it relates to hunter crowding and overharvest concerns is
under the sole authority of the Alaska Board of Game (BOG) to
address. He pointed out it is currently illegal to direct
hunters to animals or to help butcher or transport an animal.
He said the RHAK hopes many aspects of AS 08 will be removed as
this bill moves forward. He thanked members for their time.
2:56:25 PM
JANEY MCCULLOUGH, Director, Division of Corporations, Business,
and Professional Licensing, Department of Commerce, Community &
Economic Development (DCCED), introduced herself.
2:56:16 PM
CO-CHAIR WOOL prefaced his question, noting he does not use
water taxi services or hunt big game. He asked for
clarification on terminology. He asked whether there was a
distinction between regulations governing water taxi operators
transporting him for camping, recreation, or big game hunting if
he decided to use a water taxi operator to do so.
MS. MCCULLOUGH deferred to Henry Tiffany, Chair, Big Game
Commercial Services Board (BGCSB) to answer technical questions.
Since he was not available, and although said she is not an
expert, she offered her belief that an air taxi or water taxi
operator would need to have a transporter's license if the
operator transports hunters.
2:57:35 PM
CO-CHAIR WOOL asked whether a transporter's license is different
than a license a water taxi operator would need.
MS. MCCULLOUGH answered that the division does not regulate
water taxi operators, which are under the jurisdiction of the US
Coast Guard.
CO-CHAIR WOOL directed the question to Representative Knopp.
REPRESENTATIVE KNOPP said during the discussion for this bill,
that some believe the transporter licensure is not necessary.
He recalled back in the 80s that transporter licensure was
instituted when many nonresident hunters who thought they were
booking guide services were simply dropped off by air carriers.
Since clients were confused about the type of services being
provided, the BGCSB established transporter licenses to
differentiate between big game guide-outfitter services and air
taxi transportation services.
[HB 263 was held over.]
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB263 Sponsor Statement 1.22.18.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 263 |
| HB263 ver A 1.22.18.PDF |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 263 |
| HB263 Fiscal Note DFG DWC 1.26.18.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 263 |
| HB263 Fiscal Note DCCED CPBL 1.30.18.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 263 |
| HB263 Support 2.1.18.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 263 |
| HB263 Opposition 2.1.18.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 263 |
| HB259 ver T Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 259 |
| HB259 ver T Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 259 |
| HB259 ver T.PDF |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 259 |
| HB259 Additional Document-Leg. Research Report.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 259 |
| HB259-Supporting Document-Governor's Proclamation-Secure Your Load Day.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 259 |
| HB259-Supporting Document-Municipality of Anchorage Proclamation.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 259 |
| HB259-Supporting Document-Unsecured Load Incident Articles.pdf |
HTRA 2/1/2018 1:00:00 PM |
HB 259 |