Legislature(2023 - 2024)DAVIS 106
02/08/2024 03:00 PM House HEALTH & SOCIAL SERVICES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing(s): | |
| HB258 | |
| HB264 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| *+ | HB 258 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 264 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
HB 258-GENERAL RELIEF & BURIAL ASSISTANCE
3:43:55 PM
CHAIR PRAX announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 258, "An Act relating to general relief and
burial assistance; and providing for an effective date."
3:44:29 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WILL STAPP, Alaska State Legislature, described
HB 258 as a bill that would consider burial assistance as well
as repealing a couple of program items. This is one of the
bills which would address issues of processing time within the
Department of Health, Division of Public Assistance. It is
being proposed for the purposes of efficiency and results-based
budgeting. When he looked at this program, he did not find that
the level of spending and administrative time needed to
administer these aspects of the program, in a results-based
system, was an efficient use of state funds. He considered the
bill not from the perspective of what it does, but rather how
effective the state is at delivering services to the folks the
state says it wants to help. He explained that this delivery
system is incredibly inefficient, and it is hard to justify a
statewide program when there are only three to five people per
month using the benefit.
3:47:21 PM
HONOUR MILLER-AUSTIN, Staff, Representative Will Stapp, Alaska
State Legislature, on behalf of Representative Stapp, prime
sponsor presented the sectional analysis for HB 258. She
explained that Sections 1-5 add "and burial" to the assistance
programs referenced in statute. Section 6(a) deletes the
inclusion of shelter, utilities, hospitalization, nursing, and
convalescent care for financial assistance. Section 6(b) adds
funeral and burial expenses into statute. Section 7 adds "and
burial" to eligible assistance programs. Section 8 gives an
effective date of January 1, 2025.
3:48:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STAPP explained that people were available both
online and in the room to answer committee members' questions.
3:48:34 PM
CHAIR PRAX opened public testimony on HB 258. After
ascertaining there was no one who wished to testify, he closed
public testimony on HB 258.
3:49:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS said he had questions for Ms. Etheridge,
Director, Division of Public Assistance.
3:49:47 PM
DEB ETHERIDGE, Director, Division of Public Assistance,
Department of Health, answered questions posed by members of the
committee regarding HB 258.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked about the comparative percentages of
rental relief relative to burial relief which went from 12
percent in fiscal year 2020 (FY 20) to 2.7 percent in FY 23 and
FY24 and why those changes occurred.
MS. ETHERIDGE explained that there was a small decline in
utilization this year because there is a slight backlog in
general relief applications. However, year over year, an
individual must have a fairly low income in order to qualify and
each month they must apply for the benefit. Generally, the
division has not seen an increase in utilization for rent or
utilities.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS requested additional information about the
backlog, specifically who is applying, whether they are non-
profits applying in partnership with people, how long it takes,
and what kind of shelter they are looking for.
MS. ETHERIDGE explained that an individual applies for the
shelter and utility costs on their own behalf, generally. A
majority of the applications the division processes for the
general relief program are for the burial costs.
3:52:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SUMNER inquired whether the division anticipates
a substantial decrease in applications or times spent processing
with the removal of some items but having a portion of the
program remain in existence.
MS. ETHERIDGE responded that there will be a decrease in
applications based on the removal of those categories. However,
the number is pretty slight.
REPRESENTATIVE SUMNER asked how much the division anticipates
saving by removing these items, for example, staff processing
time or hours.
MS. ETHERIDGE replied that the number of hours that would be
saved is somewhat nominal in that a majority of applications for
the general relief program fall under burial. The processing
time for the burial relief program is between 60 and 90 minutes
depending on the complexity of the situation.
3:53:51 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS questioned where this program fits in the
"ecosystem" of other rental assistance programs. He asked who
the average person is, who gets general relief; whether it is
for people who are waiting for AHFC; and what the typical
sequence is for rental relief.
MS. ETHERIDGE replied that general relief is for people who are
extremely needy with no access to other programs. Countable
resources cannot exceed $500, and a single person's income
cannot exceed $300. They may likely qualify for other programs.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS inquired whether the threshold of per-day
assistance is $70 dollars.
MS. ETHERIDGE replied that a general relief program is also
operated for disabled persons and seniors and HB 258 as
presented does not impact that. The senior and disability
program has a monthly amount that is authorized.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked Ms. Etheridge what she would do if
she wanted to improve the delivery of general relief or rental
assistance. He explained he has heard anecdotally that a
homeless coordinator finds someone who needs shelter that night.
If the shelter is full, then the coordinator puts the homeless
person in a hotel. He said he did not know if that is how the
program is administered in other parts of the state or whether
there are other programs that should be considered and how the
programs could be administered as efficiently as possible.
MS. ETHERIDGE responded that she would like to take the question
back to her team to discuss.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS explained he could accept the premise that
the program could be eliminated if there is a better way to
provide rental and utility assistance. He also asked whether
there is simply a better delivery system within this program.
3:57:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MINA referenced the fiscal note and noted that it
was broken down into rent, utilities, miscellaneous, and burial.
She requested clarification regarding what was considered
miscellaneous in the general assistance program.
MS. ETHERIDGE said she did not have the information regarding
the miscellaneous category with her at that time.
3:57:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STAPP referred to the bill packet, explaining
that he had asked the division about the miscellaneous category
and was told there weren't any miscellaneous items.
REPRESENTATIVE MINA noted that there were numbers listed under
miscellaneous for FY19 through FY23. In addition, she asked Ms.
Etheridge whether the different types of general relief were in
regulations. She questioned whether the burial assistance,
which is currently in regulations, would be moved to statute
under the provisions of HB 258. She asked for clarification
regarding the difference in general assistance being in
regulations versus statute.
MS. ETHERIDGE replied that statutes are an overarching
authority, and regulations determine the details of what is
allowable in those expenditures.
REPRESENTATIVE STAPP explained his concept which was to add
burial assistance on the application form for public assistance.
He noted that from a process standpoint, individuals who go to
the DP office to get assistance and are checking boxes for
programs, if they see the word "burial assistance" listed with
the general assistance, they may think, "Maybe I don't have to
apply to that program." He opined that people tend to check all
the boxes, but fewer people will check that box if it actually
says burial assistance.
4:00:31 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MINA called attention to the application which
has two boxes, one of which read "burial expenses" and asked
whether it is necessary to change the statute to accomplish this
burial issue. She also asked if the other benefits such as
transportation and fuel could be highlighted on the general
relief application.
MS. ETHERIDGE explained that the legislature drives the policy
that would become regulation, so articulating burial in the
statute would give direction to the division regarding what the
application should say and what the funding would be for.
4:02:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked for clarification regarding whether
the bill would eliminate assistance.
REPRESENTATIVE STAPP explained the bill does delete the rental
and utility assistance under the authorization of general
relief. It keeps every other aspect of general relief intact.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER pointed out that rental assistance is 7
percent and utilities is about 3 percent, and burial assistance
is 89 percent, so the bill is reallocating resources from where
they are not well-utilized to a place where there is definitely
a demand.
REPRESENTATIVE STAPP replied that the intent is not really about
appropriation but rather about reducing administrative burden
within the department itself.
4:04:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SUMNER asked about other possible funding
requests such as food or clothing.
REPRESENTATIVE STAPP explained that the history of general
relief is very interesting and is a very old program. Even
inside the state statute there is language that mirrors
territorial Alaska. He said he wanted to be very surgical in
crafting the bill so that he didn't unintentionally interfere
with the senior disability services referenced earlier, for
example. He told the committee that he was always open to the
will of the committee if they think there is some language
clean-up.
4:05:21 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked whether there was an alternate way
to provide services to a small group of people who benefit from
rent and utilities other than spending 90 minutes of staff time
processing an application. Also, whether it is possible to
change the $300 amount because a homeless person sleeping in a
car potentially has more than $300 in assets.
REPRESENTATIVE STAPP responded that he was open to other modes
of delivery, but he also reminded the committee that he
advocated results-based budgeting, and he did not believe these
programs were delivering that in their current form.
4:06:32 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MINA questioned whether alternatives such as
voucher programs to the general relief had been considered.
REPRESENTATIVE STAPP replied that there are "different programs
for different folks in different walks of life." He described
the general relief program as a kind of legacy program which has
become outmoded over time and which is no longer performing
anywhere near the original intent of the program. He said he
was open to suggestions from the committee for other solutions.
REPRESENTATIVE MINA asked what Representative Stapp sees as the
intent of the program and what he wants as an outcome.
REPRESENTATIVE STAPP responded that he was unsure of the
original intent.
4:08:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS directed his question to Ms. Etheridge,
asking whether there was another way to restructure the program
so that it is not wasting staff hours while preserving the
program.
MS. ETHERIDGE said she would take that query back to the office.
In response to an earlier question, she commented that cases are
generally processed during business hours.
4:10:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MINA asked how much time it takes to process a
general relief application.
MS. ETHERIDGE explained that 60 minutes is ideal. However, the
division was required to get income verification because the
income limit is so low, and that takes additional time. Burial
relief gets more complicated because a person is applying "on
behalf of," and there are several calculations and verifications
regarding the payment for the burial.
REPRESENTATIVE MINA questioned whether the rent and utility
assistance would go out immediately after processing.
MS. ETHERIDGE responded that generally it is a guarantee of
payment that goes forward rather than an actual payment.
4:11:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked how the income of someone living in
a car is verified.
MS. ETHERIDGE explained that the division uses a method referred
to as "known negative verification," so if a person does say
they do not have income, then generally the division takes that
as true especially if the person is homeless. However, if the
person potentially works day labor or has had employment, then
there is an attempt to verify by using a pay stub or calling an
employer.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS inquired whether the process differs if a
person has kids.
MS. ETHERIDGE responded that a required verification applies to
the whole household.
4:13:24 PM
CHAIR PRAX inquired about possible scenarios in which a person
would need immediate assistance for that day or that night,
commenting that it seems difficult to process immediate relief
and asking whether the division does indeed provide immediate
assistance.
MS. ETHERIDGE replied that the division will give immediate
assistance to the extent that the division has the capacity.
Rent is usually the area in which there is immediate need, in
the case of eviction or displacement. Utilities generally do
not need to be issued that day, so a statement of "agree to pay"
works.
4:14:31 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MINA said she agrees with the rationale but
worries that eliminating one mechanism for providing assistance
puts people in jeopardy. She described a situation that
occurred in Representative Fields' district with an individual
who was about to be evicted and was trying to find any sort of
immediate relief which was very difficult. She wanted to know
about other programs for rental and utility assistance but did
not want to eliminate options for people who are in very
vulnerable circumstances.
4:15:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS requested testimony at the next hearing
from other service providers who deal with this situation.
4:16:04 PM
CHAIR PRAX announced HB 258 was held over.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 258 Fiscal Note DOH-GRA.pdf |
HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 258 |
| HB 258 Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 258 |
| HB 258 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 258 |
| April Erickson Nursing CV_Redacted.pdf |
HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
Governor's Appointee |
| Ronald Gherman Chiropractic Application_Redacted.pdf |
HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
Governor's Appointee |
| Ronald Gherman Chiropractic Resume_Redacted.pdf |
HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
Governor's Appointee |
| HB 264 - Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HHSS 1/30/2024 3:00:00 PM HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 264 |
| HB 258 Supporting Doc.pdf |
HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 258 |
| HB 258 DoH Q&A.pdf |
HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 258 |
| HB 258 Sponsor Statement v.2.pdf |
HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 258 |
| HB 258 Disability Law Center Comments.pdf |
HHSS 2/8/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 258 |