Legislature(2013 - 2014)CAPITOL 106
03/04/2014 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing(s)|| State Commission for Human Rights|| Board of Parole|| Personnel Board|| Alaska Police Standards Council|| Alaska Public Offices Commission | |
| HB232 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| *+ | HB 232 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 232-DISABILITY DESIGNATION ON ID/LICENSE
8:50:10 AM
CHAIR LYNN announced that the final order of business was HOUSE
BILL NO. 232, "An Act relating to a voluntary disability
designation on a state identification card and a driver's
license; and relating to training in recognizing disabilities."
8:50:34 AM
JANE PIERSON, Staff, Representative Steve Thompson, Alaska State
Legislature, presented HB 232 on behalf of Representative
Thompson, prime sponsor. She stated:
The goal of HB 232 is to assist in communications
between justice professionals, law enforcement
professionals, emergency responders, and other
agencies that may interact with people who have hidden
disabilities, whether these individuals encounter the
system as victims, witnesses, or alleged perpetrators.
Hidden or invisible disabilities are those physical or
mental impairments that are not readily apparent to
others. They include such conditions as intellectual
disabilities, traumatic brain injuries, mental health
conditions, epilepsy, hearing impairment, [fetal
alcohol spectrum disorders] FASD, autism, and post-
traumatic stress disorder.
MS. PIERSON said HB 232 has two components. The first would be
to institute a voluntary statewide identification (ID) system,
which would discretely inform officials that the individual with
whom they are interacting has a hidden disability. She said the
indicator would be "intentionally unobtrusive," similar to the
water mark currently used on the Alaska ID card and driver's
license to indicate an organ donor. An individual would have
the option to display a larger indicator, for example, on
his/her vehicle. She said one woman in Fairbanks wears a
certain vest as an indicator.
MS. PIERSON relayed that the second component in HB 232 would be
to require training of all justice professionals, law
enforcement professionals, emergency responders and other
agencies to recognize a person with a hidden disability and to
learn to appropriately interact with that person. She relayed
that the sponsor was still working on the training component of
HB 232. She said the original idea was to have the Governor's
Council of Disabilities and Special Education be responsible for
the training, but said "unfortunately, this is not a good fit,
and we're working to find the right departmental organization to
oversee this portion of the bill." She stated that it is the
sponsor's intent that the training portion of HB 232 be a short,
computer-based, educational program that will give basic
instruction and provide resources for further education or
information.
8:53:25 AM
MS. PIERSON said the Ninth Circuit Court has just held for the
first time that Title 2 of the Alaskans with Disabilities Act is
applicable to arrest and to police investigations.
Specifically, she said, the court notes that there are two types
of Alaskans with Disabilities claims for policies investigators
and arrests. The first, she said, is wrongful arrest, which is
when the police arrest someone with a disability, because they
misperceive the effects of that disability as criminal activity.
The second is reasonable accommodation, which is when police
properly investigate and arrest a person with a disability for a
crime unrelated to the disability, they fail to reasonably
accommodate the person's disability in the course of the
investigation or arrest, causing the person to suffer greater
injury or indignity in the process than other arrestees.
8:54:25 AM
MS. PIERSON said people with hidden disabilities can face many
disadvantages when interacting with the criminal justice system.
She said disabled people may not want their disabilities
recognized, so they try to hide them. She said, "This would
hopefully make it more open for people to discuss that they do
have a disability." She listed other disadvantages as follows:
They may not understand commands.
They may be overwhelmed by the presence of authority.
They may have trouble processing or remembering
information.
They may not be able to follow instructions and may be
perceived as belligerent or unmotivated.
They may have a low level of frustration, causing them
to act out in anger.
They may not understand why they are being detained
and try to run away or become upset or combative.
They may have difficulty remembering or describing
details, actions, or facts.
They may not understand what they are agreeing to.
They may be easily led or persuaded by others.
They may eagerly confess in order to please or answer
questions in ways they think will please who they are
talking with.
MS. PIERSON said understanding that a person [has] a disability
is the first step to creating equality with those with hidden
disabilities when they interact with police officers, first
responders, or court officers. She said without the knowledge
that the person has the hidden disability, reasonable
accommodations cannot be provided.
8:55:41 AM
MS. PIERSON covered the bill sectional, which read as follows:
Section 1. Adds a new section to AS 18.08 That directs
an emergency medical service system to provide its
employees training in recognizing hidden disabilities.
Section 2. Adds a new section to AS 18.65.310
Providing that a person may voluntarily designate on
their State of Alaska Identification Card that they
have a disability.
Section 3. Adds a new section to AS 18.65 - Training
in Recognizing Disabilities. Providing the framework
for establishing the disability training program.
Section 4. AS 18.70.020 is amended instructing the
Department of Public Safety to provide a training
program to recognize and interact with a person with a
hidden disability.
Section 5. AS 22.20 is amended by adding a new section
- Instructing the Alaska Court System to provide
training in recognizing and interacting with people
with hidden disabilities.
Section 6. AS 28.15.111 is amended by adding a new
subsection, providing that a person may voluntarily
designate on their Alaska State Driver's License a
disability designation and the fee that the department
can charge.
8:56:37 AM
CHAIR LYNN related an incident that happened when he served as a
police officer in Tucson, Arizona, in which a man was arrested
for being drunk in public, when actually the man was
experiencing a diabetic coma. He asked Ms. Pierson if the
proposed bill would protect someone in that situation.
MS. PIERSON confirmed that the intent of the bill is to provide
awareness that there is a problem, thus making the first
communication with the person non-combative and more
understanding.
8:57:47 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER questioned whether one designator would be
enough for the broad range of disabilities when "it's dependent
upon the communication between the disabled person and ...
whoever needs to have the information."
MS. PIERSON answered that there is a universal symbol, and that
or something similar could be used as the designator. She
indicated that research for HB 232 revealed that there are
already many training programs in existence. She offered her
understanding that that is reflected in the fiscal notes
[included in the committee packet].
8:58:38 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER noted that the cost of the bill is tied to
the Division of Motor Vehicles and "getting the mechanical part
of it done." He said he was pleased that the entities that
would have to respond to the proposed bill have indicated their
support of it.
MS. PIERSON responded that is true; however, she said she thinks
there is still more work to do with the departments to ensure
those actually working with the public have the necessary
training.
8:59:18 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES asked if a physical disability would
include medical conditions. Further, she asked for an
explanation of the difference between cognitive and mental
disabilities.
MS. PIERSON responded that under HB 232, diabetes would be a
hidden disability. She said HB 232 was brought to the sponsor
by the local disability community in Fairbanks. She said she
found it interesting that that community addressed "all sorts of
things." She added, "So, ... a hidden disability can cross all
sorts of lines."
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES questioned whether the word "medical"
needs to be added. She then asked if other states have passed
similar legislation.
9:00:55 AM
MS. PIERSON answered that she did not know, but would find out.
9:01:06 AM
CHAIR LYNN said whether or not alcoholism is a disease has long
been debated. He asked if, under HB 232, someone could
designate him/herself as an alcoholic who is unable to drink
responsibly.
MS. PIERSON answered that that is not intent of bill.
CHAIR LYNN suggested that could be an unintended consequence.
9:01:36 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER directed attention to the second sentence
in the analysis section of the fiscal note from the DMV
[provided in the committee packet], which read as follows
[original punctuation provided]:
Proof of the disability (cognitive, mental,
neurological, or physical) must be provided at the
time of the request and must be issued by a person
licensed as a medical doctor or physician assistant
under AS 08.64, an advanced nurse practitioner under
AS 08.68, or a licensed psychologist under AS 08.86.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER ventured that someone who had a problem
with alcohol would not be given the designation without both
asking for it and getting documentation from a doctor.
MS. PIERSON concurred.
9:02:29 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS said she was thinking about the many
differences of people. She said she has friends who stutter.
She offered her understanding that the proposed legislation
would encourage a heightened sensitivity in first responders to
discover another reason for a person's behavior. She related
that she is the legal guardian of her father-in-law, who is
diabetic, and he wears something around his neck that lets first
responders know to call her. She said there was a situation
where her father-in-law had not fallen in to a coma, but was
acting "really goofy," and that situation could have gone wrong,
but did not. Representative Gattis asked Ms. Pierson to talk
about the impetus for HB 232.
9:04:40 AM
MS. PIERSON indicated that Representative Thomas held meetings
with "the disability services people in Fairbanks" in the summer
of 2013. Local stories were relayed. She said no one was at
fault; it was "misperceived from the get-go." She relayed that
the bill sponsor is trying to provide an avenue for a first line
of communication.
9:05:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS said he is also curious to know if
similar legislation exists in other states. He then opined that
Section 2 makes sense, because it seems to solve a problem. He
said Sections 3-5 give him pause, because he believes in
frugality when it comes to statutes. He questioned whether
requiring training could best be accomplished through a dialog
with the departments, through more informal means. He
recollected conversations with school board members and
superintendents who have talked about the onerous accumulation
of regulation and law over decades. He clarified that "while
all of this is wonderful and important," he questions
establishing the proposed training programs by law.
9:07:18 AM
MS. PIERSON indicated that a next step may be to gather those
people who work with those with disabilities to discuss exactly
what sort of training is needed and decide whether that needs to
be in statute or how it needs to be referenced, as well as to
find out "what is already being done."
9:08:46 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER recalled that Representative Gattis had
mentioned people who stutter. He directed attention to language
in Section 6, on page 3, lines 14-15, of HB 232, which read:
"the owner has a disability, including a cognitive, mental,
neurological, or physical disability, or a combination of them."
He said he thinks the DMV needs to know that the scope of
possibilities would not be limited by a licensed doctor. He
opined that the language is clear.
9:10:07 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES said she appreciates the list, but would
like to know what a medical professional may or may not include.
For example, one doctor might include alcoholism and another
might not. She said there is nothing that would prevent a
person who is, for example, a diabetic from wearing special
identification indicating his/her condition. She questioned
whether there is a way for a person to carry that ID without the
state's involvement. She asked, for example, if there might be
a national organization already in existence.
9:11:34 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS indicated that just because one doctor may
consider alcoholism a disability that does not mean it is all
right for the person to be drinking and driving. She said she
thinks the first responder would note the disability but still
tell the person if they are doing something against the law, and
she said she does not think the bill would change that.
MS. PIERSON responded that Representative Gattis is correct that
a person, whether or not with a disability, would be punished
for a crime.
9:13:27 AM
CHAIR LYNN ventured there would not be enough room on a driver's
license or state ID to include a description of a person's
disability; therefore, he questioned how a first responder would
be able to figure it out.
MS. PIERSON confirmed that there is not enough room on the
license to include the information, but she surmised that the
first responder would ask the person to find out what kind of
disability he/she had. She said she would need to talk to [the
director of the DMV], Amy Erickson, to find out if the signifier
on the driver's license or state ID would be linked in to the
division's database.
CHAIR LYNN pointed out that it had been impossible to talk to
the aforementioned man in the diabetic coma.
9:15:02 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES said she would be interested to know if
the signifier on the ID would be linked in to the DMV's
database. She asked if part of the proposed training for first
responders would be to ask the person with the signifier on the
driver's license or state ID what his/her disability is.
MS. PIERSON answered she hoped it would be. She indicated she
would need to find out if there would be any issues related to
the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA),
because the DMV would receive a letter from a doctor regarding
the disability.
9:16:53 AM
FRANK BOX testified that he is a two-time brain cancer survivor
who has experienced sensory processing disorder. He said he
facilitates a head injuries support group in Anchorage, Alaska.
He said when [a first responder] shines a light into a car, that
light will bother most people's eyes, but it can induce a
seizure in some individuals. He relayed that the support group
has given cards to its members, but the act of reaching into a
coat pocket for the card can appear threatening to an officer;
therefore, if the aforementioned icon were placed on the
person's driver's license, it would give the officer a heads up
to either check for a medical alert bracelet or ask further
questions. He said strobe lights [from a police vehicle] could
cause someone to appear drunk or impaired. He stated that if
the person is then asked to get out of the vehicle and cannot
use his/her vision to balance, he/she will fall down and appear
even more inebriated, and may become upset because the officer
is asking for something that could harm the person. He stated,
"A little bit of understanding at the beginning would help a
lot." He said he has appeared "out of it," and when people ask
him questions he gives them his medical history.
MR. BOX spoke of one man who could type 40-50 words a minute,
but could not talk because of a problem with stuttering. He
indicated that the man did just fine using a communication
board, which Mr. Box indicated was supplied by the support
group. He said the man, who had a drug problem, did not drive
but traveled by bus. If he was asked a question while on the
bus, he would have to dig in to his backpack to get his tablet,
which would result in the man being tackled; therefore, the
support group made the man a card to wear on a lanyard, and when
he showed the card, he would then be allowed to reach into his
backpack for the tablet. He indicated that the man on the bus
with the lanyard and tablet is an example of giving someone the
space he/she needs before reacting.
MR. BOX remarked that police officers have a tough job, and he
stated that "their first duty is to come home alive to their
family." He said, "I work with that population now, so I can
really appreciate it, but I can appreciate it from the point of
being up here. So, I hear about it all the time."
9:20:04 AM
MR. BOX, referring to previously expressed concerns about
alcoholism as a disability and drunk driving, said, "I don't
think this should be a get-out-of-jail free card." He said he
knows how even a little bit of alcohol affects him, and he does
not like it. He talked about people in the support group
claiming that they only drank one beer six hours ago, and he
said they should know better than to drink at all when they have
a neurological impairment. Mr. Box opined that a person who
knows he/she should not drink but does so and breaks the law by
driving while intoxicated or being drunk in public is "probably
done" and gets what he/she deserves and "ruins it for the rest
of us."
MR. BOX stated, "I'm an advocate, and I'm a survivor, and I
would really appreciate this bill being passed." He recommended
the committee investigate some of the crisis intervention teams
that are working with the Anchorage Police Department (APD). He
indicated that he and Wendy Shackleford (ph) offer training on
the last day of the crisis intervention team training. He said
it is a great program, and he offered his understanding that it
is voluntary. He related that over 120 police officers in
Anchorage have completed the training.
9:22:08 AM
EMILY LUCAS stated that she is a 33-year-old woman who, while
working as a rafting guide in Denali National Park and Preserve
a year and a half ago, suffered a (indisc.) that resulted in a
stroke. She said she is doing well, although she has hidden
cognitive and neurological disabilities, which she indicated are
not expected in someone her age or just by looking at her. She
related an incident in Colorado, last September, during the
floods, when she ended up walking to an area that she did not
realize had been closed off by police, and she was almost
arrested, because she was not able to process the officer's
direction and move quickly enough. She said she did not explain
her disability, because she did not want to complicate the
situation, but she was able to apologize and move on and avoid
arrest. She said she has heard stories of people who have been
arrested in similar situations.
9:25:08 AM
MS. LUCAS, regarding the idea of wearing a card, said she has
heard of situations where officers are not able to verify that
the card is from a reputable source, which she said she
understands, and the situations have resulted in arrest. She
expressed appreciation of the proposed legislation, especially
the treatment of people with hidden disabilities as a great way
to open the dialog "to explain these things," not only from the
perspective of first responders and courts, but also from the
perspective of the victims or survivors.
9:26:31 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS said she agrees with Ms. Lucas, with the
exception of her remarks about the card. She said she thinks
all first responders would look at a card, which would give them
pause to "look deeper." Further, she said a tag on the driver's
license or state ID would have merit. She opined that any time
an individual indicates to others "what may be a problem or a
concern," he/she has done a better job of communicating.
9:27:56 AM
JUANITA WEBB stated that she is part of "Wall Busters," an
advocacy group in Fairbanks that helped bring the proposed
legislation forward. She indicated that she has trouble with
the idea of wearing a card announcing a disability. She
explained, "If I have a hidden disability, I'm going to try to
live my life as normally as I can." She opined that a person
with a disability has the right to privacy. She recollected
that someone had spoken of people having the cards without the
state getting involved. She said, "I think it's more than that.
It's the combination of the card and the training together. ...
You can have everybody work hard, but if there's not training
behind that that tells people how to interact or what symptoms
some of these disabilities may create, we're not solving
anything at all."
9:29:47 AM
RICHARD WEBB, National Federation of the Blind - Midnight Sun
Chapter, stated that he was testifying on behalf of the National
Federation of the Blind - Midnight Sun Chapter and himself. He
said he is involved in many committees throughout the state. He
said there are many key words in the proposed legislation that
the federation likes. One is "discreet". He said the disabled
population is vulnerable, and wearing a placard tells everybody,
whether good-intentioned or not, about the disability. He said
he is legally blind and carries a white cane; therefore, he
already shows any onlooker that he has a disability.
Nevertheless, he said he is amazed how many people do not know
the meaning of a white cane. He said he has not had many
interactions with law enforcement or the court system, but
emphasized the importance of training both. He highlighted that
under HB 232, the wearing of a card to signify a disability
would be voluntary. He said the blind community wants to be
treated equally.
MR. WEBB said he has heard various stories about people with
disabilities who were arrested or close to arrested because
police officers made an assumption based on their speech or
walk, for example. He said those who do not know the
significance of his white cane or wrap-around sunglasses may
think that he is looking at them, because he is not completely
blind. He said that in fact, a very small portion of the blind
population is 100 percent blind. He stated his belief that [HB
232] is a great step forward. He noted that there is nothing
really to model the bill after; there is something similar in
the State of Illinois, but "it is not quite the same as this
bill would create." He said the proposed bill is not "a fix-
all," but reiterated that it is an important step.
9:34:25 AM
CHAIR LYNN noted that his mother had undergone a laryngectomy at
one point, and he commented on the tendency of some to speak
louder to a person who cannot speak, forgetting that there is
nothing wrong with the person's hearing.
9:35:11 AM
TERESA HOLT, Executive Director, Governor's Council on
Disabilities and Special Education, testified that the council
supports HB 232, but respectfully asked the committee to remove
the council's name from the language [in subsection (b)], on
page 2, beginning on line 17, which read as follows:
(b) In providing a training program under
this section, each agency or institution offering a
police training program shall consult with the
Governor's Council on Disabilities and Special
Education established under AS 47.80.030.
MS. HOLT explained that the council's main purpose under federal
law is to advise the state regarding the needs and systems
changes for individuals with intellectual and developmental
disabilities, which is only a fraction of all the individuals
that may have disabilities. The council would not, for example,
feel qualified to address the needs of someone who is diabetic
or someone with a mental health issue. Ms. Holt indicated her
support of an earlier comment regarding the APD, and suggested
that either the APD, with its extensive program, or the Alaska
Mental Health Trust Authority (AMHTA) could give better
direction; however, she said no one entity covers all
disabilities.
9:37:34 AM
MS. PIERSON reiterated that the sponsor is working on finding a
go-to source. In response to the chair, she said she does not
disagree with [Ms. Holt].
9:39:36 AM
RODNEY DIAL, Lieutenant, Deputy Commander, A Attachment,
Division of Alaska State Troopers, Department of Public Safety,
stated that the division does train its officers to look for any
indication of illness, disability, or injury as part of the
investigative process. The reports done when someone has been
stopped for DUI have checklists, whereby the officer would
document any signs of injury or disability. He told the
committee that additionally any person who is brought into the
department who complains of illness or injury is taken in for
medical clearance before he/she is incarcerated. If the illness
or injury is severe, the division will usually wait until
treatment is complete before arresting the individual "to
protect the state from paying for medical services." He said
there are some limitations on what the Alaska Public Information
System - used by the DMV and law enforcement - can store,
regarding medical conditions. For example, when the division
deals with individuals with known infectious diseases, it uses a
general system of notification with universal precautions and
then leaves specific medical information off the system to
protect the individual's privacy.
LIEUTENANT DIAL said if, under HB 232, a person's disability was
indicated on his/her driver's license, the division may have
some question as to what types of medical questions could be
asked. He concluded, "If we suspect any in the field, for
example, prior to giving field sobriety testing, we will
certainly ask those currently." He offered to answer questions.
9:41:30 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES noted that the Alaska Police Officers
Association expressed concern in a letter about the proposed
bill, and the association argued that it is currently offering
training programs. She asked Lieutenant Dial if there is
anything in the bill that he would want changed and whether he
feels that the Division of Alaska State Troopers is already
ascertaining in every situation whether there may be a
disability.
9:42:14 AM
LIEUTENANT DIAL said he would expect officers to use common
sense in looking for "any evidence of anything." He offered his
understanding that HB 232 would require the department to
develop training, perhaps in consultation with the Governor's
Council on Disabilities [and Special Education] or some other
entity that meets the qualifiers in the bill. He said his
search of various law enforcement jurisdictions across the
country indicates that "training of this nature usually averages
about four hours in length for those areas that provide it." He
said the department anticipated it could develop a training
video or in-house training program that would allow compliance
with HB 232, with no fiscal impact. He indicated that the
division's only concern would be that a requirement for training
beyond that could be a fiscal burden. He noted that in other
jurisdictions, the training seemed to center around how people
with disabilities might react to a situation, wherein actions
are misinterpreted as aggressive, which would lead to an
escalation and use of force situation. He said those are
elements that would be taken into consideration as a training
program was developed to teach at the Public Safety Academy and
Safe Fire Service Training Program.
9:44:14 AM
AMY ERICKSON, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV),
Department of Administration, stated that the DMV would have no
problem implementing HB 232. She said Representative Keller is
correct that the DMV would have to expand its database to
include a new field for the designator, and estimates doing so
would take approximately 320 program hours and $45,000. She
said it is difficult to estimate how many Alaskans would
volunteer for the designator; therefore, it did not offset its
fiscal note [included in the committee packet] with any revenues
that may be generated. She stated that the proposed legislation
would require DMV employees to review potentially sensitive
medical documents in order to authenticate a disability;
therefore, it would recommend language included in the bill so
that the DMV could develop the application in such a manner such
that medical providers could sign off on the person's qualifying
disability. She offered to answer questions. In response to
Representative Hughes, she said she does not anticipate that
under HB 232 the DMV would be a repository for any medical
information, but would just make the indication in its records
that the person with the disability would get that designation.
9:46:26 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES recollected that someone had mentioned a
need to exclude some members of the court system that do not
interface with the public. She questioned if language may need
to be changed in HB 232 to address that issue.
9:46:45 AM
NANCY MEADE, General Counsel, Central Office, Office of the
Administrative Director, Alaska Court System, referred to
[Section 5 of the bill, on page 3, lines 7-10, which read as
follows]:
*Sec.5.AS 22.20 is amended by adding a new section to
article 1 to read:
Sec. 22.20.038. Training in recognizing
disabilities. The administrative director of the
Alaska Court System shall provide to judicial officers
and employees training that meets the requirements of
AS 18.65.350.
MS. MEADE said the Alaska Court System has approximately 800
employees, many of whom work in technological services and do
not have contact with the public and perhaps could be excluded
from the proposed bill. She said she has suggested that using
the phrase "court clerks who contact with the public" might
fulfill the sponsor's intent.
9:48:06 AM
MS. PIERSON expressed her hope to work with all parties in
perfecting the proposed legislation.
9:48:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES clarified that she had played devil's
advocate through some of her questions, but has compassion on
this issue and understands from reading the information in the
committee packet that there have been some actions taken and
arrests involving people with disabilities that should not have
occurred, and "something like that could possibly eliminate or
at least reduce some of that from happening." She expressed
appreciation for the sponsor's bringing forward the proposed
legislation.
9:49:14 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS suggested that the testimony today has
shed light on the issue, and she expressed appreciation to the
bill sponsor and Ms. Pierson.
9:49:50 AM
CHAIR LYNN closed public testimony.
CHAIR LYNN announced that HB 232 was held over.