Legislature(2023 - 2024)BARNES 124
03/25/2024 03:15 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB218 | |
| HB313 | |
| HB324 | |
| HB55 | |
| HB226 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 313 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 324 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 55 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 226 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 218 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 218-FIREFIGHTER WORKERS COMP REQUIREMENTS
3:18:11 PM
CHAIR SUMNER announced that the first order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 218, "An Act relating to coverage for disability
from diseases for certain firefighters; and providing for an
effective date."
3:18:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS moved to adopt Amendment 1 to HB 218,
labeled 33-LS0709\B.2, Marx, 3/25/24, which read:
Page 2, line 9:
Delete "three"
Insert "six [THREE]"
Page 2, line 10:
Delete "60"
Insert "84 [60]"
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX objected.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS explained that Amendment 1 would lengthen
the period of time post-employment that firefighters can be
covered by workers compensation from five years to seven years.
The current system of covering a firefighter for a period post-
employment would be maintained, he further explained, but the
amendment would push the timeline out from three months to six
months per year of employment. He said Amendment 1 is based on
feedback received from the Alaska State Firefighters Association
(ASFA) during a previous legislative session.
3:19:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX expressed his concern that the committee
hasn't heard whether workers' compensation insurance providers
can handle the increased risk at the premiums to be charged. He
advised that if the local statewide company which provides
workers' compensation coverage is unable to determine the
actuarial risk or decides it is so high that it must discontinue
offering policies to fire companies, then the companies would
get kicked into the assigned risk pool and the premiums would go
way up. He urged that before deciding on the amendment, the
committee learn how it would affect premiums.
CHAIR SUMNER, in response to Representative Fields, informed the
committee that there is no one online to address HB 218.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER requested that he be able to present the
answers to the questions asked during the bill's previous
hearing before engaging on the language of Amendment 1.
3:21:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS withdrew Amendment 1 so the answers could
be heard.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER addressed the question about the bill's
intention in distinguishing between hiring and certification.
He answered that a person can be hired and work as a firefighter
pulling hoses, driving trucks, directing traffic, opening fire
hydrants, and so forth, but before someone can wear a pack and
enter a burning building they are required to have Firefighter 1
certification from the Alaska Fire Standards Council. It can
take months or possibly years between hiring and certification,
he explained, so the goal was to have exams at both areas.
Regarding the question about the time between hiring and being
certified, he answered that it is not uncommon for a firefighter
to be hired at a department and become certified months or
perhaps years later. Regarding the question about the effect on
the risk pool of this coverage, Representative Saddler answered
that this question was raised in 2022 when then-Senator Holland
added breast cancer to the list of presumed diseases for which
service as a firefighter was a presumed cause. He related that,
at that time, the Division of Insurance and the Division of
Workers' Compensation testified, and the Department of Labor &
Workforce Development concurred, that there was no indication
the bill would increase the risk or the cost. He further
related that the National Council of Compensation Insurers
(NCCI) has advised him that any change to the cost or risk would
be incalculable due to how little this provision would be used.
So, he continued, the answer is that he doesn't think the
departments would be exposed to huge risk.
3:24:09 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS again moved to adopt Amendment 1.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER objected, but qualified it isn't really
an objection. He stated he doesn't have a problem with page 1,
lines 1-5, of Amendment 1, which would extend the presumption
past a firefighter's retirement from the current statute of 60
months/five years to 84 months/seven years. He shared that the
director of the Division of Workers' Compensation has indicated
his support of this extension as well. Representative Saddler
then argued that lines 1-[4] of Amendment 1 would be
accomplished in the first section of Amendment 2. He said he
intends to look favorably upon the first section of Amendment 2
and offered Conceptual Amendment 1 to Amendment 1, which would
delete lines 1-4 of the Amendment 1.
3:25:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE objected to Conceptual Amendment 1. He
said the first part of Amendment 1 would affect page 2, line 9
of the bill, while the first part of Amendment 2, would affect
page 2, line 14 of the bill, and they are different.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER concurred. He said the first part of
Amendment 1 offered by Representative Fields would increase the
factor by 100 percent, so instead of three months for each year
of service, it would be six months for every year of service.
He surmised that this would be a doubling of the length of time
beyond which a retired firefighter could enjoy this presumption.
3:26:38 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 3:26 p.m. to 3:28 p.m.
3:28:26 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS, regarding going from three months to six
months per year of service, stated that firefighters would
continue to accrue additional benefits, until with the prospect
of adoption of Amendment 2, which would set it at 84 months,
would be 14 years of service versus the status quo of 20.
3:28:57 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE noted that Conceptual Amendment 1 would
delete the language in Amendment 1 that proposes to alter three
months of accrued possible disability to six months of accrued
possible disability for every year of requisite service. He
further noted that Amendment 1 would also increase the total
number of calendar months following the last day of employment
[from 60] to 84. Under current statute, he said, an individual
must work for 20 years to be capped out at 60 calendar months.
He interpreted Amendment 1 as saying that an individual must
work for 14 years to cap out at the 84 months. If [Conceptual
Amendment 1 to Amendment 1 is adopted], he continued, but the 84
months is kept, an individual will have to work for well over 30
years to cap out. He said he is not in support of the
conceptual amendment because it would extend that time for way
too long.
CHAIR SUMNER estimated it would be slightly under 30 years.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS said it would be 28 [years].
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE thanked Chair Sumner and Representative
Fields.
3:30:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER stated he misread the provisions and
agreed that extending the period to [nearly] 30 years is too
much. He further stated that is okay with the second section of
Amendment 1 that would change 60 to 84. He withdrew Conceptual
Amendment 1 to Amendment 1. He said his preference is to not
accept Amendment 1 and instead make modification to [Amendment
2] to accomplish the provision of changing 60 to 84.
3:31:40 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Ruffridge, Carrick,
and Fields voted in favor of Amendment 1. Representatives Prax,
Saddler, Wright, and Sumner voted against it. Therefore,
Amendment 1 failed by a vote of 3-4.
3:32:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE moved to adopt Amendment 2 to HB 218,
labeled 33-LS0709\B.1, Marx, 3/6/24, which read:
Page 2, line 14:
Delete "three"
Insert "six"
Page 2, lines 15 - 25:
Delete all material and insert:
"(A) underwent [WAS GIVEN] a qualifying
medical examination
(i) upon the first employment as [BECOMING]
a firefighter that did not show evidence of the
disease;
(ii) at least once every two years [(B) WAS
GIVEN AN ANNUAL MEDICAL EXAM] during [EACH OF] the
first six [SEVEN] years of employment as a firefighter
that did not show evidence of the disease; and"
Page 2, line 30, following "cancer":
Insert ";
(4) the requirements of (3)(A) of this subsection
apply only if the firefighter's employer makes the
applicable qualifying medical examination available to
the firefighter"
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER objected.
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE reviewed the three parts within
Amendment 2. He noted that page 2, lines 12-14 of HB 218,
propose to change [the current statute of] seven years to three
years. The first part of Amendment 2, he said, proposes to
change three years to six. The rationale for the amendment's
change, he explained, is that some of these diseases can take a
significant amount of time to manifest themselves, so three
years seems to be a short window, seven years seems a little too
long, and six years seems more appropriate.
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE stated that the second part of
Amendment 2 proposes to delete all material from page 2, lines
15-25 of HB 218, thereby getting rid of the language [that
distinguishes between a firefighter being hired and a
firefighter becoming certified]. He said this second provision
also proposes that a medical exam be given every two years for
the first six years of employment instead of annually during the
first seven years. This ensures, he explained, that a disease
doesn't creep up without notice and can be treated early, and
this language matches up with the language proposed to be
inserted on page 2, line. 14.
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE explained that the third part of
Amendment 2 would add a new section on page 2, line 30 of HB
218. He allowed that adding this provision could be debatable
given that many of Alaska's institutions are volunteer.
However, he continued, these qualifying medical examinations are
very expensive and probably should be a part of the employment
process, so reducing it to every two years might fit easier into
a budget than every year.
3:35:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER stated that he can accept the first part
of Amendment 2 because it accomplishes the bill's general goal
to lower the onus of obtaining workers' compensation insurance
for firefighter cancers. He further stated that he can accept
the second part of Amendment 2 because it advances the overall
goal of the bill, even though it isn't the exact schedule he had
originally presumed and worked with the fire chiefs to say.
However, he continued, he is opposed to the third part of
Amendment 2 because it conditions the periodic medical exam
required on whether the employer pays for it, and if the
employer doesn't pay for the exam then the periodic exam
requirement goes away and does not apply. He pointed out that
someone who had cancer before being hired as a firefighter would
not have that cancer established as a baseline if the department
didn't pay for medical exams, thereby exposing the department to
the risk of future workers' compensation claims from a cancer
that could have been detected had the department paid for exams.
This third part of Amendment 2, he argued, contravenes the
purpose of the underlying statute and HB 218 by potentially
increasing costs to fire departments.
3:37:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked whether Representatives Ruffridge
and Saddler want him to offer a conceptual amendment to add
lines 5-7 of Amendment 1 into Amendment 2.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER said that would not be his preference.
3:38:32 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER moved to adopt Amendment 1 to Amendment 2
to delete lines 16-20 on page 1 of Amendment 2. The language to
do this, he explained, is written in Amendment 3, labeled 33-
LS0709\B.3, Marx, 3/25/24, and which reads:
Page 1, lines 16 - 20 of the amendment:
Delete all material.
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE objected to Amendment 1 to Amendment 2.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER stated that parts one and two of
Amendment 2 comport with the intent of the underlying statute
and with HB 218, but part three of Amendment 2 does not. So, he
continued, he would like part three excised from Amendment 2.
3:39:29 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK asked whether there are employers that do
not currently offer applicable qualifying medical examinations,
and whether the [other] language in Amendment 2 would establish
requirements that employers were capable of meeting. She
further asked about the sponsor's intent in this section.
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE replied that, based on his research,
this language is variable throughout the multiple firefighting
apparatuses and groups across Alaska. He allowed that volunteer
firefighting groups struggle to offer these expensive medical
examinations. He recalled that testimony during the bill's
initial iteration indicated that moving the timeframe for a
medical exam by up to five years would help offset the cost,
which could be up to $1,800 according to his research. He said
many employers do make these qualifying medical examinations
available and offering them is probably a standard that should
be upheld, although it can be a cost barrier to some.
3:41:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER reiterated that part three of Amendment 2
would condition the periodic medical exam on whether the
department pays the cost of the exam, and he doesn't think there
is any requirement for an individual to get those examinations.
Without the exams, he said, a firefighter may have a harder time
proving that any cancer which developed later was caused by
their service as a firefighter. It is a disincentive, he
argued, for departments to provide those periodic medical exams,
so it is contradictory to the intent of the bill and the law.
3:42:35 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Saddler, Wright,
Carrick, and Sumner voted in favor of Amendment 1 to Amendment
2. Representatives Prax, Ruffridge, and Fields voted against
it. Therefore, Amendment 1 to Amendment 2 was adopted by a vote
of 4-3.
CHAIR SUMNER said there is still objection to Amendment 2, as
amended.
3:43:37 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Carrick, Fields,
Prax, Ruffridge, Saddler, Wright, and Sumner voted in favor of
Amendment 2, as amended. Therefore, Amendment 2, as amended,
was adopted by a vote of 7-0.
3:44:17 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RUFFRIDGE moved to report HB 218, as amended, out
of committee with individual recommendations and the
accompanying zero fiscal note. There being no objection, CSHB
218(L&C) was reported from the House Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB313 PowerPoint Presentation for HL&C.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 313 |
| HB313 ver. A.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 313 |
| HB313 Transmittal Letter.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 313 |
| HB313 Sectional Analysis ver. A.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 313 |
| HB313 Fiscal Note DCCED-RCA.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 313 |
| HB 324-Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 324 |
| HB 324 Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 324 |
| HB 324 Supporting Documents-State Map.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 324 |
| HB233 Support Letter - Chair of Automative and Diesel Tech UAA.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 233 |
| UA TVEP_HLC Committee_3-25-24.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 55 |
| 2024 UA TVEP Reauthorization Report.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 55 |
| FY23 AWIB Technical and Vocational Report.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 55 |
| AWIB Resolution Supporting Reauthorization of TVEP-docx.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 55 |
| B.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 324 |
| Summary of Changes HB 324 – Bill Ver A to B.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 324 |
| 20240325 AK HB 226 COA support.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 226 |
| HB218 Amendments.pdf |
HL&C 3/25/2024 3:15:00 PM |
HB 218 |