Legislature(2019 - 2020)GRUENBERG 120
02/20/2020 11:00 AM House FISHERIES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB218 | |
| HB247 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 218 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 247 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 218-SALT WATER FISHING: OPERATORS/GUIDES
11:06:51 AM
CHAIR STUTES announced that the first order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 218, "An Act relating to salt water sport fishing
operators and salt water sport fishing guides; and providing for
an effective date."
11:07:56 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS moved to adopt Amendment 1,
labeled 31-GH2192\A.1, Klein, 2/18/20, which read as follows:
Page 2, following line 5:
Insert a new paragraph to read:
"(3) signs a sworn statement identifying
whether the person is a state resident or a
nonresident;"
Renumber the following paragraphs accordingly.
Page 3, following line 8:
Insert a new paragraph to read:
"(4) signs a sworn statement identifying
whether the person is a state resident or a
nonresident;"
Renumber the following paragraphs accordingly.
11:08:05 AM
CHAIR STUTES objected to the motion, for the purpose of
discussion.
11:08:22 AM
ERIN HARRINGTON, Staff, Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins,
Alaska State Legislature, on behalf of Representative Jonathan
Kreiss-Tomkins, prime sponsor of HB 218, offered an explanation
on Amendment 1. She stated that the amendment would add the
requirement that people applying for licenses under HB 218 must
certify whether they are residents or nonresidents. She said
that it would provide a data point to help understand the
characteristics of the economic activity and participation in
this sector.
11:08:55 AM
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked why the language in the proposed
amendment read "signs a sworn statement identifying whether the
person is a state resident or a nonresident" instead of having
the requirement be proof of residency, such as a driver's
license.
11:09:22 AM
MS. HARRINGTON replied, using sport fishing license applications
currently used in Alaska as an example, that this is a sworn
document which designates whether the applicant is a resident or
nonresident, the date a residency began, and requires a
signature making the document a suitable "certification
thereof." In response to a follow-up question, she stated that
it is anticipated that in the regulatory process and design of
the proposed application, the burden would lie on the Alaska
Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G) to determine what is
considered suitable for certification. She explained that she
had used the Sport Fishing License application as an example
because it was familiar and understood to have been put in place
by ADF&G to follow a directive in statute; not necessarily that
the proposed application would look just like it.
11:10:42 AM
TOM TAUBE, Deputy Director, Division of Sport Fish, Alaska
Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), commented that similar to
Representative Vance's comment on the sworn statement, ADF&G
sees that HB 218 would already require an applicant to hold a
Sport Fishing License from the state; therefore, the applicant
is already signing an affidavit stating his/her residency
status, and it seems that there is some duplication in the
second portion of the proposed amendment.
11:11:41 AM
The committee took an at-ease from 11:11 a.m. to 11:13 a.m.
11:13:30 AM
MS. HARRINGTON stated that during the conversation that just
took place [during the at-ease] with ADF&G, it was distinguished
that the requirement for a Sport Fishing License exists under HB
218, and that the application does require a description of
residency; however, that would be a separate piece of
information living in a separate data house. The data for both
applications would be collected by ADF&G, but the goal of the
proposed amendment is to clearly understand the characteristics
of the sector of participants specific to the legislation
proposed by HB 218. She summarized that, although she didn't
want to personally put the ADF&G's support on the record, her
understanding is that ADF&G understands the distinction.
11:14:17 AM
CHAIR STUTES asked to have ADF&G offer firsthand information on
Ms. Harrington's comments.
11:14:30 AM
MR. TAUBE stated that based upon the discussion mentioned by Ms.
Harrington, ADF&G supports Amendment 1.
11:14:42 AM
CHAIR STUTES, after ascertaining that there were no further
questions on Amendment 1, withdrew her objection. There being
no further objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.
11:14:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS moved to adopt Amendment 2,
labeled 31-GH2192\A.2, Klein, 2/19/20, which read as follows:
Page 1, lines 1 - 2:
Delete "operators and salt water sport fishing
guides"
Page 5, following line 5:
Insert a new section to read:
"Sec. 16.40.287. Reports from unguided rented
boats equipped with gear for salt water sport fishing.
(a) The department shall collect information on the
rental of unguided boats equipped with gear for salt
water sport fishing, including
(1) the name and address of the person
renting the boat;
(2) the name and address of the person
offering the boat for rent;
(3) the stated reason for the boat rental;
(4) a declaration of whether the person
renting the boat used the boat for salt water sport
fishing; and
(5) the sport fishing license number of any
person who used the boat for salt water sport fishing
during the rental period.
(b) A person who rents an unguided boat equipped
with gear for salt water sport fishing shall record
the information required in (a) of this section.
(c) A person who, for compensation or with the
intent to receive compensation, offers unguided boats
equipped with gear for salt water sport fishing for
rent shall collect the information required in (a) of
this section and report the information to the
department.
(d) A person who is required to report or
collect information under this section may not provide
false information or omit material facts in a report.
(e) The board may adopt regulations under
AS 44.62 (Administrative Procedure Act) to implement
this section.
(f) In this section, "gear" includes rods,
reels, nets, gaffs, downriggers, fish finders, bait,
tackle, and fishing traps and pots."
11:15:04 AM
CHAIR STUTES objected to the motion, for the purpose of
discussion.
11:15:11 AM
MS. HARRINGTON offered an explanation on Amendment 2 to HB 218.
She explained that Amendment 2 would attempt to begin to put
some information in place to address the nebulous area of
unguided rental vessels. She explained that public perception
is that there is growth in this section of the fishing sector,
but currently there is no collected data which helps to describe
that growth or the characteristics of that sector. She stated
that the North Pacific Fishery Management Council (NPFMC) has
been discussing this topic and has an analysis from staff
looking into this issue in order to understand the sector. She
expressed that this is most important regarding halibut, as the
halibut fisheries are highly managed, regulated, and fully
allocated. She added that participation in halibut fisheries
takes place from commercial vessels, a commercial guided sector,
and from individuals using sport fishing licenses.
MS. HARRINGTON stated that the concern regarding people renting
boats to participate in unguided harvesting, is that there might
be significant growth in what is ultimately a commercial access
point to a resource that is not being quantified or described in
a way that allows for a place in the management scheme. She
added that the proposed amendment would attempt to begin
collection of baseline data to describe the unguided fishing
sector's participation in the commercial use of fisheries
resources.
MS. HARRINGTON clarified that Amendment 2 would specifically
propose "to do a few things, and there are some things
specifically that it does not propose to do." She stated that
the proposed amendment would not require enumeration of the fish
harvested from a boat; this would not be a logbook or a count.
She said that the legislation proposed under the amendment would
acquire information on businesses renting boats, and the
individuals renting those boats to confirm that they have sport
fishing licenses and determine whether they are fishing from the
rented vessels.
MS. HARRINGTON, speaking anecdotally, said that she had a
conversation recently with a well-informed member of the guided
charter sector, and this individual informed her that a business
he is familiar with just bought 10 additional vessels to add to
its fleet, for operations in a small Southeast Alaska village.
She remarked that 10 additional boats being fully utilized over
the course of a week could add as many as 80 angler days, which,
when added up across all businesses and regions in the state,
represents an unfathomable impact on a resource that is highly
regulated and managed. She added that this resource is managed
by the State of Alaska in partnership with the federal
government and through treaties with Canada. She summarized
that the legislation proposed under this amendment would attempt
to gain some understanding on what impact this sector might have
on Alaska's fisheries.
11:18:55 AM
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked why Amendment 2 shouldn't propose a
fish count in addition to collecting data on who offers the
service and the gear. She expressed that this is a limited
resource and wondered whether there should be oversight without
a count attached to it.
MS. HARRINGTON replied that the proposed amendment is intended
to be a "stair step." She expressed that ultimately the
objective would be to understand the full scope of the
participation of this sector on fisheries, including harvest
retention. She added that this would be a larger, more complex
program which would require a lot of resources to bring it to
bear, and Amendment 2 is viewed as a first step towards that.
11:20:14 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS commented that in a "perfect world
all equal," it would be ideal to know how many halibut are being
caught by the unguided charter sector. He remarked that in
deference to the administrative complexity involved in gathering
all that information, it would make sense to "start with a very
basic level of data."
11:20:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked what the additional burden would be
to require a logbook program for the unguided charter sector in
the same venue as the program proposed for guided charters,
under HB 218.
11:21:36 AM
MS. HARRIGNTON answered that one of the things Amendment 2 would
allow is for a beginning in understanding the characteristics of
this sector. As an example, she said that a boat could be
rented and used for: sport fishing through an Airbnb; a club of
some sort; a remote cabin with "a skiff pulled up in the weeds
outside of it"; or kayaks. She stated that it is a "complex
world," and the proposed amendment could be the first step in
getting to the point of understanding it well enough to
implement a rational regulatory or reporting scheme. She
explained that the scale of vessels involved in the unguided
charter sector is still unknown; it could be 10,000 vessels or
200 vessels, but gathering information of this kind could lend
itself to the next step, which could then answer the question of
implementing a logbook. She expressed that many of the
businesses in the unguided charter sector might be set up very
differently from an operation in the guided charter sector, and
there might not be a person at the shore consulting with the
client.
11:23:15 AM
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked whether the distinction between
regulating personal use and unguided charters needs to be
defined more clearly. She expressed that she thinks it is
important not to infringe on Alaskans' right to "go get
halibut," while being responsible for the allocation of that
resource which is no longer as plentiful as it once was. She
summarized that this could be a part of the stair step as
mentioned by Ms. Harrington earlier.
MS. HARRINGTON responded that she understands Representative
Vance's question and she thinks the answer to it might be "just
one half a step to the side" and the track to consider. She
recognized the importance of the point made by Representative
Vance for residents and nonresidents alike to be able to
continue harvesting Alaska's fisheries resources in a sport
fishing environment. She explained that the other two sectors
of commercial participation in the harvest of halibut, salmon,
and rockfish are well known, and they are held accountable for
the fish harvested and required to participate in processes that
allocate resources between them. She said that the processes
involved in this require intentional deliberation, tremendous
effort, negotiation, and attention to the science involved. She
added that a new business sector coming into these fisheries and
taking more of the resources, without participating in any of
the resource allocation processes, should be asked to become a
part of the discussion.
11:25:51 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP asked whether the proposed amendment had
been "run by" the Kenai River Sportfishing Association (KRSA).
He said that the lower four miles of the Kenai River are
saltwater sport fishing, and often boats are rented with guides
that bring people out for personal use dipnet fishing. He
expressed that the whole process can be complicated, and he
hadn't "even quite figured out in my head how all that happens."
He remarked that he just wanted to be sure that the proposed
amendment wouldn't do anything to inadvertently hurt operations
such as these, which provide great services that allow for more
personal use fish to be taken; in addition, the professionally
guided boats help to keep the chaos down on the river.
MS. HARRINGTON answered that KRSA had not yet been contacted
regarding Amendment 2. She explained that the proposed
amendment had been received quite recently, and the process of
working on the nuances had only recently begun.
11:27:33 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP commented that it looked to him like the
intent of Amendment 2 could be maintained while removing the
language from subsection (b), which reads: "A person who rents
an unguided boat equipped with gear for salt water sport fishing
shall record the information required in (a) of this section."
He noted that the language in subsection (c) of Amendment 2
would require the person who is receiving the money for renting
the boat to record the same information and report it to ADF&G.
He asked what the bill sponsor's thoughts on this might be.
11:29:08 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS replied that he thinks there are
aspects to the proposed amendment which need to be fine-tuned.
He remarked that he had not considered the Kenai River sport
fisheries and it would be good to investigate areas that are
half saltwater, half freshwater.
11:29:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TARR asked whether ADF&G would anticipate an
increased need for staff to address the increased workload, and
whether there should be an adjustment to the proposed fees to
accommodate for more resources. She expressed that it seems
that the proposed program would require some significant effort
from ADF&G.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS replied that ADF&G had shared its
perspective recently on what the proposed project might look
like administratively, its thoughts on what the value of data
collection is, and the end goals from a management perspective.
He expressed that he sees this as another area in which he is
excited to fine tune the proposed amendment.
11:31:39 AM
CHAIR STUTES stated that Amendment 2 could be very helpful in
understanding the scope of activity related to barebones
charters, which is particularly pertinent in halibut fisheries;
however, she expressed that she understands the language of the
proposed legislation needs fine tuning, which Representative
Kreiss-Tomkins would be working with the appropriate parties to
accomplish. She expressed that her hope is that the work on the
proposed amendment would take place in the next committee of
referral.
11:32:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS withdrew Amendment 2.
11:32:45 AM
REPRESENTATIVE TARR commented that HB 218 would be moving to the
House Resources Standing Committee after it moved from the
current committee, and she would be happy to continue the
conversation there.
11:33:11 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP moved to report HB 218, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHB 218(FSH) was
reported from the House Special Committee on Fisheries.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 247 Support Doc - Surcharge Revenue Breakdown 2.12.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 3/17/2020 10:00:00 AM |
HB 247 |
| HB 247 Transmittal Letter ver. A 2.12.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM |
HB 247 |
| HB 247 v. 2.12.20.PDF |
HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 3/17/2020 10:00:00 AM |
HB 247 |
| Marilyn Charles Board Application_Redacted.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM |
|
| HB 247 Fiscal Note ADF&G 2.12.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 3/17/2020 10:00:00 AM |
HB 247 |
| HB 247 Hearing Request Memo 2.12.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 3/17/2020 10:00:00 AM |
HB 247 |
| HB 247 Sectional Analysis - v. A 2.12.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 3/17/2020 10:00:00 AM |
HB 247 |
| HB 218 Transmittal Letter 1.28.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/18/2020 1:00:00 PM |
HB 218 |
| HB 218 Sectional Analysis 1.28.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM |
|
| HB 218 ADFG Letter of Support 1.28.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/18/2020 1:00:00 PM |
HB 218 |
| HB 218 Logbook Use Summary 1.28.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/18/2020 1:00:00 PM |
HB 218 |
| HB 218 V. A 1.27.20.PDF |
HFSH 2/13/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/18/2020 1:00:00 PM |
HB 218 |
| HB 218 ADFG Letter of Support 1.28.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/6/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 2/13/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM |
|
| HB 218 Fiscal Note 1.27.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/6/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 2/13/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/18/2020 1:00:00 PM |
HB 218 |
| HB 218 Letter of Support SEAGO 2.12.20.pdf |
HFSH 2/13/2020 11:00:00 AM HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM HRES 3/13/2020 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/18/2020 1:00:00 PM |
HB 218 |
| HB 218 Amendment #1 Rep. Kreiss-Tomkins.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM |
HB 218 |
| HB 218 Amendment #2 Rep. Kreiss-Tomkins.pdf |
HFSH 2/20/2020 11:00:00 AM |
HB 218 |