02/13/2020 11:00 AM House FISHERIES

          HB 218-SALT WATER FISHING: OPERATORS/GUIDES                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:44:57 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR STUTES announced that the  final order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO. 218, "An Act  relating to salt water sport fishing                                                               
operators and salt water sport  fishing guides; and providing for                                                               
an effective date."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:46:02 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease at 11:46 a.m.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:46:18 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR STUTES asked  whether ADF&G had any comments  it would like                                                               
to make before she opened public testimony.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:46:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TOM  TAUBE,  Deputy  Director, Division  of  Sport  Fish,  Alaska                                                               
Department of Fish  & Game (ADF&G), offered a summary  on HB 218.                                                               
He  stated   that  HB   218  would   reinstate  the   salt  water                                                               
sportfishing  guide and  operator  license  standards, fees,  and                                                               
salt water logbook reporting requirements,  which sunset in 2018.                                                               
He explained that  since that time, ADF&G has  continued the salt                                                               
water  registration and  logbook  program with  funds from  ADF&G                                                               
sportfishing license sales.  He  explained that ADF&G is required                                                               
by the federal  government to collect salt water  logbook data in                                                               
order  to meet  obligations  for various  treaties,  such as  the                                                               
Pacific Salmon Treaty  and the Pacific Halibut  Treaty, which has                                                               
left ADF&G  with an unfunded mandate.   He stated that  if Alaska                                                               
fails to  perform these obligations, the  federal government will                                                               
institute  a  logbook  program  of its  own,  infringing  on  the                                                               
state's right to manage.  He  added that logbook data is critical                                                               
to  fisheries  management  and other  ADF&G  functions,  such  as                                                               
issuing  emergency orders,  informing the  Board of  Fisheries in                                                               
its decision making processes,   and informing the local advisory                                                               
committees:     Fisheries  Disaster  Declarations,   the  Federal                                                               
Subsistence  Board,  and  the   National  Ocean  and  Atmospheric                                                               
Administration (NOAA) National Saltwater Angler Registry.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:48:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR STUTES opened public testimony on HB 218.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:48:39 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MATTHEW  DONOHOE, Fisherman,  asked whether  "barebones" charters                                                               
had been considered under HB  218.  He explained that "barebones"                                                               
means  that an  individual, either  resident or  nonresident, can                                                               
charter a vessel  and take it out without a  guide.  He expressed                                                               
that  these  charters  have  been  growing  throughout  Southeast                                                               
Alaska  and  have   an  impact  on  fisheries   that  is  largely                                                               
undocumented.     He  expressed   that  barebones   charters  are                                                               
significant  in Ketchikan  and  Yakutat, and  he  stated that  he                                                               
thinks  if  the  purpose  is to  gather  information  on  fishing                                                               
charters, then barebones charters should be investigated.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:50:33 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS   commented  that   the  situation                                                               
discussed by  Mr. Donohoe appears  to be a rapidly  growing issue                                                               
in  Southeast Alaska,  and a  large  amount of  halibut is  being                                                               
harvested through  these barebones  charters.  He  requested that                                                               
at the end of public testimony ADF&G address this issue.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:51:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
FORREST  BRADEN,  Executive  Director,  Southeast  Alaska  Guides                                                               
Organization  (SEAGO), offered  testimony in  support of  HB 218.                                                               
He  stated that  logbooks and  accounting are  important for  the                                                               
fleet, since the logbooks have been  in place SEAGO has been able                                                               
to keep track of "good numbers  coming in."  He stated that SEAGO                                                               
recognizes  the need  to meet  treaty  obligations, as  explained                                                               
previously by Mr.  Taube.  He expressed that  initially SEAGO was                                                               
slightly  concerned  about  the  fees being  doubled,  but  after                                                               
analyzing the  proposal mathematically  it was able  to determine                                                               
that the printing,  labor, and entry costs  justify the increased                                                               
fees.  He  added that when the logbooks  transition completely to                                                               
an  electronic   format,  it  is   his  understanding   that  the                                                               
Information  Technology  (IT)  costs   will  replace  the  manual                                                               
expenses for  ADF&G.  He  expressed that these logbooks  are very                                                               
important  and  SEAGO supports  efforts  for  improvement to  the                                                               
system, so long  as they are cost neutral moving  forward from HB
.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:53:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR STUTES, after  ascertaining that there was no  one else who                                                               
wished to testify, closed public testimony on HB 218.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR STUTES asked  for an explanation on the fiscal  note for HB
.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:54:28 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
RACHEL HANKE,  Legislative Liaison,  Office of  the Commissioner,                                                               
Alaska Department of  Fish & Game, offered an  explanation on the                                                               
fiscal note  for HB 218.   She pointed  out that the  increase in                                                               
fees would  provide for approximately  $400,000 in revenue.   She                                                               
referenced expenditures and said  that personal services were for                                                               
$356,000,   travel  was   $1,900,  services   were  38,100,   and                                                               
commodities were $3,500.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:55:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease at 11:55 a.m.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:55:50 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DAYNA   MACKEY,   Administrative    Services   Director,   Alaska                                                               
Department of  Fish & Game,  Office of Management  Budget, Office                                                               
of the Governor,  explained line items on the fiscal  note for HB
.  She explained that:   personal service costs are related to                                                               
existing   staff's   time   processing  the   registrations   and                                                               
conducting data entry; a small  amount of travel is necessary for                                                               
program  staff to  travel to  guide meetings  and explain  annual                                                               
modifications  to  logbooks;  services costs  are  necessary  for                                                               
printing vessel  decals and  logbooks;   and commodities  are for                                                               
postage and  mailing decals and  logbooks as a necessary  part of                                                               
the program.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:56:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS  asked Mr.  Taube whether  he could                                                               
comment on how  data is acquired from fishing  efforts related to                                                               
barebones charters.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:57:21 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TAUBE  replied that  barebones  charters  have neither  been                                                               
captured  in the  past nor  is there  a plan  to capture  it with                                                               
logbook data  through ADF&G.   He said  that this issue  has been                                                               
taken up by the North  Pacific Fishery Management Council for the                                                               
past two or  three years, and ADF&G has been  involved with those                                                               
discussions.   He expressed  that there  is some  difficulty when                                                               
trying to pin down which  vessels are being used for sportfishing                                                               
versus recreational  use or  hunting.   He explained  that, given                                                               
the definition  of sportfish guiding is  "an individual providing                                                               
assistance to  an angler," barebones  charters do not  fall under                                                               
this  definition,  as they  are  only  providing the  vessel  and                                                               
possibly some  of the  gear.   He expressed  that there  are some                                                               
hybrid operations  that provide  Global Positioning  System (GPS)                                                               
coordinates or  have a "mothership  where these little  boats are                                                               
going out with just the  private anglers, and then returning back                                                               
to the mothership."  He added  that operations like that would be                                                               
considered guided  and would be required  to have a logbook.   He                                                               
summarized that  the barebones charter operations  are treated as                                                               
private  anglers and  would  not be  captured  under the  logbook                                                               
program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS asked  how ADF&G  assesses fishing                                                               
efforts  from barebones  charters,  whether they  are treated  as                                                               
private anglers.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TAUBE replied  that this  would be  captured by  a statewide                                                               
harvest survey and,  if a barebones operation were  to go through                                                               
a  public dock  or port,  it might  also be  captured by  a krill                                                               
survey.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KREISS-TOMKINS   asked   whether   an   unguided                                                               
fisherman  who  is provided  GPS  coordinates  on where  to  take                                                               
his/her vessel to fish constitutes a guided charter.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. TAUBE  answered that  that is  correct because  the barebones                                                               
charter operator  is providing fishing assistance.   He explained                                                               
that it is a "little bit of  a gray area" because the guide isn't                                                               
physically on the vessel.  He  expressed that he does not believe                                                               
any cases  have been tried  in which  someone has been  cited for                                                               
this specific violation,  and he said he thinks this  might be an                                                               
area where the regulations could be "shored up" a little bit.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS commented  that his  understanding                                                               
of  what  happens  with  barebones  charters  is  that  providing                                                               
coordinates  and gear  is commonplace,  and  if this  constitutes                                                               
guided  fishing, perhaps  it could  be clarified  or codified  in                                                               
some  way.   He summarized  that he  thinks this  is probably  an                                                               
issue for  another day  and he appreciates  the testimony  on the                                                               
topic from ADF&G.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
12:01:07 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR STUTES  asked whether it was  the will of the  committee to                                                               
move HB  218 out of  committee, or would it  like to hold  it for                                                               
further discussion.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:01:26 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease at 12:01 p.m.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
12:01:45 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  STUTES  announced that  HB  218  would  be held  over  for                                                               
further review.