Legislature(2001 - 2002)
04/24/2002 03:38 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
CSHB 208(RES)-AQUATIC FARMS FOR SHELLFISH
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON announced HB 208 to be up for consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE DREW SCALZI, sponsor of HB 208, said the Aquatic
Farm Act was established in 1988 and it was a comprehensive
approach to licensing of farm sites. While it has worked, there
are some conflicts when people pick a site but then have to go
back to the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to get
approval. A lot of the sites conflict with personal use. This
bill makes the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) select
90 sites ahead of time, 60 of which will be for suspended
culture, such as scallops and oysters, 20 for on-bottom clamming
of little necks and 10 sites specifically for geoducks. This will
hopefully preclude the NIMBY syndrome. CSHB 208(RES) has a fiscal
note of $260,000.
He noted the New Sagaya Market in Anchorage has said it has a one
million pound clam market that it can't seem to satisfy on an
annual basis. It has to import shellfish from out of state. The
State of Connecticut has about 500,000 acres under lease and the
State of Alaska has about 500 acres under lease. This bill is
modeled after Senator Torgerson's SB 141, which has moved through
the House quicker.
SENATOR TAYLOR said Representative Peggy Wilson had received one
letter of concern from Ben Mitchell of Sitka who felt that in
reality this bill would tie up every protected cove in Anchorage
and Southeast.
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI responded that's why they want this bill.
ADF&G would be the agency to go out ahead of time to find out
where those conflicts may arise and hold public hearings ahead of
time. The 90 sites are going to be located statewide, not just in
Southeast.
SENATOR ELTON said he assumed the private sector would identify
its needs and potential sites and then come tell ADF&G what it
want to do rather than the state spending the money to identify
sites and telling the private sector where it can go. He asked
him to comment on the philosophical difference.
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI replied that the state has been trying to
use that philosophical approach since the Aquatic Farm Act passed
in 1988. An example is in Kachemak Bay, a critical habitat area,
where a person now wants to put in a little neck clam site just
below his property. He has met with resistance from his neighbors
who say it is a subsistence area or that they don't want the nets
on the beach. To him, it makes sense, because he would have
direct access to this site from his property. The part about the
private sector identifying sites is still going to go forward,
but ADF&G will say yes or no to those sites ahead of time.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON said he thought all the sites would be
nominated in the first go-round by private enterprise.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked how they will resolve the problem of DNR and
ADF&G having resident clams within an area.
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI said that is the common property issue,
which has been a roadblock. ADF&G is using the criteria now that
sites with no standing stocks would be applicable. If there are
standing stocks, the intent is through regulation to have a
common property fishery - commercial, subsistence or personal use
or a combination. The intent of this bill is not to go after
sites that have standing stocks on them. He noted, "Standing
stocks would have to be addressed separately."
SENATOR TAYLOR said his only concern is that ADF&G will have to
find areas where there are no clams so someone can raise clams on
that site. However maybe the clams are not there because the area
is not conducive to them. He stated, "It's totally self
defeating."
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI said that is a concern and HB 513 addresses
a request to do just that. There is no problem with suspended
culture; so they are basically talking about clams. ADF&G has
explained that if an area had 100 acres, it would allow a 2%
harvest out of that area. ADF&G would take all of the standing
stocks out, then that site would be available for clams. The
Constitution also says that they could allow for aquaculture to
take place provided that a certain amount of the available clams
are used to propagate the species.
MR. BOB LOEFFLER, Director, Division of Mining, Lands and Water,
DNR, said DNR has been working closely with industry and
Representative Scalzi and is pleased with the bill and the fiscal
note.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked how he dealt with conflicts in critical
habitat areas and parks.
MR. LOEFFLER said the habitat question of how the standing stocks
are allocated is an ADF&G question that he can't answer. DNR will
deal with the conflicts of land use as it has in the past by
first seeing what uses are compatible and, if they aren't, to
decide between them.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON said he heard that there is a regulation that
says you can't have a site in front of a park.
MR. LOEFFLER replied that he didn't know if that regulation
exists.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked how DNR would handle this if it was a
law, not a regulation.
MR. LOEFFLER replied that the law suggests regulation, but he
didn't think it would conflict with that regulation.
SENATOR ELTON said it seems to him that if he is in charge of
identifying numerous sites, he might be causing a lot of angst
and public outcry even thought there be no interest in some
instances by industry to do anything in the area. He asked if
that is a correct supposition.
MR. LOEFFLER replied that it is but in the final planning process
DNR could deal with that by working with the applicants and
communities to figure out where they are looking. Right now an
applicant goes out and finds a site and brings that back to the
department who might reject it and have them try it again and so
on. This would happen at the beginning of the process and be more
of a cooperative approach.
MR. GERON BRUCE, Deputy Director, Division of Commercial
Fisheries, ADF&G, said he worked closely with the sponsor and
interested parties and is appreciative of the flexibility and
effort put into the legislation, which he supports. He explained:
It will clear the brush away so to speak so that
people, when they get ready to go out and find a site
and start a farm, they have a good chance of picking a
spot that they will encounter no problems with, because
it will have been looked at [carefully] and will be
identified as a place where there aren't problems and
it will be suitable from that standpoint.
He said they intend to work very closely with industry folks to
identify areas where they think suitable sites would lie. A fair
amount of groundwork has already occurred over the years in
Southeast and Kachemak Bay.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked if the bill addresses the common use
issue.
MR. BRUCE replied that it is a separate issue and Representative
Scalzi described the approach they are taking. He said it is
possible to find areas that could be productive with the
application of existing technology that currently don't have
standing stocks.
SENATOR ELTON asked why the fiscal note from March was higher
than the one from April.
MR. BRUCE explained that as they worked through the process with
the bill, they had a better understanding of the scope of work
involved. Initially they were thinking of taking it farther than
is really necessary to accomplish the scope of the goals.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked how many of these farms exist now.
MR. BRUCE replied that ADF&G has issued about 250 permits or
leases since 1988, but not all of them are still operating.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if they are all hanging mariculture permits.
MR. BRUCE answered that they are primarily.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the only clam leases are in Kachemak Bay.
MR. BRUCE replied that clams are a recent development and most of
the sites have been focused on Prince of Wales Island.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if ADF&G has actually licensed some of
those.
MR. BRUCE replied it has.
MS. DORIS CABANA, Homer resident, said she had quite a few
reservations about this bill because in Homer there are
commercial fishermen. When they go over to the bays, all they see
are buoys. She understands that the same people are asking for
additional sites and wanted to know where it would end. She
thought that sites that failed for some reason needed to be
restored. She said she is totally against this bill because it
takes beach away from the public and fishermen who might want to
fish the area.
MS. VI HERRELL, Ph.D, said she is from the Homer and Anchor Point
area and opposed HB 208. She thought it would deny use of public
beaches and water by everyone.
MR. PAUL SEATON, Homer resident, said this bill would override
traditional habitat and state park regulations. He pointed out
that the fiscal note only covered funding for identifying sites
and they would be back in the same box of people leasing sites,
but not being able to get them permitted due to a lack of
funding.
MS. JULIE DECKER, Executive Director, Southeast Alaska Regional
Dive Fisheries, expressed support for CSHB 208(RES) because it
would resolve conflicts beforehand.
MR. PAT VEESART, Executive Director, Sitka Conservation Society,
asked why this bill is even being considered. There is already a
process by which the aquatic farming industry can apply for lease
sites suitable for shellfish farming. The state is also in the
process of creating management plan for state tidelands in
Southeast Alaska. He thought it was premature to vote on this
bill before the legislature has an opportunity to review the
planning process. He asked, "Is it appropriate and wise for the
state to be promoting an industry that leads to privatization of
public lands that are already being utilized by Alaskans?"
He questioned what will happen, under section 2(g), if the lessee
doesn't restore the site and wild stocks or shellfish back to
their original condition. He asked whether penalties and funds
for enforcement are attached.
He also asked how, under section 3(b), the state would solicit
nominations for sites from the public, whether DNR would have
adequate funds to do a thorough job communicating with the
public, and how DNR will know if a site is an established
subsistence or personal use fishery.
MR. VEESART said that CSHB 208(RES) promotes the privatization of
public resources at the expense of local economies. In Sitka, the
tidelands are already being utilized by Sitkans. He has faxed the
committee materials that demonstrate the concerns that both Sitka
and Tenakee have over shellfish mariculture.
MR. RON LONG, Director, Qutekcak Shellfish Hatchery, supported HB
208. He said that no public process would be eliminated through
this bill. All nominations will still go through coastal zone
planning review processes. The object is to eliminate the
conflicts and not trump one conflict over another. He commented,
"Within that vast amount of coastline, there is room enough for
us all to live and work together. We're not taking food off
anyone's table. We're attempting to add to the table and grow the
economic pie."
MR. LONG said there will be no exotic species brought in and the
cost of the permits will be borne by the farmer, as it is
currently. He said that 219 acres are under cultivation now in
Alaska with 50 active farms.
MR. JOHN AGOSTI, Alaska Shellfish Growers, supported CSHB
208(RES) for all the aforementioned reasons. He thought this was
a safe investment that would more than repay in years to come.
Added advantages are increased employment and economic activity
in coastal Alaska.
SENATOR WILKEN asked Mr. Loeffler if he had seen the letter from
Ben Mitchell of Sitka that Senator Taylor was referring to.
MR. LOEFFLER said he hadn't.
SENATOR WILKEN said he would send it to him so they could get a
response from DNR when it comes up in the next committee.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass CSHB 208(RES) from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was
so ordered.
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