03/14/2014 01:00 PM House RESOURCES

                HB 202-BISON DRAWING PERMIT FEES                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:06:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER  announced that  the  first  order of  business                                                               
would be HOUSE BILL NO. 202,  "An Act raising the application fee                                                               
for a drawing  permit for the hunting of bison  to $20; requiring                                                               
the game  management plan for  bison in the Delta  Junction Bison                                                               
Range Area  to include mitigation  of bison damage to  farm crops                                                               
and farm and personal property;  and authorizing the commissioner                                                               
of  natural  resources to  make  grants  to mitigate  or  prevent                                                               
damage caused by bison."  [Before the committee was Version P.]                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:06:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE stated HB 202 intends  to solve a problem that has                                                               
existed in the  Delta community since the 1950s.   The bison herd                                                               
was introduced  in the  1920s and  has grown  significantly since                                                               
the  Delta barley  project was  started  in the  early 1980s,  in                                                               
part, due  to Alaska Department  of Fish & Game's  excellent game                                                               
management.    He reported  one  unintended  consequence is  that                                                               
bison work  their way into  the barley  fields just prior  to the                                                               
crop being harvested.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE said  the only economic way to  prevent bison from                                                               
going onto  the crop fields  is to construct sturdy  high fences,                                                               
which are  expensive and costly.   Hunters enjoy the  benefits of                                                               
hunting the  bison and significant interest  exists in harvesting                                                               
bison in the limited permits issued each year.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE said he would like  to raise revenue for the state                                                               
that  does not  conflict with  the federal  funds that  the state                                                               
receives from  for fish and game  purposes.  Under the  bill, the                                                               
additional revenue raised would allow  the DNR to make grants not                                                               
exceeding the  revenues from hunting  fees and could  augment the                                                               
existing soil and water conservation  district's program that has                                                               
gradually  been fencing  off  barley fields  for  farmers in  the                                                               
Delta  area.   He offered  his belief  that HB  202 represents  a                                                               
suitable compromise  between the user  groups - the  [Delta Bison                                                               
Working Group] and the group [hunting or viewing the bison].                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:10:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  asked how  often these  bison stampede                                                               
and whether a fence will stop a stampede.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DOUG VINCENT-LANG,  Director, Division of  Wildlife Conservation,                                                               
Alaska Department  of Fish  & Game (ADF&G),  answered that  it is                                                               
probably more  an exception than the  norm for the bison  as they                                                               
tend to ramble; however, he acknowledged it does occur.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL PASCHALL, Staff, Representative  Eric Feige, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature,  replied that  he  has not  heard  of a  significant                                                               
stampede in the  nine years that he has lived  in Delta Junction.                                                               
He explained the bison have a  "laid back" demeanor so it takes a                                                               
lot of effort to  get them moving.  He agreed  that a fence would                                                               
not  stop  stampeding  bison  nor  would  most  structures.    In                                                               
response to  a question,  he anticipated  that the  grant program                                                               
would be  ongoing until  the grants  were no  longer needed.   He                                                               
didn't think hunting fees will be  reduced since the funds can be                                                               
put to good use through the ADF&G funds and the federal match.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:13:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON, referring to  Version P, asked whether the                                                               
$20 increase  in fees  is under AS  16 and goes  to the  fish and                                                               
game fund.   He noted the  requirement under page 2  of Version P                                                               
[in  Section   3]  would   amend  AS   38.05,  which   means  the                                                               
commissioner  of  DNR  is  not   obligated  to  carry  out  these                                                               
provisions unless an inter-agency transfer from ADF&G occurs.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. PASCHALL answered yes; but  specified the fee transfer is not                                                               
being  required   to  be  done  through   a  reciprocal  services                                                               
agreement.  He clarified that  the commissioner of DNR would make                                                               
the arrangement to obtain the funds through appropriation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. PASCHALL  clarified the [Delta  Bison Working  Group] process                                                               
has been  ongoing for  several years.   He  pointed out  that the                                                               
bill  represents  the  recommendations the  working  group  made.                                                               
These recommendations  were in the management  plan that recently                                                               
went  to the  Board of  Game for  approval, but  it does  require                                                               
legislative action.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:15:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER inquired  as to the [Delta  Bison] working group                                                               
membership.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PASCHALL responded  that he  didn't specifically  recall who                                                               
the  members  were  but  most  are  people  from  the  community,                                                               
including  representatives  from agriculture,  tourism,  hunting,                                                               
and a local  business owner.  He characterized  the working group                                                               
as  a fairly-well  represented group,  although  the farmers  are                                                               
also hunters so everyone had a hunting interest.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:16:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI  referred  to  page  1,  Version  P,  to                                                               
language  deleted,  "[BUT  IS  NOT LIMITED  TO]"  and  asked  for                                                               
further clarification.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. PASCHALL  answered that is  a drafting procedure that  he has                                                               
observed in other bills so "must include" has been used.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER  recalled that when the  revisor's bill was                                                               
previously brought before the floor  that as previously described                                                               
"[BUT IS NOT  LIMITED TO]" had been the standard  in the drafting                                                               
manual.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  referred to page  2, line 4,  Version P,                                                               
to paragraph  (4), which read,  "preventing bison damage  to farm                                                           
crops  and farm  and personal  property."   He asked  for further                                                           
clarification on  what could be  included besides fencing  and if                                                               
moving  animals  or  culling animal  populations  would  also  be                                                               
included.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. PASCHALL  believed any of  the aforementioned items  could be                                                               
included.  He  said the management of the bison  range is limited                                                               
to the  bison range,  which he recalled  was about  40,000 acres.                                                               
Although  it isn't  all state-owned  land, the  major purpose  of                                                               
creating the bison  range was to prevent damage  by holding bison                                                               
south of the highway prior to the harvest season.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:19:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI asked whether  the free-ranging bison are                                                               
controlled since these bison can go through fences.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. PASCHALL answered that the  working group recommended fencing                                                               
as the only option, noting that  200 animals would not be stopped                                                               
by  anything  short  of  thick  concrete or  steel  walls.    The                                                               
original intent  was to  maintain a  free-ranging bison  herd and                                                               
the recommendation  in the fish  and game management plan  was to                                                               
fence in  the farms  to keep  bison out.   He  acknowledged bison                                                               
have the ability  to run through fences, but  he characterized it                                                               
as an exception, a very rare exception.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI asked  whether  this  management is  the                                                               
standard  provision  for animal  herds  outside  the Delta  Bison                                                               
Range.   Since  there are  lots of  free-ranging animal  herds in                                                               
Alaska, he  asked whether  it is the  policy to  compensate other                                                               
private  landowners.   He  pointed out  moose  live in  Creamer's                                                               
Field [Migratory  Waterfowl Refuge]  but they  sneak out  and eat                                                               
pumpkins from landowners.  He  wondered if this policy is limited                                                               
to the bison herds or if it applies to other species.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. PASCHALL deferred to ADF&G, but  said it is a policy question                                                               
as to  whether landowners  should be compensated.   He  said that                                                               
these bison  were introduced for  recreational hunting  so people                                                               
are receiving compensation for economic  harm caused by them.  He                                                               
highlighted  another  example  would be  expenditures  the  state                                                               
makes to  eradicate northern  pike which  were been  brought into                                                               
Alaska, but found to harm other fish.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:22:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE indicated  the sponsor's intent is that  this is a                                                               
specific  mitigation measure  in a  specific area  for commercial                                                               
agriculture.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[The following exchange is verbatim.]                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR:  One email  we had received from the Salcha-                                                               
Delta Soil  and Water Conservation  District talking  about their                                                               
bison fencing  program and  that they oppose  the bill,  which is                                                               
kind of  a surprise  to me.   But I'm just  wondering do  you see                                                               
this as a  compliment to what they  might be doing and  give it a                                                               
little umph because they'll be additional dollars available.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER:   Representative Tarr, could  you clarify which                                                               
letter that is?                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR:   It's the  one from Donald Quarberg.  ... I                                                               
received it and every member of  this committee is copied on this                                                               
email and it  just has a picture attached of  their bison fencing                                                               
program.  But I'm  not sure it made it into the  packet, it is in                                                               
our email.   ... wanted  to just have  your thoughts on  that; it                                                               
seems like this  could be a great compliment to  it because there                                                               
would be additional  resources available, and so  I was surprised                                                               
by that.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PASCHALL:   Representative  Tarr, through  the  chair, if  I                                                               
could ask  one question back to  clarify for the answer  and that                                                               
is: you're  assuming that  Don Quarberg  represents the  soil and                                                               
water district?                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR:   Through  the chair, thank  you. ...  I had                                                               
received two  emails from him.   In the  first email he  did show                                                               
some  connection to  that  organization and  maybe  that was  not                                                               
accurate, so I would appreciate any clarification on that too.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PASCHALL:   Representative  Tarr, through  the  chair.   Don                                                               
Quarberg used to  be the extension agent and used  to be the soil                                                               
conservation agent for the [U.S.  Department of Agriculture] USDA                                                               
and  left those  positions numerous  years ago.   And  since that                                                               
time has  been a very vocal  opponent to agriculture in  the area                                                               
and he's also  a very ... active hunter and  chairs the ... local                                                               
Fish &  Game advisory committee.   And he has been  very vocal in                                                               
his  opposition to  any assistance  to  the farmers  in any  way,                                                               
under any  circumstances, including objecting  during discussions                                                               
about the USDA Farm bill and  the programs that are available for                                                               
agriculture  nationally.    And   the  conservation  and  reserve                                                               
program, which  interestingly promotes  wildlife habitat,  but he                                                               
refers to it as a handout to farmers, and goes on and on.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR:  Thank you.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:25:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER  commented that he personally  does not see                                                               
a  compelling reason  for this  legislation.   He doesn't  oppose                                                               
moving HB 202 out of committee, but he does so with reservation.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  remarked that  the bison  were introduced                                                               
in 1928  but the  farms were  established in  1978.   He inquired                                                               
whether this  issue is similar to  someone buying a home  next to                                                               
the airport and then complaining about the noise.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE responded  the farmers had to  sign documents that                                                               
they would not  hold the government responsible for  the bison at                                                               
that  time the  Delta barley  projects were  started in  the late                                                               
1970s.   However, the size  of the herd  has nearly doubled.   In                                                               
1978,  the herd  consisted of  250 animals  and today  it is  450                                                               
animals,   in  part,   due  to   state  management   for  maximum                                                               
sustainable yield.  He acknowledged  that the farmers do not have                                                               
direct  recourse  to the  state,  but  it  is  also a  matter  of                                                               
fairness.   There  are two  competing user  groups consisting  of                                                               
farmers trying  to make a  living and hunters enjoying  the sport                                                               
and subsistence  aspect of hunting.   He offered his  belief that                                                               
this  bill seems  like a  fair compromise  to address  an ongoing                                                               
problem.  He  pointed out that the ADF&G  study group recommended                                                               
this remedy to resolve the problem.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI  was unsure  that  this  is the  state's                                                               
responsibility.   He pointed out he  does not get money  from the                                                               
state  when moose  eat  his pumpkins  from his  garden.   He  was                                                               
unsure that  it was  the hunter's  responsibility, yet  this bill                                                               
would double  the permit  fees although he  noted these  fees are                                                               
modest.    He  maintained  he  was not  convinced  this  bill  is                                                               
necessary.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON remarked  that the  current $10  fee is                                                               
very small  so an increase to  $20 would constitute a  very small                                                               
increase to provide assistance to the farmers.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON   remarked  that   the  fee   increase  is                                                               
necessary and since it provides  matching funds he favors the fee                                                               
increases.  He  did not think DNR would  have superfluous amounts                                                               
of money  for grants,  plus he thought  the applicability  of the                                                               
other  sections will  not come  to fruition.   Thus,  he supports                                                               
moving the bill for that reason.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:31:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE moved to report  the proposed committee substitute                                                               
(CS)  for  HB  202,  Version  P,  labeled  28-LS0412/P,  Bullard,                                                               
2/24/14,  out of  committee with  individual recommendations  and                                                               
the accompanying  fiscal notes.   There  being no  objection, the                                                               
CSHB  202(RES) was  reported from  the  House Resources  Standing                                                               
Committee.