Legislature(2023 - 2024)DAVIS 106

04/24/2024 06:00 PM House WAYS & MEANS

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06:22:44 PM Start
06:23:19 PM HB194
06:58:45 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 194 CONSENSUS ESTIMATING CONFERENCES; BUDGET TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSSHB 194(W&M) Out of Committee
-- Public Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
        HB 194-CONSENSUS ESTIMATING CONFERENCES; BUDGET                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:23:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER announced  that the only order  of business would                                                               
be SPONSOR  SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE  BILL NO. 194, "An  Act relating                                                               
to  the duties  of the  Legislative Budget  and Audit  Committee;                                                               
relating  to the  Executive  Budget  Act; establishing  consensus                                                               
estimating conferences;  relating to the development  of official                                                               
information for use in preparing  the state budget; and providing                                                               
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER noted that before the  other body is SB 21, which                                                               
is not  a companion bill to  SSHB 194, and which  would amend the                                                               
Executive Budget Act  to require the Executive  Branch to provide                                                               
information  that  is  far  more   detailed  and  useful  in  the                                                               
budgeting  process.   He  said a  committee  substitute [will  be                                                               
proposed]  that would  take sections  of SB  21 and  combine them                                                               
with SSHB 194.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:24:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCABE  moved  to adopt  the  proposed  committee                                                               
substitute  (CS)  for  SSHB   194,  Version  33-LS0648\R,  Klein,                                                               
4/18/24, as a working document.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:24:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KENDRA  BROUSSARD, Staff,  Representative  Ben Carpenter,  Alaska                                                               
State Legislature,  on behalf of Representative  Carpenter, prime                                                               
sponsor, gave  the sectional analysis [included  in the committee                                                               
packet], which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Section 1                                                                                                                  
     Amends the  fish and  game fund  (AS 16.05.110  (b)) to                                                                    
     conform  to  changing  the  section  in  the  executive                                                                    
     budget act regarding budget preparation in this bill.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Section 2                                                                                                                  
     Amends  fiscal  note  requirements  (AS  24.08.035)  to                                                                    
     allow the sponsor for a  bill or a committee to request                                                                    
     a special  impact estimating  conference to  evaluate a                                                                    
     fiscal note.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Section 3                                                                                                                  
     Adds  a new  section to  (AS 24.08.035)  that allows  a                                                                    
     special  impact   estimating  conference   to  evaluate                                                                    
     fiscal notes and  prepare a new fiscal  note to replace                                                                    
     any existing fiscal note for a bill.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Section 4                                                                                                                  
     Adds to the duties to  the Legislative Budget and Audit                                                                    
     Committee  (AS   24.20.206)  to   adopt  a   method  of                                                                    
     measuring  results for  state agencies  and to  provide                                                                    
     the  measures to  the Governor's  Office of  Management                                                                    
     and Budget (OMB).                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section 5                                                                                                                  
     Amends  the  Statement  of  Policy  for  the  Executive                                                                    
     Budget  Act (AS  37.07.010)  to  include strategic  and                                                                    
     performance  plans and  setting  and measuring  program                                                                    
     and financial goals.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Section 6                                                                                                                  
     Adds  to requirements  for  the  Legislature under  the                                                                    
     Executive Budget  Act (AS 37.07.014 (a))  to review the                                                                    
     performance  and   financial  plans  approved   by  the                                                                    
     governor  and to  organize the  budget  by service  and                                                                    
     program  area and  to include  the  service or  program                                                                    
     cost and the desired measurements for each.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section 7                                                                                                                  
     Requires  the Legislative  Budget  and Audit  Committee                                                                    
     (AS  37.07.014  (b)) to  adopt  a  method of  measuring                                                                    
     results for each agency and  to provide the measures it                                                                    
     has set for  each agency to the OMB by  August 1st each                                                                    
     year.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Section 8                                                                                                                  
     Amends  requirements  of   the  Legislature  to  foster                                                                    
     results-based   government  (AS   37.07.014  (d)),   to                                                                    
     clearly identify service,  program, and financial goals                                                                    
     and desired  results and to  assign service  or program                                                                    
     measurements  for  agencies   and  to  assess  progress                                                                    
     toward  those  goals.  LB&A  will  assign  methods  for                                                                    
     measuring, reporting, and evaluating results.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Section 9                                                                                                                  
     Amends the  requirements of the Governor  under Article                                                                    
     III  Sections 1  (Executive  Power)  and 16  (Executive                                                                    
     Authority:  responsibility  for faithful  execution  of                                                                    
     the laws) of the  Constitution to approve strategic and                                                                    
     performance  plans for  each state  agency and  use the                                                                    
     financial goals  and desired  results to  implement and                                                                    
     execute  the   law.  The  Governor  shall   review  the                                                                    
     agency's  strategic and  performance plans  and approve                                                                    
     or  require  the Office  of  Management  and Budget  to                                                                    
     revise  them.  The  Governor  shall  ensure  that  each                                                                    
     agency   complies   with   the  service   and   program                                                                    
     measurements   and   achieves   the   desired   results                                                                    
     identified by the legislature.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Section 10                                                                                                                 
     Amends the  requirements of  the Governor  in preparing                                                                    
     the   Governor's  budget.   Requires   the  budget   be                                                                    
     organized  by program  or service  of  each agency  and                                                                    
     include service  and program  cost and  desired results                                                                    
     for each. Each service  and program expenditure request                                                                    
     must include detailed unit cost  and performance of the                                                                    
     service or program  expenditure. Changes the Governor's                                                                    
     budget   submission  deadline   for  a   newly  elected                                                                    
     governor from December 15 to January 15.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Section 11                                                                                                                 
     Requires the  Governor's budget to  include projections                                                                    
     for  three  succeeding  fiscal years  rather  than  ten                                                                    
     succeeding years.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section 12                                                                                                                 
     Requires the  proposed expenditures  in the  budget not                                                                    
     to exceed estimated revenues  for the succeeding fiscal                                                                    
     year.  Operating expenditure  may  not exceed  official                                                                    
     estimates  of recurring  revenue.  This provision  will                                                                    
     allow  non-recurring  revenue  to   only  be  used  for                                                                    
     capital projects or for savings.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section 13                                                                                                                 
     Adds  a new  section  of the  Executive  Budget Act  to                                                                    
     require the  Governor to  submit an  alternative budget                                                                    
     plan for the next fiscal  year, and projections for the                                                                    
     next  three  succeeding  fiscal  years,  based  on  the                                                                    
     average price  per barrel for Alaska  North Slope crude                                                                    
     oil for sale  on the United States West  Coast over the                                                                    
     preceding ten  years. Requires  the Governor  to submit                                                                    
     an alternate  budget plan based  on $70 per  barrel for                                                                    
     Alaska North Slope crude oil.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Section 14                                                                                                                 
     Adds  a new  section of  law that  creates a  consensus                                                                    
     estimating  process.  Consensus estimating  conferences                                                                    
     are  created  in  the   legislature  for  economic  and                                                                    
     demographic    forecasts,   revenue    estimates,   and                                                                    
     expenditure estimates for  education, criminal justice,                                                                    
     social services,  and retirement costs.  The membership                                                                    
     of   each  conference   consists   of  principals   and                                                                    
     participants.  Principals  of  the conference  are  the                                                                    
     director  of the  legislative finance  division or  the                                                                    
     director's designee. Participants  include staff of the                                                                    
     house  and   senate  designated  by  the   Speaker  and                                                                    
     President, and participants  appointed by the governor.                                                                    
     Each  conference shall  develop "official  information"                                                                    
     within its  area of responsibility that  the conference                                                                    
     determines, by consensus, is needed  for the purpose of                                                                    
     preparing   the   state   budget.  Provides   for   the                                                                    
     procedures  of  the estimating  conferences,  including                                                                    
     public   meetings.    Conferences   develop   "official                                                                    
     information"  based  on   current  law.  Following  the                                                                    
     regular  session of  the  legislature, each  conference                                                                    
     shall  convene  in  a  final   session  to  revise  the                                                                    
     official  information  of  the  conference  to  reflect                                                                    
     changes  made in  law. Adds  special impact  estimating                                                                    
     conferences  that can  be requested  by the  Speaker of                                                                    
     the House or the President  of the Senate to evaluate a                                                                    
     legislative proposal.  The official information  from a                                                                    
     special impact conference will serve as a fiscal note.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Section 15                                                                                                                 
     Adds  to the  duties of  the Office  of Management  and                                                                    
     Budget  in AS  38.07.040 shall  assist the  Governor in                                                                    
     meeting   the  requirements   of   this   Act  in   the                                                                    
     development  of  performance  and financial  plans  and                                                                    
     coordination and analysis of  state agency goals issued                                                                    
     by the legislature.  OMB is required to  submit a five-                                                                    
     year capital  improvements plan  to the  legislature by                                                                    
     December 15 each year that  must include estimated cost                                                                    
     of construction and  maintenance, the estimated project                                                                    
     timeline, potential funding  sources, and justification                                                                    
     for   each  project.   OMB  is   required  to   provide                                                                    
     electronic  data used  in building  its  budget to  the                                                                    
     legislature at least seven  days before the legislative                                                                    
     session. OMB  is required to submit  to the legislature                                                                    
     by December 15 each  year an annually updated five-year                                                                    
     capital  improvements program,  which must  include the                                                                    
     estimated  cost of  construction  and maintenance,  the                                                                    
     estimated project timeline,  potential funding sources,                                                                    
     and justification for each project.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Section 16                                                                                                                 
     Adds to requirements of state  agencies in AS 37.07.050                                                                    
     for  each state  agency  to include  in its  strategic,                                                                    
     financial, and  performance plans progress  made toward                                                                    
     achievement  of service,  program, financial  goals and                                                                    
     desired  results  issued  by the  legislature,  and  to                                                                    
     submit these  plans to the  legislature by  December 15                                                                    
     each year.  [T]he results  of the  measures set  by the                                                                    
     legislature  and achievement  of program,  service, and                                                                    
     financial goals.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section 17                                                                                                                 
     Adds a new section of  law (AS 37.07.055)[.] Boards and                                                                    
     commissions shall  submit a financial plan  by December                                                                    
     15th to OMB, Legislative  Finance, and the legislature.                                                                    
     Each plan  must include  the requested budget  for next                                                                    
     fiscal year,  expenditures made during  previous fiscal                                                                    
     year, expenditures authorized  for current fiscal year,                                                                    
     explanation of  services, need  for services,  and cost                                                                    
     of  services, number  of  total  positions employed  or                                                                    
     under   contract,    including   those    for   capital                                                                    
     improvements. Each board and  commission must include a                                                                    
     report of  receipts and  expenditures for  the previous                                                                    
     fiscal year,  an estimate of  receipts for  the current                                                                    
     fiscal   year,  and   an  estimate   of  receipts   and                                                                    
     expenditures  for  the  succeeding  fiscal  year.  Each                                                                    
     board  and  commission  must identify  any  legislation                                                                    
     required  to  implement  financial  plans.  Boards  and                                                                    
     commissions shall  submit an annual operations  plan by                                                                    
     a  date  prescribed  by  OMB.  OMB  shall  review  each                                                                    
     operations   plan   for    alignment   with   statewide                                                                    
     priorities,   appropriations,  planning   methods,  and                                                                    
     legislative authority,  approve or require  revision of                                                                    
     the operations  plan. OMB  shall assist  in preparation                                                                    
     of  financial plan  and OMB  may prepare  financial, or                                                                    
     operations  plans if  a board  or  commission fails  to                                                                    
     transmit  either plan  by an  OMB  specified date.  OMB                                                                    
     shall  compile  and  submit a  summary  of  boards  and                                                                    
     commissions  financial  plans  by December  15th  to  a                                                                    
     governor  elect.   Budget  requests  from   boards  and                                                                    
     commissions shall include  identification of objectives                                                                    
     intended for the  program and problem or  need that the                                                                    
     program  is  intended  to  address,  an  assessment  of                                                                    
     achievement of  original objectives  of the  program, a                                                                    
     statement  of costs,  performance, and  accomplishments                                                                    
     in  each of  last  four fiscal  years,  a statement  of                                                                    
     number and types of persons  affected by the program, a                                                                    
     summary statement  of the number and  cost of personnel                                                                    
     employed  or   under  contract  over  the   last  three                                                                    
     completed fiscal years, an assessment  of the effect of                                                                    
     the program on the economy  of the state, an assessment                                                                    
     of  the how  the  policies meet  the  objective of  the                                                                    
     legislature,  an analysis  of services  and performance                                                                    
     estimated to be  achieved over the life  of the agency,                                                                    
     a  prioritized  list of  the  activities  the board  or                                                                    
     commission would expect  to perform if the  life of the                                                                    
     agency  were to  be continued.  Boards and  commissions                                                                    
     shall  develop methods  for  measuring agency  results.                                                                    
     OMB  shall   report  quarterly  to  the   governor  and                                                                    
     legislature   on   operations   of   the   boards   and                                                                    
     commissions.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Section 18                                                                                                                 
     Adds   to  requirements   for  the   governor's  budget                                                                    
     recommendation  (AS  37.07.060)  for  the  governor  to                                                                    
     identify  three to  five statewide  priorities, include                                                                    
     agency  performance plans  that implement  the service,                                                                    
     program, and financial  goals, recommended measures for                                                                    
     determining weather  (sic) those  goals have  been met,                                                                    
     and  an assessment  of weather  (sic) prior  year goals                                                                    
     have been met.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Sections 19, 20                                                                                                            
     Adds  to program  execution  (AS 37.07.080)  conforming                                                                    
     language  to  include   strategic  plans  and  service,                                                                    
     program,  and   financial  goals  to   agency  programs                                                                    
     execution requirements.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Section 21  Adds to programs  execution to  require OMB                                                                    
     to review  strategic plans to  determine that  the plan                                                                    
     is consistent with the goals  issued by the legislature                                                                    
     and approve or revise those plans.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Section 22, 23                                                                                                             
     Conforming  language to  change agency  operating plans                                                                    
     to strategic plans.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Section 24                                                                                                                 
     Adds  a  new section  to  this  Act (AS  37.07.085)  to                                                                    
     create  agency Performance  Plans and  Financial Plans.                                                                    
     Each  agency  shall   develop  annual  performance  and                                                                    
     financial [plans]  consistent with the  strategic plan.                                                                    
     Plans  must be  submitted to  Legislative Finance,  the                                                                    
     Senate, and  the House by  December 15th of  each year.                                                                    
     The Performance plan must include  a description of the                                                                    
     agency's  program structure  and any  proposed changes,                                                                    
     identification of  each program,  constitutional and/or                                                                    
     statutory authority, a  program purpose statement which                                                                    
     describes the  services provided, the  customers served                                                                    
     by the program, the benefit  or intended outcome of the                                                                    
     program. Each  plan must identify  performance measures                                                                    
     which  contribute  to  progress  towards  the  agency's                                                                    
     strategic  plan,  identify  goals and  objectives  that                                                                    
     each performance measure  corresponds, identify results                                                                    
     for each performance measure over  the past four fiscal                                                                    
     years,  and  identify   performance  targets  for  each                                                                    
     performance  measure for  the  succeeding fiscal  year.                                                                    
     Each  plan must  include revenue  and expenditures  for                                                                    
     each  program   for  the   prior  four   fiscal  years,                                                                    
     breakdowns  of   revenue  and  expenditures   for  each                                                                    
     program,  estimates  of  revenue and  expenditures  for                                                                    
     current  and  next  fiscal year,  budget  requested  to                                                                    
     carry out  proposed plans of  the agency  in succeeding                                                                    
     fiscal  year,   expenditures  authorized   for  current                                                                    
     fiscal year,  expenditures proposed for  the succeeding                                                                    
     fiscal  year, number  or  positions  employed or  under                                                                    
     contract, cost of services provided  by each program, a                                                                    
     report  of receipts  of  agency  for expenditures  made                                                                    
     during  prior  year,  estimate for  current  year,  and                                                                    
     estimate   for    next   year,    [i]dentification   of                                                                    
     legislation   required   to  implement   the   proposed                                                                    
     financial  plan. OMB  shall  assist  in preparation  of                                                                    
     financial  plan  and  OMB  may  prepare  financial,  or                                                                    
     operations  plans if  a board  or  commission fails  to                                                                    
     transmit  either plan  by an  OMB  specified date.  OMB                                                                    
     shall  compile  and  submit a  summary  of  boards  and                                                                    
     commissions  financial  plans  by December  15th  to  a                                                                    
     governor elect.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Section 25                                                                                                                 
     Amends Section  AS 44.66.050(a):  Legislative Oversight                                                                    
     to include reference to the  new requirements of boards                                                                    
     and commissions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section 26 Repeals AS 37.07.014 (f).                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Section 27                                                                                                                 
     Effective  date  for Section  7  (LB&A  to set  program                                                                    
     measures) is July 1, 2025.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Section 28                                                                                                                 
     Provides an  effective date  of July  1, 2024,  for the                                                                    
     remainder of this Act.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:38:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARPENTER stated  he calls  this an  Executive Budget  Act                                                               
rewrite  even   though  that  isn't  the   title  nor  completely                                                               
accurate.   He said he  thinks of the  Executive Budget Act  as a                                                               
standard  operating  procedure  that   defines  how  the  state's                                                               
government is supposed to communicate  and operate when there are                                                               
disagreements  between the  two branches  on data  or assumptions                                                               
used in  financial or budgeting  matters and fiscal notes.   That                                                               
is crafted  in the  Executive Budget Act  currently but  it's not                                                               
working well currently,  he opined.  This bill,  he continued, is                                                               
to help get to a better management framework.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:40:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GROH said he appreciates  the sponsor's efforts as                                                               
the bill is  management oriented, likely to  generate more useful                                                               
data,  will help  the state  run better,  and will  help fix  the                                                               
state's structural deficit.  However,  he argued, Section 12 is a                                                               
statutory spending limit,  a limit on what  the governor's budget                                                               
can propose,  not what is  appropriated.  He argued  further that                                                               
it is discriminatory   it's a  limit only on the operating budget                                                               
when all  the evidence has shown  that the things that  spurt the                                                               
most in high  revenue years are the capital  budget and permanent                                                               
fund dividends.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:43:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DONNA ARDUIN,  Staff, Representative Ben Carpenter,  Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, clarified  Section 12.  Current  law, she explained,                                                               
says proposed expenditures may not  exceed estimated revenues for                                                               
the succeeding fiscal year.  She  said Version R would add to the                                                               
balanced  budget   requirement  that   the  operating   budget                                                                  
expenditures for  agency and statewide operations    must balance                                                               
with  recurring revenue  sources.   The  reason that  is tied  to                                                               
operations  and not  capital, she  advised, is  that nonrecurring                                                               
revenue  can be  used for  capital projects,  which is  something                                                               
that other states do.  Version  R, she pointed out, would require                                                               
that in  the case of  one-time funds,  savings would be  used for                                                               
capital  projects.    Revenue  estimating  conferences  in  other                                                               
states,  she  related,  consider  unusually high  oil  prices  as                                                               
nonrecurring revenue that cannot be spent on agency operations.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARPENTER stated  that rather  than a  spending limit,  he                                                               
describes it  as a better  way to communicate the  budget between                                                               
the two branches.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
6:45:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRAY said  he is  philosophically concerned  that                                                               
establishing  performance   plans,  operation   plans,  financial                                                               
plans,  and strategic  plans for  boards  and commissions  sounds                                                               
like  death by  bureaucracy  because somebody  would  have to  be                                                               
working  on all  these plans  all the  time yet  not actually  be                                                               
doing anything.   He submitted  that a board or  commission might                                                               
execute plans but  not achieve its goal or a  board or commission                                                               
might struggle with executing plans but achieve its goal.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARPENTER responded  that as  a former  operations officer                                                               
and  person  who generated  the  plans  within the  military,  he                                                               
understands where Representative Gray is  coming from.  He agreed                                                               
it's possible that  organizations can wing it and do  well.  But,                                                               
he maintained, in  "our" bureaucracy that is few  and far between                                                               
and  not having  a  strategy or  plan will  result  in waste  and                                                               
inefficiency.   He said  performance measures  are done  once and                                                               
then reviewed  periodically to ensure  an organization  is headed                                                               
on the  right path.   This is  already supposed to  be done  to a                                                               
certain  extent, he  pointed out,  but it  is hit  or miss  as to                                                               
whether it is being done.   Nobody enjoys the budget subcommittee                                                               
process,  he continued,  but if  performance measures  were being                                                               
done and  communicated to  the subcommittee,  it would  make that                                                               
process much  more effective  than what  it is now.   He  said he                                                               
thinks the [proposed  CS] narrows down and  focuses the Executive                                                               
Budget Act so that it is  useable and effective rather than broad                                                               
and unclear.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRAY  inquired about  the  number  of boards  and                                                               
commissions that this would apply to.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER answered that he  doesn't know the overall number                                                               
of  boards and  commissions, but  that the  Executive Budget  Act                                                               
applies to all of Alaska's boards and commissions.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ARDUIN  related that  when  presenting  the [Alaska]  Sunset                                                               
Commission,  Ms.  Broussard showed  180  entities  of the  state,                                                               
which  includes   boards,  commissions,  and  divisions   of  the                                                               
departments.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRAY  drew attention  to  [Version  R], page  24,                                                               
Section   25,  [lines   6-8],  which   state,  "(a)   Before  the                                                               
termination, dissolution,  continuation, or reestablishment  of a                                                               
board  or  commission  under  AS 08.03.010  or  AS  44.66.010,  a                                                               
committee  of  reference  of  each  house,  which  shall  be  the                                                               
standing committee  of legislative  jurisdiction".   He expressed                                                               
his  fear that  a  couple  of standing  committees  might be  the                                                               
jurisdiction for  a lot of  boards and commissions, which  at the                                                               
beginning  of  session  could  mean  that  those  committees  are                                                               
required  to hold  many hearings  that include  testimony by  the                                                               
public and  department commissioners.  He  inquired whether there                                                               
is a mechanism  to ensure that one committee isn't  going to have                                                               
to do 25 boards and commissions.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER  replied that the  Division of  Legislative Audit                                                               
currently does sunset commissions  on boards and provides reports                                                               
to the committees  of jurisdiction.  He said two  other pieces of                                                               
legislation  could help  improve state  government wholistically:                                                               
[one  bill  would  establish]  a sunset  commission  that  has  a                                                               
responsibility to periodically review  all the departments of the                                                               
government,  and [the  other bill  would direct]  the "regulatory                                                               
review  division"   within  the  Legislative  Budget   and  Audit                                                               
Committee's  purview to  help committees  of jurisdiction  review                                                               
changes  in  regulations over  time  so  that the  committees  of                                                               
jurisdiction would not have to do  all the heavy lifting.  So, he                                                               
continued,   getting  the   standard  operating   procedures  set                                                               
correctly so that they're useable  and mean something, along with                                                               
these other  pieces that help  with the process, would  help with                                                               
not being overwhelmed at the committee level.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ARDUIN specified  that Section  25  is language  that is  in                                                               
current law.   She said  the only change  in this section  is the                                                               
reference to the new section of the Executive Budget Act.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:52:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRAY  submitted  that   since  this  is  required                                                               
already,  it probably  means it  isn't being  done.   He said  he                                                               
appreciates what  the bill is  designed to  do, but thinks  it is                                                               
asking members  of committees to care  and he isn't sure  that it                                                               
can be legislated to care.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ARDUIN advised  that the  sections  requiring the  strategic                                                               
plans, performance  plans, and financial  plans are not  the type                                                               
of strategic  plans seen  in other venues.   Requirements  are in                                                               
the bill for  what the agencies need to do  with these plans, she                                                               
said,  and   [these  sections]  are   designed  to   provide  the                                                               
legislature with information for  both policy and budget planning                                                               
that the legislature doesn't have now.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER added  that an entity that  should be influential                                                               
in  whether  [legislators]  care   is  the  electorate,  and  the                                                               
electorate must step in and help with this problem.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:54:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCABE said  he likes  Section 2  because it  has                                                               
long been  needed.  He  said he will  have an amendment  for that                                                               
section  because  he  is  tired  of  having  fiscal  notes  being                                                               
weaponized against bills by the departments.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER asked whether  Representative McCabe would object                                                               
to  the bill  being amended  in  the next  committee because  the                                                               
committee  is going  to take  public testimony  and move  out the                                                               
bill today.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE [did not object].                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCKAY  inquired  about   the  next  committee  of                                                               
referral.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. ARDUIN answered that it is the House Finance Committee.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:56:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARPENTER opened  public testimony,  then closed  it after                                                               
ascertaining that no one wished to testify.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:56:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER removed his objection  to the motion to adopt the                                                               
proposed CS  for SSHB 194,  Version 33-LS0648\R,  Klein, 4/18/24,                                                               
as  a  working  document.   There  being  no  further  objection,                                                               
Version R was before the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:56:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE  moved to report  the proposed CS  for SSHB
194, Version  33-LS0648\R, Klein,  4/18/24 out of  committee with                                                               
individual  recommendations and  the  accompanying fiscal  notes.                                                               
There being  no objection,  CSSSHB 194(W&M)  was reported  out of                                                               
the House Special Committee on Ways and Means.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:57:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARPENTER  noted  that without  objection,  the  committee                                                               
gives  permission  to  Legislative  Legal Services  to  make  any                                                               
necessary technical and conforming changes to CSSSHB 194(W&M).                                                                  

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