Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/23/1999 03:25 PM House L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 167 - REGULATION OF MOBILE HOME DEALERS Number 0964 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced the committee's next order of business is HB 167, "An Act relating to mobile home dealers." Number 0972 PETER TORKELSON, Researcher for Representative John Cowdery, Alaska State Legislature, came forward to present HB 167 on behalf of the bill sponsor, Representative Cowdery, who was also in attendance. Mr. Torkelson stated HB 167 was designed to remedy what they believe is an untenable situation under existing law. Used mobile home dealers are required to be licensed and bonded. The question is: To whose benefit? The mobile homes sold by used dealers carry no warranty; the rule is buyer beware. Mr. Torkelson noted the committee has been provided with copies of numerous binding documents that the buyer must sign in order to close the purchase. In no fewer than five places the buyer is reminded that there is no warranty on the product he or she is purchasing. It is worth noting not one claim has been made against a licensee or the licensee's bond under the existing law. Indeed, it is difficult to find any compelling reason for regulating a used mobile home dealer who offers no warranty. MR. TORKELSON noted they have been informed that most of the used mobile home dealers are relatively small operators. To these operators, the cost or perhaps unavailability of bonding can mean the difference between staying in or going out of business. It can mean the difference between operating a legitimate business or operating one that merely exists on the margins. Mr. Torkelson indicated it a worthy goal to protect small business and promote a vibrant community of competition, which is what HB 167 does. House Bill 167 relieves the small operator from the burden of bonding against a claim that will never come. If the current statutes suppress competition with burdensome bonding fees, there will probably be someone who supports keeping the statutes in place. Mr. Torkelson noted they do not support the current structure; they have put HB 167 forward to correct this situation and relieve small business. He asked for the committee's support. Number 1066 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned the cost of the $50,000 bond. MR. TORKELSON noted the cost would vary with the experience of the person applying for the bond and the risk perceived by the bonding agent. They have received indication the bond can cost up to $1,500. Mr. Torkelson commented some people, because of a past bankruptcy, might not even be able to attain a bond. He asked if they were going to eliminate some people from this business simply because they could not attain an affordable bond. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI indicated the sponsor statement relates that there are currently 14 licensed mobile home dealers statewide and 10 of these would no longer need licensing if this legislation was passed. She asked if there are only four dealers throughout the state who sell exclusively new mobile homes. MR. TORKELSON replied the current wording of the bill would require those dealers selling both new and used mobile homes to maintain licensing and bonding. It is their understanding from information received from the Division of Occupational Licensing that of the 14 licensed mobile home dealers in the state, only 4 of those deal in new mobile homes. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG confirmed there were no further questions for the sponsor's staff. The committee proceeded to take teleconference testimony. Number 1177 GALE KINCAID, Owner/Operator, Triad Sales Company, Incorporated, testified next via teleconference from Anchorage in support of HB 167. He noted his family has owned and operated Triad Sales Company in Anchorage for the past 10 years. He asks the committee's support of HB 167 for the following reasons. All used mobile homes are sold as is, where is, with no warranty intended or implied. His company has never had a problem because this clause is spelled out in several places in its documents. He does not believe a bond is needed when there is no liability to the dealer or protection to the consumer. The bond does help reduce competition because most small dealers cannot obtain one. Currently the state does not enforce HB 436 and many dealers today are forced to operate without a bond [HB 436, Nineteenth Legislature, "An Act relating to purchase and sale of mobile homes by mobile home dealers; to mobile home titles; and providing for an effective date." Misstated on tape as "House Bill 346"]. Mr. Kincaid reiterated his support for HB 167. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI noted it was nice to hear Mr. Kincaid's voice, indicating that they have known each other for a while. She referred to Mr. Kincaid's statement that all used mobile homes are sold without a warranty and that with Mr. Kincaid's company they are always sold as is, where is. Representative Murkowski asked if anyone selling used mobile homes offered a warranty, to Mr. Kincaid's knowledge. Number 1266 MR. KINCAID replied none he knew of. He indicated the only one that might is Carey Homes, Incorporated; they sell new and used, and are probably one of the best in town. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked if he knew whether or not Carey Homes included a warranty with those used mobile homes the company sold. MR. KINCAID answered that he believes Carey Homes usually owns and finances the product itself, noting Representative Murkowski could ask Mr. Carey. He commented this is a lot different than himself or other used dealers who are selling the mobile homes for individuals. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Kincaid if he had ever had any claims or problems, for example, from a buyer for a refrigerator failing in two days or two months. MR. KINCAID responded they have never had a claim. They state it very well: they sell a used mobile home, they never owned it, never lived in it, they don't guarantee it. They only guarantee that when the buyer opens the door and moves in, all the appliances will be working. After that there is no guarantee because "you can't tell on used." CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if Mr. Kincaid took an earnest money or down payment when someone buys a used mobile ["motor"] home from his business. Number 1355 MR. KINCAID answered in the affirmative, noting it starts the contract: earnest money, deposit to purchase based on terms or conditions of the purchase. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted this is similar to a real estate deal. MR. KINCAID agreed; earnest money is received and then typing the contracts and closing the sale proceeds. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned how the financing is usually handled for those kind of homes. MR. KINCAID commented that although the banks in Anchorage say they finance mobile homes, most don't. Ninety percent of his company's sales are owner-financed. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned how this works: Does Mr. Kincaid take his goods on consignment or something? MR. KINCAID answered they consign it like a real estate company: They find a buyer, go to the owner of the mobile home, the owner accepts the deal, Mr. Kincaid's company types the contracts, follows with a bank escrow, the new buyer pays the bank. He continued, "The bank pays you, and you, as an owner and financer." Mr. Kincaid noted that is 98 percent of their business. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said his reason for the questions is that a bond is one of the provisions of this licensing law. Usually the bond is a surety bond to protect against the breach of fiduciary duty. Number 1434 MR. KINCAID noted most banks handle the money. They have an escrow account, naturally, but it is all spelled out in their paperwork: the money goes for down payment and it is refundable if it is not financed. Mr. Kincaid commented he has never gone to court over this problem in 35 years in this business. He does not know of any other used mobile home dealers who have had the problem. They used to be required to have a $10,000 DMV [Department of Motor Vehicles] bond. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned what this was about. MR. KINCAID replied they handled titles - they had a $10,000 DMV bond to transfer titles, et cetera. They are no longer required to have this bond because they cannot transfer titles since DMV does not recognize them as a dealer. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY confirmed that they were speaking of only mobile homes, not motor homes. Number 1529 GEORGE REED, Co-Owner, Lov-Bud Homes, testified next via teleconference from Anchorage. He noted he was co-owner of his company with his wife. They sell approximately 12 used mobile homes a year. Mr. Reed commented, as Mr. Kincaid had said, they sell the homes for people like a Realtor. They advertise and sell people's homes, handle the paperwork and try to make a business out of it. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI repeated her previous question to Mr. Kincaid. She asked Mr. Reed if his company has any warranties on any of the used mobile homes they sell. MR. REED answered in the negative. Their paperwork stipulates that the home is sold without guarantee/warranty. There is a comment on the contract which says that the appliances will be working at the day of closing; they do not warranty that the appliances will work the next day. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked how long he has been in this business. MR. REED replied he has been selling mobile homes in Anchorage since 1985. In response to Representative Murkowski's further question, he confirmed they had had no claims on their business. Number 1650 BEN MARSH, Executive Secretary, Alaska Manufactured Housing Association (AMHA) testified next via teleconference from Anchorage. The AMHA is an association of businesses that includes [mobile home] dealers and mobile home courts. Mr. Marsh personally does not own anything, does not sell mobile homes, and does not own any mobile home courts. He works for the association and reports the sense of the association in accordance with the instructions he receives. At the association's April 15 [1999] meeting, it adopted a resolution indicating, first, that the association did support and had requested HB 436 because it was felt in 1996 that there was no regulatory or control agency overseeing mobile home dealers. Mr. Marsh noted there is a great deal of control and oversight for real estate licensees but he indicated there was no such control over mobile home dealers because mobile homes are not real estate. Mobile homes are quite different in the sense that a loan on a mobile home is not guaranteed with a deed of trust. Mr. Marsh commented a chattel mortgage is used instead, although he is not very knowledgeable about that. Mr. Marsh said it was felt at that time [1996], and he guesses the association still feels the same way, that there needs to be someplace a person who feels wronged in some way can resort to. The bond would serve that purpose; it would guarantee ethics and honesty on the part of the dealer. They recognize, and think everyone does, that there is nothing saying "Joe Blow can't come in off the street and make himself into a mobile home dealer by putting an ad in the paper and he may not know a dog-darn thing about selling mobile homes or protecting buyers." Number 1800 MR. MARSH said he knows these gentlemen present do; they protect the buyers because they are experienced, but there are no requirements for experience, education, or any knowledge of the field. Therefore, AMHA thought it was wise to have such protection. Mr. Marsh indicated the bond is a consumer protection device, it is not intended to penalize dealers in any way. The April 15 resolution says it is resolved that AMHA opposes the adoption of HB 167. The president of the association is there and can elaborate. Mr. Marsh indicated that concluded his testimony. [The Alaska Manufactured Housing Association resolution adopted April 15, 1999, read: WHEREAS, House Bill 436 was enacted into law in 1996 and became AS 08.67.010, and was amended by HB 33, Twentieth Legislature, in 1998, and WHEREAS, AS 08.67.010 sets forth the requirements for registration of Mobile Home Dealers, including application, bond, and fee, and WHEREAS, AS 08.67.010 was enacted into law as a consumer protection measure, since mobile home dealers were not regulated nor licensed as real estate licensed agents are required to be, and WHEREAS, Alaska Manufactured Housing Association, speaking for the mobile home industry, asked for and supported HB 436 as originally adopted, and WHEREAS, HB 167 has been introduced in the current legislative session, and would exempt mobile home dealers selling used units only from the requirements of AS 08.67.010 and, WHEREAS, enactment of HB 167 would removed important consumer protection features from the law, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that AMHA opposes the adoption of HB 167.] Number 1882 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE questioned if the association had heard complaints from people "sort of stuck with bad products" regarding the used mobile homes. MR. MARSH replied they have not. He doesn't think the association is the place where someone would make such a complaint. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE wondered if Mr. Marsh had heard of anything or any anecdotal evidence, et cetera, from the association members. MR. MARSH answered he has not; there has been no such report made to him. REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS noted the AMHA resolution says that HB 167 would remove important consumer protection features from the law and it does not sound like the consumer has had many complaints over these years regarding mobile homes. Representative Harris asked Mr. Marsh to elaborate on what kind of consumer protections would be removed. MR. MARSH responded it may be that the consumer protections which are built into the law have headed off complaints from buyers. He noted that buyers of mobile home are in many cases, he thinks, unsophisticated and the only source of their loan is the seller. Mr. Marsh doesn't know if there has been any occasion where people have been unhappy with their purchases or not. The purpose of HB 436 was to prevent such problems. Number 2018 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted there are apparently 14 licensees; he questioned how many are members of AMHA. MR. MARSH replied that four [mobile home] dealers are association members. MR. KINCAID commented that his company is a member as well, bringing the total to five. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned if they were all present and Mr. Marsh could count them. The chairman confirmed it is Mr. Marsh's testimony that five mobile home dealers are members of AMHA. He questioned if those five mobile home dealers sell new homes, used homes or a combination. MR. MARSH answered that the latest member is (indisc.), it is basically a used dealer. Mr. Marsh noted it is Mr. Kincaid. MR. KINCAID commented he had just joined again. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned if Mr. Kincaid had voted on the April 15 resolution. MR. KINCAID indicated he had not been present for that meeting because it had been his wife's birthday. REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO commented to Mr. Marsh that he would read the actual statutory language regarding the bond and the action on the bond [AS 08.67.050 and .060]. Representative Halcro noted, "It talks about committing fraud or making fraudulent representations in the course of doing business as a dealer, the person may bring an action in the appropriate court against the dealer and upon the bond." Therefore, if a person is selling used mobile homes with no stated or implied warranty, Representative Halcro concluded there is really no way a person could be making fraudulent representation or committing fraud. He asked Mr. Marsh to speak to this point. MR. MARSH replied he could not speak to that point. Representative Halcro is speaking of policies the dealers themselves have; Mr. Marsh is only the association secretary and he just views the meetings of the members, he does not get involved in the members' actions. Number 2190 MAC CAREY, President, Alaska Manufactured Housing Association; President, Carey Homes, Incorporated, testified next via teleconference from Anchorage in opposition to HB 167. Mr. Carey indicated his main reason for opposing the legislation is that it pretty much eliminates the whole reason why the original law came into being. He noted Carey Homes was established in 1952; he has been president for the past nine years. Carey Homes is a fixed location where people can view new homes. Mr. Carey said he probably has a very large stock of used homes at any given time - they sell quite a few used homes. He indicated people find it easy to locate and contact his business, and have known the business for quite some time. Mr. Carey noted he is also somewhat associated with Glencaren Court ["Glencaren Mobile Home Court"] and Nanook Mobile Home Court. He indicated he has acted as the assistant manager or property manager for Nanook Mobile Home Court for quite some time. Mr. Carey commented these places are pretty easy for an individual to seek out if he/she has complaints and, yes, they have heard of quite a few complaints in the past. Since the legislation was passed they have not heard as many complaints, simply because it is very easy to convey to someone that there is a bond a person can attach to. MR. CAREY noted the complaints range from earnest money held to unpaid taxes to misrepresentation. He does not remember the topic of warranty being the big issue of the time in the conception of HB 436 because, as was mentioned, it is usually the new homes that have warranties, not necessarily the pre-owned homes. The big thing was the accountability of the sales representative. The other side of that is to be able to obtain such a bond. Someone has to be in pretty good standing before an insurance company would actually issue the bond. Currently, Carey Homes pays $1,500 a year for its bond, and it does not feel it is a big stumbling block for someone to go into business to sell pre-owned homes. For the most part, someone can do this straight out of his/her house with a home phone number, a couple signs and some "yellow pages" advertising. In some cases, a person could only have business cards. Mr. Carey said probably the biggest concern is when people close cash transactions in their own offices. It is true, "buyer beware," but Mr. Carey said they believe consumer protection ought to be out there. Number 2427 REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO noted he would put the same question to Mr. Carey he had put to Mr. Marsh. He commented, "The statute says that if the dealer commits fraud or is guilty of making fraudulent representations, the consumer can take the dealer to court and force action upon the bond. But if you're selling a used product that you have no warranty stated or implied, ... in my mind there'd be no way for fraudulent representation if there's no warranty on the thing. Can you speak to that?" MR. CAREY answered, "Sure. You know, we can't take for granted there won't be any warranty. There may not be a warranty according to the purchase agreement but a used home is a used home..." [TESTIMONY INTERRUPTED BY TAPE CHANGE] TAPE 99-45, SIDE A Number 0001 MR. CAREY continued, "...(indisc.) but the bigger issue is there could be $2,000 worth of taxes owed, there could be a title that they haven't - that they didn't produce. And all these things are very, very important." REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO noted Mr. Carey had mentioned he was aware of complaints. He asked Mr. Carey to somewhat summarize those complaints and perhaps speak to the committee about who those complaints were directed at. Representative Halcro questioned if it was Mr. Carey's customers complaining or someone else's. Number 0055 MR. CAREY responded he most certainly does not "have any wings on his back;" he would be lying if he said he had not had a customer call him on an issue or two. Mr. Carey noted they do try to correct anything they do have out there. He is sure anyone in business does have a customer who calls after the fact; the business does have to take care of these customers. However, in response to who these customers call upon, Mr. Carey said some of these individuals are not in practice today; some are, but not necessarily in this room today. With the caveat that when someone calls or comes into the office, only one side of the story is being heard, Mr. Carey noted earnest money is a very common complaint. He added that taxes is a very important issue, as he thinks everyone there would agree, because the Municipality of Anchorage ["city"] doesn't even file UCC [Uniform Commercial Code] liens to record their taxes more often then not. He indicated two women had "mentioned just such" at the recent AMHA meeting. Mr. Carey noted there are any number of questions on the titling. It is true that DMV did not title for a short period of time but it does title presently; Mr. Carey noted it is very common for him to receive calls from people who say they do not have a title and who were told there isn't a title. Mr. Carey indicated this was the result of a very unknowledgeable individual handling the transaction, and these people are stuck with a $30,000-$40,0000 home they cannot sell because they do not have title. He commented these people have to go through the procedure of title search, et cetera. Number 0194 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG mentioned the committee would be hearing from Ms. Reardon and indicated she would be asked this next question as well [Catherine Reardon, Director, Division of Occupational Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic Development]. The chairman questioned if Mr. Carey thinks AMHA can justify the existence of Chapter 67 [AS 08.67] and this particular licensure in "this light of cost reduction." The chairman asked Mr. Carey if he thinks it has done its intended purpose, noting he takes it that Mr. Carey opposes the statute's repeal. The chairman clarified he was referring to the legislation enacted by HB 436, and questioning if it has done any good. MR. CAREY indicated he is very much opposed to the repeal of this chapter. It was a goodwill gesture on the association's part, which really represents the largest portion of their industry, to take it upon themselves to contact the state to improve their own industry in the interests of consumer protection. He noted they thought it was a good bill then and they feel it is a good bill now [HB 436, AS 08.67]. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY, the bill sponsor, informed Chairman Rokeberg he had to leave to attend another meeting. He noted he doesn't think he can add much to this and hopes the committee moves the legislation. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG confirmed there were no further questions for Mr. Carey, noting there is one more witness. Number 0322 WILLIAM FERGUSON, Owner, Alaskan Discount Mobile Homes, testified next via teleconference from Anchorage in support of HB 167. His business is currently in its third year of operation in Anchorage. They strictly sell used mobile homes and they broker them. He indicated he feels the existing law hurts the largest group of employment providers in the public sector, small business, while at the same time greatly enhancing larger businesses' abilities to control monopolized bargaining. That begs the question, "What about the consumer?" Mr. Ferguson said that the bond is in favor of the state. It should be apparent to voters and legislators alike that the law in its present form is just for the benefit of large businesses through the elimination of competition. Mr. Ferguson said that he enjoys competition because it keeps him and his sales staff sharp. No claims have been filed since the law was enacted. He informed the committee he knew of two businesses which have failed as well as those jobs the businesses provided. The law as it exists, has not helped and should be changed, as HB 167 suggests. Mr. Ferguson emphasized that protection for the consumer is provided in the court system. He said, "A $50,000 bond for taxes, I mean the average tax on a mobile home, for a used one, a[n] older one is what - $300 a year." Mr. Ferguson did not believe a $50,000 bond was necessary or relative. As Mr. Kincaid pointed out, all of their documents specify, "as is", "where is", "no warranty written or implied," in more than one location. Number 0522 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned the cost of Mr. Ferguson's bond. MR. FERGUSON answered that the cost of his bond is $2,400 per year. He noted that he has not been in business long enough nor is his business large enough to receive a lower rate. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG also asked the cost of Mr. Kincaid's and Mr. Reed's bonds. MR. KINCAID stated that his bond costs $1,500 per year. MR. REED thinks his bond cost is quoted at $2,000. MR. KINCAID commented, "If you look at the licensees you won't find too many people licensed and bonded." CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced that concluded the teleconference testimony and invited Ms. Reardon forward. Number 0611 CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic Development came forward. She informed the committee the division administers this licensing program directly; it is one of the programs without a licensing board. The program has been in effect for only two years. Ms. Reardon explained that this law went into effect as the result of legislation that passed very rapidly; she had not had the opportunity to become as familiar with some of the issues. She commented that although it is true that the bond is in favor of the state, her interpretation of the statute is that the bond is for judgments against the licensee. It is one of the two things that the bond is for, judgments entered against the applicant. Ms. Reardon assumes that to mean that the state holds the bond, but would give it to someone who proves that there has been a judgment - that the court has rendered a judgement against the dealer. Number 0720 MS. REARDON expressed concern with a program that would be left with four licensees. The program would still operate under the state's self-sufficiency mandate. She explained this is the reason there is a zero fiscal note. The division's costs would not be affected; the same amount of revenue would be raised from fewer people. Ms. Reardon informed the committee that the cost to operate the program during fiscal year (FY) 1999 to date, April 1, was $500. Last year, FY 1998 , the program's first year, the cost was $4,900. However, she noted that ordinarily there are higher costs the first year because staff time is spent doing applications, advertising, et cetera. Although Ms. Reardon expected the costs to remain low - around $1,000 to $2,000 - the exception would occur when someone appealed a license denial or action was taken against a person. This results in legal costs which could become a pressing issue since there would only be four people to spread the costs among. On the other hand, 14 people to spread the costs among is not very many either. Ms. Reardon noted that if a new mobile home has a warranty, the owner of that mobile home would have less need for the bond than the owner of a used mobile home. Ms. Reardon commented that if there is not a purpose for the bond, perhaps no one should have to obtain one; new mobile homes are probably sold with warranties. On the other hand, perhaps the purpose of the bond was aimed more at title and escrow theft. In that case, Ms. Reardon did not know whether the new or used mobile homes posed the most risk. Number 0891 REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked if the division managed any other licenses with as few as four licensees. MS. REARDON replied no. There are two programs with fewer than 20 licensees. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI commented, then, this would be a departure to maintain something for so few entities. MS. REARDON replied yes, although a program without a board that has fewer than 20 licensees is almost the same. She pointed out that it is dependent upon whether there is legal action. She noted that not having a license is a Class A misdemeanor. Number 0940 REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO noted mention of the title and indicated it is possible that is where some of the problems may occur when a mobile home is sold. He questioned that when a dealer sells a mobile home, the dealer would not receive payment until the bank receives the title, if the sale is financed. He asked if there are normal checks and balances in place there. MS. REARDON said she was not certain that there are. If a bank is loaning money, the bank would look out for its own interests and would probably provide checks and balances. The testimony seems to indicate that in the mobile home industry there are cash transactions. She compared it more to buying an expensive used car. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG clarified the testimony was that on used mobile homes most are either self-financed or cash [transactions]. That means they have separate escrow accounts and there is a promissory note involved in the chattel mortgage. REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO questioned the average cost of a used mobile home. MR. CAREY said that the typical mobile home in Anchorage, a 1976- 78 model, would sell for about an average of $22,000. Of course there are mobile homes at the lower and higher ends of the scale. In response to the chairman's question, Mr. Carey said an average mobile home is roughly 900 square feet. Number 1065 MR. REARDON commented she is unsure of the committee's intent. If HB 167 is not going to move out of the committee that day, the other two pages of statute could be reviewed to determine that they cover what was intended. Ms. Reardon indicated that perhaps an attorney could determine if the bond is protecting what it is intended to protect, if there is a concern regarding whether the bond is really there to cover items like escrow and title problems. She further indicated it might be fine, since the division has never had an action. Ms. Reardon explained the division's job with the existing law is not to take away a license from anyone who might be operating unfairly. The division's job is simply to hold the bond and give it over once a court judgment has been provided. Therefore, there has not been much exploration under what conditions someone might lose in court and the bond would have to be given over. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked how many mobile home dealers there are in Alaska. MS. REARDON answered that she only knows how many mobile home dealers are licensed, the 13 or 14 which have been discussed here. Noting the division had done newspaper advertising, she strongly suspects there are people out there who are not licensed. Number 1142 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG commented that testimony on HB 33 [Twentieth Legislature] when they received the exemption from this indicated there are many who are not registered. He asked how many people had licenses in the first year. MS. REARDON said that she believes there were under five - two or three. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG commented the division spent $4,900 and had two or three licensees in 1998. He asked if that was correct. MS. REARDON said, "I believe, at the end of '98, that sounds likely to me; [a] $500 license fee." CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated he appreciated Ms. Reardon noting how little was spent, but the division had not done anything. MS. REARDON pointed out that this fiscal year would be the year in which 10 more are licensed by only spending $500. Number 1200 REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked if Ms. Reardon saw value to licensing the mobile home dealers. MS. REARDON indicated her initial orientation had been in favor of eliminating the licensing program. Although after hearing the testimony, she is no longer sure. She said that she always wishes that there are consumer groups to be at the table to testify as to whether the protection is desired or necessary, but she knows that is not really practical. Ms. Reardon concluded, "But I kind of feel like either don't have any licensing or have licensing for all the mobile home dealers." CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG commented he thinks that is really the primary issue before the committee. He believes that passage of HB 167 would destroy the entire license; then the issue becomes whether the program should even exist. The chairman indicated he had had some question about HB 436, the existing law, when it originally passed. He noted he is concerned, particularly because of past testimony that very few people had signed up, although it sounds like more are. The chairman asked if there have been any complaints filed or claims against the bonds. MS. REARDON stated that they have not received any judgments to pay the bond on. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned that there is no sunset provision on this chapter. MS. REARDON said that is correct because only licensing board programs have sunsets. The programs the division manages are never examined. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG informed the teleconference participants, the committee and the committee, that he would give everyone the weekend to justify the existence of the entire chapter. House Bill 167, if passed, would destroy the licensing. The chairman indicated the teleconference participants should work together to assist the committee on this issue. If this issue cannot be settled by the committee's next meeting on Monday afternoon [April 26], the sponsor would be asked to modify the bill and repeal the entire chapter because that has the same effect. Chairman Rokeberg questioned if the teleconference participants understood. MR. MARSH answered that they understand very well. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated he would appreciate any other comments from the committee members and hopes the sponsor's representative understands what the chairman is attempting to do here. MR. TORKELSON indicated he believes the sponsor would be in agreement with "shaving the whole head." [HB 167 WAS HELD]
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