Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120
03/21/2017 01:00 PM House MILITARY & VETERANS' AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Presentation: Alaska Forget Me Not Coalition | |
| HB165 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| *+ | HB 165 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 165-STATE PERSONNEL ACT: VETERANS
1:44:51 PM
CHAIR TUCK announced that the final order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 165, "An Act relating to hiring for positions in
state service based on substitution of military work experience
or training for civilian work experience or training
requirements."
1:45:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH, as prime sponsor, presented HB 165. He
pointed out that Alaska has more veterans per capita than any
other state; more than 200 veterans return to the state every
month. He stated that veterans report that finding a job is the
main barrier to transitioning from military to civilian life.
He stated that HB 165 would reduce the potential of veterans
missing job opportunity that they are qualified to fill.
1:46:18 PM
ROBERT EDWARDSON, Staff, Representative Justin Parish, Alaska
State Legislature, explained HB 165 to the committee, on behalf
of Representative Parish, prime sponsor. He stated that the
proposed bill would add to the State Personnel Act, which is
found under AS 39.25.150. The proposed legislation would set
procedures currently used by the Department of Administration
for accepting the substitution of military knowledge, skills,
and abilities as qualifying for state classified positions to
meet minimum qualifications. The bill would also allow the
Department of Administration to establish a procedure or
regulation to substitute military experience for minimum
qualifications in some cases.
MR. EDWARDSON assessed that the bill would change the hiring
process, which involves six separate stages for state classified
services: recruitment, application, pre-interview screening,
interviews, reference checks, and hiring. He explained that the
first three stages are where veterans may be inadvertently
chased away for some recruitments. An agency will advertise a
vacant position, listing the requirements for the position, the
desired traits and characteristics for the ideal applicant, and
minimum qualifications. He expressed that a veteran may decide
not to apply for a job because he/she feels that he/she does not
meet the minimum qualifications, although he/she may have traits
of an ideal candidate.
MR. EDWARDSON offered an example from his life as a 20-year
coast guard veteran and a state hiring manager. He remarked:
Kate was a non-commissioned officer in the U.S. Coast
Guard. As one of her collateral duties, Kate was
required to be a law enforcement boarding officer.
She attended the maritime law enforcement academy at
the federal law enforcement training center in
Charleston, South Carolina. She then completed ... a
rigorous training process at her home unit, then
performed numerous cases a federal law enforcement
officer.
What knowledge, skill, or ability did this collateral
duty give to Kate? Well, in school, ... in her duty,
she would have learned authority and jurisdiction in
general: how laws, regulations, policies, and
procedures, and that sort of thing relate to the
overall framework of government interaction and
government intervention into people's lives. She
would have ... learned defensive tactics and the use
of force, which ... isn't just dressing up in the red
gear and beating each other up. You learn to maintain
effective working relationships - officer presence,
just how you present yourself, without speaking verbal
commands - and clear communication. She'd learn
criminal investigation, which for many state jobs
would correspond to research techniques, writing
protocols, and independent adjudications for a lot of
the different departments ... [wherein] people apply
for ... permits or they apply for some sort of
consideration somewhere. People who've had this
experience would be ideal for that.
MR. EDWARDSON said part of being a law enforcement boarding
officer is being an instructor, which requires effective written
and oral communication and making presentations. He noted that
he has been a manager in the Department of Natural Resources,
and he compared the example to a Natural Resource Specialist II.
He expressed that people like Kate would not qualify for the
job; however, he offered his assessment that they would do very
well in the job.
1:51:36 PM
MR. EDWARDSON stated that the bill would not take jobs away from
non-veteran Alaskans, but would add otherwise qualified veterans
to candidate pools to be interviewed. Currently, candidate
pools have many highly qualified and capable non-veterans, and
HB 165 would put veterans in the same hiring pool as other non-
veterans. He stated that there is a zero fiscal note from the
Department of Administration. He said that regulations would be
required. He conveyed that the committee has helped make
transition easier for veterans by filling gaps in law, and he
added that HB 165 would fill another gap. He urged the
committee to support the proposed legislation.
1:52:46 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX said that the bill looks familiar, and she
asked if a similar bill had been introduced previously.
1:53:01 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH answered, "Not to my knowledge."
MR. EDWARDSON responded that there is a legislative research
report [included in the committee packet], which loosely
summarizes related legislation. He proffered that HB 2 had
already been through the committee this year, and three years
ago a Senate bill assisted military members regarding
professional licensing.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX concluded that the Senate bill is what she
was thinking of.
1:53:40 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked if there is anything that currently
prevents a veteran from having his/her military experience
counted in an application.
MR. EDWARDSON answered that the Division of Personnel currently
follows [Standard Operating Procedure] (SOP) 04, which allows
people to use their military experience to meet minimum
qualifications. He offered his understanding that SOP 04 does
not allow people to substitute military experience for
qualifications.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked what documentation is used to
verify or document the military training a veteran has received.
MR. EDWARDSON answered that there are a number of different
documents for different services. There are requirements for
filing systems, both paper and electronic, to keep training
records. He explained that within the Coast Guard, there is an
"administrative remark sheet 3307," which supervisors often use
to document certain types of experience - both good and bad. He
added that awards can be used as documentation.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether the administrative remark
sheet 3307 is a state or military form.
MR. EDWARDSON answered that it is a Coast Guard form found in
the Pay, Personnel, and Procedures manual.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER offered his understanding that DoD has
worked to address this issue and has tried to improve service
records for the military resume to make them more transferable
and comprehensible to civilian employers. He asked if that
effort has had its desired effect.
MR. EDWARDSON responded that other than in times of war, the
Coast Guard falls under the Department of Homeland Security, not
DoD directives. He said that over the years there have been
several "plain language" writing guides to reduce the use of
[military] jargon and acronyms.
1:56:32 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ asked whether the intention of HB 165
is to ensure that transferrable military experience and skills
can substitute for minimum qualifications in applying for state
jobs.
MR. EDWARDSON answered that is one of the goals. He explained
that the Department of Administration currently uses a standard
operation system that allows people to use military credit to
meet minimum qualifications; the proposed bill would set this
practice as law instead of policy, making it unchangeable by
policy decisions. He added that the intent of the bill is to
allow applicable military experience to substitute for minimum
qualifications.
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ stated that she supports the intent of
the proposed bill to ensure that transferable skills are
recognized as important. She commented that there have been
clear examples in the past of translation problems, and she
emphasized the importance of ensuring that military experience
is translated in a way that is understandable to people in
civilian management. She explained that she has tried to decode
what someone's experience in the military meant in a civilian
context. She stated that the task can be challenging. She
mentioned that she wants to make sure that HB 165 would not
allow "seat time" in a non-related field to substitute for
actual relevant skills and experience. She asked whether Mr.
Edwardson is confident that the substitution of skills would not
qualify a person for a job for which he/she might not have the
skills.
MR. EDWARDSON responded that first draft of the bill contained
"more meat" than the draft by Legislative Legal and Research
Services, which he claimed is the superior version. He
remarked:
The way that it's drafted allows the professionals -
the Department of ... Administration, Division of
Personnel - to set those policies, to write those
regulations. And I think they would probably be the
better ones to answer how you would avoid doing that,
[to] ... make sure that it is ... authentic
experience.
MR. EDWARDSON said that after working with the Coast Guard for
22.5 years, he affirmed that the record keeping is rigorous. He
conveyed that research and documentation is not "puffed up." He
said, "Does it happen? Perhaps, but I think it would be pretty
rare."
2:00:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH added that the bill stipulates that the
military experience or training should meet or exceed the
position requirements. He stated that merely being present
would not be adequate, unless mere presence were the initial
requirement.
MR. EDWARDSON said that the school mentioned in a previous
example gives "ace credits." He explained that the schools
often have third parties verify the authenticity and rigor of
experience.
2:01:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ clarified that she is not concerned
that people in the military are not earning authentic experience
or that there would be inflation of the experience in the
records. She explained that her concern is that the experience
is clarified and relevant [to the job].
2:02:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if "seat time" means that a person
was present and sitting on a seat.
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ clarified that she used the term "seat
time" to refer to the time a person worked or served in the
military, but not [to refer to] the quality or characterization
of the work.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX pointed out that the statute talks about a
veteran or a former prisoner of war. She asked how someone
could be a prisoner of war and not be a veteran.
2:03:24 PM
MR. EDWARDSON noted that it is written that way multiple times
within the State Personnel Act.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX repeated her question.
2:03:42 PM
DAN WAYNE, Attorney, Legislative Legal Counsel, Legislative
Legal and Research Services, answered that he doesn't think a
person could be a prisoner of war and not a veteran.
2:04:05 PM
CHAIR TUCK proposed that a contract employee with DoD could be a
prisoner of war.
2:04:41 PM
VERDIE BOWEN, Director of Veterans Affairs, Office of Veteran
Affairs, Department of Military & Veterans' Affairs (DMVA)
responded that it is possible to be a prisoner of war without
being a veteran. He pointed out that when all the family
members and civilians that were held by the Japanese during
World War II were released from captivity, they were eligible
for the "defense of the Philippines medal" and were provided
prisoner of war status and rights.
2:05:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX offered her understanding that
international treaties do not allow making a prisoner of war
work. She asked how a prisoner of war could develop experience
as a prisoner of war without working.
MR. BOWEN offered his understanding that the experience would
come before or after their prisoner of war status. He said that
a lot of things are written in international treaties that are
violated when people become prisoners of war. He remarked, "We
don't have to go far back in time, we could just go to the Hanoi
Hilton and think of what those prisoners of war went through
during their time there." He mentioned his belief that after
the first gulf war there were prisoners of war. He offered his
recollection of seeing a female major speak before the U.S.
Senate about the issues she experienced during her time in
captivity. He explained that there had been expeditious
violations of the Geneva Convention.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX conveyed her belief that prisoners of war
have gone through horrendous experiences. She questioned
whether those experiences translate to civilian jobs.
MR. BOWEN responded that he would not know how to translate that
experience either.
2:07:33 PM
CHAIR TUCK announced that HB 165 was held over.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| Alaska Forget Me Not Coalition Presentation to MLV Cmte 3.21.17.ppt |
HMLV 3/21/2017 1:00:00 PM |