Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124
03/29/2017 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing(s): | |
| HB155 | |
| HB129 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 155 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 129 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
HB 155-AK MENTAL HEALTH TRUST LAND EXCHANGE
2:06:34 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON announced that the next order of business
would be HOUSE BILL NO. 155, "An Act authorizing a land exchange
in which certain Alaska mental health trust land is exchanged
for certain national forest land and relating to the costs of
the exchange; and providing for an effective date."
2:06:55 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR moved to adopt the committee substitute (CS) for
HB 155, Version 30-LS0335\U, Bullard, 3/8/17, [as the working
document].
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON objected for discussion purposes.
2:07:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DAN ORTIZ, Alaska State Legislature, prime
sponsor of HB 155, noted there have been no changes from the
original bill that he presented to the committee on 3/27/17.
2:08:10 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON requested a summary of the changes from the
original bill that are made by Version U.
CAROLINE HAMP, Staff, Representative Dan Ortiz, Alaska State
Legislature, on behalf of Representative Ortiz, sponsor, first
provided a sectional analysis of HB 155, and then an overview of
the changes in Version U. She explained that section 1 in
Version U discusses the purposes of the Act. Section 2 details
that the parties are subject to these provisions and not AS
38.05.801. Section 3 describes the lands included in the
proposed trade, and she said maps depicting those lands
accompany the bill. Section 4 provides a timeline for the
proposed exchange and prioritizes which lands would be exchanged
at what point in time. Section 5 provides the process that will
occur should the final appraisal find the values of the exchange
not to be equal. Section 6 provides circumstances that will
need to occur in order to make the Act effective. Section 7
provides an effective date.
MS. HAMP next discussed the changes between the original bill,
Version 0, and the CS, Version U. She explained the original
bill is dated 2/27/17, and Version U is dated 3/8/17. On
3/3/17, the sponsor received updated maps from the federal
legislation. [To comport with federal legislation], Version U
takes out parcel NB-2, which was a map in the original
legislation, and changes the acreage. Pages 3, 4, and 5 [of
Version U] detail the changes that are made in regard to the
maps and the acreage. In response to Co-Chair Josephson, she
noted that a summary of changes was provided in the committee
packet.
2:10:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER asked how much was the change in
acreage.
MS. HAMP replied that the total acreage changed from 18,274
acres to 18,313 acres exchanged for federal lands. For the
Alaska Mental Health Trust, the acreage changed from 20,580
[acres] to 20,645 [acres].
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER inquired whether the changes are in the
state's favor.
MS. HAMP responded the changes were made to accommodate the
lands [the state] has so they were accurate to the maps that are
now had. It does not necessarily mean the value the state
incurred is more or less, it will be an equal value exchange.
2:11:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND noted that committee members don't have
the aforementioned maps before them.
MS. HAMP answered the maps are on the Bill Action Status Inquiry
System (BASIS).
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON offered his understanding that these are the
adjustments to the maps that [were previously] provided to
committee members.
MS. HAMP replied the new and most recent maps that go with
Version U have written at the bottom, "Map Revision Date - 03-
03-2017".
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ asked Representative Drummond whether she
has the [3/3/17] maps.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND responded that there are no maps in the
supporting documentation for this meeting.
MS. HAMP advised it should be titled "additional documents
maps".
2:13:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH noted the land exchange would be about
20,000 acres and inquired what an acre of forested land would be
worth versus an acre of unforested land.
MS. HAMP deferred to Mr. Wyn Menefee.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH opined it is a shame that there is not a
successful timber industry on the [Tongass National Forest]. He
said he is curious as to what the economic value would be for
the timber resource included within the exchange.
WYN MENEFEE, deputy director, Alaska Mental Health Trust Land
Office, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Natural
Resources (DNR), responded the value of the timber depends on
whether it is old growth or spruce or cedar - different values
are associated with the different timber types. He offered to
provide the committee with a chart showing these assessments,
saying he doesn't have the chart with him and so cannot provide
the exact amount per acre at this moment.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH restated his question.
MR. MENEFEE answered he doesn't have this information with him
and doesn't want to provide an incorrect answer.
2:15:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER offered his understanding that the
Alaska Mental Health Trust ("the Trust") has many different
types of land. Some has mining on it and some can be developed
with subdivisions. He asked whether any of the land included in
the bill is for anything other than timber.
MR. MENEFEE replied that when the Trust receives lands the lands
do not have any restriction for the type of use. The Trust
could use the lands for subdivisions, mining, or timber harvest.
Trust [managers] maximize the revenue and try to use the highest
and best use to produce the best revenue.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER inquired whether all the aforementioned
aspects are taken into account or just the timber aspect when
trying to figure out the value of what is being traded. He
presumed there are many ways to measure the economic value of
one piece of property versus another piece and said he would
like to know how this particular one is being done.
MR. MENEFEE responded that two different values are in the
federal legislation. The United States Appraisal Standards must
be followed, he said, as well as another national appraisal
standard. It takes into account the highest and best use that
the appraiser feels the land can be used for and then values it
accordingly. So, if the appraiser sees that timber is going to
be the highest and best use, it will be valued for the timber.
If the appraiser sees that subdivision development is the
highest and best use, it will be valued for that. He explained
that the reason Ms. Hamp said the acreage is not critical is
because that is not representing what actually gets traded at
the end. After the appraisals are done it will be seen what
makes the equal value in land exchange and the acreages will be
adjusted accordingly.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER inquired whether this is done through an
agency.
MR. MENEFEE answered the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) has to
contract, or write the appraisal instructions, and the Alaska
Mental Health Trust Land Office pays for it. [The work] is done
by people who are approved to do federal appraisals.
2:18:40 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE offered his understanding that there is
HB 155 and a similar federal concurrent resolution [in
Congress], and that moving HB 155 is going to be contingent on
the federal legislation passing. He offered his understanding
that Version U is just topographical, and said that in his
opinion [the change] in acreage is miniscule. He asked whether
he is correct in understanding that passing HB 155 is part of a
synergy that is going on.
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ affirmed Representative Westlake's summary.
2:19:38 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON opened public testimony on HB 155.
2:19:53 PM
DAVID LANDIS, mayor, Ketchikan Gateway Borough, testified that
the Ketchikan Gateway Borough has repeatedly and consistently
supported the land exchange legislation referenced in HB 155
because it is a win-win-win proposition. It is a win for the
region's timber industry, he said, because it is important for
Southeast Alaska's economy to provide a consistent supply of
timber for those jobs that are directly involved in the industry
as well as the affiliated businesses that are vendors to the
timber industry.
MAYOR LANDIS stated the exchange is also a win for the citizens
of Ketchikan and the over one million tourists who will visit
Ketchikan each year because there are Trust lands to be
exchanged directly behind Ketchikan on Deer Mountain. There are
also Trust lands to be exchanged on Gravina Island across
Tongass Narrows, he pointed out. These are major viewsheds for
the community and the Deer Mountain parcel also has very popular
trails used by locals and visitors. There is very little
support in Ketchikan to log these areas, he related, and the
swap would protect these lands and provide other lands much more
suitable for timber sales.
MAYOR LANDIS further said the exchange is also a win for the
Alaska Mental Health Trust because Ketchikan, like other
communities, has citizens who suffer from mental illnesses,
substance abuse, and other disorders. The Trust needs revenue
to fund those efforts and this [proposed] land exchange would
provide that revenue. This exchange, he said in conclusion, is
as close as one can get to a win for everyone involved.
2:22:02 PM
CHERYL FECKO testified in opposition to HB 155. She said she
has worked, recreated, and harvested local foods from Prince of
Wales Island and feels strongly about maintaining her quality of
life. While she understands why Ketchikan and Petersburg are
opposed to logging by the Trust in the areas that are important
to them, she said she doesn't understand why people feel there
would be no opposition to exchanging that land for parcels on
Prince of Wales Island near the communities of Naukati, Hollis,
and other places on the island. She said the Trust's recent
[timber] sale in the Control Lake area, a popular recreation
site in central Prince of Wales Island, is a perfect example of
the in-your-face clear-cut logging that would concern the people
of Ketchikan and Petersburg if it were done in their backyard.
MS. FECKO noted that Prince of Wales Island has experienced
extensive logging over the last 50-plus years and now the
challenge is to retain a quality of life and a healthy island
ecosystem as the public land on Prince of Wales Island continues
to be carved into private- and state-owned lots. She is not
opposed to the timber industry or to the needs of the Alaska
Mental Health Trust, she added, and hopes a way can be found to
do things a bit differently. She said she would like the bill's
sponsor, the House Resources Standing Committee, and the people
of Ketchikan and Petersburg to know that she, too, cares about
the place where she lives.
2:24:08 PM
DENNIS WATSON, mayor, City of Craig, testified in support of HB
155. He said it is important for Prince of Wales Island, the
timber industry, and the island's largest sawmill. Many jobs
are tied up with this and this [land] exchange has been on the
table for years. There has been plenty of time for working on
the parcels that were finally selected for the exchange, he
continued, and it is time to move forward with getting this
issue settled.
MAYOR WATSON said Viking Lumber's sawmill in Klawock is huge
because it has a year-round payroll in an area where jobs are
really scarce. Contracts with the sawmill provide millions of
dollars. He noted he has lived in Craig for 42 years and worked
at the sawmill during his first two years. The sawmill is an
important part of the economy, he said, and passing HB 155 is
very important to the mill's existence. Actions by the last
federal administration cut back on the amount of available
federal timber and right now the exchange is a stopgap measure
to keep the sawmill and the island's economy going.
2:26:31 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH stated he shares Mayor Watson's interest
and conviction regarding the importance of the timber industry
in Southeast Alaska and the Craig community. He asked whether
there are other avenues or venues in which the legislature can
be supportive of an expanded timber industry in the state.
MAYOR WATSON replied that a state forest is needed and said the
infinite litigation and ridiculousness of trying to get anything
done has been an impediment. He allowed that in the beginning
he thought a state forest concept was foolish, but now he thinks
it is the only way and he hopes the state legislature and
administration will follow up on it because it is unknown what
will happen with federal administrations.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH said he supports the [proposed] land trade.
2:27:40 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON offered his understanding that there are
multiple state forests in southern Southeast Alaska. He asked
whether Mayor Watson wants a larger state forest.
MAYOR WATSON responded yes, it is a large selection that is
being talked about so there would be an ample supply of timber.
Most of the people following this issue, he continued, believe
the transition that the last federal administration wanted to do
immediately is about a 20-year process. A miniscule amount of
timber is being taken today as compared to the days when 600
million [board feet] was being cut. It should be spread around
a lot more than it presently is, he said, but the current focus
is on what can happen right now and hopefully this exchange is
the bridge to the future. State forests are available right
now, he said, but they are a small, patchwork quilt.
2:28:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND noted she has been to the area where
Mayor Watson lives and said it is a spectacular place. Drawing
attention to the maps provided by the sponsor, she observed that
the two [proposed] areas on Prince of Wales Island are the
Naukati and Hollis areas. She inquired whether these two areas
would benefit the sawmill.
MAYOR WATSON replied he doesn't know if anybody from Naukati
works at that, but the answer is yes that both areas are very
important to making this happen. Both areas are very high-value
timber selections, he continued, and both are places that have
had timber harvest off and on through several years. Hollis is
one of the original spots where the long-term [timber] contracts
started some 50 years ago.
2:29:35 PM
REBECCA KNIGHT testified that her opposition to HB 155 is based
on a variety of grounds. A far better alternative, she said, is
a federal buyout of the Alaska Mental Health Trust's lands
included in the proposed exchange. Such a buyout would satisfy
the Trust's mission to improve the lives of beneficiaries as
well as impacts to Petersburg and Ketchikan area landowners, and
a buyout would also avoid long-term and massive landscape level
impacts elsewhere if the exchange is enacted.
MS. KNIGHT pointed out that the Alaska Forest Resources and
Practices Act governs logging on the Trust's lands. This
antiquated law is far weaker than federal regulations, she said.
For instance, it has no limit on the size of clear-cuts. She
related that in August [2016], Paul Slenkamp of the Trust stated
that the Trust was "in final negotiations with Viking Lumber for
all the Prince of Wales land it would get under the exchange
legislation." She urged there be a clarification of just what
these "final negotiations" entail.
MS. KNIGHT posited that changing the action from an exchange to
a federal buyout would lend support on a congressional level and
would greatly improve its chances of passage by reducing or even
eliminating opposition, and would result in no environmental
harm. Given a fair chance of passage, she said, the Trust could
finalize the action much sooner and with less expense for survey
and appraisal since only about half the lands would be involved.
It also makes fiscal sense because it would cost the Trust about
half the $6 million in cost cited by the Trust for the exchange.
A federal buyout of the Trust's problematic lands is a
reasonable solution, she posited, because Congress created the
Trust and endowed it with lands to support itself, leading to
problems due in part to the controversial nature of the lands
selected. She further noted that the Petersburg Borough
Assembly supports the buyout option if the exchange legislation
fails to pass Congress by 1/15/17. In response to Co-Chair
Josephson, she agreed to provide a copy of the borough assembly
resolution.
2:32:22 PM
LARRY EDWARDS testified in opposition to HB 155. He said the
bill is unacceptable as written because it trades one very bad
problem for an equally bad problem. The problem the bill would
create is explained in three of the [written] comments on record
from the [3/27/17] hearing that were submitted by Doug Rhodes,
by Rebecca Knight, and by the Greater Southeast Alaska
Conservation Community (GSACC) [under document named, "HB 155
Public Comments. pdf"]. He urged the committee to amend HB 155
to authorize a federal buyout of the problematic Trust lands
instead of a land exchange. He pointed out that Congress
established the Trust and its land endowment, which has led to
the current dilemma. Buying out these 18,000 acres - 1.8
percent of the original million-acre endowment - is a reasonable
and sellable solution, he posited. The legislature's passage of
a bill amended accordingly would direct Alaska's congressional
delegation to secure a buyout act.
MR. EDWARDS addressed testimony on the bill that was provided by
the Alaska Mental Health Trust Land Office [3/27/17]. He
offered his belief that the Trust's testimony blatantly
misinformed the committee in several ways, the details of which
he has submitted to the committee in writing. For example, he
explained, the "brown" map on page 10 of the Trust's written
testimony either demonstrates utter incompetence on Southeast
Alaska's land management issues, or is an outright lie. The
brown color is labeled, "Natural settings with old-growth
harvest land use designations," and is mostly overlain with
cross-hatching to indicate that this supposed old-growth cannot
be logged because of the Roadless Rule. However, he pointed
out, most of the brown is not old-growth forest, or even forest,
at all. Another example on the same map is the big brown block
near Juneau, which is almost entirely the Juneau Ice Field and
high alpine areas - very, very little of that brown is old-
growth forest. This same thing occurs in the brown area shown
on the Chilkat Peninsula across Lynn Canal, he continued, and
again in the brown area shown for the unforested high mountain
spines of Chichagof and Baranof islands. This deception repeats
itself throughout much of the brown-colored areas on the map, he
said, and also in the tan Wilderness areas. He further noted
that these same errors or deceptions also carry through to the
table on that map page.
2:36:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND recalled Mr. Edwards referring to a
document provided by GSACC that is three pages long with one map
and which can be found on BASIS. She further recalled Mr.
Edwards referring to page 10 of a similar document and asked Mr.
Edwards to provide that document or tell the committee how to
identify it.
MR. EDWARDS replied that the document is in the record for the
committees [3/27/17 hearing of HB 155] and is provided as two
different documents one a PowerPoint and one a PDF file. Both
are Alaska Mental Health Trust documents, he said, and are the
presentation provided on screen by Mr. Wyn Menefee.
2:37:03 PM
MIKE SALLEE testified in opposition to HB 155. He stated that
for three and a half decades he has been a self-employed owner-
operator of a small sawmill, as well as a commercial fisherman
and harvest diver. Today he is representing himself and his
lumber customers in opposition to HB 155, he said. He is a
logger by virtue of needing logs for his sawmill operation. He
does not fell trees; he takes only dead and down trees carried
to tidelands. His brother was a lifelong logger and a mentor to
him.
MR. SALLEE said he has resided on Gravina Island since 1956 when
his mother began a homestead there. Since 1956 he has enjoyed
dozens of hunting expeditions on the island for deer and grouse,
as well as just hiking. Therefore, he has seen a lot of what
went on when the Alaska Mental Health Trust began logging on
Gravina Island and, he noted, it has not been pretty. Way too
much wood is wasted, he reported, and a high percentage of
felled commercially viable timber is left to rot. The sawlogs
that are removed are primarily exported in the round, leaving no
opportunity for local processing. As a local sawmiller, he
continued, he gets numerous calls for yellow cedar lumber, but
yellow cedar lumber does not commonly get carried to tidelands
where he gets most of his logs from blowdowns and landslides.
Furthermore, he recounted, the tops, cull trees, and other
logging slash are neither removed from the woods nor cut up into
smaller pieces so as to more quickly break down.
MR. SALLEE stated that while HB 155 takes some critical
timberlands off the chopping block, for example Deer Mountain
plus other lands near Petersburg and communities, it does little
more than kick the can down the road. It does nothing to clean
up the current logging methods. It does nothing to keep local
timber for processors near Ketchikan. The best option instead
of a land trade, he urged, would be an outright cash payment to
Alaska Mental Health Trust to buy off Trust lands with timber
interest. He offered his understanding that such a buyout could
be accomplished through the U.S. Forest Service.
2:39:29 PM
EMILY FERRY, deputy director, Southeast Alaska Conservation
Council (SEACC), testified that SEACC's concern is less about
the specific content of HB 155 and more about the overall
intent. Specifically, she explained, a handout provided by the
Alaska Mental Health Trust mentions that a main goal is to
promote the timber industry in Southeast Alaska. But, she said,
the bill sets up a "Catch 22". The Trust is mandated to
generate revenue to benefit its beneficiaries. However, she
advised, selling timber locally tends to not produce the most
revenue. This was seen last year when the legislature passed a
bill that allowed the state to offer timber at a reduced cost if
it was sold to instate processors because they couldn't compete
with export markets. So, she continued, if one seeks to
increase the benefits to the Trust, one would export that timber
because in the current market that would generate the most
revenue. To promote the timber industry the Trust would have to
sell the timber at a reduced cost and therefore it's a Catch 22.
MS. FERRY addressed the earlier statement that HB 155 would be a
win-win-win situation. She said it would be a win for some -
the folks who SEACC has worked with for years to ensure that the
hillsides in Ketchikan and Petersburg don't get logged.
However, she continued, it is certainly not a win for the folks
on Prince of Wales Island where whole areas would be logged.
And, it is questionably a win for the Trust's beneficiaries.
She said SEACC believes that other avenues could be looked at
for resolving this issue and maximizing the benefits to the
Trust, whether that is the federal buyout mentioned earlier or
working with conservation buyers.
2:42:13 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON inquired whether SEACC's thesis is that if
the Alaska Mental Health Trust must maximize its assets then it
would need to export [the timber] because that is more valuable.
MS. FERRY replied yes, under the current economics.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON offered his understanding that export is not
the plan.
MS. FERRY concurred that export is not the plan; the bill
doesn't necessarily achieve that win-win-win scenario that is
being looked for.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON surmised that in terms of conservation there
would be some net gain in that existing Trust holdings, such as
Deer Mountain, are vulnerable to harvest now, as are the parcels
to be obtained, although there is the Roadless Rule and a
significant slowdown. [Under HB 155, Deer Mountain and some
places] would be conserved in an easement while other places
would not. He asked whether he is correct in understanding that
there is a net protection of timber, but noted he is saying this
without having walked this land and knowing what it looks like.
MS. FERRY responded that in his testimony, Mr. Edwards spoke to
other areas of land that were going to be exchanged that didn't
have high timber values so weren't likely to be logged. She
agreed there is an element to what Co-Chair Josephson spoke to,
but said it could also be looked at other ways and looking at a
different solution altogether might be the way to go.
2:44:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH stated that the carrots in his garden are
vulnerable to harvest every fall when they finish growing. He
inquired whether Ms. Ferry sees any potential for a sustainable
harvest and management of timber resources in Southeast Alaska
for the benefit of the region's people and economy, recognizing
that there are a number of years between reforestation. He said
the Trust obviously sees it as a significant economic plus.
MS. FERRY answered she does see that, but said it is going to be
much different than was seen 20-30 years ago. It is going to be
small-scale artisan-type work, she said, and old growth logs are
needed for that, which is something Alaska can produce but
Oregon and other states cannot produce. If the old growth
resource is liquidated now, and whether it is sold to Viking
Lumber for a reduced cost or exported for more money, that [old
growth] wood resource is going to be gone; it is not infinite.
The forest will grow back, she continued, but it will take 300
years to get to the state of high-value old growth timber that
can be used for such things as guitar tops and totem poles. She
related that SEACC already sees it much smaller; for example,
the current number of timber jobs in Southeast Alaska represents
about one-half of 1 percent of the region's jobs. People are
still operating from 20 or 30 years ago when it was a much
bigger part of the economy, she said, but the reality is that it
is less than 1 percent of the current economy, and while that
could change a little it would not be significantly.
2:46:21 PM
VICTORIA MCDONALD testified she has hiked Deer Mountain many
times and considers it a memorable landmark and does not want to
see Deer Mountain logged for Alaska Mental Health Trust funding.
Nor, she continued, does she want the land trade to shift the
cutting to Prince of Wales Island, which has already been
heavily impacted, as has Revillagigedo Island. If the focus of
the Trust is to make money, she encourages state and federal
officials to think and act creatively and find another means for
providing money for mental health. She offered her belief that
the men and women who set aside these mental health lands could
not have imagined the massive clearcuts in southern Southeast
Alaska. This issue has been debated for many years and needs to
be solved using collaboration and compromise. As for a viable
timber industry in Southeast Alaska, she said, that is a myth
that is repeated over and over. While there are trees still on
the mountains, the best and viable timber has already been cut
for the pulp mills or shipped overseas. The timber industry
contributes very little to the area's economy; rather, it is
fishing and tourism.
2:48:00 PM
BOB WEINSTEIN, spokesperson, Save Deer Mountain, testified in
support of HB 155. The purpose of the bill, he noted, is to
authorize the Alaska Mental Health Trust to exchange some of its
landholdings with the U.S. Forest Service. The exchange would
involve Deer Mountain, the iconic backdrop of the community of
Ketchikan. He related that last August and thereafter the
Trust's committees and its board of directors voted to log Deer
Mountain as well as a sensitive parcel in Petersburg unless
pending federal legislation to exchange the parcels with U.S.
Forest Service land was passed by the end of 2016. The
Ketchikan public vehemently objected to the board's decision to
harvest the trees on Deer Mountain and the city, borough, and
local tribal governments also all opposed the plan.
MR. WEINSTEIN continued, noting that ultimately the Trust's
board rescinded its action, regrouped, and is now working with
the Alaska congressional delegation on federal exchange
legislation, which was reintroduced in the new Congress. He
offered his understanding that a bill by Senator [Lisa]
Murkowski is scheduled for mark-up [3/30/17] and will be
reported out of committee. For this reason, he said, the House
Resources Standing Committee needs to move state-authorizing
legislation through the committee process and onward to final
consideration by the House of Representatives so that when the
federal legislation passes the exchange can be implemented in an
orderly and timely fashion.
MR. WEINSTEIN addressed the earlier question about the value of
some of the parcels. He reported that the Alaska Mental Health
Trust Land Office has estimated it would get revenues of up to
about $3 million from the Petersburg parcel and about $2 million
from the 898 acres on Deer Mountain. He offered his belief that
if a value-for-value trade was done, the Trust would expect to
get the same kind of revenue from the U.S. Forest Service land
and other parcels that are being considered for exchange.
2:50:56 PM
CHARLES WOOD, spokesperson, Mitkof Highway Homeowners
Association (MHHA), testified in favor of HB 155. He said MHHA
is a group of 95 Petersburg homeowners living below and
commuting along State Highway 7, the Mitkof Highway, which lies
at the foot of the Trust's demonstrably steep unstable hillside
parcels. Soils across a majority of the Trust's parcels are of
concern to MHHA, he reported, because U.S. Forest Service (USFS)
orthophotographic maps show them as being landslide hazard
soils. The majority of these parcels exceed the USFS standards
pertaining to logging. Mr. Wood further pointed out that the
Mitkof Highway corridor below the Trust parcels in question have
also been analyzed and mapped as a landslide hazard zone by the
state's Division of Forestry's Landslide Science and Technical
Committee. He said the Division of Forestry has no criteria for
best management practices specific to logging steep unstable
slopes within inhabited landslide hazard areas. If the Trust
were to log these slopes it would do so under the guidance of
the Alaska Forest Resources and Practices Act.
MR. WOOD stated that logging within an inhabited landslide
hazard area is unwise as well as inconsistent with the public
interest and the maximum benefit to people. The sole focus of
MHHA over the past 11 years has been entirely on public safety,
he related. Never once has MHHA mentioned viewshed, community
backdrop, local recreation opportunities, wildlife corridor, or
tourism, though each of these issues present reasonable
arguments in favor of the land exchange. Nor, he continued, has
MHHA offered commentary on the Trust lands next to other
communities or the USFS lands involved in the exchange.
MR. WOOD said logging the slopes above the homes of MHHA members
runs the risk of accelerated landslide activity, and the MHHA
has absolutely no confidence that the Division of Forestry's
best management practices and guidelines will provide sufficient
safeguards to protect homes and property from unwise timber
harvest. Conversely, he continued, MHHA does expect that USFS
management of the hillside will entail other criteria, which
will ensure that public safety will not be impacted by logging.
The committee may also wish to consider that the majority of the
population in Southeast Alaska resides in close proximity to the
Trust lands involved with this land exchange, he added. As
such, for any number of reasons the parcels are clearly more
beneficial to be left in their natural state for multiple-use by
the public, which is more likely to occur under USFS guidelines
and standards. He urged the committee to support HB 155.
2:53:53 PM
CYNTHIA LAGOUDAKIS, vice-mayor, Petersburg Borough, testified in
favor of HB 155. She said the bill represents a 10-year effort
by the residents of Petersburg and Ketchikan, the U.S. Forest
Service, and the Alaska Mental Health Trust to affect a land
exchange within the Petersburg Borough and elsewhere in
Southeast Alaska. The Petersburg Borough seeks to protect the
natural resources within the borough's boundaries, she
continued, and especially the lives, property, and peace of mind
of those borough residents who live in close proximity to the
current Trust lands that are under consideration. The borough
has concerns for the downstream and downslope effects of any
potential timber harvest in this area given the credible
scientific information regarding landslides and other hazards.
VICE-MAYOR Lagoudakis noted that especially in this current
fiscal climate the Alaska Mental Health Trust must manage its
resources for financial efficiencies to best achieve its
mission. Expediting the land exchange outlined in HB 155 would
help significantly in realizing those efficiencies, she said.
An exchange of Trust lands for USFS lands identified in HB 155
would meet those objectives to the satisfaction of the
Petersburg Borough and its residents, as well as other parties
affected by this agreement. To that end, she concluded, the
borough concurs with and encourages passage of HB 155.
2:55:26 PM
The committee took a brief at ease.
2:55:54 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON removed his objection to the adoption of the
CS [for HB 155], Version U, as the working document.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON closed public testimony.
There being no further objection, Version U was before the
committee.
2:56:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH stated that as a resource-inclined person
he is thrilled to see this initiative by the Alaska Mental
Health Trust and the federal [agency] working to make this a
reality. He estimated that at $2 million for almost 1,000 acres
[in Ketchikan] and $3 million for 3,000 acres in Petersburg, the
average is between $1,000 and $2,000 per acre in realized
revenues from the harvest. As a sustainable industry, where the
wood product can be harvested and then the regrowth harvested,
this is a great effort, he continued. The mapping is detailed
and helpful, and it sounds like a win-win from the standpoints
of the communities, the public, and the Alaska Mental Health
Trust.
2:57:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH recognized the conflict brought up by Ms.
Ferry and asked what could be done to assure that the citizens
of Southeast Alaska gain the maximum benefit possible through
local processing. He requested Mr. Menefee to respond to this
as well as to the assertion about a high degree of wastage.
MR. MENEFEE replied that there are different standards between
state harvest and federal harvest; the certain number of logs
gotten out of a tree varies from state to federal [regulations].
But, he continued, all state laws are followed. The Trust
believes it does receive fair revenue [from the exchange]. He
acknowledged every single log does not get cut to every
satisfaction. Something could potentially be worked out where
somebody comes in and can cut more in certain situations. In
regard to the issue that the Trust will ship the logs overseas
versus cut locally, he said it is in the best interest of the
Trust to ensure it has customers that will purchase its timber
because the Trust will make revenue off of it. State laws guide
how the Trust can sell the timber, both commercially and
negotiated. The Trust will take into full consideration the
issue that it needs its market purchasers along with the revenue
that the Trust needs. So, he added, it is a balancing thing,
and the Trust will design its timber sales accordingly to take
that into account.
3:00:09 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER opined that there is a certain amount of
economic value to be gained in keeping jobs local and selling
things local, rather than selling overseas. He said other
things must be taken into account besides the price tag of what
a board is worth, and that has a bearing on how to value the
weight of this as far as an economic value for the local people.
3:01:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO said he has no doubt the sponsor is
doing this in the best interest of his community. He noted the
backup documentation from local government organizations
composed of elected officials, and said these resolutions and
letters are important to him because he is a big believer in
local government and local control. He stated he personally has
an issue with any land sales to the federal government because
over 150 million acres in Alaska are in parks, monuments, and
preserves, plus another 50 million acres are controlled by the
U.S. Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest Service.
Therefore, he continued, the federal government controls 200
million acres of the 363 million acres available in the state of
Alaska. State ownership and keeping land in [the state's] hands
are important, he opined. The Alaska Mental Health Trust looks
at health overall and that could also be the health of a
community. A reasonable economy in a community provides local
jobs and makes things better and healthier for everyone in the
community.
3:03:14 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR moved to report CS for HB 155, Version 30-
LS0335\U, Bullard, 3/8/17, out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note. There being
no objection, CSHB 155(RES) was reported from the House
Resources Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 129 02.14.17 Transmittal Letter.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/3/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 129 |
| HB 129 Sectional.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/3/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 129 |
| HB0129 Fiscal Note DFG 2.15.17.PDF |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/3/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 129 |
| HB0129A.PDF |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM HRES 4/3/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 129 |
| Frederick (Fritz) Johnson_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| John Jensen 2016_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| Reed Morisky 2016_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| ASA Support - Jensen Morisky Johnson.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| Bristol Bay Borough Support - Johnson.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| CDFU Support - Jensen.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| Icicle Support - Jensen Johnson.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| KRSA Support - Jensen Morisky Johnson.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| ATA Support - Jensen.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| KPFA Support - Jensen Morisky Johnson.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| Unalaska Mayor Support - Jensen Morisky Johnson.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| USAG Support - Jensen.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Fish |
| HB0129 Fiscal Note DPS-AWT 3.29.17.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
|
| HB155 Supporting Document-AFA Response to SEACC.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 155 |
| HB155 Supporting Document - SWood 3.29.17.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 155 |
| HB155 Supporting Document-AFA Response to SEACC 3.29.17.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 155 |
| HB155 Opposing Document Testimony -- Larry Edwards for 29 March hearing on HB155 3.29.17.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 155 |
| HB155 Supporting Document - Comment - CWood 3.29.17.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 155 |
| HB155 Opposition Document - Letter of Comment-SEACC 3.29.17.pdf |
HRES 3/29/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 155 |