04/23/2021 08:00 AM House LABOR & COMMERCE

             HB 146-DISCLOSURE OF WAGE INFORMATION                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:55:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be  HOUSE  BILL  NO.  146,  "An Act  relating  to  disclosure  of                                                               
information   regarding  employee   compensation  by   employers,                                                               
employees, and  applicants for employment; establishing  the fund                                                               
for protection  of compensation disclosure rights;  and providing                                                               
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:56:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 8:56 a.m. to 8:57 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:57:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SPOHNHOLZ   moved  to  adopt  the   proposed  committee                                                               
substitute (CS) for HB 146,  Version 32-LS0513\B, Wayne, 4/19/21,                                                               
as the  working document.   There being  no objection,  Version B                                                               
was before the committee.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:57:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SNYDER, as prime sponsor,  introduced HB 146.  She                                                               
shared  that  the  proposed legislation  seeks  to  support  fair                                                               
hiring practices for the protection  of all Alaskan workers while                                                               
ensuring  that  employers  are  not  placed  at  unfair  risk  or                                                               
disadvantage.    She  said  that  the  first  component  is  "pay                                                               
privacy," a  provision under which employers  would be prohibited                                                               
from  requiring   an  applicant's   salary  history   during  the                                                               
application process.   She  said this  component would  allow the                                                               
employer and  applicant to focus  on qualifications,  which would                                                               
help  to ensure  that  salary history  doesn't  unduly affect  an                                                               
individual's economic  potential.  She  said that 27  states, and                                                               
many  cities,  have  a  similar   law,  and  the  U.S.  House  of                                                               
Representatives  recently passed  the Paycheck  Fairness Act;  if                                                               
that Act passes at the federal  level, HB 146 would ensure parity                                                               
between the state and federal law.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SNYDER  said  the  second component  of  HB  146,                                                               
Version B, could be called  "pay transparency," a provision under                                                               
which  applicants and/or  employees  must be  allowed to  discuss                                                               
their salaries  if they  choose to  do so.   She stated  that the                                                               
National Labor  Relations Act protects  this type  of discussion,                                                               
as does decades  of case law.  The third  component, she said, is                                                               
called "pay posting."  Job  announcements must include a range of                                                               
pay  as well  as other  compensation  details; by  doing so,  she                                                               
said, applicants  won't misdirect  resources toward  job openings                                                               
with compensation that doesn't meet  their needs.  This component                                                               
would also  benefit employers,  she said,  by helping  them avoid                                                               
spending  valuable time  interviewing  applicants who  ultimately                                                               
wouldn't accept the  offer due to pay.  She  described sitting on                                                               
hiring  committees  and  spending  many hours  and  thousands  of                                                               
dollars recruiting and interviewing  potential employees, only to                                                               
have  the job  offer  turned down  because  the applicant  wasn't                                                               
aware of the salary range prior to the offer.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SNYDER  said  that   HB  146,  Version  B,  would                                                               
disallow  retaliation  against  an   applicant  or  employee  who                                                               
chooses  to not  share salary  history  or who  chooses to  share                                                               
current salary  information.  A  small fine for  violations would                                                               
be  implemented  under  HB  146,  she  said,  with  the  revenues                                                               
directed to the  undesignated general fund (UGF);  the fine could                                                               
be  avoided if  an employer  changes their  practices to  operate                                                               
within the parameters of the  proposed legislation.  She stressed                                                               
that HB 146  would not require an employer to  offer any specific                                                               
pay  range or  compensation  package, nor  would  it disallow  an                                                               
employer  to  amend  compensation  after an  interview  has  been                                                               
conducted.  "The range is a  starting point; it gives a potential                                                               
applicant a general  idea of where the  conversations may begin,"                                                               
she  said.    She  pointed  out that  the  provisions  would  not                                                               
disallow  an  employer from  asking  what  an applicant's  salary                                                               
expectations would be, and that  an applicant may still choose to                                                               
share salary history.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:05:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SNYDER  shared  that there  is  growing  evidence                                                               
showing  that the  issues which  would  be addressed  by HB  146,                                                               
Version B,  are pervasive and persistent.   She said that  on the                                                               
issue  of pay  privacy,  nationally  representative studies  from                                                               
2012, 2017,  and 2019 show that  up to 47 percent  of respondents                                                               
said they have  been asked about past wages.   A study from 2011,                                                               
she  said,  showed  that  half   of  all  workers  reported  that                                                               
discussion of wage and salary  information was either discouraged                                                               
or prohibited by their employers.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:08:03 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALLIANA  SALANGUIT,  Staff,  Representative  Liz  Snyder,  Alaska                                                               
State Legislature,  presented the sectional analysis  for HB 146,                                                               
Version  B, on  behalf of  Representative Snyder,  prime sponsor,                                                               
which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  1:  Amends  AS  22.10.020.  Jurisdiction  of  the                                                                  
     Superior Court by establishing  that the Superior Court                                                                    
     has jurisdiction  over all causes of  action that arise                                                                    
     under  the  remaining law  sections  in  this bill.  An                                                                    
     aggrieved  employer  or  employee   may  apply  to  the                                                                    
     Superior Court for relief.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  2:  Amends  AS  23.10  Employment  Practices  and                                                                  
     Working Conditions  by adding Article 9.  Disclosure of                                                                  
     Employee Compensation and the following sections:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     • Sec. 23.10.700. Disclosure of Discussion Wages:                                                                        
     (a)  Requires  job  postings to  include  a  salary  or                                                                    
     salary range.  (b) Allows  applicants and  employees to                                                                    
     discuss current  wage, prohibits employers  from asking                                                                    
     applicants  about  their  salary history  with  another                                                                    
     employer                                                                                                                   
     (c) Clarifies  that nothing  in this  section obligates                                                                    
     an   employee   or    applicant   to   disclose   their                                                                    
     compensation, prohibits  an employee or  applicant from                                                                    
     voluntarily disclosing,  or prohibits an  employer from                                                                    
     using information  that is voluntarily  disclosed under                                                                    
     this  subsection  when  determining the  salary  of  an                                                                    
     employee or applicant.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     • Sec.  23.10.705 Posting Summary Required  requires an                                                                  
     employer  to post  information  summarizing the  bill's                                                                    
     provisions.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     •  Sec. 23.10.710  Retaliation Prohibited  prohibits an                                                                  
     employer  from  retaliating  against  an  employee  for                                                                    
     exercising a right under the bill.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     •  Sec. 23.10.715  Damages  for  Retaliation allows  an                                                                  
     employee to file  a civil claim against  an employer if                                                                    
     the employer retaliates.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     •  Sec.  23.10.720  Statute  of  Limitations  gives  an                                                                  
     employee  no more  than 3  years after  a violation  to                                                                    
     file a civil claim.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     • Sec.  23.10.725 Penalty creates a  fine between $100-                                                                  
     $2000  for violations  and  directs  the Department  of                                                                    
     Labor   and  Workforce   Development  Commissioner   to                                                                    
     determine  the   amount.  An   employer  may,   at  the                                                                    
     discretion  of the  Commissioner,  reduce  the fine  or                                                                    
     correct the violation by conducting an audit.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     •  Sec. 23.10.735  Regulations adds  language directing                                                                  
     the  Department  of  Labor  and  Workforce  Development                                                                    
     Commissioner to  implement and interpret this  bill and                                                                    
     adopt regulations accordingly.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     •  Sec.   23.10.790  Definitions   exempts  independent                                                                  
     contractors from the  definition of "employee." Defines                                                                    
     an "employer"  as the state, the  University of Alaska,                                                                    
     the   Alaska   Railroad    Corporation,   a   political                                                                    
     subdivision of the state, and  a person who employs one                                                                    
     or more employees.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.   3:  Adds   conforming  language   AS  22.10.020.                                                                  
     Jurisdiction of the Superior Court                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Sec.  4: Provides  for  an effective  date  of July  1,                                                                  
     2021.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:10:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SNYDER introduced the invited testifier.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:11:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HILARY  MORGAN,  Chief  Executive Officer,  Resourceful  Results,                                                               
LLC, gave  invited testimony in  support of HB 146,  [Version B],                                                               
which she  said would  be helpful in  leveling the  playing field                                                               
for women and people of color  in finding and attaining fair wage                                                               
employment.   She  said that  in her  former position  as CEO  of                                                               
Young Women's  Christian Association (YWCA) of  Alaska she worked                                                               
on an  initiative to help close  the gender pay gap  and with the                                                               
Department  of Labor  and Workforce  Development (DLWD)  studying                                                               
wages in Alaska.  The data  showed that for full time, year-round                                                               
workers, women  made less than  men in every  geographic location                                                               
and  every  market  sector,  and  that  the  wage  gap  persisted                                                               
regardless  of industry,  education level,  and occupation.   She                                                               
explained  that   asking  for  a  person's   salary  history  can                                                               
perpetuate  discriminatory  practices  instead of  evaluating  an                                                               
applicant on  merit.  Regarding  pay posting, she  said, research                                                               
has shown  a double  standard in  salary negotiation  between men                                                               
and women, and between white people  and people of color; men who                                                               
negotiate salary are seen as  "strong" and "closers," while women                                                               
who negotiate are seen as "bossy"  and not being a "team player."                                                               
When people  of color  negotiate salary,  she said,  they're most                                                               
often  seen  as  either  "overstepping"  or  "ungrateful."    She                                                               
pointed out that anyone who has  ever interviewed for a job knows                                                               
that asking  for salary range  during the interview  has negative                                                               
connotations.  She said that  managers know what the salary range                                                               
is  on  every job;  budgets  can't  be  done without  having  the                                                               
information before  advertising the  opening.  In  her experience                                                               
as a CEO,  she said, listing the salary range  in the job posting                                                               
streamlined the  application and interview process  and attracted                                                               
applicants comfortable  with the  range; while it  didn't inhibit                                                               
her from  offering an applicant a  higher wage, it did  limit her                                                               
ability  to "lowball"  an applicant.   She  expressed her  belief                                                               
that the  proposed legislation would  mitigate all of  the issues                                                               
she described.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:15:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NELSON asked  whether  the intention  of HB  146,                                                               
Version B, is to have an  individual reporting to the DLWD that a                                                               
job posting doesn't include salary information.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SNYDER  replied  yes.   She  explained  that  the                                                               
proposed legislation would give DLWD  the authority to decide how                                                               
best to address such complaints.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NELSON asked whether DLWD  would be able to handle                                                               
the workload.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SNYDER referred  to the fiscal note  and said that                                                               
DLWD currently  has 13 investigators  who work on  prevailing and                                                               
minimum wage issues.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NELSON opined  that it's  difficult to  justify a                                                               
$300,000 fiscal note for that amount of self-reporting.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SNYDER shared  that  the fiscal  note amount  was                                                               
surprising and that  there were discussions with  DLWD about what                                                               
their process  was in arriving  at the  amount.  She  pointed out                                                               
that, since  receiving the fiscal  note, research has  shown that                                                               
several states  with similar or  larger populations  have enacted                                                               
similar  laws with  either no  fiscal  notes or  notes with  very                                                               
small amounts, usually intended for implementation or education.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:19:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS commented  that there are already  staff in place                                                               
to enforce the provisions and that  he doesn't see the need for a                                                               
fiscal note.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:19:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE  DUNHAM, Chief  Investigator, Wage  and Hour  Administration,                                                               
Division of Labor  Standards and Safety, Department  of Labor and                                                               
Workforce  Development, said  that  the logic  behind the  fiscal                                                               
note is that  the underlying message of HB 146  is "equal pay for                                                               
equal work."   He said that  if workers were to  start discussing                                                               
their wages  there could be many  calls coming in to  his office.                                                               
He said  that he would  like to add  three workers to  handle the                                                               
"onslaught"   of   calls   regarding   issues   of   termination,                                                               
retaliation, or  the handling  of back  wages.   He said  that he                                                               
could  understand  the  existence  of   a  zero  fiscal  note  if                                                               
implementation was  a simple  issue of putting  up a  poster, but                                                               
this  proposed  legislation  would encourage  workers  to  openly                                                               
discuss their salaries.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:21:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SNYDER   commented  that  if  DLWD   foresees  an                                                               
onslaught of  complaints in response  to HB 146, such  an opinion                                                               
further justifies the need for the proposed legislation.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUNHAM replied that he could see many moot investigations.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:22:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SPOHNHOLZ asked  whether the  three-year limitation  to                                                               
file a civil claim would apply to all provisions of the bill.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SNYDER replied that it would.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:22:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NELSON asked  whether HB 146, Version  B, would be                                                               
pulled if the federal Paycheck Fairness Act were enacted.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SNYDER  noted the  common practice of  having laws                                                               
in state statute that mirror those on the federal level.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:23:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ  invited Mr. Wayne  to discuss the  subject of                                                               
federal versus state statutes.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:23:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAN  WAYNE,  Attorney,  Legislative Legal  Services,  Legislative                                                               
Affairs Agency, said  that he doesn't know of a  federal law that                                                               
specifically requires  employers to post  a salary range  or that                                                               
protects the rights of employees to discuss their salaries.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:25:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SNYDER clarified  that  she  was referencing  the                                                               
Paycheck  Fairness  Act,  which  would   be  a  new  federal  law                                                               
addressing pay  privacy and prohibiting employers  from requiring                                                               
an applicant's  salary history.   She pointed out that  27 states                                                               
already have the law in  place, and that the proposed legislation                                                               
would be intended to complement the federal law.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NELSON  stated  that  his  earlier  question  was                                                               
whether there  would be any  conflict between HB 146,  Version B,                                                               
and the  legislation proposed at  the federal level,  should they                                                               
pass.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:26:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY  asked Mr. Dunham how  many investigations                                                               
he conducts  on a monthly basis  and by how much  he would expect                                                               
the  number of  investigations to  increase  as a  result of  the                                                               
proposed legislation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DUNHAM  replied  that  displaying wages  on  a  job  posting                                                               
shouldn't cause any  increase in workload in  his department, nor                                                               
does he  anticipate an  increase in  the workload  resulting from                                                               
the provision about employers being  prohibited from asking about                                                               
previous wages.   He said encouraging employees  to discuss wages                                                               
could cause problems.   He said, "If I hire a  mechanic at $26 an                                                               
hour and then I  hire this next one at $30 an  hour, I'm going to                                                               
tell  him, 'Don't  talk about  your wages  because it's  going to                                                               
cause a  problem.'"   He said  that he  could see  the lower-paid                                                               
mechanic wanting  more money and  possibly contacting  DLWD about                                                               
the issue of equal pay for equal work.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:29:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SNYDER  pointed   out  that   Mr.  Dunham   just                                                               
highlighted  how important  the  education roll-out  is, so  that                                                               
individual and  employers fully understand the  parameters of the                                                               
proposed   legislation.      She    noted   the   importance   of                                                               
distinguishing between  policy preferences and cost  estimates of                                                               
implementation and monitoring.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:30:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAUFMAN referred  to page 2, lines  21 through 24,                                                               
which read as follows:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     (c) Nothing in this section                                                                                                
     (1) creates an obligation  for an employee or applicant                                                                    
     for  employment 23  to disclose  information about  the                                                                    
     employee   or  applicant's   compensation  or   the  24                                                                    
     compensation of another;                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAUFMAN commented that  some people might not want                                                               
others to  know their salary  range.   He then asked  whether the                                                               
proposed legislation includes protections  for employers who want                                                               
to compensate high performers.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SNYDER explained that  the "pay privacy" provision                                                               
is sometimes called a "salary history  ban" and is connected in a                                                               
positive  way to  "pay  posting."   She  said  that there  exists                                                               
evidence  that  when  employers  are  prohibited  from  requiring                                                               
salary histories from their  applicants, they naturally gravitate                                                               
toward posting the  salary range on the  job posting, eliminating                                                               
the  need to  ask  for  an applicant's  pay  history because  the                                                               
applicant  is prepared  for the  salary range.   She  also stated                                                               
that  nothing  in  the proposed  legislation  would  prohibit  an                                                               
employer from giving a bonus or  other reward for good work.  She                                                               
expressed  being  amenable  to   changing  the  language  of  the                                                               
proposed legislation to clarify that point.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:33:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FIELDS announced  that HB  146, [Version  B], was  held                                                               
over.