Legislature(2015 - 2016)BUTROVICH 205
03/28/2016 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB137 | |
| Confirmation Hearing | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 137 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 216 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 137-HUNT/FISH/TRAP: FEES;LICENSES;EXEMPTIONS
3:31:25 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL announced consideration of HB 137, last heard on
March 23.
SENATOR COSTELLO moved to bring SCS CSHB137 (RES), 29-LS0625\U,
before the committee as the working document.
CHAIR GIESSEL objected for discussion purposes.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI joined the committee.
3:32:00 PM
AKIS GIALOPSOS, Staff to Senator Giessel and the Senate
Resources Committee, explained the changes from version V to
version U version of CSHB 137 as follows:
1. Page 1, Lines 1, 3, and 12: Amends the title to remove the
language related to the powers and duties of the commissioner of
fish and game (an attempt to institute a Chitina dip netters
fee); replaces the word "rivers" with "watersheds"; and adds a
new semicolon related to the Chitina dip net fishery.
2. Page 2, Lines 2-7: Adds a new Section. 1, creating the
"Sustainable Wildlife Account" as a separate account in the Fish
and Game Fund. The account would receive moneys accruing from
the intensive management surcharge imposed by a later section of
the bill (Section. 23).
3:33:02 PM
3. Removes the former Sections. 1, 2, and 3 of the prior version
"V" of the bill. Those items were: intent language related to
the North American Wildlife Conservation model; a new paragraph
related to the powers and duties of the commissioner of fish and
game; and a section removing language related to the payment of
hatchery bonds (that conforms throughout this version).
4. Page 4, Line 10: Lowers the resident hunting license in
Section. 4 (Prior Version Section. 7) from "40" dollars to "35"
dollars.
5. Removes the former Sections. 6, 11, 13, 15, and 17 of version
"V". Those sections are related to maintaining the prior
hatchery surcharge on several licenses after the bonds had been
paid. The repeal language for those bonds will remain, but the
surcharge finding a way to remain has gone away as a consequence
of removing those sections. So there should not be a 9 dollar
surcharge from now on.
3:34:36 PM
SENATOR STOLTZE joined the committee.
6. Page 8, Line 19: Amends Section. 20 (Prior Version Section.
27) to reword "the age of 16" to "16 years of age."
7. Page 8, Lines 25-28: Amends Section. 21 (Prior Version
Section. 28) by adding the word "watersheds" after the words
"Kenai and Kasilof rivers" on lines 25 and 28, respectively.
8. Page 9, Lines 21-31: Adds a new Section. 22, repealing
certain hatchery surcharge provisions (effective date is further
in the bill with other effective dates related to the expiration
of the hatchery surcharge).
3:35:39 PM
9. Page 10, Line 13: Amends Section. 23 (Prior Version Section.
29) by increasing the intensive management surcharge on
nonresidents from "2010" dollars in the previous version of the
bill, to "30" dollars while keeping the resident surcharge at
"10" dollars.
10. Page 13, Lines 9-20: Adds a new Section. 31, amending the
existing AS 16.10.570 (Article 11: Chitina Dip Net Fishery), by
adding the duties of maintaining and improving state-owned land
used to access the Chitina dip net fishery, and maintaining and
operating sanitary facilities provided for the use of persons
participating in the Chitina dip net fishery, to the Department
of Fish & Game. He noted that existing language also requires
the ADF&G to work in concert with the Department of Natural
Resources (DNR) and Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities (DOTPF), respectively.
3:36:35 PM
11. Page 13, Line 21: Amends Section. 32 (Prior Version Section.
37) by adding a repeal provision for the Sustainable Wildlife
Account (new Section. 1).
12. Page 13, Line 22: Amends Section. 33 (Prior Version Section.
38) by adding a repeal provision to the Fish and Game Fund
statute for payment of revenue bonds related to hatcheries once
they have been paid.
13. Page 14, Lines 13-21: Amends Section. 35 (Prior Version
Sections. 40, 41) by making the effects of Sections. 22 and 33
conditional on the Commissioner of Fish & Game notifying the
revisor of statutes in writing that the bonds, interest and any
other applicable obligations have been met and fully discharged.
3:37:35 PM
14. Page 14, Line 24: Amends Section. 37 (Prior Version Section.
43) by extending the sunset date of the intensive management
surcharge from December 31 "2020" to December 31 "2022."
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI, referring to Section 31 on page 13, said
he wanted some intent language on the record to understand
language in item 1 that says "maintain and improve state-owned
land used to access the Chitina dip net fishery." Does that
require DOTPF to clear the road past O'Brien Creek so people
have access into the canyon?
MR. GIALOPSOS said yes; that is the intent, but the only
obligatory language that he can see is for the ADF&G to work in
conjunction with those agencies.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI responded that his understanding is that
the department with the cooperation of DOTPF and DNR "shall"
maintain and improve state-owned land used to access the Chitina
dip net fishery. To him that requires all three organizations to
work together to make sure that the dip netters have drivable
access "in a car, not an ATV" past O'Brien Creek.
MR. GIALOPSOS answered that is his understanding, also.
CHAIR GIESSEL removed her objection and finding no further
objections stated that version U was adopted. She recapped that
public testimony was closed on March 23, and opened the
committee for discussion and questions.
3:39:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau,
Alaska, sponsor of HB 137, said he is happy with version U of HB
137. He appreciates all the effort put into this legislation.
However, he would like to see a $5 resident fee for intensive
management.
3:40:52 PM
KEVIN BROOKS, Deputy Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish and
Game (ADF&G), Juneau, Alaska, said he would provide the answers
to the committee's questions from the last hearing.
1. How the department would use increased revenues? That
resulted in a document entitled "HB 137 Proposed Use for
Increased Revenue."
2. What is the impact of the changes in the age requirements for
licensing?
Raising the minimum age for purchasing a license from 16 to 18
results in an estimated loss of revenue of approximately $70,000
per year from approximately 2,400 fishing licenses and 1,000
hunting licenses. Raising the age for a Permanent ID (PID) card
from 60 to 62 results in an estimated increased revenue of
$105,800. An additional $158,700 would be generated by raising
it from 62 to 65. These estimates are based on 3,000 PIDs issued
to individuals aged 60-61, and 15,000 PIDs issued to individuals
aged 60-64.
3. Several questions came up related to a sockeye stamp: Are
fish wheels included? Does it apply to subsistence? How would it
be implemented with multiple households represented on a boat?
He clarified that the U version sockeye stamp applies to the
sport fishery only and not personal use or subsistence
fisheries.
4. What is the status of the hatchery bonds?
The Department of Revenue (DOR) debt manager, Devon Mitchel,
said he expected those bonds would be paid off by 2021/22. The
original debt schedule projected a payoff date in 2026, but
there have been several early redemptions due to available
revenue from the hatchery surcharge. Currently, that surcharge
generates about $6.3 million annually: $1.4 million of that is
generated from sales on licenses to residents and the majority
($4.9 million) is generated from sales on licenses to non-
residents.
5. How do Alaska's fees compare to other states, and in response
he had the attached document entitled "Western States Comp of
Hunting License and Tag Fees."
3:43:26 PM
MR. BROOKS said folks were working on the change in the fiscal
note, but some of the high points are on page and include:
-The $5 increase on hunting licenses generates $103,400 per year
for an additional $517,000 in revenue over five years.
-The additional intensive management surcharge of $10 on
residents and $30 on non-residents generates a total of
$1,535,000.
-Non-resident black bear at a $150 reduction results in a minus
$365,550 in revenue.
-Non-resident grizzly/brown bear $200 reduction results in a
minus $369,400 in revenue.
-Non-resident deer went up $25, generating a $37,800 increase.
-Non-resident elk generates $150 for six tags.
-Non-resident goat at $25 generates a $4,925 increase.
MR. BROOKS said the hunting changes total $1,359,925.
3:44:49 PM
On the fishing side:
-The Chitina dip net personal use fishery based on about 12,000
permits issued for $15 generates about $180,000. He said he had
reached out to DNR and DOT to let them know this is in the bill
and what the expectations are for providing services now that
there is ability to pay for them.
-They made some assumptions for sockeye stamp from state-wide
harvest data. About 140,000 anglers on the Kenai River generate
about $125,000 and about $15,000 on the Kasilof River.
He explained that since the department does not have a way of
determining what species are targeted, they assumed that half
would buy a sockeye stamp. A total of $71,500 comes from
residents and non-residents and about $68,000 from non-
residents. They used a seven-day $45 fee, a mid-number to get to
this estimate. Actual experience would dictate the correct
numbers; he just wanted to put it in a context and a ball park.
3:47:03 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE said those are watershed-related and asked if
that included the Russian River.
MR. BROOKS answered yes; however, the Division of Sportfish has
good numbers on the Russian River.
He said the total for fishing is $2,257,500 and that is expected
to go to things the department is not currently paying for. The
hatchery surcharge is not on the fiscal note, because the impact
occurs too far in the future (2022). However, it currently
generates about $6.3 million. The fiscal note would be $3.8
million, because a variety of surcharges are turned into a $9
fee. Similar to sockeye, they have 1, 3, 7, 14 and annual
licenses that have different costs and all of those are turned
into $9.
MR. BROOKS said the permanent ID cards generate $158,700 in
additional revenue for a grand total in the first full year of
$3.6 million on top of the $8.6 million that was already in the
bill - for a total of about $12.2 million.
CHAIR GIESSEL thanked him for being very informative.
CHAIR GIESSEL, referring to the white paper, noted that "Erosion
of State's Rights to Manage" (on page 1) talks about the
relentless erosion of Alaska's rights and that the increased
ADF&G revenue will provide support for the Department of Law
(DOL), ANILCA, and the access defense program.
She said on February 18, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
(USFWS) had a hearing in Anchorage talking about new rules for
refuges. What concerned her was that ADF&G was in the room and
was called upon, but they had no response. It is actually the
opposite of what he is saying here. Did they not have enough
money to speak?
MR. BROOKS responded, "Not at all." He actually asked the same
question. The program lead was in the room and hadn't been given
the clearance to speak and didn't on his own initiative. It was
the department's mistake, which he apologized for.
CHAIR GIESSEL asked Director Dale to comment on the February 18
incident.
3:51:00 PM
BRUCE DALE, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, Alaska
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), Palmer, Alaska, responded
that the failure to respond was on him. He was out of town and
the representative in attendance had talking points, which had
been reviewed and he was prepared to deliver, but he was waiting
for approval. Mr. Dale didn't realize he was waiting.
CHAIR GIESSEL asked if there is an opportunity for the
department to submit written comment.
MR. DALE answered that April 7 is the due date for written
comments and the department is in the process of finalizing
them. In addition, the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies
representing all 50 states, Canadian provinces, the Western
Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, numerous NGOs, and
the Board of Game are writing letters of objection to the Fish
and Wildlife Services proposed rule.
CHAIR GIESSEL asked to be copied on those letters so she could
pass them to the committee, since it has significant interest in
the defense of Alaska's right to manage its lands.
MR. DALE replied that he would be glad to do that.
SENATOR COSTELLO asked if the governor considers this a revenue
generating bill.
MR. BROOKS answered yes.
CHAIR GIESSEL said she appreciated that question and was
actually looking at another bill the committee had heard related
to increasing the mining license tax and noted that this bill
will generate $2 million more annually than the mining tax
license bill.
3:54:23 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE asked if the deputy commissioner had applied a
test on the $15 sockeye stamp to evaluate how it might
discourage folks who are in for a day or so that might be non-
residents, from fishing for sockeye on the Kasilof or Kenai
watersheds.
MR. BROOKS answered that the department's analysis factors in an
amount for a negative reaction to a price increase and used a 5-
10 percent drop in sales in this case that would build back up
over the course of five years or so.
3:55:27 PM
TOM BROOKOVER, Director, Division of Sportfish, Alaska
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), Anchorage, Alaska, added
that it is common for sales to drop after an increase in license
fees or a new fee is implemented. Beyond that, after the first
year or two, sales begin to rebound. They don't have a lot of
information specific to any case like this on the Kenai or the
Kasilof Rivers where they can actually predict how much sales
will drop or increase afterwards.
SENATOR MICCICHE said he didn't think raising the fee would
impact lodges and guides in his area, but it might impact the
self-service folks, such as people driving down from cities like
Anchorage. He asked how the department would analyze this after
the first year to determine if they have the right price point
on a stamp.
MR. BROOKS answered they would "absolutely be keeping track," as
they do with the king salmon stamp sales. They would survey
angler participation and try to match that up with the sale of
the stamps. However, one year would not be enough to make
meaningful comparisons.
SENATOR MICCICHE said he didn't think there would be an impact
on folks' dream trip to Alaska, but the potential impacts are on
the shorter term visitor.
3:57:56 PM
SENATOR STOLTZE asked if these are all unrestricted revenues and
which portion of them are tied to a measure.
MR. BROOKS answered that all of these funds would be deposited
into the Fish and Game Fund, and the intensive management
surcharge would be subaccount account within the fund, so it
could be tracked separately.
SENATOR STOLTZE asked if he could be provided a list of taxes
paid by the sportfishing industry, because he wanted to see
"what kind of parity there was in this whole process."
MR. BROOKS answered that currently the Fish and Game Fund
revenue consists of a fee for a license, not a true tax, as it
is for the privilege to fish. It generates about $25 million a
year. It could generate another $12 million if this measure
passes.
SENATOR MICCICHE remarked that the only thing that sort of
alludes to dedicated funds is the Chitina dip net fishery that
has a couple of suggestions. Two were added, but that still
doesn't dedicate funds. He likes people who pay for a tag to see
the direct benefit, and asked if he planned to account for what
is spent in the Chitina fishery so that folks paying that $15
can understand that they're getting direct value.
MR. BROOKS clarified that all license revenue is dedicated for
fish and wildlife purposes; the Fish and Game Fund is one of the
few dedicated funds. They will absolutely use that Chitina dip
net revenue ($150,000-$180,000) for the purposes stated: the
latrines, the trash, the road maintenance and those kinds of
things. And it will be accounted for separately.
4:01:22 PM
SENATOR STOLTZE said most people travelling to the Chitina dip
net fishery expect a road they could drive their off-road
vehicle on and not have a bank collapse on them. It might be a
mistake to assume the expectation of the committee is that these
funds will be used for creating a road that is drivable for a
traditional vehicle.
MR. BROOKS responded that he had not been to Chitina himself and
was not personally familiar with that road, but Mr. Derrick from
the Chitina Dip Net Association talked about four wheelers
having trouble, and that was his general understanding.
CHAIR GIESSEL said she had talked with DOTPF herself and found
that it is not an expectation that one would be able to drive
vehicles on it. That bank sloughs significantly every winter,
and every spring it can be cleared to some degree, but it's not
going to be a paved road or even a nice gravel road. The
legislature could follow up next year on how the road has been
maintained.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI commented that sport fishing fees going up
from $15 to $20 is a 33 percent increase and then the king fee
goes up $5, another 33 percent increase, and then you're adding
in the Kenai fees of $15, the Chitina dip netting fee which is
$15, and by the time that is all added up, an average sport
fisherman is looking at a couple hundred percent increase -
without the hunting fees. He thought maybe they were going "a
little bit overboard."
SENATOR MICCICHE clarified that the increase in the stamp is not
related to dip netting and looked to Mr. Brooks for
clarification.
MR. BROOKS answered that the increase to a king salmon stamp is
not. It's just tied to the general increase. The creation of the
sockeye stamp for sportfishing is not a personal use. The
Chitina dip net permit fee is new now, along with the other
general increases.
CHAIR GIESSEL clarified that at an earlier hearing, Mr. Ricky
Geese spoke to the committee and he meant to say he was speaking
on behalf of the Kenai River Special Management Area, not the
Kenai River Sportfishing Association (KRSA), which has not taken
a position on the sockeye stamp.
SENATOR COGHILL said he thought the [Chitina] association was
willing to pay for the fee, but bringing up personal use over
subsistence that same area is used to get into the subsistence
area, too, even though it's just yards away. He asked if there
had been discussion on some of the subsistence access provisions
under the same conditions with the Chitina dip net fishery.
MR. BROOKS deferred that answer to Mr. Brookover. He works most
closely with Tom Tobey, his deputy, on this topic.
MR. BROOKOVER responded that the dip net fee in statute would
apply strictly to the Chitina dip net personal use fishery,
which takes place from O'Brien Creek down to Haley Creek. The
Glennallen subdistrict would largely be unaffected except from
folks that might be launching from O'Brien Creek and driving
upstream. The Glennallen subdistrict subsistence fishery takes
place primarily upstream of the Chitina/McCarthy Bridge, which
is a ways away. He doesn't view that as being "predominantly
affected" by the legislation.
4:07:35 PM
SENATOR STOLTZE said the higher threshold of age to buy the
fishing license isn't clear and asked if an eight-year old needs
to buy a sockeye stamp?
MR. BROOKS answered the lack of a license requirement for
someone under 18 extends to stamps, as well.
SENATOR STOLTZE asked if that is a rigid department policy.
MR. BROOKS answered that it has been their policy since the king
salmon stamp was instituted.
4:08:51 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE found a correction to Section 21 on page 8,
lines 24-29, and page 9, line 1, about resident anadromous
sockeye stamp tag for the Kenai/Kasilof Rivers. It says, "A
resident may not engage unless that person is under 18 years old
(b)."
CHAIR GIESSEL thanked him for spotting that.
CHAIR GIESSEL asked for an updated fiscal note.
MR. BROOKS replied that they were waiting for the dust to
settle, but they would have one by tomorrow.
CHAIR GIESSEL mentioned that a letter of intent came with the
bill from the House and that needs some drafting work and she
intended to let the next committee, Senate Finance, do that.
4:10:21 PM
SENATOR STOLTZE said he thought the intentions in the letter
were good, but he was concerned about fleshing out the sheep and
livestock recommendations for the agriculture community.
4:11:03 PM
SENATOR COSTELLO moved to report SCS CSHB 137(RES), version 29-
LS0625\U, from committee with individual recommendations and
forthcoming fiscal note(s). There were no objections and it was
so ordered.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB137-Version U.pdf |
SRES 3/28/2016 3:30:00 PM |
HB 137 |
| HB137-Explanation of Changes-Version U.pdf |
SRES 3/28/2016 3:30:00 PM |
HB 137 |
| AGDC Board Factsheet.pdf |
SRES 3/28/2016 3:30:00 PM |
Board Appointments-AGDC |
| AGDC-Resume-Luke Hopkins.pdf |
SRES 3/28/2016 3:30:00 PM |
Board Appointments-AGDC |
| HB137 Responses to Questions for Senate Resources 3-28-16.pdf |
SRES 3/28/2016 3:30:00 PM |
HB 137 |
| HB137-Revenue Analysis-DFG-3-28-2016.pdf |
SRES 3/28/2016 3:30:00 PM |
HB 137 |