Legislature(2015 - 2016)BUTROVICH 205
02/29/2016 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB170 | |
| HB137 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 170 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 137 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 137-HUNT/FISH/TRAP: FEES;LICENSES;EXEMPTIONS
3:59:45 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL announced consideration of HB 137. [CSHB 137(FIN)
am, version 29-LS0625\S.A, was before the committee.]
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO, Alaska State Legislature, described HB
137. He said the bill raises license fees for fishing, trapping,
and combination licenses "to help deal with the deficiency we
currently have." It provides for a small increase in fees to
residents and a more significant increase to nonresidents. HB
137 also changes the qualifying threshold for low income
licenses to meet the most recent federal poverty guidelines.
Currently, low income is set at a level of under $8,200 a year.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO stated that the bill allows for a
voluntary fish and game conservation decal for those who don't
hunt or fish. He noted that the current surcharge on the fishing
license would continue after the hatchery bonds have been paid,
and that money would be available to the Alaska Department of
Fish and Game (ADF&G). The bill also changes the eligibility age
for [free lifetime licenses] from 60 to 62 years, and it would
need to be renewed every three years to ensure that only those
who remain in the state qualify for that license. Additionally,
he said, HB 137 changes the age for a license from 16 to 18
years, and it allows residents to hunt or fish on behalf of a
person with a disability. He noted that it has been 17 years
since nonresident fees have been raised and over 24 years for
resident fees. This bill is to continue providing opportunities
for Alaskans by giving the Department of Fish and Game enough
money, he stated.
4:03:52 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO said he has been paying $48 for a
combination license for many years. At current inflation, it
should be valued at $124, but he does not suggest that the fee
follows inflation.
4:04:35 PM
JOSHUA BANKS, Staff to Representative Talerico, Alaska State
Legislature, said Section 1 of HB 137 repeals the authority to
use the fish and game fund for fish hatchery bonds once the
bonds are paid off. Section 2 amends the qualifying ages for
special fishery openings. Section 3 raises the resident sport
fishing fee from $15 to $20 and the fee for blind residents from
$0.25 to $0.50. Section 4 eliminates the $9 surcharge on
resident fishing license fees once fish hatchery bonds are paid.
4:06:32 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked when hatchery bonds will be paid off.
MR. BANKS said he did not know. Section 9 and 11 accomplish the
same thing as Section 3 for the resident combination licenses,
as do Sections 13 and 15 for nonresident licenses. He noted that
Section 5 raises the resident hunting license from $25 to $30,
and Section 6 raises the resident hunting and trapping
combination license. The resident trapping license is raised in
Section 7, and Section 8 raises the resident hunting and fishing
combination license from $39 to $45.
4:08:06 PM
MR. BANKS said that Section 10 raises the resident hunting,
trapping, and fishing license fee and changes eligibility for
low income purchasers. The bill eliminates language that allow
residents who receive state or federal welfare to purchase a low
income license unless they [are below] the federal poverty
level.
CHAIR GIESEL asked for the current poverty guidelines.
MR. BANKS said it depends family size. He said Sections 11 and
13 add the $9 surcharge to certain licenses. Sections 14, 16,
and 17 raises nonresident licenses. Section 18 raises
nonresident big game tags.
4:11:18 PM
MR. BANKS explained that Section 19 raises the waterfowl
conservation tag from $5 to $10 and makes conforming amendments
regarding age eligibility. He said Section 20 raises nonresident
small game hunting fees, Sections 21 and 22 raise nonresident
alien license fees and tags, and Section 23 raises the resident
king salmon tag, as well as making conforming amendments.
4:13:31 PM
MR. BANKS said Section 24 raises the nonresident king salmon
tags, and Section 25 creates the fish and game conservation
decal. Section 26 increases the age at which a license is
required, from 16 years to 18 years, and requires a resident to
be 62 years or older before qualifying for a permanent license,
and requires renewal every three years. Sections 27 through 31
are conforming amendments. He added that Section 32 repeals all
sections related fish hatchery bonds and the sport fishing
surcharge, and Section 33 allows residents who are currently
eligible and receiving the permanent license to remain eligible.
Section 34 created codified language conforming to the full
repayment of the hatchery bonds. Section 35 is applicability
language related to the commissioner of Alaska Department of
Fish and Game and the Revisor of Statutes. Section 37 contains
the applicable effective dates for the prior sections.
4:17:27 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked about changing the effective date.
MR. BANKS suggested changing it from January 1, 2016 to January
1, 2017.
SENATOR STOLTZE asked if paying off the debt service will be
irrelevant to a person paying for the license. He asked for
confirmation if the language will effectively keep the $9
hatchery bond surcharge even after the bond has been fully paid.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO said yes.
SENATOR STOLTZE noted that it is only relevant to the
department, which can use the surcharge elsewhere. He asked if
"blind" is the correct terminology, and how it is defined.
MR. BANKS said he did not know.
CHAIR GIESSEL noted that this is existing language and suggested
asking the department.
SENATOR STOLTZE surmised the term may be "visually-impaired."
4:19:53 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if there are benefits to a person
buying a conservation decal.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO said the benefit is supporting wildlife
conservation.
SENATOR STOLTZE asked about the Carlson decision [Carlson v.
State] and its ramifications.
MR. BANKS said he provided a legal opinion to the members (tab 9
in the binder). He explained that the Carlson cases dealt with
unequal fees charged for commercial fishing [on nonresidents],
raising the issue of license fee inequality among American
citizens who are residents of different states. The legal
opinion points to a case in Montana where the US Supreme Court
allowed nonresident sport hunters and fishers to be charged over
25 times more than residents.
SENATOR STOLTZE said he does not know the parameters, "so we'd
be into some new ground."
CHAIR GIESSEL opined that legislative attorneys often give
uncertain answers to legal questions.
SENATOR STOLTZE said that they tell legislators to figure it
out.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he appreciates getting the legal
opinion, which does state that the U.S. Supreme Court upheld
sport hunting fees for elk that were more than 25 times the fee
for a resident. Additionally, the opinion explains that states
can charge nonresidents so high as to discourage them from the
activity. He noted that his constituents are concerned about the
incredible nonresident pressure on the fishing resources in
Kenai and "up north" to the Matanuska Valley, and he has heard
mention of a $10 tag for nonresidents.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO said he has been approached by a lot of
constituents saying that, at the very least, nonresidents are
not contributing enough. There are others who believe that
nonresidents should not even "be allowed to wet a line." Then
there is the business community that recognizes the economic
impact of nonresidents and striking a balance.
4:24:49 PM
SENATOR STOLTZE stated that he thought fees on black bears could
be lowered or waived, because he sees the bears as infestations
in some areas.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO said he does not live in black bear
country, but he would be open to suggestions from the Department
of Fish and Game.
4:26:47 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL invited witnesses to speak.
4:27:09 PM
KEVIN BROOKS, Deputy Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish and
Game (ADF&G), said that ADF&G would benefit from HB 137. The
department appreciates the sponsor for introducing the bill. It
has been about 25 years since fees have been increased, and the
department has programs where the money could be used.
4:28:50 PM
SAM COTTEN, Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish and Game,
expressed strong support for HB 137. Meeting constitutional and
statutory obligations will be greatly enhanced with its passage,
he stated. The Division of Wildlife will be able to support
intensive management programs, because capital improvement funds
will be exhausted at some point. There are gaps in game
management survey and inventory efforts, including population
estimates for moose, bears, wolves, caribou, and others. Many
areas and many species lack in surveys, and HB 137 will enhance
those efforts.
4:31:42 PM
COMMISSIONER COTTEN said state management authority has been
eroded by the National Park Service and US Fish and Wildlife
Service. Money will help ADF&G work with the Department of Law
[to address those issues]. Another area of underfunding is the
84 advisory committees, which is the primary opportunity for
public participation in the management system. General funds of
$8 million are always at risk, although he does not want to just
replace the general funds with fish and game funds. He noted
that there are a lot of federal dollars, Pittman-Robertson
funds, which may go unclaimed if the department cannot match
them. He spoke of a need for funds for fish assessments and
enhancements. Invasive species, such as the northern pike, are
wreaking havoc on native species, especially salmon stocks, so
funding those programs will be very important, as will funding
for stream habitat rehabilitation.
4:35:05 PM
SENATOR STOLTZE asked if the department would waive fees for
hunting black bears in some areas where the species is
overpopulated.
COMMISSIONER COTTEN thanked Senator Stoltze for his vote of
confidence on the bear management issues, and said it is logical
and more cost efficient and effective method to waive hunting
fees where there are efforts to get rid of predators.
4:36:17 PM
BRUCE DALE, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, Alaska
Department of Fish and Game, said the Board of Game has
authority to waive bear tag fees and in fact does that when it
wants to increase bear hunting.
SENATOR STOLTZE asked the cost of relocating a black bear from
Government Hill to "where they're now wandering around."
COMMISSIONER COTTEN said there was one bear that got away but is
unlikely to be alive. He said he does not know the cost.
MR. BROOKS referred to some earlier questions and said that the
state bond manager would say [the fish hatchery bonds] will be
paid off in 2023. They have been paid at an advanced rate, and
"we've done some early payoff of the debt," so the bonds might
be paid by 2021, he added. Every year, the department issues
about 19,000 poverty-level licenses for $5, he noted. A person
who earns less than $8,200 or anyone who has received public
assistance of any kind is eligible, and most people who get the
license qualify based on receiving public assistance. The
current federal poverty level for a family of four is $30,000.
There is no process to require verification. As a comparison,
there currently are 1,000 license vendors around the state, and
the agency does not check tax returns "or anything." He said he
will check on the use of the term "blind."
4:39:23 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE asked why resident game tags are not being
increased.
MR. BROOKS said the department was not involved in setting new
fees. Several sporting groups gave input, he noted.
CHAIR GIESSEL asked if there are licenses in the bill that are
no longer issued.
MR. BROOKS said he can provide a table of licenses sold. He told
the committee that the Carlson court case, and the differential
between resident and nonresident usage, dealt with interstate
commerce and does not apply to recreational licenses. Already a
nonresident pays $100 for a license and a resident only pays
$15, and nonresidents pay for tags to take big game, and
residents generally pay nothing.
4:41:53 PM
SENATOR STOLTZE asked how many wolverines are taken annually.
MR. DALE said he does not have the number, but he will find
them. Buying tags is different than actually taking a wolverine.
Many nonresidents buy tags and would like that rare opportunity.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked how Alaska's fees compare to those in
other states.
MR. BROOKS said Alaska licenses are low compared to other
western states. "It's a pretty darn good deal." He has a
comparison chart that he can provide to the committee.
SENATOR STOLTZE asked if there was an "analysis of opportunity."
He said deer are practically infestations in a lot of places,
and has heard that a million and a half deer hunters show up on
opening day in rural Pennsylvania. "Your chances for a deer in
the lower-48 is certainly higher than the average person has for
a moose or a brown bear or a Dall sheep." He added that the big
trophy value is subjective, but the average person does not get
the big trophy.
4:44:42 PM
MR. BROOKS said he has listened to different sport hunter
groups, and they have analyzed tag fees versus opportunities.
MR. DALE explained that comparisons are made with western states
and Canada with similar species. But regarding species like
deer, many nonresidents do not see them as just deer, but they
see them as Sitka black-tailed deer, and they come to Alaska to
hunt them. He stated that the fees appear to be reasonable.
SENATOR STOLTZE said Mr. Dale's response was subjective, and he
does not think there is much evidence that the fees are
reasonable.
SENATOR MICCICHE asked about the legality of sockeye salmon tags
for nonresidents only.
MR. BROOKS stated that there are fees for big game tags for
nonresidents but not residents, but he can ask the Department of
Law.
4:47:50 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE pointed out the document from Legislative Legal
stating in the Kemp case that North Dakota could exclude all
nonresident hunters of migratory waterfowl when it was necessary
to protect waterfowl from over hunting. He surmised that fish
and game can be managed by not allowing nonresident users in
some cases.
SENATOR STOLTZE said economic studies show that there is value
in king salmon. He suggested charging a conservation fee for
accidentally gillnetted King salmon that could go to the Sport
Fish Division.
4:49:22 PM
MR. BROOKS said there have been discussions on taxing bycatch,
but king salmon are caught legally by commercial fisheries.
COMMISSIONER COTTEN said bycatch includes unintended and
sometimes prohibited species, but a king salmon caught in a
gillnet intended for other salmon is legal. To charge for those
fish would involve the Board of Fish and would be a legal
question. Management tries to keep the number of gill-net caught
king salmon very low.
SENATOR STOLTZE said some people try to do their best, but some
consider [catching king salmon] as part of their plan. The
economic value of the king salmon entering the river is
"thousands of dollars" more, he stated.
COMMISSIONER COTTEN said the current management plan on the
Kenai is very strict on ensuring a projected return before
additional effort is allowed by the set net fisheries. He
believes that Senator Stoltze is asking a legal question that he
is uncomfortable answering.
SENATOR STOLTZE noted that he would never ask a moral question.
SENATOR MICCICHE said he is very interested in taxing bycatch.
This bill may not be the place for it, but he would like to
create disincentives for catching nontargeted species,
particularly in offshore fisheries, which impacts all of us.
4:53:36 PM
CHARLES DERRICK, President, Chitina Dipnetters Association
(CDA), Fairbanks, Alaska, said the CDA proposes a $15 fee to
obtain a personal-use Chitina dipnet permit to raise funds for
road, garbage, and toilet maintenance. About 10,000 permits are
issued each year for the fishery, which is managed by ADF&G
separate from other personal-use fisheries. The association is
not advocating for a fee on all personal-use fisheries, but it
has been seeking state funds to clear landslides on sections of
the state-owned Copper River highway right-of-way between
O'Brien Creek and Hailey Creek. This is the main ground access
to the fishery, and it is limited to all-terrain vehicles.
Several vehicles have tumbled into the river [because of the
landslide debris]. Prior to 2002, the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities (DOT) routinely cleared
these hazards, and with funding, the department is willing to
continue, he explained. He added that DOT has also borne the
expense of contracting garbage and toilet maintenance in the
area. Considering Alaska's financial difficulties, he said, the
association is trying to be proactive in ensuring adequate
facilities and maintenance by requesting the $15 fee.
CHAIR GIESSEL lauded the idea and said her husband is a Chitina
dipnetter.
4:57:04 PM
NANCY HILLSTRAND, representing herself, Kachemak Bay, Alaska,
said she supports "the emblem idea," and she suggested a $5
entry-level license for wildlife observers. People will get used
to the idea that if they come to watch wildlife, they should pay
for it. She suggested a $20 license for commercial photographers
and guides, because they benefit economically from Alaska's
wildlife. There are 900,000 cruise ship passengers that visit
Alaska each year, and with a $5 fee for each person, "we could
make close to $5 million." Local artists are willing to donate
their art for the license, and it will be a souvenir. The
license would be purchased online and printed by purchasers, so
there would be no cost to ADF&G. She added that she supports
raising prices for hunters, and she believes that the fee
exemption should start at 65 years of age, not 62. These people
have the money, and most would want to contribute to ADF&G's
efforts, she opined.
CHAIR GIESSEL asked Ms. Hillstrand to send her suggestions in
writing. She noted the time and apologized to 11 other people
who signed up to testify and told them that the committee will
hear the bill again in about two weeks.
[HB 137 was held in committee.]
5:00:46 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Giessel adjourned the meeting at 5:00 p.m.