Legislature(2011 - 2012)BARNES 124
02/09/2011 03:15 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB126 | |
| HB125 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 126 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 125 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 125-ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL BOARD
3:31:15 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced that the final order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 125, "An Act moving the Alcoholic Beverage
Control Board to the Department of Commerce, Community, and
Economic Development and relating to duties of that department;
and providing for an effective date."
3:33:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE HAWKER, Alaska State Legislature, stated he
is the current Chair of the Legislative Budget and Audit (LB&A)
Committee. The LB&A Committee sponsored HB 125 as a policy
bill, which resulted from the LB&A Committee's work during the
last legislature. He predicted the previous bill, HB 126, which
would extend the ABC Board, will pass the legislature. However,
some issues arose during the legislative audit process of the
ABC Board, he said. During its one-year extension, the LB&A
created a subcommittee to review and decide where the ABC Board
should be domiciled in state government, which he said he
thought of as one of the more contentious issues the LB&A
Committee would consider this legislature. He provided a brief
history of the ABC Board. He stated that the ABC Board was
previously located in the Department of Revenue (DOR) since its
primary function was viewed as a revenue collection function.
He pointed out that alcohol taxes are one of the more
significant revenue sources to the state. In 2003, at the
request of the executive branch, the ABC Board was moved to
Department of Public Safety (DPS), where over time it is been
viewed as an extension of the criminal law enforcement actions
in the state. Over the course of a summer's worth of
subcommittee hearings, the LB&A's subcommittee considered
whether the DPS is the correct domicile based on the ABC Board's
mission, he said. The committee considered whether the ABC
Board's basic function should be as a law enforcement agency or
if its function is more a function of the regulation of business
and commerce, and if so, whether it should be housed in the
Department of Commerce, Community, & Economic Development
(DCCED). He remarked that agencies take on the character of
their domicile. Thus, when the ABC Board was housed in the DOR,
its focus was to collect revenue and to ensure alcohol taxes
were paid. He offered his belief that perhaps the ABC Board's
law enforcement activities were less emphasized during that
time.
3:37:08 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER said that once the ABC Board was relocated
to the Department of Public Safety (DPS), some people believe it
has effectively become an investigation and prosecutorial
activity of the state. Some also believe the ABC Board has lost
sight of its primary mission as a regulator of a legitimate
industry in the state. He reported the LB&A's subcommittee took
testimony this past summer, reached a concurrence, and made
recommendations to the LB&A. He referred to a one-page report
from LB&A Committee in members packets. He emphasized that
while the LB&A agrees the ABC Board needs to maintain its
liaison with the law enforcement community to administer the
criminal aspects of the alcohol business in the state, the
hospitality industry is a legitimate and sanctioned industry in
Alaska. He said it should first and foremost be part of the
DCCED along with all other commerce regulating boards. He
further stated the LB&A's subcommittee recommended that the
industry would be best served in DCCED. He related that there
were no objections by the LB&A Committee to bring forward this
proposal for further legislative consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER suggested this may be one of the most
controversial bills that this committee will hear this year.
Some people, including those who must contend with the ill
effects of alcohol in our communities, possess a strong belief
that the ABC Board's first and primary obligation is
enforcement. They maintain that the ABC Board should focus on
criminally related aspects. Additionally, he anticipated that
the hospitality industry may view that all purveyors of alcohol
are being "cast as bad guys." Some purveyors may testify that
the the ABC Board is being managed and operated by using a
presumption of guilt. They may also view the industry as
inherently evil, viewing every purveyor of alcohol as an
inherent criminal. However, he maintained this industry is
legally sanctioned by statute and is heavily regulated by the
state. The "good guys," those parties who operate legitimately,
want to be fairly treated and not be treated as inherently
criminal parties, he stated. He said the committee will hear
from both sides and will ultimately decide whether or not to
move this proposal forward. He likened the process as similar
to a court trial process. He said he hoped the committee will
be able to point to sufficient arguments for both sides and
urged members to bring HB 125 to the floor of the House for a
vote.
CHAIR OLSON remarked that it will take time to hear from the
parties and to take public input. He said this matter is an
important one to consider.
3:42:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER, in closing, offered his belief that the
health and social services and the law enforcement communities
believe in an approach that is essentially a "cops, courts, and
cages" approach. However, the hospitality industry is an
industry that does not believe it is currently being well served
by the ABC Board as it exists in the DPS. He commented that the
industry further believes that the ABC Board has been overly
zealous in its persecution of a legal industry. He acknowledged
that he has frequently been viewed as "a go to guy" for law
enforcement issues. Yet, he concluded that he is satisfied an
overzealous approach has emerged with the ABC Board domiciled
under the DPS. This industry should be able to ask questions of
the board but cannot since asking for clarification on the law
would be similar to a person walking into Alaska State Troopers
(AST) office and admitting he/she just robbed a bank. He
described growing tension within the industry since the ABC
Board chooses to prosecute parties instead of offering them
guidance on compliance with the state's alcohol laws.
3:44:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MILLER said he assumed that none of the ABC
Board's laws governing administration or policies would be
changed but HB 125 would merely shift the ABC Board's
responsibility and jurisdiction to the DCCED.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER agreed. He clarified that under the bill,
the ABC Board's domicile or home would be moved from DPS to
DCCED. He suggested the main question is to identify the ABC
Board's primary purpose and then decide whether the industry is
best managed as an arm of DPS or as part of the DCCED. He
reiterated that HB 125 does not make any changes in
responsibilities for the sale or consumption of alcohol.
REPRESENTATIVE MILLER related he has received numerous calls
advocating for each side. He described HB 125 as a short and
simple bill.
3:46:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether a new division would be
created in the DCCED under the bill and also asked for
clarification on the overall structure.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER stated that HB 125 would move the ABC
Board to the DCCED, but any changes to the DCCED's specific
organization chart could better be described by the department.
In further response to Representative Saddler, he said he was
uncertain whether the ABC Board's physical location would
change. He also acknowledged his concern over the fiscal notes.
He remarked that the department's fiscal notes needed additional
scrutiny and improvement.
3:48:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER said he had expected to see a decrement
reflected in the DPS the fiscal note.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER agreed. He said he was disappointed in
the lack of fiscal notes since HB 125 was introduced some time
ago. He stated that some state agencies have not produced
fiscal notes. He reiterated his concern about the DPS fiscal
note.
3:49:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked whether anything in HB 125 would
prevent an enforcement officer from enforcing minor consumption
laws, conducting "stings", or any other enforcement activities.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER answered absolutely not, noting that the
LB&A's subcommittee report did not recommend any reduction in
enforcement responsibilities of the ABC Board or the DPS's
support for such enforcement activities.
CHAIR OLSON reported that he has known the next witness, Shirley
Gifford, for many years, noting she previously served as police
chief in his community.
3:50:39 PM
SHIRLEY GIFFORD, Director, Alcoholic Beverage Control Board (ABC
Board), highlighted her relevant work experience. She stated
that she served on the ABC Board prior to being selected as its
director. She previously owned a private training and
consulting business, which has given her an understanding of the
importance of succeeding in one's own business, she said.
Additionally, she previously served as the chief of police for
the Soldotna Police Department, as well as having served for 20
years with the Anchorage Police Department (APD), retiring as
captain, she said. In 2003, the ABC Board was relocated from
the DOR to DPS in order to place the ABC Board under an agency
that could better oversee its alcohol and enforcement functions.
She offered her belief that this was a good move. She spoke in
opposition to HB 126. She detailed her service on other boards,
including serving as a board member on the Strategic Prevention
Framework State Incentive Grant (SPF SIG), the plan to reduce
underage drinking, and the Alaska Strategic Highway Planning,
with its primary emphasis on underage drinking. She reported
that underage drinking has been a costly problem in the state
for some time. She stressed the cost to the state is huge. In
2005, the cost associated with underage drinking was $315.5
million. She offered her support for the ABC Board's compliance
check program. She disagreed that the ABC Board is as broken as
was portrayed by the LB&A committee's report. She surmised that
the LB&A's committee likely heard from a small segment of the
industry that is convinced the ABC Board is "too hard on them."
The ABC Board has made tremendous improvements in its compliance
check program and has met the audit recommendations, including
developing written policy and procedures as well as an
enforcement strategic plan.
3:54:09 PM
MS. GIFFORD said that the ABC Board has since identified
measureable goals and is currently on track to meet them. She
offered her belief that transferring responsibility to another
agency would be costly, would result in inefficiencies, and
would likely require substantial effort to physically move the
office. Last legislature, the ABC Board prepared written
compliance check policy and procedures (P&P) in response to a
request by a legislator. The P&P was submitted to the
legislature and since she did not receive any feedback she took
that to be positive. She noted the P&P incorporated changes
suggested by the Cabaret Hotel Restaurant & Retailers
Association (CHARR), including requiring random selection checks
instead of performing compliance checks "bar by bar." She
explained the selection process the investigators use. The ABC
Board's computer program randomly selects up 35 licensees in
Alaska's larger communities for the investigator to check. In
smaller communities such as Nome, the investigator would simply
conduct as many compliance checks as possible. Once the
establishment has been checked, another compliance check would
not be performed on the licensee during the remainder of the
year, unless the bar/liquor store failed the initial compliance
check. In those instances, the establishment would be revisited
to ensure that underage drinking was not happening, she stated.
Some licensees hold several licenses, such as "Chilkoot
Charlie's" in Anchorage. Some licensees complained that more
than one compliance check was being conducted so the ABC Board
pulled duplicate licenses from its system to help ensure that
only one compliance check is performed per establishment each
year. Not all licensees are checked each year, she noted. In
2010, the ABC Board only performed compliance checks on 46
percent of licensees, she reported.
3:57:35 PM
MS. GIFFORD asserted that the ABC Board's goal is to implement a
fair and objective method for its compliance checks. She
provided the ABC Board's goals for compliance checks, including
its goal to check 75 percent of the licensees in Anchorage, 50
percent in Fairbanks and Juneau, and approximately 25 percent
for any on-road and off-road establishments. The number of
compliance checks for rural areas are less since fewer licensees
are located in rural areas. Additionally, the investigator's
travel is more costly to travel to rural areas, she said.
MS. GIFFORD related that investigators in Juneau and Fairbanks
work with the Alaska State Troopers. Currently, the Juneau
investigator has been working with the AST on the Aleutian Chain
communities. By using the AST airplane when visiting rural
Alaska communities, an investigator can cover over a dozen
communities in a 13-hour shift. She remarked that some
licensees commented they had not previously been subject to
compliance checks. Recently the ABC Board's investigator
assisted the licensees in Tanana and McGrath with their
paperwork and helped them comply with other requirements, such
as signage. The investigator did not write any citations but
provided training instead. When the ABC Board receives a
complaint, an investigator is duty bound to investigate the
complaint. She stressed that the ABC Board's investigators
assist owners in complying with the alcohol laws every day.
4:00:37 PM
MS. GIFFORD asserted the ABC Board's philosophy and primary
mission, is to assist owners and help applicants comply with
liquor laws. She disagreed that its mission has been to create
barriers and prevent issuance of liquor licenses. She
highlighted beneficial changes the ABC board has made, including
an assessment method to evaluate potential underage buyers. She
used a panel of people to "assess" the underage buyers ages
since it's important that underage buyers clearly appear to be
underage. The ABC Board's Board of Director's group was
comprised of five citizens, including three public members and
two industry representatives. The panel tried to guess the ages
of the eleven potential underage buyers and if anyone appeared
to be of legal age, he/she was not used for "sting" operations.
Sometimes underage buyers were used for other operations, such
as for "shoulder taps," which are situations in which an
underage person randomly asks someone to buy liquor for them,
after telling the potential buyer that he/she is underage. If
the person being solicited during a "shoulder tap" buys liquor
for the underage person, the buyer would be cited.
4:02:12 PM
MS. GIFFORD added that people who purchase alcohol for underage
teenagers often have lengthy criminal histories. She described
other efforts the ABC Board has taken to improve its enforcement
activities, such as separating out inspections from compliance
checks in an effort to reduce the appearance of "trying to catch
someone" who has passed their compliance check but has signage
or other administrative issues. When an investigator observes
signage or other issues during a compliance check, the
investigator and area investigator would conduct a separate site
check to help the owner correct any issues, she said. She
reported that the ABC Board has four investigators and one
enforcement unit supervisor to cover the entire state. Thus,
the ABC Board relies on local police and the Alaska State
Troopers (AST) to assist them in enforcing liquor laws under
Title 4, she advised. Since license fees are returned to the
local police department, the ABC Board can request that the
department not refund any license fees collected until the
liquor laws are enforced. She related an incident in which it
was necessary to remind a police chief to enforce the liquor
laws or lose the grant monies.
MS. GIFFORD offered her belief the ABC Board's staff experiences
excellent communications with police departments. The DPS also
shares its proprietary information and allows the ABC Board's
investigators to accompany AST on the DPS aircraft, which saves
the ABC Board about $10,000 per year in travel costs incurred.
She offered his belief that the DPS charges other departments'
personnel for travel costs.
MS. GIFFORD acknowledged some people have expressed
dissatisfaction with compliance checks since no one likes
getting cited, but the ABC Board has the responsibility to hold
licensees accountable. She pointed out that frequently
investigators issue a notice of violation without imposing any
fine.
4:06:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON recalled that in 2005, the cost for
underage drinking in Alaska was $315.5 million. He asked
whether she thought the ABC Board's efforts to curb underage
drinking were successful.
MS. GIFFORD answered that the figures were obtained from the
Plan to Prevent Underage Drinking. In further response to
Representative Johnson, she agreed that the cost is a huge cost
to the state and she did not consider the cost of underage
drinking as a success.
CHAIR OLSON clarified that the 2005 figures relate strictly to
the costs associated with underage drinking.
4:07:44 PM
MS. GIFFORD outlined categories of problems associated with
underage drinking, including youth violence, youth traffic
crashes, high-risk sex ages 14-20, youth property crime, youth
injury, poisonings and psychoses, fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS)
among mothers ages 15 to 20, and youth alcohol treatment.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON offered his belief that the state's
enforcement efforts are not working.
MS. GIFFORD speculated that if the ABC Board were to "let up" on
its enforcement efforts that the potential exists for the
problem to escalate even more.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked what would change besides reduced
transportation costs, which the state currently absorbs through
another department, for the ABC Board if it were relocated to
DPS. The job responsibilities would be consistent, he remarked.
He also asked what would cause the ABC Board to "let up."
MS. GIFFORD said she hoped the enforcement efforts would not
"let up." She expressed concern that by relocating the ABC
Board to the DCCED, the working relationship with the DPS would
change. She stressed that the ABC Board has developed a close
working relationship the AST and local police. She offered an
example of cooperative work, noting she maintains a registration
list of people not allowed to import or possess alcohol, while
the AST investigates any suspected bootlegging. She expressed
concern that changing the department's oversight could result in
a loss of communication. She offered her belief that she also
gains credibility by being housed with DPS. She recalled
auditors questioned how she knew the AS alcohol statutes were
being enforced and she answered that she knew the laws were
being enforced because police departments have a duty to enforce
laws. She was not certain whether the auditors would have
accepted her answer if the ABC Board had been housed at DCCED.
She recalled being invited to serve on an Alaska Crime Reporting
Committee, which she felt was due to her affiliation with the
DPS and the law enforcement community. "As much as people would
like to say that nothing will change, I absolutely believe
things will change," she said.
4:11:17 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked her to confirm whether license
checks are randomly selected by a computer program and once
checked that the licensee is aware that no additional compliance
checks will occur for the remainder of the year.
MS. GIFFORD agreed, but noted one exception, such that in the
event a complaint is filed that the ABC Board would take further
action to investigate the complaint. In further response to
Representative Saddler, she agreed the licensees are aware of
the one compliance check per year.
4:12:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON asked for clarification on communication
changes, since the liquor laws and ABC Board's regulations would
not be changed. He offered his belief that communication is
pretty simple in our electronic world.
MS. GIFFORD recalled grappling with the fiscal impact since the
ABC Board would need to get past the DPS's firewall in order to
access information. She pointed out the DPS must protect
people's names and backgrounds, which cannot be shared
publically, but all of the ABC Board's work is public
information. The ABC Board also uses the Alaska Public
Information Network and she was unsure of how the transfer to
DPS would affect access to confidential information.
4:13:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON stated that having served as a mayor, he
has personally observed compliance checks in Fairbanks, but has
never observed the AST or local police involved with compliance
officers.
MS. GIFFORD recalled during her tenure as the Soldotna Police
Chief, prior to being hired by the ABC Board that the police
department performed the compliance checks. She reiterated that
the Juneau investigator works with the compliance officers on
compliance checks. She indicated that two investigators are now
armed, but prior to achieving that status the officers were
accompanied by the city police or AST troopers. She noted that
when officers were not available, the compliance officers often
work alone. She remarked that the ABC Board investigators
attend police department briefings and train at the police
academies. She reiterated that four investigators cover the
statewide work.
4:15:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked for clarification on the ABC
Board's investigator training and certification, specifically as
it relates specifically to investigators who carry weapons.
MS. GIFFORD answered that the investigators are bound by the
AST's operating procedures manual. She stated that the
investigators must qualify at the firing range annually, noting
that those who carry weapons are those who have not been out of
police work for longer than three years. She explained that one
investigator previously served as a Juneau Police Department
(JPD) officer, and one transferred from the AST to the ABC
Board. The ABC Board's investigators adhere to the same
qualifications as an AST trooper, she said. In further response
to Representative Saddler, she explained that it is not a
requirement, but the ABC Board has adopted the Alaska Police
Standards Council's requirements for qualification.
Investigators who have not served within three years must attend
a two-week police academy and those who have not actively served
for ten years, must attend a full police academy, she said.
4:17:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether the division provides the
investigators with weapons.
MS. GIFFORD answered yes. In further response to Representative
Saddler, she responded that the ABC Board's investigators train
at the range four times a year, and qualify once annually.
4:17:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MILLER asked whether statistics were available
prior to 2003 that demonstrate the ABC Board functions more
efficiently in one department over the other.
MS. GIFFORD answered no. She explained she revamped statistics
since the compliance checks were previously compared to the
number of licenses instead of to the number of checks conducted.
She said she has reliable statistics for the past three years,
but does not have prior statistics for the compliance program.
She elaborated fees collected are directed to local police
agencies to cover overtime costs, but currently grant funds to
enforce underage drinking laws fund a fulltime investigator.
She offered to further research the ABC Board statistics.
4:19:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MILLER asked her to review the basic primary
enforcement activity for compliance checks when the ABC Board
receives a complaint.
MS. GIFFORD responded that when a complaint is received, often
from another licensee, she arranges for underage buyers to
attempt to buy alcohol using their own identification. The
underage buyers do not use fake identification nor does she ask
the underage buyer to dress up to look older. The reason for
the compliance check is to ensure that the licensee is not
selling to underage buyers. If an establishment sells to an
underage buyer the investigator writes a summons. If the
establishment refuses to sell to the ABC Board's underage buyer
then the clerk or bartender will receive a "congratulation
card". In further response to Representative Miller, she agreed
that if the bartender or clerk sold to an underage person the
ABC Board's investigator would cite the person selling liquor.
She acknowledged that sometimes the barkeeper will call his/her
manager but the investigator would not require he/she to do so
since the board is not involved in the owner/manager
disciplinary actions.
4:23:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MILLER asked for clarification of instances in
which people are "carded" at the door. He assumed the person
buying a drink would need to have identification checked again
at bar.
MS. GIFFORD answered that if an establishment has a system to
check identification at the door, the bartender does not
normally recheck the client's identification unless he/she
suspects the person buying alcohol is underage.
4:23:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked for clarification, on whether the
ABC Board would have access to public safety system if it was
moved to the DCCED.
MS. GIFFORD said she is not aware that the DPS would allow other
departments to use their system. In further response to
Representative Seaton, she agreed to verify the policy.
4:25:09 PM
ELLEN GANLEY, Public Member, Alcoholic Beverage Control Board
(ABC Board), stated that she serves as the Vice Chair of the ABC
Board and previously served on the ABC board for over ten years.
She explained that she was originally appointed due to her
public health background. She asked to speak in opposition to
HB 125, stating it would not be a good idea to move the ABC
Board to DCCED. She asserted that DPS has been a good fit for
the board. When she first started serving on the ABC board, it
was housed in DOR and had a number of problems. When the ABC
Board moved to DPS it seemed like a better fit above and beyond
its basic licensing responsibilities she said. The ABC Board
relies heavily on local police and AST for enforcement of liquor
laws. She further said that it has led to positive interaction
between the board and DPS. She recalled at the last ABC Board
meeting the new DPS Commissioner and AST Director attended in
order to discuss common issues.
4:27:46 PM
MS. GANLEY said the cost to relocate, in terms of staff time and
money, would result in a loss of focus in the ABC Board's role.
She addressed compliance checks, stating that 98 to 99 percent
of its licensees are good licensees and operate good businesses.
She acknowledged that the industry has been unhappy about
compliance checks, but stressed the importance of enforcement
since alcohol abuse is Alaska's most pressing public health and
public safety issue. She also recalled that early on the
failure rate in Fairbanks for compliance checks was fairly high,
ranging about 50 percent, which mean lots of underage people
were being served in licensed premises. She surmised that
serving minors was not due to maliciousness or for business
reasons, but was simply because bartenders or servers were not
checking licenses for proof of age. In recent years the ABC
Board has seen rate of licensees passing compliance increase.
She said people under 21 are finding it more difficult to buy
alcohol in licensed premises, which she viewed as a good thing
since it goes beyond DPS policy and the ABC Board's policy and
translates to good public health policy. One of the
cornerstones of public health is surveillance and control of
disease, air, and water quality. She observed that once
enforcement activities are effective and surveillance is
reduced, that eventually the problems would resurface and
escalate. In closing, she said that "she really would hate to
see that happen."
4:30:28 PM
JOHN LUCKING, Chief of Police; President; Alaska Peace Officers
Association (APOA), stated that the APOA represents over a
thousand law enforcement officers, correctional officers, and
probation officers in Alaska. The APOA furthers fraternizing
among coworkers and provide training. He related that an APOA
committee tracks legislation. The APOA's subcommittee recently
met and is adamantly opposed to HB 125, which would move the ABC
Board to the DCCED. He offered his belief that the move would
harm the continuity of enforcement and would challenge the
relationship between the ABC Board and other law enforcement
agencies. He has served in Alaska as Police Chief for 12 years
and as an officer for over 26 years. During this time he has
observed the ABC Board's operation under the DOR and the DPS.
CHIEF LUCKING offered his belief that the board has gained great
credibility in the "eyes of law enforcement." The ABC Board has
developed mutual trust, its staff participates in law
enforcement training, and many of its employees have a
background in law enforcement. The Soldotna Police Department
partners with ABC Board investigators and work hand-in-hand on
"shoulder taps." He related that he authorizes one of his
officers to don plain clothes to assist the ABC Board
investigator, which he said illustrates the level of trust
between his agency and the ABC Board under Director Gifford and
the DPS's Commissioner Masters. His agency's time, tools,
resources, and assistance are also shared with the ABC Board
while it operates under DPS. He characterized the relationship
as a "two-way street." The ABC Board's investigators are
invited to participate in the Soldotna police training because
of the shared function and common goals, which is reciprocated.
The ABC Board's investigators have also been "tapped" to
instruct and advise law enforcement in Alaska, with respect to
the statutes in AS 04.
CHIEF LUCKING remarked that voluntary compliance is much
preferred to catching someone doing something wrong. He said
that that the ABC Board could continue with the positive
reputation under the DPS, which enhances recruitment of
qualified people with good attitudes. He characterized the ABC
Board's staff as confident and professional. He said, "We're
happy with them." He related that the ABC Board's enforcement
actions should have little effect on legitimate operators, but
perhaps the [committee] is hearing from the vocal minority who
have had past issues. He asserted that the ABC Board's
enforcement brings accountability to violators, is a deterrent
to potential violators, and represents an opportunity to address
issues before problems result. He said, "I can tell you and
show you laws and give you all kinds of numbers about how much
police time in my community is invested because of alcohol."
4:35:54 PM
CHAIR OLSON acknowledged that the Soldotna Police Department
conducts the compliance checks in Soldotna.
CHIEF LUCKING responded that his department partners with ABC
Board to conduct compliance checks. He recalled a time in which
the department conducted compliance checks through grants. He
said he much prefers the current situation.
4:36:37 PM
KEITH MALLARD, Division Director, Alaska State Troopers (AST),
Department of Public Safety (DPS), speaking from his prior
position as the Commander; Alaska Bureau of Alcohol & Drug
Enforcement (ABADE), said that he has enjoyed and counted on the
relationship to enforce bootlegging regulations in Western
Alaska.
CHAIR OLSON expressed his interest in hearing from the law
enforcement community and advised that the bill will have
another public hearing.
4:38:36 PM
BRAD JOHNSON, Deputy Chief, Fairbanks Police Department; Member,
Alaska Association of Chiefs of Police (AACOP), explained that
the AACOP represents nearly every local, state, and federal law
enforcement and corrections agency in Alaska. He referred to a
letter in members' packets, and read a portion of it, as
follows:
Our Board of Directors has reviewed HB 125's potential
impact on public safety. Our membership is in
opposition to moving the Alcoholic Beverage Control
Board from under the Department of Public Safety and
placing them under the Department of Commerce,
Community and Economic Development. We request that
you oppose this legislation and stop it from further
consideration within the House of Representatives.
CHIEF JOHNSON advised that AACOP feels this proposal is driven
by the alcohol industry which seeks to lessen the impact of
effective law enforcement on their activities. In our
communities we work closely with members of the alcohol service
industry and appreciate that the majority of them make every
effort to comply with regulation and law. Unfortunately, a few
have been less conscientious in these efforts and, as a result,
have been subject to legal action in the past. We suspect that
this latter group is largely behind this effort to weaken the
enforcement activities of the ABC Board by moving it to an
administrative division of the state government.
CHIEF JOHNSON related that public safety officers and executives
recognize the significant contribution the ABC Board makes to
the effort of reducing and preventing underage drinking when
alcohol continues to be purchased directly from licensed
premises by underage persons. Of all alcoholic beverage control
agencies across the nation the majority are either under public
safety or are independent departments or commissions.
4:41:37 PM
CHIEF JOHNSON continued by reading:
Municipalities must enforce Title 4 laws in order to
obtain the refunds of license fees in their
municipalities. The ABC Board, as part of DPS, is
actively participating in a joint effort to improve
local law enforcement's ability to report their
enforcement activity and document their efforts. He
said the ABC Board relies on local police and state
troopers in the enforcement of Title 4 and 13 AAC
regulations. With only four investigators to handle
all inspections, compliance checks, shoulder taps, and
investigations that arise out of violations, the ABC
Board depends on other law enforcement agencies for
enforcement. Although one could say this should not
change, it would. The structure has provided for good
communications and recognition that the ABC Board is
an important part of public safety. The credibility of
the ABC Board investigators comes with being employees
of DPS.
CHIEF JOHNSON concluded by reading:
For the safety of our communities and the continued,
uninterrupted, collaboration between the Alaska
Alcoholic Beverage Control Board and our respective
law enforcement agencies, we would appreciate your
support in assuring this bill does not pass. Thank
you for your consideration.
4:42:32 PM
DALE FOX, President and CEO, Alaska Cabaret, Hotel Restaurant
and Retailers Association (CHARR), thanked the Legislative
Budget and Audit Committee (LB&A) for spending countless hours
this summer on this issue. The LB&A concluded that moving the
ABC Board to the DCCED was a "smart move." He asked to address
two issues some of his opponents have raised. One is how to
address licensees as it relates to underage drinking, and
whether this proposed move would impact enforcement. He pointed
out underage drinking poses challenges for the industry and the
ABC Board, including how to educate and communicate with over
20,000 industry employees. He said that education combined with
enforcement is the answer. A few educational activities
developed by the industry include alcohol server training for
everyone involved in the service and sale of alcohol. Alaska is
only one of six states that has 100 percent alcohol server
training. He recommended "born on" calendars and stickers to
assist servers in doing the math to determine a buyer's age and
to use identification flip cards and point of sale materials in
multiple languages, which he asserted all work. A survey
conducted by the substance abuse and mental health services
administration showed that Alaska retailers are the best in
nation in refusing underage minors. He agreed that Alaska has
an underage drinking problem but that it does not from
retailers. Even though Alaska's retailers are among the best in
the nation, the industry wants to work with the state on
improvements and to take advantage of new opportunities to help
licensees to become even better by using educational tools.
4:45:11 PM
MR. FOX asserted that the ABC Board and AST's primary interest
has been in issuing citations but he has not seen any evidence
of any interest in efforts to educate or communicate. He said
that CHARR has approached the ABC Board with its ideas but has
not received any response to any suggestions. He further said
the industry believes that the DCCED would provide business
friendly educational tools to help the 20,000 industry members
do an even better job. He suggested the agency consider
conducting seminars to assist licensees understand the complex
AS 04, and to develop multi-lingual tools to help thousands of
industry employees and licensees who use English as a second
language. Additionally, the department could work with CHARR in
distributing existing and effective tools such as the "Born On"
calendars, and could identify new tools and areas in which
licensees and their employees need assistance. Alaska retailers
are the best in nation in refusing service to minors but "we
want to do better," he said. He concluded that the most
effective way to accomplish this goal is through education. He
offered his belief that by working with the DCCED the industry
could perform even better.
4:46:38 PM
MR. FOX then switched gears to "enforcement" efforts. He
reported that for over 40 years the DOR administered the ABC
Board. He attested that throughout those years substantial
cooperation existed between the ABC Board, the AST, and local
police. This proposed move would not impact enforcement in any
way. He said the LB&A considered that issue in-depth and
concluded, quoting from Representative Hawker's sponsor
statement, "HB 125 does not restrict or change the enforcement
responsibilities of the board or the Department of Public
Safety." Additionally, he commented that the ABC Board's top
three positions are occupied by two former police chiefs and a
former AST trooper. Thus, it is "not even conceivable that
enforcement will be diminished under this administration," he
said. Further, the grants for compliance checks do not allow
the ABC Board to spend funds for other projects so he predicted
that stings will continue at a robust rate. He recapped the ABC
Board's history under DOR, reiterating that enforcement would
continue under the proposed move. He further offered his belief
that the ABC Board and DPS have not been open to education and
training, which he deemed as a critical component to reduce
underage drinking. He furthersaid the industry believes that
the DCCED, who specialize in helping businesses, will be more
open to education and training.
4:48:21 PM
GARY SUPERMAN, Owner, Hunger Hut Bar, Motel, & Liquor Store,
said that as an owner that he resents the idea the industry is a
criminal element. He related a scenario in which an AST trooper
entered his premises just before closing. The bar held three
patrons, including a taxi cab driver and two other customers.
The AST trooper alerted the bartender that the bar was being
watched, that she would be held liable and would be arrested for
anything that happened. He pointed out that this was "right out
of the blue." He surmised the AST trooper had no reason to come
in since no one reported any problem. He said, "To me it
underscores a, I think, a kind of harassment element that a lot
of us folks are having to deal with today and I resent it." I'm
not against enforcement. I think a lot of the arguments that
have been put forward here by some of the law enforcement
community are specious at best if the committee looks at the net
effect of this legislation." He reiterated that he is not
against enforcement. He related that most of the industry
members he knows are active in their communities. He offered
that he served 12 years on the Kenai-Peninsula Borough Assembly.
He remarked that he even "floated a ballot proposition" to
initiate a sheriff's department about five years ago, which
helps confirm that he is not against law enforcement. He
concluded that an unhealthy symbiotic relationship has emerged
between licensees and the ABC Board. He disagreed that the ABC
Board is working well. He briefly discussed changes in societal
attitudes towards alcohol, and then expressed his interest in a
fair hearing on the enforcement issues.
4:53:49 PM
CARMEN LUNDE, Director, Kodiak Cabaret, Hotel Restaurant and
Retailers Association (Kodiak CHARR), stated that she
represented Kodiak CHARR's 26 licensees. She related she has
served in the hospitality industry for more than 40 years, as a
waitress, bartender, management, and as a bar owner. She said
she has successfully worked with the ABC Board, the police
department, and AST. However, she said that since the ABC Board
has moved to DPS, "we don't feel we've had that successful
working relationship." She recalled the history of the ABC
Board when it was under the DOR and said she believes it
operates better under an agency whose primary goal is not
enforcement, but whose goal is to help reduce problems, such as
the drunk driving, underage drinking, and other issues that need
to be solved. She said she thought that moving the ABC Board to
DCCED would create a better atmosphere "all around." The
majority of the ABC Board's work is administrative, such as
processing license renewals and fielding questions on state
regulations and laws. The police could still be called on to
enforce compliance checks in licensed premises. She also said,
"We are hard-working taxpaying businessmen and women not
criminals and feel the ABC Board belongs under the Department of
Commerce, Community, and Economic Development." She related a
scenario highlighting a "sting" operation in Kodiak, during
which an employee was cited, after checking a patron's
identification twice, although the employee "still read it
wrong." She clarified did not wish to make an excuse for the
bartender. However, the officer who cited the bartender came
into the bar and said, "We are going to slam this place and
we're going to hang you out to dry." She expressed her outrage
at this incident and further stated that it is not the first
time this type of activity has happened in Kodiak.
4:56:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON recalled previous testimony that
suggested this proposal was being brought up by small number of
owners who are trying to "skirt" the system. He asked whether
she thought this proposal was being brought forth by a small
number of owners or if it is being forwarded by a "small group
of miscreants."
MS. LUNDE answered that she believed the impetus was universal.
She said that almost everyone she has discussed this with is
unhappy about the situation. She said, "In Kodiak, for these 26
licenses - I do know that they are all in agreement."
[HB 125 was held over.]