Legislature(2007 - 2008)SENATE FINANCE 532

05/09/2007 09:00 AM Senate FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 133 ELECTRONIC MONITORING OF GANG PROBATIONER TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 133(FIN) Out of Committee
+= HB 229 KENAI GASIFICATION PROJECT; RAILROAD BOND TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= SB 104 NATURAL GAS PIPELINE PROJECT TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
= HB 109 DISCLOSURES & ETHICS/BRIBERY/RETIREMENT
Moved SCS CSHB 109(FIN) Out of Committee
                                                                                                                                
     SENATE CS FOR CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 109(JUD)                                                                               
     "An Act relating to  bribery, receiving unlawful gratuities,                                                               
     and   campaign   contributions;  denying   public   employee                                                               
     retirement   pension   benefits  to   certain   legislators,                                                               
     legislative  directors,  and   public  officers  who  commit                                                               
     certain offenses,  and adding  to the  duties of  the Alaska                                                               
     Retirement  Management  Board and  to  the  list of  matters                                                               
     governed  by  the  Administrative Procedure  Act  concerning                                                               
     that  denial; relating  to  campaign  financing and  ethics,                                                               
     including  disclosures, in  state and  municipal government,                                                               
     to  lobbying,  and to  employment,  service  on boards,  and                                                               
     disclosures  by certain  public officers  and employees  who                                                               
     leave state or municipal  service or leave certain positions                                                               
     in    state    or    municipal    government;    restricting                                                               
     representation of  others by legislators; relating  to blind                                                               
     trusts  approved by  the Alaska  Public Offices  Commission;                                                               
     and providing for an effective date."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This  was second  hearing for  this  bill in  the Senate  Finance                                                               
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:22:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #6:  This amendment  supersedes Committee  action taken                                                               
by the  adoption of Amendment #4  during the May 8,  2007 hearing                                                               
on  this bill  which  changed  $10 to  $50  in  paragraph (1)  of                                                               
subsection (b) added to AS 24.45.051  by Section 12, page 6 lines                                                               
17 through  24. This  amendment instead changes  the $10  to $30.                                                               
The revised language reads as follows.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          (b) A lobbyist required to report to the commission                                                                   
     under (a) of this section, who  provides or pays for food or                                                               
     beverage  for  immediate  consumption  by  a  legislator  or                                                               
     legislative employee or a member  of the immediate family of                                                               
     a legislator  or legislative employee shall  report the date                                                               
     the  food or  beverage  was  provided or  paid  for and  the                                                               
     recipient's  name  and  relationship to  the  legislator  or                                                               
     legislative employee, unless the food and beverage                                                                         
               (1) cost $30 or less; or                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman moved and objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:23:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins understood  that this action would  not prevent a                                                               
lobbyist from taking  someone out to dinner;  it simply pertained                                                               
to  the reporting  and  bookkeeping  requirement associated  with                                                               
that   activity.   Nonetheless,   he   questioned   whether   the                                                               
requirement might be an "administrative burden".                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  affirmed that a  meal or beverage  costing more                                                               
than $30  would be required to  be logged in and  reported to the                                                               
Alaska   Public  Offices   Commission   (APOC).   It  would   not                                                               
significantly add  to a lobbyist's administrative  duties as they                                                               
typically provide a copy of  such expenses to their employers for                                                               
reimbursement. Increasing  the reporting  threshold to $30  is an                                                               
attempt  to  find a  middle  ground  that  would not  be  "overly                                                               
burdensome" but would  allow the public "to know  who is lobbying                                                               
who, particularly  outside of this  building at lunch and  in the                                                               
evenings."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman removed his objection.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Without further objection, Amendment #6 was ADOPTED.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:25:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Conceptual Amendment #1, as amended: This amendment inserts a                                                                   
new section on page 1 following line 12 as follows.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Section 1.  AS 11.56 is amended  by adding a new  section to                                                               
     read:                                                                                                                      
          Sec. 11.56.124. Failure to report bribery or receiving                                                                
     a bribe. (a)  A public servant commits the  crime of failure                                                               
     to  report  bribery  or  receiving a  bribe  if  the  public                                                               
     servant                                                                                                                    
               (1) witnesses what the public servant knows or                                                                   
     reasonably should know is                                                                                                  
                    (A) bribery of a public servant by another                                                                  
     person; or                                                                                                                 
                    (B) receiving a bribe by another public                                                                     
     servant; and                                                                                                               
               (2) does not as soon as reasonably practicable                                                                   
     report  that crime  to a  peace officer  or law  enforcement                                                               
     agency.                                                                                                                    
          (b) Failure to report bribery or receiving a bribe is                                                                 
     a class A misdemeanor.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
This amendment also deletes the entirety of subsection (a) of                                                                   
Section 65, page 38 lines 26 through 27, and replaces it with                                                                   
the following.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          (a) AS 11.56.124, added by sec. 1 of this Act, and the                                                                
     amendment  of AS  11.56.130(1) made  by sec.  2 of  this Act                                                               
     apply to offenses  occurring on or after  the effective date                                                               
     of secs. 1 and 2 of this Act.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
This amendment also adds the definition of "Public Servant" to                                                                  
the bill, as follows.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     "Public Servant" is defined in 11.81.900(54)                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     (54)  "public  servant  means  to  each  of  the  following,                                                               
     whether compensated or  not, but does not  include jurors or                                                               
     witnesses:                                                                                                                 
          (A) an officer or employee of the state, a                                                                            
     municipality or  other political  subdivision of  the state,                                                               
     or a  governmental instrumentality  of the  state, including                                                               
     legislators, members of the judiciary, and peace officers;                                                                 
          (B) a person acting as an advisor, or consultant, or                                                                  
     assistant  at the  request of,  the direction  of, or  under                                                               
     contract with  the state, a municipality  or other political                                                               
     subdivision   of   the   state,  or   another   governmental                                                               
     instrumentality;  in this  subparagraph "person  includes an                                                               
     employee of the person;                                                                                                    
          (C) a person who serves as a member of the board or                                                                   
     commission created  by statute or by  legislative, judicial,                                                               
     or  administrative action  by the  state, a  municipality or                                                               
     other   political  subdivision   of   the  state   ,  or   a                                                               
     governmental instrumentality;                                                                                              
          (D) a person nominated, elected, appointed, employed,                                                                 
     or designated to  act in a capacity defined in  (A) - (C) of                                                               
     this paragraph, but who does not occupy the position;                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[Note: This amendment  was drafted to CS HB  109(JUD) am, Version                                                               
25-GH1059\N.A. Therefore, conforming changes must be made.]                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:25:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson moved  Conceptual  Amendment #1,  as amended,  and                                                               
objected for purposes of explanation.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
[NOTE:  Conceptual  Amendment  #1   had  been  offered  and  then                                                               
withdrawn from  consideration during the Committee's  May 8, 2007                                                               
hearing on the bill.]                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  stated that when  Amendment #1 was  offered during                                                               
the first hearing  on this bill, a question  had arisen regarding                                                               
the  definition of  "public servant".  After conferring  with the                                                               
amendment's  drafter, Tamara  Cook,  Director, Legislative  Legal                                                               
and  Research  Services,  the  decision was  made  to  amend  the                                                               
amendment to add the definition of "public servant".                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson noted  that there  has been  a national  political                                                               
movement  "to add  some responsibilities"  that  would assist  in                                                               
preventing  "good  people from  turning  into  bad people".  This                                                               
amendment is one such action.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman understood that  the provisions of the amendment                                                               
would only  require public servants,  rather than members  of the                                                               
public, to report a bribe.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:28:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson affirmed that to be the intent.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
While Senator  Elton appreciated  the addition of  the definition                                                               
to the amendment,  he was unsure how language  in subsection a(1)                                                               
of  Section  1,  which  reads "(1)  witnessing  what  the  public                                                               
servant  knows   or  reasonably   should  know  is…",   would  be                                                               
interpreted by the court system.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  JONES,   Senior  Assistant  Attorney   General,  Opinions,                                                               
Appeals, and  Ethics Section, Civil  Division, Department  of Law                                                               
communicated that this "would involve  a combined standard. First                                                               
of  all  because  this  is  a criminal  statute,  'the  beyond  a                                                               
reasonable  doubt' standard  of  proof would  apply." The  second                                                               
standard,  "reasonably should  know" would  be a  "more objective                                                               
standard".                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:29:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones continued  that the combination of  these two standards                                                               
would  provide  the  circumstance   in  which  someone  could  be                                                               
convicted of this offense. It would  be quite obvious a bribe was                                                               
occurring if both standards were present.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:30:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson appreciated  Senator Elton's  question as  he also                                                               
had  wrestled  with  the  interpretation  of  language  during  a                                                               
separate  bill on  child crime  reporting that  specified that  a                                                               
person had  the duty  to report a  child being  raped, kidnapped,                                                               
assaulted,  or   murdered.  To  that  point,   he  shared  having                                                               
experienced a quandary  once when trying to  determine whether he                                                               
was witnessing  a child kidnapping  or simply a child  upset with                                                               
his father.  Thus, the  question is  whether a  reasonable person                                                               
could make a determination; the body  of law "says that unless it                                                               
was really clear, you're off the hook, but you do have a duty."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Thomas   sought  further  clarification  about   how  to                                                               
interpret  language  in the  definition  of  public servant  that                                                               
reads "includes  an employee of  the person"; particularly  as he                                                               
would not  consider consultants, advisors, and  other professions                                                               
to qualify as "public servants".                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jones  specified  that  "person"  in  the  legal  definition                                                               
includes  corporations   and  other  non-human   entities.  Thus,                                                               
"employees  of a  corporation  that is  under  contract with  the                                                               
State" must abide by this reporting requirement.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:32:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Thomas understood therefore that  it would not pertain to                                                               
"a private citizen".                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones clarified that it would  apply to a private citizen who                                                               
was under contract to the State.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Thomas  surmised therefore,  that the individual  must be                                                               
receiving some type of compensation by the public entity.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones affirmed.  The person must be "under  contract with the                                                               
State" to provide their service.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:33:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson  expressed that  "the  definition  was crafted  to                                                               
include"  all  who  could "influence  the  public  process".  For                                                               
instance,  people  on  boards and  commissions  are  specifically                                                               
identified regardless  of whether  they receive  compensation for                                                               
their service.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson removed his objection.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
There  being no  further objection,  Conceptual Amendment  #1, as                                                               
amended, was ADOPTED.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:34:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #5:  This amendment inserts  a new  paragraph following                                                               
"commission;" on  page 6 line  15 of AS 24.45.041(b),  amended by                                                               
Section 11, as follows.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
               (9) A sworn affirmation by the lobbyist that the                                                                 
     lobbyist  has  not been  previously  convicted  of a  felony                                                               
     involving  moral   turpitude;  in  this   paragraph  "felony                                                               
     involving  moral  turpitude" has  the  meaning  given in  AS                                                               
     15.60.010, and  includes convictions for a  violation of the                                                               
     law  of this  state or  a violation  of the  law of  another                                                               
     jurisdiction  with similar  elements to  a felony  involving                                                               
     moral turpitude in this state.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
In addition, this amendment adds a new bill section as follows.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Section  12.   AS  24.45.041  is   amended  by   adding  new                                                               
     subsections to read:                                                                                                       
          (i) A person may not register if the person has been                                                                  
     previously convicted  of a felony involving  moral turpitude                                                               
     in violation  of a law of  this state or the  law of another                                                               
     jurisdiction  with elements  similar to  a felony  involving                                                               
     moral turpitude in this state.                                                                                             
          (j) In this section,                                                                                                  
               (1) "felony involving moral turpitude" has the                                                                   
     meaning given in AS 15.60.010;                                                                                             
               (2) "previously convicted" means the defendant                                                                   
     entered a  plea of guilty,  no contest, or  nolo contendere,                                                               
     or has  been found  guilty by a  court or  jury; "previously                                                               
     convicted" does not  include a conviction that  has been set                                                               
     aside under AS  12.55.085 or a similar  procedure in another                                                               
     jurisdiction,  or that  has been  reversed or  vacated by  a                                                               
     court.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  moved the amendment  and objected  for purposes                                                               
of discussion.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman advised  that  this amendment  would exclude  a                                                               
person  convicted  of a  felony  involving  moral turpitude  from                                                               
being  a paid  lobbyist. He  reviewed the  list of  offenses that                                                               
qualify as a felony involving moral turpitude.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Stedman  felt   that  the   responsibilities  of   the                                                               
Legislature,  specifically the  allocation  of  money to  various                                                               
communities and  projects "that move  the direction of  the State                                                               
that  have  the affect  that  ripples  through decades",  require                                                               
there  being  "tight requirements  on  who  is  allowed to  be  a                                                               
lobbyist and  lobby the  individual elected  officials to  try to                                                               
persuade them in particular directions."  In a similar fashion to                                                               
laws that prevent convicted felons  from holding certain licenses                                                               
and  undertaking  a  multitude  of  other  activities,  a  person                                                               
convicted of  a felony  involving moral  turpitude should  not be                                                               
allowed to be a paid lobbyist.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:36:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Thomas asked  whether a person convicted  of this offense                                                               
could be elected to the Legislature.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:37:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ANNE  CARPENETI, Assistant  Attorney General,  Criminal Division,                                                               
Department of Law, deferred to Mr. Jones.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:37:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jones   communicated  that  following  the   previous  day's                                                               
discussion on this issue, he  had conducted further research. One                                                               
of the  qualifications required  to serve  in the  Legislature is                                                               
that the person  be a registered voter. He  reviewed this statute                                                               
as follows.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska  Statute (AS)  15.050.030.  Loss  and restoration  of                                                               
     voting rights. provides  that a person convicted  of a crime                                                               
     that constitutes  a felony  involving moral  turpitude under                                                               
     state or  federal law may not  vote in a state,  federal, or                                                               
     municipal election  from the date of  the conviction through                                                               
     the date of the unconditional  discharge of the person. Upon                                                               
     the unconditional  discharge, the person may  register under                                                               
     AS  15.07, which  of course  invites the  question, what  is                                                               
     unconditional discharge.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones continued.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     AS 15.06.010 provides,  in subsection (b)(39), unconditional                                                               
     discharge  means   that  a  person  is   released  from  all                                                               
     disability  arising   under  a  conviction   and  sentenced,                                                               
     including probation and parole.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:39:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Thomas understood  that, after a certain  period of time,                                                               
an unconditional discharge is the typical course of action.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones believed that to be true.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:39:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman asked whether this  was State or federal law; if                                                               
it  was  State  law,  the  State could  change  the  language  to                                                               
prohibit a convicted felon from running for public office.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:39:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jones  suspected,   but  was  uncertain  as   to  whether  a                                                               
Constitutional provision  established the qualifications  for the                                                               
Legislature. If  that were the  case, a  Constitutional amendment                                                               
would be required to change it.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Carpeneti   understood  that   a  separate  bill   had  been                                                               
introduced this  year that would  change when a  person convicted                                                               
of a  felony would be eligible  to vote. That bill  would allow a                                                               
person released  from custody to  register to vote  regardless of                                                               
whether they were on probation, parole, or another provision.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:40:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton pointed out that  "a fundamental difference between                                                               
a Legislator  and a  lobbyist" is  the manner  in which  they are                                                               
"hired".  The issue  of whether  a  candidate has  a past  felony                                                               
conviction would likely  be part of a  campaign discussion. "It's                                                               
not necessarily part  of a discussion when an entity  is hiring a                                                               
lobbyist."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton considered  this hiring process difference  to be a                                                               
significant  factor. Thus,  while  he  had previously  questioned                                                               
treating  a  lobbyist  differently  than  a  Legislator,  he  was                                                               
comfortable with the approach proposed in this amendment.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:41:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson requested a copy of Mr. Jones' research.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman noted that the material would be provided.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:42:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
In response to  a question from Senator Thomas,  Mr. Jones stated                                                               
that the Legislative voting provisions  referenced in his remarks                                                               
were in the State Constitution.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman removed his objection.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE 9:42:56 AM / 9:43:30 AM                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  objected. Clarification  was sought as  to whether                                                               
the amendment's  language would allow  a person who  had regained                                                               
their voting right to become a lobbyist.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  considered "the  amendment, as written,"  to be                                                               
appropriate in its prohibition on  allowing a person convicted of                                                               
a felony  of moral turpitude  from becoming a lobbyist.  It could                                                               
be revisited in the future if the determination changed.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  asked whether a  court challenge to  the amendment                                                               
is anticipated.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Carpeneti  communicated that  a person  could file  a lawsuit                                                               
about  any law  adopted  by the  Legislature.  A "more  important                                                               
question  is" whether  this prohibition  would be  upheld by  the                                                               
Court.  She  "wouldn't  be  surprised if  a  lawsuit  were  filed                                                               
challenging it. I'm not sure  exactly what issues, probably expos                                                               
facto or  other issues. It's  hard to predict exactly  what would                                                               
happen, but I think it would be defensible by the Department."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson removed his objection.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Without further objection, Amendment #5 was ADOPTED.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:45:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Amendment  #7:  This  amendment inserts  the  words  "before  or"                                                               
following the  word "year" on page  40 line 9 of  AS 39.52.180(d)                                                               
amended  by  Section  66.  The revised  language  would  read  as                                                               
follows.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
          (d) An individual who formerly held a position listed                                                                 
     in this subsection [A  FORMER GOVERNOR, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR,                                                               
     OR HEAD OF  A PRINCIPAL DEPARTMENT IN  THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH]                                                               
     may not engage in activity as  a lobbyist under AS 24.45 for                                                               
     a period of  one year before or after  leaving that position                                                               
     [SERVICE   AS   THE   GOVERNOR,  LIEUTENANT   GOVERNOR,   OR                                                               
     DEPARTMENT HEAD,  AS APPROPRIATE]. This subsection  does not                                                               
     prohibit  service as  a volunteer  lobbyist described  in AS                                                               
     24.45.161(a)(1)  or a  representational lobbyist  as defined                                                               
     under regulations  of the Alaska Public  Offices Commission.                                                               
     This subsection applies to the position of                                                                                 
               (1) the governor;                                                                                                
               (2) lieutenant governor;                                                                                         
               (3) head or deputy head of a principal department                                                                
     in the executive branch;                                                                                                   
               (4) director of a division or legislative liaison                                                                
     within a principal department in the executive branch;                                                                     
               (5)     legislative    liaison,     administrative                                                               
     assistant, or other  employee of the Office  of the Governor                                                               
     or Office of the Lieutenant Governor in a policy making                                                                    
     position;                                                                                                                  
               (6) member of a state board or commission that                                                                   
     has the authority to adopt regulations, other than a board                                                                 
     or commission named in AS 08.01.010;                                                                                       
               (7) member of the governing board and executive                                                                  
     officer of a state public corporation.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins moved Amendment #7.  This amendment would close a                                                               
"huge loophole"  in lobbying activities by  precluding a lobbyist                                                               
from  serving in  a position  subject to  the provisions  of this                                                               
bill for one year before or after being a lobbyist.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins  declared that  this  prohibition  had the  same                                                               
merits as  current laws which  prevent a person holding  a public                                                               
service  position subject  to the  provisions of  this bill  from                                                               
becoming a lobbyist for one year after leaving their position.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson objected.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  stated that the amendment,  while "well-intended",                                                               
might have  the adverse affect  of precluding people  who provide                                                               
"an extemporary service" by lobbying  because of their conviction                                                               
to  a  cause, such  as  those  who  "lobby  on behalf  of  abused                                                               
children,  and who  typically receive  no monetary  consideration                                                               
for their effort from running for public office.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins   acknowledged  Senator  Dyson's   remarks,  but                                                               
pointed out  that the amendment  would not alter language  in the                                                               
subsection  that  excluded  those   who  serve  "as  a  volunteer                                                               
lobbyist   described    in   AS    24.45.161(a)(1)   or    as   a                                                               
representational  lobbyist as  defined under  regulations of  the                                                               
Alaska Public  Offices Commission"  from running  for one  of the                                                               
identified positions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:48:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson appreciated  the clarification,  but continued  to                                                               
worry that the amendment might  inadvertently preclude people who                                                               
serve in certain lobbying capacities.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE 9:49:14 AM / 9:50:11 AM                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Without objection, Senator Huggins WITHDREW Amendment #7.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Conceptual Amendment #8: This amendment  adds new language to the                                                               
bill to  prohibit a person from  being appointed or elected  to a                                                               
position listed in Section 66  39.52.180(d) (1) through (7) for a                                                               
period of one year after engaging in activity as a lobbyist.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins moved the amendment.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton understood  the intent of the  amendment, but could                                                               
not  agree to  precluding people  who  had been  involved in  the                                                               
governmental process as  a lobbyist from running  for Governor or                                                               
Lieutenant  Governor. Adoption  of the  amendment would  prohibit                                                               
such people from  filing for those offices even  though the issue                                                               
could be addressed during their election campaign.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton stated that he  had supported Section 66 because it                                                               
addressed  the  "legitimate  public   issue  on  whether  or  not                                                               
somebody  was angling  to get  a  job potentially  as a  lobbyist                                                               
while  they  were  a  public  officer."  He  was  unsure  whether                                                               
prohibiting a lobbyist from becoming  a public officer was a real                                                               
concern.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:53:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Thomas   asked  whether  the  action   proposed  by  the                                                               
amendment  was  contrary to  the  Constitution  in respect  to  a                                                               
person's right to run for office.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:53:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Amendment to  Amendment #8: This  amendment removes  Governor and                                                               
Lieutenant   Governor  from   the   positions   subject  to   the                                                               
prohibition  specified  in  Amendment #8.  Thus  the  prohibition                                                               
would apply  to the positions  listed in Section  66 39.52.180(d)                                                               
(3) through (7).                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins moved the amendment to Amendment #8.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman objected for discussion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:54:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson concurred with  Senator Elton's remarks. Regardless                                                               
of the "honor and prestige"  associated with a State position, he                                                               
found it "hard to conceive" that  a lobbyist would desire to move                                                               
to a position with the State because they would earn less money.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  understood that this amendment  would prohibit the                                                               
Governor  from hiring,  for example,  Joel  Gilbertson, a  former                                                               
Department of  Health and Social Services  commissioner, who, due                                                               
to  his  experience  with public  health  issues  and  associated                                                               
financial  aspects,   was  now   employed  as  a   lobbyist  with                                                               
Providence Hospital in Anchorage.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  considered most lobbyists to  be "honorable people                                                               
with  a  wealth  of  knowledge",  and "limiting  …  the  pool  of                                                               
experienced people" might be detrimental to the State.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:55:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins  stated that  there  were  a number  of  people,                                                               
including  Mr.   Gilbertson,  whom  he  admired.   However,  were                                                               
people's  biases a  constant consideration  "we would  never pass                                                               
legislation." Defining  what people could  do before or  after is                                                               
part of  the solution.  "It is a  safeguard that's  worth putting                                                               
into place."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  removed his objection  to the amendment  to the                                                               
amendment                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
There being no further objection,  the amendment to the amendment                                                               
was ADOPTED.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:57:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  stated  that  Amendment #8,  as  amended,  was                                                               
before the Committee.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  argued against the amendment.  While he understood                                                               
the point  that a  person, formerly employed  as a  lobbyist, who                                                               
was appointed  to a  policy position  in State  government, could                                                               
have a bias  toward their employer, a similar  potential for bias                                                               
could  be found  in people  with other  backgrounds. He  provided                                                               
examples  and  concluded  that  a  person does  not  have  to  be                                                               
employed by an entity as a lobbyist to display a bias.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  contended that a person's  background would likely                                                               
be  a consideration  and  a  point of  discussion  in the  hiring                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:59:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins  stressed that a  lot of issues are  addressed in                                                               
the bill, including some issues  that might not require "fixing".                                                               
Nonetheless,  he intended  to  vote for  the  bill "to  safeguard                                                               
Alaskans and restore  the confidence in this State  in people who                                                               
work at the State level, period."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman removed his objection to the amendment.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton objected to the amendment.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
A roll call was taken on the motion.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
IN  FAVOR: Senator  Huggins, Senator  Olson, Senator  Thomas, Co-                                                               
Chair Hoffman and Co-Chair Stedman                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
OPPOSED: Senator Dyson and Senator Elton                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The motion PASSED (5-2)                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #8, as amended, was ADOPTED.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
No further amendments were forthcoming.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:00:39 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked that the bill's fiscal notes be reviewed.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAMMY  KEMPTON,   Juneau  Branch  Administrator,   Alaska  Public                                                               
Offices  Commission, Department  of  Administration, stated  that                                                               
this  bill  would require  APOC  to  accept handwritten  campaign                                                               
disclosure reports and have them  available for viewing on APOC's                                                               
website within  two days after  receipt. In order to  comply with                                                               
this provision,  APOC must  acquire two  high speed  scanners and                                                               
add one  additional fulltime employee and  an additional halftime                                                               
employee during State  election years. The projected  cost for FY                                                               
2008   is   $250,000   as  reflected   in   the   Department   of                                                               
Administration May 8, 2007 fiscal note.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:03:24 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
GEOFF BULLOCK  informed the Committee  that he was a  lobbyist, a                                                               
father of  five, a foster  parent, and  a felon. The  adoption of                                                               
Amendment #5  "puts me out  of work."  He made some  bad business                                                               
decisions  in 1998,  was convicted,  served time,  and eventually                                                               
reestablished his lobbying  business. He does not  agree with the                                                               
amendment and considers it "collateral damage".                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bullock could understand furthering  such action if "a felony                                                               
was  committed  in  the  act  of  a lobbyist  or  the  act  of  a                                                               
legislator,"  but he  could not  understand the  broad action  of                                                               
labeling  all felons  as being  bad. They  are not.  He "wouldn't                                                               
mind if  any" of  the 515  inmates he served  time with  were his                                                               
neighbors.  "We all  make mistakes,  we all  reach for  the first                                                               
stone  to throw,  and you  guys threw  it and  it hit  me and  my                                                               
family and it hurts."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:05:14 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton  spoke  to   the  Department  of  Administration's                                                               
"purely administrative"  fiscal note which provided  for the cost                                                               
of  compiling  reports.  Missing  from the  discussion  was  "the                                                               
investigatory  function  of  APOC",   particularly  as  APOC  was                                                               
"created  to be  a watchdog  for Alaskans."  Not addressing  this                                                               
function   in  the   fiscal  note   was   "bothersome"  to   him.                                                               
Nonetheless, he  appreciated the efforts exerted  to develop this                                                               
bill and "looked forward to its adoption."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:06:45 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson was  "moved by" Mr. Bullock's  testimony and wished                                                               
that the Committee  "had allowed for felons who  had served their                                                               
time and got their rights restored."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:07:08 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman moved  to  report the  bill,  as amended,  from                                                               
Committee  with   individual  recommendations   and  accompanying                                                               
fiscal notes.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being  no objection,  SCS CSHB  109(FIN) was  REPORTED from                                                               
Committee with previous  zero fiscal note #2  from the Department                                                               
of Law and new $250,000 fiscal  note, dated May 8, 2007, from the                                                               
Department of Administration.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:07:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                

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