Legislature(2023 - 2024)DAVIS 106

03/27/2023 06:00 PM House WAYS & MEANS

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Audio Topic
06:00:36 PM Start
06:01:40 PM Presentation(s): Municipal Taxes
07:09:40 PM HB109
08:03:54 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation: Municipal Taxes by Nils Andreassen, TELECONFERENCED
Executive Director, Alaska Municipal League
*+ HB 142 STATE SALES AND USE TAX TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+= HB 109 REDUCE CORP. NET INCOME TAX RATE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 110 PERM FUND; XFER DIVIDEND PROG TO APFC TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled but Not Heard
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
            HB 109-REDUCE CORP. NET INCOME TAX RATE                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:09:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER announced that the final order of business would                                                                
be HOUSE BILL NO. 109, "An Act reducing the corporate net income                                                                
tax rate; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
7:10:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[Chair Carpenter passed the gavel to Vice Chair McCabe.]                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
7:11:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER, as prime sponsor, paraphrased the sponsor                                                                      
statement [copy included in the committee packet], as follows                                                                   
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska's  economy is  lagging that  of the  nation. Our                                                                    
     GDP  (economic) growth  over the  past decade  has been                                                                    
     the  worst in  the country.  Sixty-eight thousand  more                                                                    
     people  have left  Alaska, than  have  moved here  from                                                                    
     other  states,  over the  last  decade.  In our  modern                                                                    
     economy,  people   are  mobile,   and  will   move  for                                                                    
     employment  opportunities.  The  House Ways  and  Means                                                                    
     Committee  has  been  tasked  with  improving  Alaska's                                                                    
     economy. Reducing the cost of  doing business in Alaska                                                                    
     is a good place to start.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Corporate  income taxes  are levied  in 44  states, and                                                                    
     twenty-nine  states  have   single-rate  corporate  tax                                                                    
     systems. While  often thought of  as a major  tax type,                                                                    
     states'  corporate   income  taxes  accounted   for  an                                                                    
     average  of  just  over  seven  percent  of  state  tax                                                                    
     collections and  four percent of state  general revenue                                                                    
     in fiscal  year 2021. And  while these figures  are not                                                                    
     high, they  are among  the reasons  corporations decide                                                                    
     where to conduct business.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska's 9.4% corporate income  tax (CIT) currently has                                                                    
     the fourth highest tax rate  and the highest graduation                                                                    
     of rates in the nation.  Only New Jersey, Minnesota and                                                                    
     Illinois   have  higher   rates.  HB109   would  reduce                                                                    
     Alaska's rates to a single  rate and the lowest rate in                                                                    
     the  nation for  states with  corporate taxesfor   now.                                                                    
     North  Carolina currently  has the  lowest CIT  rate at                                                                    
     2.5% but will phase out its tax by 2030.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Graduated corporate rates  are inequitablethat  is, the                                                                    
     size of  a corporation  bears no necessary  relation to                                                                    
     the   income   levels   of   the   owners;   low-income                                                                    
     corporations  may be  owned  by  individuals with  high                                                                    
     incomes, and  high-income corporations may be  owned by                                                                    
     individuals  with  low  incomes. A  single-rate  system                                                                    
     minimizes  the   incentive  for  firms  to   engage  in                                                                    
     economically  wasteful  tax  planning to  mitigate  the                                                                    
     damage of  higher marginal tax  rates that  some states                                                                    
     levy as taxable income rises.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     A  low,  flat-rate  corporate  tax  will  significantly                                                                    
     level  the playing  field between  C-corps and  S-corps                                                                    
     and  limited  liability  companies. Low  corporate  tax                                                                    
     rates have  been proven to increase  productivity which                                                                    
     leads to improved economic output for the state.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Corporate income  taxes are also volatile,  as they are                                                                    
     taxes on  production. When  corporate income  tax rates                                                                    
     get  high enough,  the business  will  produce less  in                                                                    
     that state.  This is because  the business,  as opposed                                                                    
     to  the customers,  are the  less elastic  side of  the                                                                    
     market.  Customers,  the  more   elastic  side  of  the                                                                    
     market, may decide  to no longer buy  from the business                                                                    
     at  the higher  price.  Elasticity  also increases  the                                                                    
     more time  passes after  a price  change. As  time goes                                                                    
     on, the corporate income tax  will mean that a business                                                                    
     hires fewer  workers and/or moves  the business  out of                                                                    
     the state because  the income tax has made  the cost of                                                                    
     doing  business in  the  state  prohibitively high.  As                                                                    
     businesses   leave  the   state,  income   tax  revenue                                                                    
     decreases in the years that  follow. This makes revenue                                                                    
     volatility  for income  taxes relatively  high compared                                                                    
     to that of sales and use taxes.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Economically competitive  states, like  North Carolina,                                                                    
     have  been  reducing  rates,  flattening  brackets,  or                                                                    
     phasing  out  their   corporate  taxes.  South  Dakota,                                                                    
     another   Economically   competitive  State,   has   no                                                                    
     corporate tax.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:16:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KENDRA  BROUSSARD, Staff,  Representative  Ben Carpenter,  Alaska                                                               
State Legislature, on behalf of  Representative Carpenter, gave a                                                               
PowerPoint  presentation,  titled  "Corporate  Income  Taxes  and                                                               
Economic Growth"  [included in the  committee packet].   On slide                                                               
2, she explained  the definition of corporate income  taxes.  She                                                               
said that Alaska  levies a corporate income tax  (CIT) on certain                                                               
corporations  doing business  in the  state, under  AS 43.19  and                                                               
43.20.   She continued  that corporate  tax rates  are graduated,                                                               
with a  maximum rate  of 9.4 percent  applying to  taxable income                                                               
above  $222,000.   She  added  that  S corporations  and  limited                                                               
liability  companies which  file  federally  as partnerships  are                                                               
generally exempt from  Alaska's corporate income tax.   A non-oil                                                               
and  gas corporation  computes  its tax  liability  based on  the                                                               
federal taxable income of its  water's edge combined report, with                                                               
Alaska  adjustments.   For example,  the Alaska  tax code  allows                                                               
special treatment  for certain  dividends and  royalties received                                                               
from foreign  corporations.   She continued  that U.S.  income is                                                               
apportioned to  Alaska based on  three factors:  sales, property,                                                               
and  payroll,  while  Alaska  taxable  income  is  determined  by                                                               
applying the  apportionment factor to the  corporation's modified                                                               
federal taxable  income.   Corporate income tax  for oil  and gas                                                               
corporations is calculated differently and reported separately.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. BROUSSARD  stated that, generally,  a corporation  is subject                                                               
to tax  on its  current-year Alaska taxable  income, and  any net                                                               
operating losses  may be carried  forward indefinitely  to offset                                                               
future tax  liabilities; however,  as part  of the  federal CARES                                                               
Act passed  in 2020,  corporations may  carry back  net operating                                                               
losses from tax years 2018, 2019,  and 2020, for up to five years                                                               
and  receive refunds  for previous  federal taxes  paid.   Alaska                                                               
adopts most provisions of the  federal corporate income tax code,                                                               
including  the provision  allowing the  five-year carry  back for                                                               
net operating losses;  thus, the carry back  provision applies to                                                               
Alaska corporate income tax as well.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:19:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BROUSSARD,  moving  to  slide  4,  showed  the  non-oil  CIT                                                               
revenues as $125 million in fiscal  year 2024 (FY 24).  She moved                                                               
to slide 4  and said the FY 24 petroleum  CIT revenue is forecast                                                               
to  be $320  million.   Slide 5  showed taxable  income rates  as                                                               
prescribed in  AS 43.20.11  (e).  She  paraphrased from  slide 6,                                                               
which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
      Alaska currently has the fourth highest tax rate and                                                                      
      the highest graduation of rates in the nation. Only                                                                       
     New Jersey,  Minnesota and Illinois have  higher rates.                                                                    
     This bill  would reduce Alaska's  rates to a  single 2%                                                                    
     rate and the lowest rate  in the nation for states with                                                                    
     corporate taxesfor   now. North Carolina  currently has                                                                    
     the lowest  CIT rate  at 2.5. They  will phase  out its                                                                    
     tax by 2030.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
7:20:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GROH,  concerning  slide 5,  questioned  why  the                                                               
rates on  the table are  different than  what is in  the proposed                                                               
bill.   He pointed  out that  the slide shows  a maximum  rate of                                                               
$90,000 or  more, but  in the  proposed bill the  rates go  up to                                                               
$222,000 or more.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARPENTER  responded  with the  acknowledgement  that  the                                                               
proposed bill  and slide do not  match, and he offered  to follow                                                               
up to the committee.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:21:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BROUSSARD  moved to  slide  7  to  show a  map  illustrating                                                               
corporate  income tax  rates  in  every state.    The color  gray                                                               
represents no such  taxes, while states with this  tax are yellow                                                               
to red,  representing lower to  higher taxes, respectively.   She                                                               
pointed out  that Alaska is  shaded red, with the  fourth highest                                                               
rate in the nation.  She  paraphrased from slide 8, which read as                                                               
follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Graduated corporate rates  are inequitablethat  is, the                                                                    
     size of  a corporation  bears no necessary  relation to                                                                    
     the   income   levels   of   the   owners;   low-income                                                                    
     corporations  may be  owned  by  individuals with  high                                                                    
     incomes, and  high-income corporations may be  owned by                                                                    
     individuals  with  low  incomes. A  single-rate  system                                                                    
     minimizes  the   incentive  for  firms  to   engage  in                                                                    
     economically  wasteful  tax  planning to  mitigate  the                                                                    
     damage of  higher marginal tax  rates that  some states                                                                    
     levy as taxable income rises.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
7:22:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BROUSSARD  moved  to  slide 9  and  explained  the  proposed                                                               
legislation.  She stated that if  the taxable income is less than                                                               
$25,000, then  the tax would be  zero.  If the  taxable income is                                                               
$25,000, then  the tax  would be two  percent of  taxable income.                                                               
She  moved  to  slide  10  and  pointed  out  that  the  proposed                                                               
legislation would  not change income  tax education credit  in AS                                                               
43.20.014.   Addressing why the  proposed legislation  is needed,                                                               
she  moved  to   slide  11,  which  read   as  follows  [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska's  economy is  lagging that  of the  nation. Our                                                                    
     GDP  (economic) growth  over the  past decade  has been                                                                    
     the  worst in  the  country.  Sixty-five thousand  more                                                                    
     people  have  left Alaska  for,  than  have moved  here                                                                    
     from,  other  states over  the  decade.  In our  modern                                                                    
     economy,  people   are  mobile,   and  will   move  for                                                                    
     employment  opportunities.  The  House Ways  and  Means                                                                    
     Committee  has  been  tasked  with  improving  Alaska's                                                                    
     economy  and reducing  the cost  of  doing business  in                                                                    
     Alaska is a good place to start.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
7:23:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BROUSSARD  moved to slide  12 and expressed the  opinion that                                                               
Alaska  is not  doing  well economically,  as  the state's  gross                                                               
domestic product  (GDP) growth is the  worst in the nation.   She                                                               
pointed out  that people are  leaving the  state, as seen  on the                                                               
graph  on  slide  13.     Slide  14  read  as  follows  [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Corporate  income taxes  are levied  in 44  states, and                                                                    
     twenty-nine  states  have   single-rate  corporate  tax                                                                    
     systems. While  often thought of  as a major  tax type,                                                                    
     states'  corporate   income  taxes  accounted   for  an                                                                    
     average  of  just  over  seven  percent  of  state  tax                                                                    
     collections and  four percent of state  general revenue                                                                    
     in fiscal  year 2021. And  while these figures  are not                                                                    
     high, they represent a  substantial increase over prior                                                                    
     years, and  are among  the reasons  corporations decide                                                                    
     where  to  conduct  business.  Corporate  income  taxes                                                                    
     accounted  for 2.26  percent of  general revenue  in FY                                                                    
     2020.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:24:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BROUSSARD, moving  to slide 15, said that Alaska's  CIT is at                                                               
9.4 percent.   Slide 16  and slide  17 read as  follows [original                                                               
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     People pay all taxes. When  the government levies a tax                                                                    
     on a  corporation, the corporation  is more like  a tax                                                                    
     collector  than  a  taxpayer. The  burden  of  the  tax                                                                    
     ultimately  falls on  peoplethe  owners,  customers, or                                                                    
     workers of the corporation.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     [slide 17]                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     The corporate income tax is  popular in part because it                                                                    
     appears to be paid by  rich corporations. Yet those who                                                                    
     bear the  ultimate burden of the  taxthe  customers and                                                                    
     workers  of corporationsare   often  not  rich. If  the                                                                    
     true incidence  of the corporate  tax were  more widely                                                                    
     known, this tax might be less popular among voters.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
7:24:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BROUSSARD  moved to slide 18  and suggested that a  low flat-                                                               
rate  corporate  tax would  level  the  playing field  between  C                                                               
corporations and S corporations  and limited liability companies.                                                               
She explained  that low corporate  tax rates have been  proven to                                                               
increase  productivity,  leading  to  improved  economic  output;                                                               
however, as time goes on, a  corporate income tax could result in                                                               
a  prohibitively  high cost  for  doing  business in  the  state.                                                               
Businesses would  then leave  the state,  and income  tax revenue                                                               
would  decrease.   She  explained  that this  would  make a  high                                                               
revenue volatility  for income taxes,  relative to sales  and use                                                               
taxes.    She  continued  onto   slide  20  and  reiterated  that                                                               
volatility would be created because  corporate income taxes would                                                               
tax production.  She warned  that when corporate income taxes are                                                               
too high, businesses will produce  less in the state.  Concerning                                                               
markets, she  said that businesses  are on the less  elastic side                                                               
than  consumers,  because at  the  higher  prices, consumers  may                                                               
decide to no  longer buy from businesses.  After  a price change,                                                               
she suggested that elasticity would also increase with time.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
7:26:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BROUSSARD,  moving  to  slide  21,  said  the  figure  shown                                                               
illustrates the  volatility of state  tax revenue.  On  slide 22,                                                               
she elaborated  that economically competitive states,  like North                                                               
Carolina,  have  been  reducing rates,  flattening  brackets,  or                                                               
phasing out corporate taxes.  She  noted that South Dakota has no                                                               
corporate tax.   She expressed  the opinion that this  is because                                                               
taxes have economic consequences.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
7:27:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY  pointed out on  slide 21 that  South Dakota                                                               
has no CIT, but according to  a previous presentation made to the                                                               
committee,  the  state   does  have  a  tax.     He  offered  the                                                               
understanding that  the revenue generated was  about $1.8 billion                                                               
with a tax on goods and services.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARPENTER  responded  that  the  question  draws  a  point                                                               
directly on the committee's discussions  around a fiscal package,                                                               
which  would  reorder  thinking on  state  finances  and  revenue                                                               
generation  for the  state government.   He  spoke about  growing                                                               
economic activity  and said  the state's CIT  policy is  a hurdle                                                               
for  investors  coming  to  the  state.   He  elaborated  that  a                                                               
complete  fiscal package  addressing the  hurdle by  shifting the                                                               
burden of the tax to a  broader economic factor would reorder how                                                               
the  state is  receiving money.    He continued  that this  would                                                               
improve the  state's ability to  grow the economy.   He explained                                                               
that, as the  non-government economy grows with a  sales tax, the                                                               
state revenue would increase.   He explained that, if the non-oil                                                               
economy  grows  and generates  more  revenue,  without CIT  there                                                               
would be no connection to the  state revenues.  He deduced that a                                                               
broad-based tax  coupled with  a decrease in  the CIT  rate would                                                               
have the  net effect of  making Alaska a more  advantageous place                                                               
to invest in.   He stated that the proposed  legislation is a CIT                                                               
rate reduction bill, and it is  being presented in the context of                                                               
a fiscal plan with more than one action.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
7:31:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  MCCABE suggested that in  the end the people  pay the                                                               
tax, and if CIT  is too high, the people would  still pay one way                                                               
or another.   If the  tax were to  be lowered, he  suggested that                                                               
businesses would  come to the  state, and as businesses  grow the                                                               
people would pay a sales tax.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER commented that consumers  ultimately pay the tax,                                                               
whether it is  CIT, sales tax, or  income tax.  He  said that CIT                                                               
is not a direct tax on a person;  however, it is a tax someone is                                                               
paying because the consumer pays it.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:33:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD said  that, even if people  were enticed to                                                               
come to  the state, and the  CIT is too high,  the consumer would                                                               
pay.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER suggested  that the term "sin tax" is  used for a                                                               
reason.   He explained that  the theory is if  there is a  tax on                                                               
what  is unwanted,  there will  be  less of  the unwanted  thing;                                                               
therefore, if the state is  taxing corporate investment at a high                                                               
rate, then  the state  is likely  to get less.   He  further said                                                               
that if  the state is  trying to encourage  corporate investment,                                                               
the tax  should be  reduced, and  then the  state would  reap the                                                               
benefit of more business activity.   He suggested that if the tax                                                               
burden is  replaced with a  broad-based tax,  it should not  be a                                                               
tax so  narrow that  it negatively impacts  economic growth.   If                                                               
CIT is  reduced and  the lost  revenue is  replaced with  a broad                                                               
tax, he  suggested that  the benefit would  be a  possibility for                                                               
economic activity where there was none before.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:35:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  MCCABE questioned whether  corporations are  taxed on                                                               
all income, even when doing business in another state.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER  responded that the state  would tax corporations                                                               
just on its operations within the state.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
7:36:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRAY  said  that  according to  Forbes  in  2021,                                                             
Alaska  was last  in GDP  growth  while South  Dakota was  ranked                                                               
forty-seventh.   He  asked whether  ranking forty-seventh  is the                                                               
goal.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARPENTER responded  that  moving up  one  in the  ranking                                                               
would be an improvement.  He  expressed that the goal is not just                                                               
to move  up three  percentage points,  rather it  is to  look for                                                               
some positive direction, since the status quo is not doing this.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
7:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BROUSSARD,  continuing the  presentation, explained  that the                                                               
next few slides  address the result of the Tax  Cuts and Jobs Act                                                               
of 2017.   She said  slide 23 shows data  on tax cuts  from 2017.                                                               
On slide  24, she pointed  out that GDP  grew higher in  the U.S.                                                               
than  Europe.    Data  on   slide  25  showed  that  poverty  and                                                               
unemployment  rates went  down  after  the tax  cuts.   Slide  26                                                               
showed that U.S.  real median income went up after  the tax cuts,                                                               
while  unemployment rates  for  Hispanics went  down.   Slide  27                                                               
showed that  U.S. unemployment went  down after 2017, as  did the                                                               
rate for those  with less than a high school  diploma.  She moved                                                               
to slide  28, which  showed that more  money was  generated after                                                               
2017.  She moved to slide 29  to show a graph on the Organization                                                               
for  Economic Cooperation  and Development  (OECD) corporate  tax                                                               
rate versus  OECD corporate tax  revenues as a percentage  of GDP                                                               
from 1981 to  2018.  She explained that the  rate went down while                                                               
the percentage went up.  Slide  30 showed that six-month real GDP                                                               
growth  rates  annualized,  comparing the  administrations  under                                                               
President  Ronald   Regan  and  President  Barack   Obama.    She                                                               
concluded on slide  31, stating that the goal of  HB 109 would be                                                               
to make Alaska yellow on the map.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
7:40:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GROH  asked  about the  comparisons  in  Alaska's                                                               
brackets and  CIT in other states.   He stated if  two businesses                                                               
both make $10,000  in profit, while one is located  in Hawaii and                                                               
the  other in  Alaska,  under current  law,  he questioned  which                                                               
business would pay more in CIT.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER said that the CIT  rate in Hawaii is 6.4 percent,                                                               
while the top  tax bracket in Alaska is 9  percent.  He expressed                                                               
uncertainty as to the tax graduation in Hawaii.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GROH  clarified that for Alaska,  the figure would                                                               
be zero, while in Hawaii  the business would pay $440; therefore,                                                               
the taxes  would be lower  under the proposed  regime.  As  for a                                                               
business generating  $60,000 in  revenue, the business  would pay                                                               
about half  the taxes  than in  North Carolina.   He  pointed out                                                               
that  the Alaska  brackets are  not the  highest at  every level.                                                               
For  example,  if a  business  makes  $700,000  in Alaska  and  a                                                               
business does  the same  in Iowa,  the taxes  on the  business in                                                               
Alaska  would be  lower than  in  Iowa.   Regarding the  proposed                                                               
legislation,  he expressed  uncertainty  whether  there has  ever                                                               
been a fiscal note which has  this sort of loss in revenues while                                                               
adding 25  percent to the  deficit.  He requested  an explanation                                                               
of the fiscal note.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER responded  that there are companies  in the state                                                               
paying  9 percent  tax, while  the largest  corporations are  the                                                               
ones fitting  the tax rate  bracket.   He stated that  there were                                                               
21,152  CIT payers  in  2022.   He  stressed  that  the point  of                                                               
reducing the  bracket from 9  percent to  2 percent is  not about                                                               
the rates companies are paying  within the brackets, rather it is                                                               
about all  companies paying  a flat  two percent;  therefore, all                                                               
companies would be benefited except  the ones paying 2 percent to                                                               
begin with.   He said that the proposed legislation  would mean a                                                               
reduction of $300 million in revenue this fiscal year.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER, regarding the fiscal  note, pointed out that the                                                               
FY 24 appropriation column shows  a $169 million reduction in the                                                               
budget, and in the out years  starting with FY 25, a $328 million                                                               
reduction  in revenue  to the  state.   He expressed  the opinion                                                               
that the  state would  have to  "grapple" with  this if  CIT were                                                               
reduced.  He  suggested the proposed fiscal  package would reduce                                                               
taxes in  one area,  and it  would pick up  taxes in  a different                                                               
area.   He continued  that the shift  would have  a corresponding                                                               
positive impact  on economic  growth.   Conversely, if  the state                                                               
were  to  reduce  to  just  CIT, the  deficit  would  grow.    He                                                               
continued that  if the state  were to  reduce CIT, and  the state                                                               
experienced economic growth into the  future, the state would see                                                               
a corresponding  positive impact to  the economy because  of this                                                               
change.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:47:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  MCCABE asked,  with the  fiscal note  estimates, what                                                               
will happen  without outside factors,  like a new  company coming                                                               
into Alaska.   He  argued that a  hypothetical savings  cannot be                                                               
represented  by   corporations  foreseeing  a  lower   CIT.    He                                                               
continued  that fiscal  notes  show what  will  happen right  now                                                               
without  outside intervention.   He  suggested that  fiscal notes                                                               
are cut and dry, and do not show the hidden benefit or cost.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARPENTER  concurred  that   fiscal  notes  are  just  the                                                               
numbers.   He pointed out  that the change between  the reduction                                                               
in revenue from  FY 25, FY 26,  and FY 27, for  example, would go                                                               
from $328 million to $333  million to $350 million, respectively.                                                               
He stressed that  CIT is volatile, so it is  unknown what exactly                                                               
would happen.  He deferred  further explanation to the Department                                                               
of Revenue.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
7:50:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRANDON  SPANOS, Deputy  Director,  Tax  Division, Department  of                                                               
Revenue,  stated that  he wrote  the fiscal  note and  economists                                                               
performed  the revenue  impact analysis.   He  said the  starting                                                               
point  on  the  revenue  impact  was the  revenue  sources.    He                                                               
elaborated  that  2 percent  would  be  applied  to all  and  the                                                               
graduated rates would  go away.  He explained that  the figure is                                                               
estimated to  go up  every year because  CIT, under  current law,                                                               
shows growth; therefore, HB 109 would create a reduction in CIT.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  MCCABE reiterated whether  the fiscal  note estimates                                                               
would assume no new corporations coming to Alaska.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPANOS  responded yes, in  that the division did  not analyze                                                               
the impact  of new  companies coming  to the  state because  of a                                                               
lower tax rate.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  MCCABE asked if it  is possible to perform  the Monte                                                               
Carlo method on such a topic.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SPANO answered  that the  division  would need  to know  the                                                               
assumptions.   He  said it  has contracted  with a  company named                                                               
Chainbridge to do analysis, and there  is an associated cost.  If                                                               
there is  funding in  the budget, the  division could  request an                                                               
analysis.  He said another  option is to analyze recently reduced                                                               
CIT rates in other states to see the tax effects.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  MCCABE responded that  he is not  requesting economic                                                               
modeling at this time.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
7:53:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY  pointed out that  70 percent of  the state's                                                               
CIT comes  from oil, as  the state  receives $320 million  in oil                                                               
and gas  taxes.  He asked  whether the GDP growth  would increase                                                               
if  the state  cut the  revenue from  oil.   He further  asked if                                                               
there is a mechanism for the  state to reduce CIT for all non-oil                                                               
businesses  to 2  percent and  keep the  current $300  million in                                                               
revenue from oil and gas.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARPENTER responded  that, to  the extent  the legislature                                                               
can set the  rates, this is something which  could be considered.                                                               
He advised that he is not  suggesting this, as it would be unfair                                                               
to single  out specific  corporations.   He suggested  that there                                                               
may be other ways to do this.   He continued that the oil and gas                                                               
sector is challenged with growth  in Alaska, and growing the non-                                                               
oil private  sector economy  is the  goal.   He pointed  out that                                                               
most Alaskans  work in  the non-oil private  sector, and  this is                                                               
where most opportunities  are.  He considered  that many Alaskans                                                               
work in the  oil and gas sector, and he  expressed the desire not                                                               
to penalize this industry to  grow another portion of the state's                                                               
economy.   Furthermore,  he expressed  the opinion  that the  oil                                                               
industry should not  be singled out to pay more  in taxes because                                                               
it is already heavily taxed.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY referred to California's  high state tax.  He                                                               
said that  the state's CIT rate  is 8.84 percent, and  it charges                                                               
every  company a  flat rate.    He continued  that, according  to                                                               
Forbes, California  was 3rd in  GDP growth  in 2021.   He pointed                                                             
out that  while this state is  highly taxed, it still  manages to                                                               
be in the top three for GDP growth for a decade.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER responded that a  CIT reduction would be one part                                                               
of  the plan.   Furthermore,  Alaska has  different disadvantages                                                               
compared  to California,  namely, the  cost of  electricity.   He                                                               
said that  economic growth in  Alaska is more than  just reducing                                                               
CIT, it is  also providing economic activity with  a reduction in                                                               
the cost of energy.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:00:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GROH asked  Mr.  Spanos about  the other  factors                                                               
companies  should  consider,  other  than  CIT,  when  opening  a                                                               
business in Alaska.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SPANOS  answered  he  is  a tax  administrator  and  is  not                                                               
qualified to answer the question.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GROH  expressed concern  about "giving  away" more                                                               
than $3 million in tax revenue.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:02:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARPENTER  expressed the opinion  that the state  would not                                                               
be giving away $320 million in  tax revenue.  He clarified that a                                                               
CIT reduction  would have a  corresponding impact on  the state's                                                               
private sector  economy.  He  expressed the belief  that Alaskans                                                               
would like  to see this happen.   He suggested a  conversation on                                                               
how to address the deficit question.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:03:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR MCCABE announced that HB 109 was held over.                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB0109A.PDF HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM
HW&M 4/3/2024 6:00:00 PM
HB 109
HB 109 Bill Sponsor Statement.pdf HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM
HB 109
HB 109 Sectional analysis.pdf HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM
HB 109
HB109-DOR-TAX-03-17-23 Fiscal Note.pdf HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM
HB 109
HB 109 Presentation.pdf HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM
HB 109
HB0110A.PDF HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM
HW&M 3/29/2023 6:00:00 PM
HB 110
HB 110 Sponsor Statement PFD Bill.pdf HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM
HB 110 Sectional Analysis PFD statute.pdf HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM
HB110-DOR-PFD-03-24-23 Fiscal Note.pdf HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM
HB110-DOR-APFC-03-24-23 Fiscal Note.pdf HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM
HW&M Municipal Taxes - Alaska Municipal League Presentation.pdf HW&M 3/27/2023 6:00:00 PM