Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124
03/20/2017 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB105 | |
| HB134 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 105 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 134 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
HB 105-DENALI WOLF SPECIAL MANAGEMENT AREA
2:06:25 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON announced that the first order of business
would be HOUSE BILL NO. 105, "An Act establishing the Gordon
Haber Denali Wolf Special Management Area."
2:06:42 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR moved to adopt the proposed committee substitute
(CS) for HB 105, labeled 30-LS0408\O, Bullard, 3/16/17, as the
working document. There being no objection, Version O was
before the committee.
2:07:21 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON, sponsor of HB 105, noted that the original
bill has a fiscal note from the Department of Natural Resources
(DNR). However, he advised, Version O may generate a fiscal
note with minimal impact from the Department of Public Safety,
Division of Alaska Wildlife Troopers, and will possibly have a
fiscal note with zero impact from the Alaska Department of Fish
& Game (ADF&G). He reminded members that during today's House
of Representatives floor session he announced that the committee
would convene within 15 minutes of adjournment of the floor
session.
2:08:31 PM
MEGAN ROWE, Staff, Representative Andy Josephson, Alaska State
Legislature, on behalf of Representative Josephson, prime
sponsor of HB 105, explained that the original bill version
would have created the Denali Wolf Special Management Area to
protect wolves near Denali National Park and Preserve ("Denali
Park") and that the title in which it was drafted was
administered by DNR. However, she noted, DNR does not have the
authority to manage wildlife, and therefore, per advice of the
administration, Version O includes the same geographic area but
closes this area to the hunting and trapping of wolves.
2:09:45 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON reminded members that HB 105 was before the
committee on 2/10/17 and 2/15/17 and public testimony was taken.
He again opened public testimony on the bill.
DOUGLAS MCINTOSH testified that he has lived in Fairbanks for 46
years and wholeheartedly supports HB 105. He said he
specifically likes that the bill's purpose remains to protect
wolves for future generations of Alaskans and, as well, bolsters
the economy of Alaska through tourism. Seeing wild animals
living free in their natural environment is one reason he came
to Alaska, he added.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON closed public testimony on HB 105, after
ascertaining that a previous witness, Mr. Al Barrette of
Fairbanks, had no comment on the changes made in Version O.
2:12:46 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON recalled that during the 2/10/17 hearing
committee members raised questions on the original bill, such as
questions about private lands and whether the narrative which
stated that wolves come before all other things in the buffer
zone would mean "just that." To dispense with those legitimate
questions, he said, Version O would make a simple closure. He
related that ADF&G's web site lists about 37 areas as presently
closed to hunting or trapping. Regarding the closure concept,
he noted that a provision in the constitution [prohibits]
special and local legislation. However, he continued, case law
says that if something is of statewide importance and applies in
a local way, it may not necessarily be prohibited. For example,
on 2/10/17 it was heard that Denali Park has 650,000 visitors
per year and over $800 million is spent in salaries at the park.
Some people, he related, believe that as few as three trappers
are impacting the ability of visitors to see wolves in the park.
While they have rebounded some, the decline of wolves roughly
parallels when the State of Alaska, ADF&G, and the Board of Game
removed the buffer in question, or at least a buffer in similar
size and similar location near the Stampede Trail and east of
the George Parks Highway, although, he allowed, this may be a
contestable point.
2:16:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH advised that his vote on the bill will be
no. He said he has lived and worked in this area, including at
the Stampede mine in the late 1960s, and President Carter used
the Antiquities Act to set aside the area in the late 1970s.
This is a solution in search of a problem, he maintained. A
witness from ADF&G indicated that the wolf population in the
park ebbs and flows with game availability and game availability
impacts the wolf population greater than anything else, he
recalled. Alaska has enough park and reserve lands, he opined,
and work should be done on how to better utilize the lands that
are available to the state rather than setting aside properties.
He offered his belief that all or part of this proposal is in
the Denali Borough and suggested looking to the borough for
leadership regarding the trapping aspect.
2:18:01 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO apologized for arriving late to the
meeting and inquired whether the vote is for the committee
substitute (CS) or adoption of the bill.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON replied that he will treat Representative
Birch's statement as an objection, and said the vote is for the
question of whether the bill should move from committee.
CO-CHAIR TARR added that the committee adopted Version O as the
bill under consideration, but that no motion has been made to
move bill.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON reiterated his earlier explanation that
Version O creates a closure and no other designation.
2:18:58 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO said he is intimately familiar with this
area and will not be supporting the bill. Drawing attention to
the map of the proposed area, he said that the east side of the
Nenana River where the boundary goes is "absolutely crawling
with wolves." Wolves follow their food source and a portion of
the packs that were in the Stampede area have probably drifted
over due to the high moose population on that side of the river.
It is the largest pack he has ever seen, he added, and he
believes this pack will split soon. He related a conversation
he had with a Denali Park bus driver in which the driver said
the wolves were seen during one period of time because they had
chosen to den near the road, but once the den location changed
the wolves were only seen one at a time every once in a while.
Representative Talerico reported that this issue came up before
the Denali Borough while he was mayor of the borough, but a
draft ordinance before the borough died.
2:21:45 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said it makes sense to listen to the
local people's comments. One major wolf was killed, she
recalled, but one cannot go back in time and fix it. She
maintained that the bill is trying to address a specific wolf
pack that was being researched and was near and dear to people's
hearts, rather than the general wolf packs around the park. One
wolf is just as valuable being seen in the park as any other,
she continued, not just those being researched, and therefore
she will vote no.
2:23:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER referred to an article he read and said
that the science needs to be considered. Plenty of wolves are
there, he maintained, and without a food source a wolf pack
cannot be kept there, so trapping may not be the problem. It is
difficult to write a law so that maybe a wolf will be viewed
since what is trying to be done is to have wolf viewing by not
trapping. He questioned whether there is science behind the
bill and reiterated that there may be more involved than
trapping as the reason for why the wolves moved on.
2:26:09 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH noted he has a degree in biology and is
heartened to hear science being referenced. Because he comes
from a tourist town, he noticed that the North Star Borough's
resolution states that when the area was closed to trapping 49
percent of visitors saw wolves, while over the last three years
that number was only 4 percent, an all-time low. Since the
wolf population was decreased by about one-third of what it was
during that time, he said he cannot help but think that for the
residents of that area and for whoever would make a trip to
Denali Park, it could be a major economic factor going forward.
For example, he continued, the value of an individual humpback
whale has been assessed in terms of generating additional
tourist revenues and it is not cheap, so he would bet that the
value to the state overall of a single wolf in that area is very
considerable. It is economically wise to set aside a certain
area, he stated. All nature asks for is a space to exist and it
provides such incredible dividends - a pure stream of water
provides salmon, an area of wilderness provides all sorts of
economic drivers such as food for subsistence and other sorts of
harvest, as well as non-consumptive uses like from a tourist
dollar. Additionally, he continued, there is the loss of a
decades-long [research] data set, a rare and precious thing.
2:28:23 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR offered her appreciation of Representative
Parish's comments because in large part that is what is drawing
her to support the legislation. Denali Park has more than
500,000 visitors a year, she continued, and right now with the
state's fiscal situation the state is looking towards the
industries that are known to be sustainable and have growth
potential, and the state's tourism industry is certainly one of
those. Her hope is that people coming to Denali Park for that
experience will "stick around and spend a lot more money while
they're here." Tourism is important given that it is currently
the state's number three industry. Referencing a National
Geographic story and an article in the Los Angeles Times, she
reported that in 1999 a collared alpha female was shot and in
2012 a trapper dragged a horse carcass to an active wolf site
and set traps that caught a pregnant female belonging to the
East Fork Pack. In 2012 this same trapper caught the only
remaining breeding female in the Granite Creek Pack;
consequently, that pack produced no pups and was reduced from 15
wolves to 3. The trapper's comment, seemingly spoken with
pride, was that that was the third time he ruined millions of
people's Denali Park viewing experience. These types of
articles are not a good image for Alaska and give the state a
"black eye," she opined. Offering her support for the bill, she
said it is the right move for now and can be revisited in the
future and something else tried if the bill does not work.
2:31:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE stated he has always viewed wolves as a
biological resource, whether it is to put money in his wallet
when he personally handles it or to put money into the state
from people coming into Denali Park. If he sees more than two
wolves when out camping, he continued, then he has seen too
many. He said he is conflicted in that only half the battle is
won if it is done on the visitors' side; having the money come
in makes sense but it is a tough decision. Alaska should be
exciting for everyone, he opined, and whether it is moose or
wolves it translates into dollars for the economy or provides a
great story to tell the kids.
2:32:51 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND offered her appreciation for Co-Chair
Tarr's reference to the Los Angeles Times article because that
is where many of Alaska's tourists originate. She would much
prefer for it to be in the Los Angeles Times that Alaska is
working to protect these wolves and increase their numbers, she
continued, rather than aerial spotting of wolves by ADF&G and
the gassing of [pups] in their dens. Offering her support for
the bill, she noted that while wolves do not have regard for
boundaries, people do, and if this isn't done it will never be
known if it works. If this doesn't work it can be revisited in
the future, but at this point in time it would be wise to
respect the signs and help the wolves rebound.
2:34:00 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR moved to report CSHB 105, Version 30-LS0408\O,
Bullard, 3/16/17, out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO objected.
2:35:06 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Westlake, Drummond,
Parish, Tarr, and Josephson voted in favor of the motion to
report CSHB 105, Version 30-LS0408\O, Bullard, 3/16/17, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. Representatives Rauscher, Talerico, Birch, and
Johnson voted against it. Therefore, CSHB 105(RES) was reported
out of the House Resources Standing Committee by a vote of 5-4.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 134 Supporting Doc - BoG statute.pdf |
HRES 3/20/2017 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/24/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 134 |
| HB134 Sponsor Statement 2.23.17.pdf |
HRES 3/20/2017 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/24/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 134 |
| CSHB105 vers O.pdf |
HRES 3/20/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 105 |
| HB105 Summary of Changes.pdf |
HRES 3/20/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 105 |
| Map of Area in CS.pdf |
HRES 3/20/2017 1:00:00 PM |
|
| HB 105 Supporting Docs - BoG prop. 142 letters.pdf |
HRES 3/20/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 105 |
| HB0134A.PDF |
HRES 3/20/2017 1:00:00 PM HRES 3/24/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 134 |