Legislature(2025 - 2026)GRUENBERG 120

03/13/2025 03:15 PM House STATE AFFAIRS

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 89 GUN VIOLENCE PROTECTIVE ORDERS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Invited & Public Testimony --
*+ HB 2 DUI DIVERSION PROGRAM TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
              HB 89-GUN VIOLENCE PROTECTIVE ORDERS                                                                          
3:47:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARRICK  announced that the  final order of  business would                                                               
be  HOUSE  BILL  NO.  89,   "An  Act  relating  to  gun  violence                                                               
protective  orders;   relating  to  the  crime   of  violating  a                                                               
protective order;  relating to a central  registry for protective                                                               
orders;   relating  to   the  powers   of  district   judges  and                                                               
magistrates;  amending Rules  4  and 65,  Alaska  Rules of  Civil                                                               
Procedure,  and  Rule  9, Alaska  Rules  of  Administration;  and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:47:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON,  Alaska  State Legislature,  as  prime                                                               
sponsor,  presented HB  89.    He explained  the  reason for  the                                                               
proposed  legislation is  that every  day in  the United  States,                                                               
approximately 120 people die either  by shooting themselves or by                                                               
being shot  - a  statistically tragic  figure.   Suicide accounts                                                               
for 60  percent of gun  deaths in  the United States,  and Alaska                                                               
has  the  second  highest  rate  of gun  suicide  deaths  in  the                                                               
country.   He  reported that  between 2011  and 2020,  gun deaths                                                               
increased by  34 percent.   According to  the Center  for Disease                                                               
Control (CDC),  72 percent of  all firearm deaths in  Alaska were                                                               
firearm   suicides,  killing an  average of  2,500 residents  per                                                               
year.   He stated that  on average,  one Alaska resident  dies by                                                               
suicide firearm every three days.   In Alaska, residents are more                                                               
than two  and half times  likely to  die by firearm  suicide than                                                               
firearm homicide.   That said, HB  89 is not just  about Alaska's                                                               
tragic problem  with suicide; it  is also about  homicide deaths,                                                               
for  which  Representative  Josephson offered  his  understanding                                                               
Alaska ranks  fifth [highest] in  the country.  He  reported that                                                               
57 percent  of Alaskans keep  firearms in or around  their homes;                                                               
18 percent of firearm owners do not store them securely.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON remarked  on  a recent  poll by  Alaska                                                               
Survey  Research,  which  found  that  69  percent  of  Alaskans,                                                               
including  55 percent  of  Republicans and  72  percent of  rural                                                               
residents,  support a  policy  allowing a  family  member or  law                                                               
enforcement  to ask  a judge  to temporarily  suspend a  person's                                                               
access to  guns if  they have  evidence that  the person  poses a                                                               
significant  risk  to themself  or  others.   He  recognized  the                                                               
sensitivity of the bill.   He remarked that former Vice President                                                               
Pence,  when   governor  of  Indiana,   signed  a   gun  violence                                                               
protection  order  bill;  current  Republican  U.S.  Senator  and                                                               
former governor  of Florida,  Rick Scott,  signed a  gun violence                                                               
protection bill; President Donald Trump  for a brief time in 2019                                                               
supported  the  concept  of  legislation  like  HB  89;  and  the                                                               
National  Rifle  Association  (NRA),   "for  a  time"  and  "with                                                               
caveats" expressed interest in the  bill.  He acknowledged people                                                               
could be concerned about the  proposed legislation and asked that                                                               
they be willing to "hear the case."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:52:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   JOSEPHSON  directed   attention  to   an  [Excel                                                               
spreadsheet]  document in  the committee  file, [titled  "5th and                                                               
14th Amendment Due Process Offerings in  HB 89"].  He said it has                                                               
dual features and  everything that matters is in Section  6 of HB
89.  He said  the document acts as a sectional  and user guide to                                                               
bill and explained the misguided  due process aspect of the bill.                                                               
He spoke about due process,  notice, and opportunity to be heard,                                                               
in the Bill of Rights.   He said that everybody gets due process.                                                               
He said the respondent - the  person being challenged as to their                                                               
right to  bear arms -  must be given  due process.   He continued                                                               
line  by line  in the  spreadsheets,  giving an  overview of  the                                                               
concepts of a gun violence  protective order (GVPO), and ex parte                                                               
GVPO,  an  emergency  GVPO,  surrender  of  firearms,  return  of                                                               
firearms, and  that the titled  owner -  not the respondent  - of                                                               
firearms can seek early return of  firearms.  He noted that GVPOs                                                               
can be modified by any party.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:01:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON reflected  there may  be a  tendency to                                                               
think that  HB 89 is  "outrageous."  To  that, he noted  that "it                                                               
essentially exists now."  He then  explained the reason for HB 89                                                               
is that it does not exist in  the bulk of the cases where someone                                                               
is experiencing suicidal  ideation.  The bill would be  a tool to                                                               
help stop someone  from harming themself.  It would  also allow a                                                               
police  officer to  receive an  emergency  risk protective  order                                                               
(ERPO)  or GVPO  against  someone  who is  not  a family  member.                                                               
There  have been  five state  courts  that have  looked at  these                                                               
types of bills  and published the decisions that  "these laws are                                                               
constitutional."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:04:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON  discussed  the issues  of  the  Second                                                               
Amendment.    He   gave  some  examples  of  court   cases.    He                                                               
highlighted an  8 to 1  U.S. Supreme Court decision,  from United                                                             
State v.  Rahimi, (June 21,  2024), that "an individual  found by                                                             
the court  to pose a  credible threat  to the physical  safety of                                                               
another may  be temporarily disarmed  consistent with  the Second                                                               
Amendment."   He indicated  this shows  that there  is historical                                                               
foundation.  Regarding  this case and HB 89, he  questioned why a                                                               
court would  say that it  is okay  to leave guns  around suicidal                                                               
people.  He  said there is evidence that suggests  this bill will                                                               
work.   He  acknowledged  that  firearms owners,  understandably,                                                               
don't want to  be "broad brushed" as  bad.  He stated  that HB 89                                                               
is not wielding  a broad brush; it  says that if a  court finds a                                                               
person to  be a  threat to  the community  or themself,  then the                                                               
court will intervene.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:11:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCABE  noted  that  regarding  United  State  v.                                                             
Rahimi,  (June 21,  2024),  Rahimi was  under  Texas state  court                                                             
order.   He cited Article 1,  Section 19, of the  Constitution of                                                               
the State of Alaska and said  it explicitly protects the right to                                                               
keep and  bear arms, including for  self-defense and subsistence.                                                               
He  asked  how  the  bill   sponsor,  through  HB  89,  justified                                                               
overriding this  state level protection "based  on the subjective                                                               
assessments  of   potential  danger  from  a   family  member  or                                                               
significant  other or  ex-girlfriend or  whatever."   He said  he                                                               
thinks  Alaska's   constitution  is  stronger  than   the  Second                                                               
Amendment of the United States Constitution.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   JOSEPHSON   responded   that  he   checked   for                                                               
annotations in  AS 18.66, the  current law.   He said  the Alaska                                                               
Supreme Court  has never taken up  a challenge to the  law, which                                                               
is 27  years old.   He  said he thinks  the Alaska  Supreme Court                                                               
would say that there are exceptions.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE asked Representative  Josephson if he could                                                               
provide historical  examples of  Alaska laws  allowing preemptive                                                               
firearms  seizure  without due  process  that  would support  the                                                               
constitutionality of HB 89.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON  answered no,  but  he  noted that  the                                                               
Alaska Supreme Court does not  do historical analysis in the same                                                               
way that the U.S. Supreme Court does.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:15:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE  first noted that  she had received  more e-                                                               
mails  on  this  issue  than  on the  issue  of  education,  thus                                                               
positing that  the bill sponsor  had "created a fire  storm" with                                                               
HB 89.   She referred to Section 6, which  addresses the issue of                                                               
GVPOs,  and she  questioned,  "What crime  have they  committed?"                                                               
She said  it is troubling  that the  entirety of the  bill raises                                                               
"at  least five  constitutional questions."   She  indicated that                                                               
under HB 89,  anyone who "reasonably believes" can  turn in their                                                               
own  family member  for "simply  owning a  firearm."   She asked,                                                               
"What do you say to the public about that?"                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOSEPHSON  replied   by  discussing  findings  of                                                               
assault  that have  not  been convicted.    He reemphasized  that                                                               
[under  HB  89]  it would  need  to  be  shown  that there  is  a                                                               
significant danger  to self or  others in determining  whether to                                                               
take away  someone's firearms.   He said  the courts would  do an                                                               
analysis.   He  noted that  in some  states, the  percentage that                                                               
issue for an individual petition is  much lower than for a police                                                               
petition; this tells him that  the courts are considering whether                                                               
an individual  is "just mad at  their brother," for example.   He                                                               
noted  that  the State  of  California  added a  misdemeanor  for                                                               
making false statements that lead to  the issuance of a GVOP.  He                                                               
said  he   understands  that  people   are  allowed   to  protect                                                               
themselves and in public, but  fundamentally they are not allowed                                                               
to threaten  people with firearms.   Further, he  questioned that                                                               
people  would  ignore  a  suicidal   person  who  has  access  to                                                               
firearms.   He concluded that  there are  moments in time  when a                                                               
person  may   feel  the  need  to   threaten  someone,  including                                                               
discharging a  weapon, to keep  their family safe.   The proposed                                                               
legislation underlines that  "you've got to be  right when you're                                                               
making these  decisions; you can't  just randomly  and recklessly                                                               
put  people  in  ...  that  sort of  threat"  or  "you  could  be                                                               
vulnerable ... to a gun violence protection order."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VANCE   expressed  concern  about  the   lack  of                                                               
evidence required under HB 89.   She noted the 10-day requirement                                                               
but pointed out that a person could  be out of town and return to                                                               
find  all their  firearms  had been  confiscated because  someone                                                               
else thinks  they should not  have those firearms.   Further, she                                                               
questioned the  court deciding  in such  a scenario  the person's                                                               
right to bear arms.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON  pointed to  a 3-day order,  where there                                                               
is  a test  of  13  items police  officers  would  have to  find,                                                               
including recent acts  or threats of violence, a  pattern of acts                                                               
or  threats  of  violence,  imminent  threat,  and  violation  of                                                               
protection orders, among others.   He then referred to the 10-day                                                               
notice and opined  that that gives the person time  to say, "This                                                               
is unfair" and "This is wrong."   He discussed a 20-day order for                                                               
which attempts must  be made to notify the person,  and for which                                                               
the  court must  find that  the respondent  poses "a  significant                                                               
danger of injury  to self or others."  He  submitted that this is                                                               
much  tougher than  "reasonable belief."   He  added that  in the                                                               
short-term order there must be "immediate danger."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:23:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CARRICK   announced  the  committee  would   hear  invited                                                               
testimony on HB 89.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:24:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAKE  CHANDLER,  Sworn  Investigator,   Office  of  the  District                                                               
Attorney, Deschutes County,  began invited testimony on  HB 89 by                                                               
offering his  employment history.   During  previous work  on the                                                               
police force responding  to mental health calls,  he became aware                                                               
of the need  for preventative measures to  address issues related                                                               
to  mental health  culminating  in violence.    He mentioned  two                                                               
cases where  people were known  to be living with  mental illness                                                               
prior to  committing murders.   He talked about  experiences with                                                               
ERPO filing,  stating that he and  his team filed only  for those                                                               
they believed were at risk for  suicide or homicide.  He reported                                                               
that from January 1 to  December 31, 2023, Deschutes County filed                                                               
43 ERPOs,  the most of any  county in Oregon.   He explained this                                                               
high rate can be attributed  to the comprehensive local training,                                                               
as well  as the  accessibility of provided  resources.   He noted                                                               
that initially training  was tailored to law  enforcement but now                                                               
includes  others,  including  support  groups.    He  related  an                                                               
instance  wherein he  was able  to diffuse  a situation  where an                                                               
individual  with  suicidal ideation  was  intent  on obtaining  a                                                               
firearm in order to insure that police would open fire.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:29:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AOIBHEANN   CLINE,  Lobbyist,   National  Rifle   Association  of                                                               
America,  began her  invited testimony  in opposition  to HB  89.                                                               
She  said HB  89  is  touted as  a  suicide  prevention bill  but                                                               
"misdirects  attention  to  otherwise lawfully  owned  firearms."                                                               
She related that  according to the Department of  Health (DOH) in                                                               
Alaska, the  highest rates of  suicide attempts in Alaska  by age                                                               
group are ages 11-14 and 15-19,  and she noted that these are age                                                               
groups "that  cannot otherwise lawfully purchase  handguns."  She                                                               
said the bill is referred to as  a "red flag law" because it only                                                               
removes  firearms without  providing  any additional  assistance.                                                               
She  spoke about  increased mental  health issues  and a  link to                                                               
danger  related to  red flag  issue response  to an  individual's                                                               
home.    She reported  that  in  Alaska,  "only 45.8  percent  of                                                               
murders committed  with a weapon  are with a firearm,"  which she                                                               
said  is   "considerably  less  than   half."    She   said  this                                                               
demonstrates "a  misdirected attention  to a firearm  rather than                                                               
an  actual solution."    She  stated that  HB  [89] raises  major                                                               
concerns  regarding  constitutional   violations,  and  she  gave                                                               
examples.  Further, she said  it raises administrative issues and                                                               
is a  tool ripe  for political  abuse.  She  said the  bill would                                                               
allow  individuals to  be stripped  of their  right to  bear arms                                                               
based on  "lose, third-party accusations," without  notice or the                                                               
ability  to  represent themselves  in  court.   She  mentioned  a                                                               
response  by  the American  Civil  Liberties  Union (ACLU)  to  a                                                               
similar  red flag  bill in  Rhode Island.   She  talked about  ex                                                               
parte  hearings  where  an  individual has  no  right  to  defend                                                               
themself.    She  mentioned  further  amendment  violations  when                                                               
search and seizure happens at  the individual's home and unlawful                                                               
"stop and frisk" possibilities.   She talked about the difficulty                                                               
of rural Alaskans in turning over  firearms within 24 hours.  She                                                               
asserted that  HB 89  would deprive  individuals of  their rights                                                               
based on "weak and nebulous  standards."  Further, it would allow                                                               
the  removal  of  self-defense   tools  of  victims  of  domestic                                                               
violence, while offering no real solution to gun violence.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:34:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTOPHER CARITA began invited testimony  by sharing that he is                                                               
soon  to  be retired  from  the  police  force  and has  been  an                                                               
investigator  and part  of a  threat response  unit.   He further                                                               
shared  his  educational  background supporting  his  ability  to                                                               
discuss the  topic.   He cautioned  getting into  "what-ifs" when                                                               
speaking  theoretically about  an idea  on  paper.   He said  law                                                               
enforcement  people  are  "gun  folks"  who  respect  the  Second                                                               
Amendment and  appreciate the gravity of  requesting a protection                                                               
order,  and  they  do  so  under oath.    The  aforementioned  13                                                               
criteria,  he  noted,  are evidence-based  to  indicate  risk  of                                                               
future  violence; the  more boxes  ticked, the  likelier officers                                                               
are  to use  a protection  order.   He shared  an example  of one                                                               
protection order, when a man under  stress wielded a gun in front                                                               
of his  family and threatened  self-harm.   The man was  taken to                                                               
the  hospital.   Although he  had committed  no crimes,  his wife                                                               
said he had  displayed this behavior for five years.   Mr. Carita                                                               
talked about the gray area that was exemplified in this example.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:38:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARRICK opened public testimony on HB 89.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:40:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAN  CAULFIELD,  representing  self,  said she  is  a  parent  in                                                               
support  of HB  89,  as  it would  give  family  members and  law                                                               
enforcement a tool  to temporarily remove firearms  from a person                                                               
in crisis  that is showing  signs of harming themself  or others.                                                               
She  said  the  Office  of Veterans'  Affairs  and  the  American                                                               
Foundation  for  Suicide Prevention,  as  well  as other  suicide                                                               
prevention  organizations recognize  the  importance of  ensuring                                                               
that  guns cannot  be  accessed  when there  is  a mental  health                                                               
crisis.    She  noted  21  states  have  adopted  "extreme  risk"                                                               
legislation  to prevent  firearms  suicide,  mass shootings,  and                                                               
school shootings, thus  saving lives.  She  noted the Connecticut                                                               
law was associated with a  14 percent reduction in suicide rates;                                                               
10 years following a similar  law, Indiana found its suicide rate                                                               
reduced  by 7.5  percent.    She echoed  the  previous report  of                                                               
Alaska's  death  by firearm  suicide  being  the highest  in  the                                                               
country,  more than  double the  national average.   She  offered                                                               
further statistics.   She  emphasized that  this is  a recognized                                                               
public  health crisis  in Alaska  and implored  the committee  to                                                               
begin taking firearm deaths seriously and working on a solution.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:42:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NANCY BALE, representing  self, noted that she is  a school nurse                                                               
and would  take an epidemiological  approach to her  testimony in                                                               
support of  HB 89.   She talked  about Alaska having  second- and                                                               
third-tier strategies  but no first-tier  strategies in  terms of                                                               
harm reduction/prevention.  She  spoke about the alert, lockdown,                                                               
inform, counter,  evacuate (ALICE)  strategy used in  schools and                                                               
noted that  that is employed when  there is already a  shooter on                                                               
the  premises.   She  said  ALICE can  save  lives  but does  not                                                               
prevent  gun  violence.    Another method  is  called  "Stop  the                                                               
Bleed,"  which trains  on ways  to minimize  death from  grievous                                                               
wounds.   She said this  is another example  of a response  to an                                                               
epidemic that  is harm reduction  only - not  primary prevention.                                                               
She said HB  89 proposes primary prevention.  She  opined that no                                                               
school  student   ever  should  experience  the   trauma  of  gun                                                               
violence.  She  said she hoped the committee would  support HB 89                                                               
to "help us get primary prevention care in Alaska."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:45:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DIANE DESLOOVER,  representing self,  testified in support  of HB
89.   She echoed the  previously noted statistics  about Alaska's                                                               
firearm deaths  and stated her  shock that Alaska has  "almost no                                                               
laws related  to gun  regulations or gun  ownership."   She noted                                                               
the laws enacted in other states.   She said HB 89 is a proactive                                                               
bill "to  respond to  clear and  present danger."   She  cited an                                                               
Alaska  Survey Research  2018  survey,  titled "Alaska  Attitudes                                                               
Toward  Gun  Ownership  and Regulation,"  which  determined  that                                                               
support for  an ERPO  was 84  percent statewide.   She  said this                                                               
eightieth   percentile  was   reflected  in   "five  battleground                                                               
states."  She asked the committee to pass HB 89.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:47:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
THERESE LEWANDOWSKI,  representing self, testified in  support of                                                               
HB 89.  She  said it seems that gun advocates  seem to think "gun                                                               
safety people" are plotting to rid  them of their guns, which she                                                               
emphasized  is not  true.    She spoke  about  the importance  of                                                               
preventing  someone from  taking  their own  life and  preventing                                                               
someone  from using  a  firearm  in a  threatening  manner, in  a                                                               
moment of rage.  She said she  has been a victim and knows others                                                               
who  have  been  victims.   She  highlighted  suicides  and  mass                                                               
shootings.   She  asked committee  members to  consider that  the                                                               
next [victim]  could be their  loved one,  and she urged  them to                                                               
show their constituents that they value gun safety.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:49:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TRACIE BROWN, representing  self, testified in support  of HB 89.                                                               
She noted that she and her  husband are co-guardians of her adult                                                               
brother, who is  a vulnerable person addressing  drug and alcohol                                                               
abuse.   He lives  on his  own and has  been collecting  guns for                                                               
safety, and  Ms. Brown said  she is concerned but  cannot legally                                                               
stop  him from  buying firearms.   She  related that  her brother                                                               
reacted to  hallucinations by  shooting, and  one of  the bullets                                                               
ended up  on the neighbor's  porch.   He was charged  with second                                                               
and  fourth  degree  felony  gun charges,  as  well  as  reckless                                                               
endangerment;  however,  he  was  deemed  unfit  to  stand  trial                                                               
because of his mental incapacities and all charges were dropped.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:51:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAT MARTIN, representing self, testified  in opposition to HB 89.                                                               
He noted that he  is a member of Alaska Gun  Rights.  He reported                                                               
that this year, 321 individuals  were disarmed under the State of                                                               
Michigan's red flag law; of  those, 237 confiscations were issued                                                               
ex parte.   He asserted  that red flag  laws are ripe  for abuse.                                                               
He noted seven cases were  in homes with young children; however,                                                               
none of the  cases indicated that the children had  access to the                                                               
firearms.   He  predicted that  "the road  ahead" under  red flag                                                               
laws is  that parents will  be targeted regarding their  right to                                                               
keep  and bear  arms based  on their  minor children's  behavior,                                                               
which he  opined is unjust.   Mr. Martin said HB  89 would create                                                               
"a  pathway for  law abiding  Alaskans to  be forcibly  disarmed"                                                               
with as little as 24-hour notice.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:54:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TOM BOUTIN, representing  self, testified in opposition  to HB 89                                                               
as legislation  that would  enable the seizure  of "all  guns and                                                               
ammo possessed by Alaskans, who have  broken no laws but may have                                                               
been accused  of intending  to break  a law."   He pointed  to AS                                                               
18.55.820(11) in  HB 89 and  noted that seizure could  occur even                                                               
if the  never-indicted and  never-convicted Alaskan  were accused                                                               
of  a felony  any time  in the  past and  found not  guilty.   He                                                               
opined,  "No one  should support  taking anything  lawfully owned                                                               
from someone who has broken no  law."  He stated that threatening                                                               
to assault  is a crime.   He noted  that the justice  system must                                                               
indict, bring to  trial, and convict someone before  any of their                                                               
rights are removed, and he  underlined that all rights have equal                                                               
importance.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:55:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL PERRINO,  representing self, noted  that he is  a veteran                                                               
and  former law  enforcement officer,  who  is opposed  to HB  89                                                               
because it  "flies in  the face  of due process."   He  said [the                                                               
right to bear  arms] is a constitutional right,  not a privilege.                                                               
He noted that any  number of objects can be used  to do harm, and                                                               
he asked  that focus be  given to the  mental health aspect.   He                                                               
emphasized that the proposed legislation  is "nothing more than a                                                               
Band-Aid that takes away an individual's right."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:57:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GORDAN WILLIAMS,  representing self,  testified in support  of HB
89.  He said he thinks  the proposed legislation would serve as a                                                               
tool  to  take firearms  out  of  the equation  while  addressing                                                               
mental health.  He noted that  in excess of 90 percent of suicide                                                               
attempts with a  firearm are "successful," which  gives no chance                                                               
for an individual  to seek the help that can  lower the chance of                                                               
them  making a  second attempt  on their  life.   He acknowledged                                                               
there  would be  plenty of  remarks made  about constitutionality                                                               
and due  process but  indicated that  a closer  examination would                                                               
show  that  "it's   not  that  much  different   than  all  legal                                                               
situations  where  the  courts make  decisions  based  on  what's                                                               
brought  to them."    He expressed  his  hope that  HB  89, as  a                                                               
prevention bill, could  move forward; it would  "keep people from                                                               
making tragic mistakes."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:59:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SALLY RUE, representing  self, testified that she is  a gun owner                                                               
in  support  of HB  89.    She stated  that  gun  violence is  an                                                               
epidemic  and  needs to  be  addressed.    She advised  that  the                                                               
statistics can  be addressed  "through judicious  applications of                                                               
legislative solutions, through community  norms, and also through                                                               
individual  actions."   She said  she never  again wants  to face                                                               
comforting  those  who  have  lost  a loved  one,  and  she  said                                                               
reasonable steps  can be  taken to  address the  tragedies "while                                                               
preserving people's  constitutional rights."  She  stated that in                                                               
many of  the cases of suicide  and gun violence there  were clear                                                               
warning signs  in advance, and  HB 89 would provide  "a temporary                                                               
tool for  families and  law enforcement  to address  those before                                                               
it's too late."  She referred to instances in Alaska.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:02:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FRANK RUE,  representing self, testified  that he is a  gun owner                                                               
and advocate  of safe  gun storage,  who said,  "I agree  with my                                                               
wife."   He  shared that  a friend  and family  member exhibiting                                                               
clear signs of  suicidal ideation, and the  families involved had                                                               
no option to  secure the guns from the individual  in crisis.  He                                                               
indicated "both  died" under this  scenario, and if  the families                                                               
had had a  way to go to  the police and get  temporary removal of                                                               
firearms, then  those in crisis  would have  had a chance  to get                                                               
help  and later  have the  firearm(s) returned.   He  thanked the                                                               
committee  for its  efforts in  hearing  the bill  and asked  its                                                               
members  to  consider a  constitutional  solution  that not  only                                                               
protects the right to bear arms  but also "our rights to live and                                                               
not be harmed."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:04:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SPENCER KING,  representing self,  testified in opposition  to HB
89.    He  said,  "They're  using suicide  and  tugging  on  your                                                               
heartstrings as cover to pass  this anti-gun bill that's gonna be                                                               
abused."    He  expressed  concern  that  under  HB  89,  an  ex-                                                               
girlfriend,  for example,  could "have  the police  show up"  and                                                               
confiscate a person's gun, and if  ex parte, it could happen at 5                                                               
a.m. "and kicking in their door with  no notice."  Even if not ex                                                               
parte,  the person  would still  need to  go to  court to  defend                                                               
themself.   He asked  the committee  not to  work on  taking guns                                                               
away from law-abiding citizens.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:06:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  HANNA, representing  self, testified  in opposition  to HB
89.   He explained that  no matter how well-intentioned  the bill                                                               
[sponsor], the proposed legislation is  "too open for abuse."  He                                                               
mentioned misrepresentation  related to  divorce and  dispute and                                                               
"folks  that are  unfairly  punished" and  predicted  that HB  89                                                               
would "open the  door to anyone to abuse  the system," especially                                                               
in  considering  the  ex  parte emergency  order  aspect  of  the                                                               
legislation.   He said he thinks  this would not be  in line with                                                               
constitutional intent.   Further,  the bill  would do  nothing to                                                               
help someone  recover their  guns or  get restitution;  "it's all                                                               
against the person  and there's nothing there to help  them."  He                                                               
commented  on political  polarization and  said he  thinks HB  89                                                               
would drive  a deeper wedge.   He said  he would like  the mental                                                               
health aspect  of the issue  addressed, but not  the confiscation                                                               
of firearms.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:08:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CLARE ROSS,  representing self,  testified in  support of  HB 89.                                                               
She questioned why  the idea of preventing  suicidal or homicidal                                                               
individuals  from   having  access  to  firearms   is  considered                                                               
outrageous.   She posed  examples of an  unstable neighbor  and a                                                               
suicidal child  to illustrate  instances where  removing firearms                                                               
could  be  considered  beneficial.     She  shared  her  personal                                                               
experience of May  24, 2020, when she received a  phone call that                                                               
her son, Luis, was in critical  care and his friend, Andrew, dead                                                               
after  being  shot  by  a  neighbor,  who  was  having  a  mental                                                               
breakdown.    She  said  the  neighbor who  shot  them  had  been                                                               
reported multiple times to the police  in the weeks leading up to                                                               
the shooting and was seen by  police in a disturbed state of mind                                                               
the day  before the  shooting.   She questioned  why, in  a state                                                               
with   high  rates   of  domestic   violence  and   suicide,  the                                                               
legislature would allow people to  terrorize their neighbors with                                                               
guns  and not  put a  barrier between  a suicidal  individual and                                                               
firearms.   She urged support for  HB 89 and further  urged those                                                               
with  concerns  to   address  them  with  the   bill  sponsor  to                                                               
strengthen the proposed legislation.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:11:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ODETTE EDGAR, representing  self, testified in support  of HB 89,                                                               
which she  suggested could help  lower Alaska's rates  of suicide                                                               
and homicide.   She noted that two years ago,  in February, there                                                               
was a  mass shooting at  the University of Michigan,  in Lansing.                                                               
Following  that  was  the  aforementioned  ERPO  enacted  by  the                                                               
legislature.   That ERPO has  existed for  one year now,  and the                                                               
reported  outcomes include:   391  complaints  filed; 287  orders                                                               
issued; and  84 complaints denied.   She said this  suggests that                                                               
the  courts  in Michigan  were  not  "rubber stamping"  requests.                                                               
Further,  the   State  of  Michigan   has  penalties   for  false                                                               
statements.  She noted that  [no false statements] were made that                                                               
first  year;  further, there  were  zero  cases of  a  respondent                                                               
failing to comply with the ERPO.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:13:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SALLY DONALDSON,  representing self,  testified in support  of HB
89.  She  said she is a retired school  counselor, who feels that                                                               
the legislature  must take steps  to lower deaths by  firearms in                                                               
Alaska.   She said 21 other  states have enacted laws  similar to                                                               
HB 89.  She  said she knows far too many  children that have been                                                               
harmed by firearms  - some of them killed.   She recalled that in                                                               
1996, Evan Ramsey at age 16  walked into a high school in Bethel,                                                               
Alaska,  and killed  two people;  in 2002,  a young  Juneau woman                                                               
fatally  shot herself;  and in  2008, two  freshman kids  skipped                                                               
school and  played a game with  a gun resulting in  one death and                                                               
one  severely injured,  with lasting  effects.   She thanked  the                                                               
committee for  its attention to  the issue and urged  its members                                                               
to move HB 89 out of committee.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:15:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JANE ANDREEN, representing  self, testified in support  of HB 89.                                                               
She noted  she spent 36  years working  in the areas  of domestic                                                               
violence  and sexual  assault, as  well  as public  health.   She                                                               
shared a  personal story of  her own deep depression  12-13 years                                                               
ago, noting that  she was certain if  she had access to  a gun at                                                               
that time,  she would  not be  alive today.   She  emphasized the                                                               
importance of having tools in  place to help people going through                                                               
situations like hers.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:17:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICK  MCCLURE,  President,  Alaska  Gun Rights,  stated  that  he                                                               
represents  thousands of  Alaskans  that have  signed a  petition                                                               
against HB  89.   He stated that  the proposed  legislation would                                                               
violate Article I,  Section 7, regarding due process  of law, and                                                               
Article I,  Section 19, regarding the  right to bear arms  - both                                                               
from the Constitution  of the State of Alaska.   He asked that HB
89 "go no further than this committee."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:18:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TERRY NICHOLS,  representing self, stated his  adamant opposition                                                               
to  HB 89,  as legislation  that would  strip [away]  law-abiding                                                               
firearm owners'  constitutional rights.   He said the  bill would                                                               
do nothing  to help  people's mental  problems and  suggested the                                                               
committee   look   at   AS  47.30.700,   addressing   involuntary                                                               
commitment.   He  listed instances  where he  said red  flag laws                                                               
were "on  the books and failed,"  as follows:  the  2020 Highland                                                               
Park  shooting, in  Illinois; the  2022 supermarket  shooting, in                                                               
Buffalo, New York;  the 2018 high school  shooting, in [Parkland,                                                               
Florida];  the  2021  nightclub shooting,  in  Colorado  Springs,                                                               
Colorado;  the 2018  Sacramento Library  shooting in  Sacramento,                                                               
California; the 2021 Santa  Clara Valley Transportation Authority                                                               
shooting, in  San Jose,  California; the  2021 FedEx  shooting in                                                               
Indianapolis, Indiana; the 2021  King Supers supermarket shooting                                                               
in  Boulder,  Colorado;  the  2019   SunTrust  Bank  shooting  in                                                               
Sebring, Florida;  the 2018  Borderline Bar  & Grill  shooting in                                                               
Thousand Oaks, California; and the  2015 Umpqua Community College                                                               
shooting in Roseburg, Oregon.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:20:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARIAN CLOUGH,  representing self,  testified as  a gun  owner in                                                               
support of HB 89.  She said  the bill does provide due process to                                                               
temporarily  remove firearms  from  those who  pose  a threat  to                                                               
others or  themselves.  She said  there currently are laws  in 21                                                               
states, including "red states" such  as Florida and Indiana.  She                                                               
spoke  about ERPOs  saving the  lives of  Alaskans and  urged the                                                               
committee to support HB 89.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:22:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARRICK announced that public testimony would be left open                                                                
for a future hearing.  She encouraged all who testified to                                                                      
submit their testimony electronically.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
[HB 89 was held over.]                                                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 2 Sponsor Statement Ver A.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Version A.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Fiscal Note DOA-DMV-03-07-2025.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Fiscal Note DOA-PDA-3-7-2025.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Fiscal Note DPS-CJISP-3-7-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Fiscal Note JUD-ACS-03-10-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Fiscal Note LAW-CJL-03-07-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Backup Conviction or Diversion.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Backup Criminal Justice Diversion and Importance of Retention.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Backup Post intervention Reoffence of DUI.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Support Doc. National Drug Resource Center - DUIDWI Courts Brief.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB89 Sponsor Statement.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Ver A.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 Sectional Analysis Ver A.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Fiscal Note DOA-OPA-3-7-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Fiscal Note DOA-PDA-3-7-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Fiscal Note DPS-AST-3-7-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Fiscal Note DPS-CJIS-3-7-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Fiscal Note JUD-ACS-03-07-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Fiscal Note LAW-CJL-03-06-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup1- Fact Sheet.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup2- Protective Orders study abstract.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup3- 2019 Leg Research Report.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup4- Firearm Injuries in Alaska, 2009-2015.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup5- In Alaska, a high bar.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup6 - Abuse victims say gun surrender laws save lives.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup7- Red Flag Laws in the 116th Congress.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup8- JURIST Constitional Case for Red Flag Laws 2019.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup9- ERPOs Reduce Suicides 2.28.18.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup10- gun-violence-in-the-united-states 2022.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 Backup Support Resolution ALPHA.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 Support LTR Alaska Chapter American Academcy of Pediatrics.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Written Testimony Oppose Rec'd 3-12-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Backup Alaska Gun Rights Petition Rec'd 3-12-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Backup Alaska Gun Owners Petition Signers 3-12-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB89 backup11- North Dakota legislative council letter.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
Josephson HB89 table 3-25.xlsx HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 89 Written Testimony Support Rec'd 3-12-25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 2 Sectional Analysis Ver A.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB89.OppositionLetters.McCabeOffice.3.13.25.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 89
HB 2 Memorandum of Law.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2
HB 2 Separation of Powers Explained.pdf HSTA 3/13/2025 3:15:00 PM
HB 2