Legislature(2023 - 2024)ADAMS 519
02/23/2024 08:30 AM House FINANCE
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB83 | |
| HB145 | |
| HB174 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 83 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 145 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 174 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HOUSE BILL NO. 83
"An Act reestablishing the Citizens' Advisory
Commission on Federal Management Areas in Alaska; and
providing for an effective date."
8:38:43 AM
Co-Chair Foster noted the bill had last been heard in May
2023. He asked the sponsor to provide a review of the
legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE RAUSCHER, SPONSOR, thanked the
committee for hearing the bill. He relayed that the bill
would reestablish the Citizens' Advisory Commission on
Federal Areas (CACFA) in Alaska, which sunset in 2021. The
bill set a new sunset date of June 30, 2031. The commission
was comprised of ten public members, one senator, and one
representative who reflected the diversity of users of
federal land in Alaska and were appointed by the governor
and legislature. He stated that CACFA had operated for
decades as an independent and impartial source for
information and a center for advocacy on statehood, Alaska
Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA), and Alaska National
Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA) issues impacting
all Alaskans. He stated that CACFA helped Alaskans navigate
through complex regulations and worked with federal
agencies to ensure congressional intent was implemented
with respect to Alaska's interests. He asked his staff to
review changes to the bill resulting from work that took
place over the interim.
8:41:00 AM
RYAN MCKEE, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE RAUSCHER, shared
that Alaska Federation of Natives (AFN) and Native Peoples
Action (NPA) had shared their concerns over the summer with
the bill sponsor. In response to the concerns, the sponsor
was proposing several changes. The first change clarified
that the establishment of CACFA within the Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) was for administrative purposes
only. The sponsor's office had received concern that by
housing the commission within DNR it was viewed as another
branch of the department. The intent was for CACFA to
operate autonomously with its own decision making power.
The second change would add language clarifying that CACFA
would determine which matters it would hear and consider.
The goal was to clarify that the commission acted on its
own behalf and not on behalf of the department. The third
change would require that the public members of the
commission represent all four Alaska judicial districts,
with no more than three members from each of the districts.
The goal was to ensure fair representation throughout
Alaska. The fourth change would require at least one member
of the commission to be enrolled in a federally recognized
tribe and another member to be a shareholder in an ANCSA
corporation. The goal was to ensure representation from
rural Alaska. The fifth change would move the bill's
effective date from July 1, 2023, to July 1, 2024.
Co-Chair Foster listed individuals available to testify. He
invited members to ask questions.
Representative Galvin referenced a letter from Native
Peoples Action in the bill packets (copy on file). She
thought it sounded like the proposed changes specifically
addressed the questions in the letter. She asked if the
organization had reassessed and was now comfortable with
the change.
Mr. McKee replied that the sponsor's office had not
officially received a response.
Representative Hannan asked if there was a draft committee
substitute (CS) incorporating the changes reviewed by Mr.
McKee.
Mr. McKee replied that there was not a CS for HB 83 that
incorporated the changes; however, the Senate had adopted
all of the changes in its version of the bill [SB 34],
which had reported out of the Senate Finance Committee
earlier in the week.
Representative Hannan remarked that without an updated CS
an amendment deadline would be a struggle. In addition to
an updated CS, she was interested in updated letters from
the parties that had previously expressed concerns.
8:45:44 AM
AT EASE
8:46:42 AM
RECONVENED
Representative Hannan stated there had been some clearly
articulated concerns the past May. She wanted to resolve
the issue and clarified she was not doubting the sponsor's
office. She wanted to see updated letters from the
organizations [that had previously expressed concerns over
aspects of the legislation].
Ms. McKee replied that the sponsor's office would contact
the organizations to request updated letters. He would
provide any responses to the committee.
Co-Chair Foster asked Mr. McKee to put the changes in
writing and provide them to the committee. He noted the
changes were included in the Senate version of the bill
that was coming the committee's way. He remarked that there
was uncertainty about whether the committee would get to
amendments prior to receiving the Senate version of the
bill.
Representative Hannan stated that if the intention was to
wait for the Senate version, she did not need the sponsor's
office to chase its tail if the information was expected to
come.
Co-Chair Foster explained the intent to get the committee
up to speed in anticipation of potentially receiving the
Senate version of the bill.
Representative Josephson referenced an AFN letter in
members' packets that he believed to be from the previous
year (copy on file). He asked how a reader could hear
dissenting views in CACFA reports. He remarked that
including a member of a federally recognized tribe and an
ANCSA member on the commission was to give voice to
potentially dissenting views. He cited a Klutina Lake
dispute and RS 2477s as an example and stated there would
be Alaskans who viewed the issue differently. He did not
think an echo chamber kind of report had great value for
the reader. He asked if it would be considered not terribly
threatening for the reports to include information on the
dissenting views of commission members.
8:50:41 AM
Mr. McKee asked for clarification on the question. He asked
if Representative Josephson was asking whether the views of
dissenting commission members would be published.
Representative Josephson answered that the information
would be part of the online version of the report with an
occasional hard copy.
Mr. McKee answered that it would be something the
commission would have to discuss. He did not believe the
language would be included in the bill.
Co-Chair Foster asked for verification that the bill added
two seats including one tribal seat. He asked what the
second seat would be.
Mr. McKee replied that the additional seats would include
one tribal member and one ANCSA corporation shareholder.
Co-Chair Foster remarked that when he saw the inclusion of
the two groups, typically it did not involve a tribal
member, but a person representing a tribal organization and
someone representing Native corporations as opposed to an
ANCSA shareholder. He asked if there was a reason why the
legislation specified a tribal member and shareholder.
Mr. McKee answered that they had worked on a couple of
different options. He relayed that the language in the bill
was based off the language used by the Senate Finance
Committee. The sponsor's office was open to hearing
concerns and was trying to address as many of them as
possible.
Co-Chair Foster stated he may reach out to organizations in
his district about the proposal. He cited Kawerak as an
example and explained the tribal consortium may be
interested in including someone from its organization
versus an individual tribal member who was not necessarily
representing the region. He discussed why he believed the
bill had merit. He stated that former CACFA chair Charlie
Lean was from his district. He explained that the only
people who could go to the Serpentine Hot Springs within
the national park [in his district] were people with
airplanes or helicopters during the summer months. He noted
the area was accessible by snow machine during the winter.
He stated that only affluent people could visit the area
because four wheelers were not permitted. He relayed the
distance was only about six miles. He saw CACFA as an
organization to help spearhead the possibility for
individuals who want to use old trails that had been
established as far back as 100 years ago. He understood
that each of the trails had to be treated differently,
which was where the value of the commission came in.
8:55:18 AM
Co-Chair Foster asked the department to review the fiscal
note.
ASHLEE ADOKO, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF PROJECT MANAGEMENT AND
PERMITTING, DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES (via
teleconference), reviewed the fiscal note from the
Department of Natural Resources (DNR) Office of Project
Management and Permitting (OPMP), OMB Component Number
2733. The request for $145,000 in personal services and
$15,000 in services and commodities beginning in FY 25 was
for the CACFA executive director housed in OPMP to carry
out the intent of the bill. The position would report to
the commission and was needed for administrative purposes
including standing up and administering the program,
coordinating commission feedback, and response to citizen
inquiries and concerns about actions on federal lands. The
note included an additional $30,000 in services starting in
FY 27 for legal support, which would be accomplished
through a reimbursable services agreement (RSA) from DNR to
the Department of Law (DOL). Additionally, the note
included an annual request of $10,000 for travel to hold
meetings commensurate with the intent of the bill and its
administrative purposes.
Representative Hannan remarked that the fiscal note and
bill showed the CACFA executive director as reporting to
the commission. She asked who had the human resources
responsibility for hiring and firing the executive director
position. She asked if the responsibility would reside with
the commission or OPMP.
Ms. Adoko answered that she would need to follow up in
writing. She believed it would be a combination.
Representative Hannan requested the information in writing.
She wondered if the position would be a state employee with
state protections and hiring/firing practices or whether it
was equally shared and up to the commission.
8:58:35 AM
Co-Chair Johnson referenced letters in the packet
requesting an additional board seat reflective of tribes
and [Native] corporations. She asked if it was prompted by
something that had happened on the board in the past or if
it was an additional request for a board seat because it
pertained to federal lands.
Representative Rauscher responded that it was his
understanding the additional seats were to make the board
have better representation when looking at things as a
whole. He stated it was not really directed at anything
from the past.
Co-Chair Johnson wanted to make sure it was not in response
to something that had taken place in the past.
Co-Chair Foster noted that one of the amendments he had
come up with the past year was to address AFN's concern. He
thought the concern was about making sure the public would
not have free reign to trespass on their private lands. He
remarked that Alaska Native corporations had a substantial
amount of land, and they could not monitor it all. He
detailed that one of his amendments was to clearly
enunciate that CACFA would not try to open up old trails
that may cross private lands for the same reason he would
not want people driving through his back yard.
Representative Rauscher appreciated the explanation.
Representative Josephson recalled looking at the online
version of the [CACFA] report ten years earlier, which he
found very professional. He noted that one year ago the
supreme court rejected a state attempt to overrule a
federal ban on bear baiting on the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge. He elaborated that the issue had gone to the ninth
circuit and the supreme court said that the federal
government could ban some bear baiting. He explained that
the supreme court refused to take the issue up, making it
binding. He asked for verification that CACFA would be
designed to be informative and not to have a call to arms
or express bombast or outrage. He did not want to create a
state document that was designed to fire up the masses in a
tone that was inappropriate.
Representative Rauscher answered, "No, I do not believe
so." He elaborated that the commission was for information
gathering for being able to understand all points of view
in an argument including ANCSA, ANILCA, or advocacy for a
question under debate at a given time. He stated it was not
to be used in the way referenced by Representative
Josephson.
9:03:38 AM
Representative Josephson recalled that he had voted to
reauthorize the commission in 2013 or 2014.
Representative Tomaszewski asked for an example of a
success resulting from the commission in the past.
Representative Rauscher deferred the question to a former
member of the board.
ROD ARNO, POLICY DIRECTOR, ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL AND
FORMER MEMBER, CACFA, shared that he had served on CACFA
until it had lost its funding. He believed one of CACFA's
biggest successes pertained to local hire. He elaborated
that when the [U.S.] Department of Interior was hiring
individuals to work on the conservation system throughout
the state, CACFA had worked to ensure the department had
the ability to hire individuals living in those rural
areas. He stated it was contested and had gone through the
courts. The idea had been that if there were more
individuals working for the department who lived on the
land next to the federal lands, better decisions would be
made than were taking place from directors of the
department residing in Washington D.C.
Representative Stapp asked about the role CACFA played in
helping Alaskans navigate through the federal permitting
process. He considered the time and effort spent at a state
and individual level on permits that ultimately failed
because of missed details. He asked how the commission had
assisted with the process.
Mr. Arno replied that the public had the opportunity to
bring issues to CACFA if they were having problems with
permitting or access. He elaborated that CACFA had been
able to work with DNR and DOL to try to simplify the DNR
permitting process as much as possible. The idea was for
the public to come to CACFA and not for CACFA to be sitting
there coming up with things that were inconsistent with the
federal law governing the conservation system unit areas.
Representative Stapp asked if it was fair to say there were
plenty of regular Alaskans who came to talk to CACFA on
permitting issues that DNR may not have ever known about.
Mr. Arno responded affirmatively. He cited trapper cabins
on federal lands as an example. He expounded that CACFA had
been able to try to work through a policy change to
establish that trappers with traplines could have winter
cabins for safety reasons.
9:08:28 AM
Co-Chair Foster set an amendment deadline of March 4 at
5:00 p.m.
HB 83 was HEARD and HELD in committee for further
consideration.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 174 .VerB.SectionalAnalysis.5.3.23.pdf |
HFIN 2/23/2024 8:30:00 AM |
HB 174 |
| HB 174 .VerB.SponsorStatement.5.3.23.pdf |
HFIN 2/23/2024 8:30:00 AM |
HB 174 |
| HB 174 Public Testimony rec'd by 021624.pdf |
HFIN 2/23/2024 8:30:00 AM |
HB 174 |
| HB 145 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HFIN 2/23/2024 8:30:00 AM |
HB 145 |
| HB 145 Ver R Sectional Analysis 2.21.24.pdf |
HFIN 2/23/2024 8:30:00 AM |
HB 145 |
| HB 145 -Supporting Document- Payday Jubilee Report- 2.21.24.pdf |
HFIN 2/23/2024 8:30:00 AM |
HB 145 |
| HB 145 Supporting Document - AKPIRG Fact Sheet.pdf |
HFIN 2/23/2024 8:30:00 AM |
HB 145 |
| HB 145 Supporting Document - Definitions & Rate Board Picture.pdf |
HFIN 2/23/2024 8:30:00 AM |
HB 145 |
| HB 145 Letters of Support as of 2.21.24.pdf |
HFIN 2/23/2024 8:30:00 AM |
HB 145 |
| HB 145 ACT Response HFIN 022624.pdf |
HFIN 2/23/2024 8:30:00 AM |
HB 145 |