Legislature(2023 - 2024)BUTROVICH 205
05/14/2023 10:00 AM Senate JUDICIARY
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Hb61 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 61 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
May 14, 2023
2:01 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Matt Claman, Chair
Senator Jesse Kiehl, Vice Chair
Senator James Kaufman
Senator Cathy Giessel
Senator Löki Tobin (via teleconference)
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 61(STA)
"An Act relating to restrictions on firearms and other weapons."
- MOVED SCS CSHB 61(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 61
SHORT TITLE: LIMITATIONS ON FIREARMS RESTRICTIONS
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) TILTON
02/06/23 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/06/23 (H) CRA, STA
03/16/23 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
03/16/23 (H) Heard & Held
03/16/23 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
03/21/23 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124
03/21/23 (H) Moved HB 61 Out of Committee
03/21/23 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
03/22/23 (H) CRA RPT 4DP 1DNP 1AM
03/22/23 (H) DP: MCKAY, RUFFRIDGE, MCCABE, MCCORMICK
03/22/23 (H) DNP: MEARS
03/22/23 (H) AM: HIMSCHOOT
04/11/23 (H) STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120
04/11/23 (H) Heard & Held
04/11/23 (H) MINUTE(STA)
04/18/23 (H) STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120
04/18/23 (H) Moved CSHB 61(STA) Out of Committee
04/18/23 (H) MINUTE(STA)
04/19/23 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) 5DP 2AM
04/19/23 (H) DP: C.JOHNSON, CARPENTER, ALLARD,
WRIGHT, SHAW
04/19/23 (H) AM: ARMSTRONG, STORY
05/05/23 (H) TECHNICAL SESSION 5/5 - RECON HELD TO
5/8
05/08/23 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
05/08/23 (H) VERSION: CSHB 61(STA)
05/08/23 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
05/08/23 (S) <Pending Referral>
05/09/23 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
05/09/23 (S) JUD
05/10/23 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
05/10/23 (S) Heard & Held
05/10/23 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
05/14/23 (S) JUD AT 10:00 AM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
LIZZIE KUBITZ, Staff
Senator Matt Claman
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the changes between version D and
version U for HB 61.
REPRESENTATIVE CATHY TILTON, District 26
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 61.
HEATH HILYARD, Staff
Representative Cathy Tilton
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information related to HB 61 on
behalf of the sponsor.
MIKE COONS, representing self
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
JOHN LETTOW, representing self
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
TOM BOUTIN, representing self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
ANN GIFFORD, representing self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 61.
LUANN MCVEY, representing self
Douglas, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 61.
AOIBHEANN CLINE, State Director
National Rifle Association (NRA)
Fairfax Virginia
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
CHERI RUIZ, representing self
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
ODETTE EDGAR, representing self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 61.
MICHAEL GARHART, representing self
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
ANNE CAUFIELD, representing self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 61.
JAN CAUFIELD, representing self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 61.
IRENE BORTNICK, representing self
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 61.
JOEL SIGMAN, representing self
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
DONNA ANTHONY, representing self
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
TAMARA KRUSE ROSELIUS, representing self
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 61.
SALLY RUE, representing self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 61.
ROCHELLE PARKER, Volunteer
Alaska Chapter of Moms Demand Action
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 61.
CJ KOAN, representing self
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
EILEEN FOYLE SAFT, representing self
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 61.
JANEL DOCKENDORF, representing self
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
EDITH COONS, representing self
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
GREG COLLINS, representing self
Homer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
CAROLINE PORTER, representing self
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 61.
ACTION NARRATIVE
2:01:21 PM
CHAIR MATT CLAMAN called the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee
meeting to order at 2:01 p.m. Present at the call to order were
Senators Giessel, Kiehl, Kaufman, Tobin (via teleconference),
and Chair Claman.
^hb61
HB 61-LIMITATIONS ON FIREARMS RESTRICTIONS
2:01:55 PM
CHAIR CLAMAN announced the consideration of CS FOR HOUSE BILL
NO. 61(STA) "An Act relating to restrictions on firearms and
other weapons."
He noted that this was the second hearing and there was a Senate
committee substitute (SCS) for HB 61 for the committee to
consider. He asked Ms. Kubitz to present the changes in the work
draft SCS.
2:02:20 PM
LIZZIE KUBITZ, Staff, Senator Matt Claman, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, presented the changes between
version D and version U for HB 61. She stated that the SCS makes
three changes. The first change appears on page 1, lines 3
through [6] where the following legislative intent language was
added:
It is the intent of the legislature that this act does
not affect the ability of the state or a municipality
to exercise its duties under AS 29.35.145.
The second change appears in paragraph (4) on page 2, lines 5
through 6. The language was amended to exempt grocery stores,
pharmacies, medical facilities, and businesses that provide
housing, including rental accommodations, hotels, and motels
from closure. This change addresses concerns that were brought
up during the last committee meeting about closure and
limitations on forms of commerce.
The final change was to remove subsection (d) on page 2,
following line 25. This removed all reference to what a
prevailing plaintiff may recover in a civil case including: (1)
the greater amount of actual economic damages or punitive
damages in the amount of three times the plaintiff's attorney
fees, (2) court costs, and (3) attorney fees. She noted that
subsection (d) was removed because other Alaska statutes address
what a prevailing plaintiff may recover.
2:03:55 PM
CHAIR CLAMAN found no questions and asked the sponsor and her
staff to comment.
2:04:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CATHY TILTON, District 26, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, sponsor of HB 61, stated that she
had no problem with adding the intent language, but she did have
concerns with the exemptions. She argued that the Second
Amendment right is a constitutional right that should not be
exempted. She said she could live with the change to remove
subsection (d), but it wasn't her preference. She deferred
further comment to Mr. Hilyard.
2:05:39 PM
HEATH HILYARD, Staff, Representative Cathy Tilton, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, referenced the memorandum he issued
regarding damages in the amount of three times attorney fees and
clarified that subsection (d) was not included intentionally.
Regarding the exemptions in paragraph (4), he said his thought
was that those would be deemed essential businesses in an
emergency situation. The NRA concern is that those forms of
commerce were being put on equal footing with an enumerated
constitutional right.
CHAIR CLAMAN said the memorandum answered his lingering
questions.
2:07:42 PM
SENATOR KIEHL asked Mr. Hilyard to articulate the necessity for
including the provision about who has standing to bring a civil
suit.
MR. HILYARD responded that the sponsor's concern was that it
adds a layer of complexity and cost when it's not clearly
articulated in statute.
2:09:38 PM
CHAIR CLAMAN solicited a motion to adopt the SCS as the working
document.
2:09:51 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL moved to adopt the Senate committee substitute
(SCS) for HB 61, work order 33-LS0333\D, as the working
document.
CHAIR CLAMAN found no objection and version D was adopted.
2:10:40 PM
CHAIR CLAMAN opened public testimony on HB 61.
2:11:06 PM
MIKE COONS, representing self, Palmer, Alaska, testified in full
support of HB 61. He cited an article about a Virginia district
judge who overturned federal law prohibiting the sale of
handguns to people under age 21. He called that a "direct hard
push" beyond what the government has been doing since the 1968
gun control act. He also cited a 2022 decision from the US
Supreme Court on the same topic and said these cases directly
pertain to HB 61 which will ensure that citizens are able to
purchase firearms and ammunition during national emergencies
regardless of the reason.
2:13:12 PM
JOHN LETTOW, representing self, Wasilla, Alaska, testified in
support of HB 61. He stated support for the sponsor's comments
and described Mike Coon's comments were timely, accurate, and
necessary to understand that the people do not lose control of
the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. This right
should not be infringed.
2:14:14 PM
TOM BOUTIN, representing self, Juneau, Alaska, testified in
support of HB 61. He shares the sponsor's concerns with the
Senate CS and hopes that it doesn't prevent the bill from being
enacted by the end of this legislative session. He described the
original draft of HB 61 as a great bill.
2:15:13 PM
ANN GIFFORD, representing self, Juneau, Alaska, testified in
opposition to HB 61. As a mother and grandmother she cares
strongly about the safety of children. She opined that HB 61
would remove the little control the governor and other public
officials have to limit carrying or the use of guns in an
emergency, even when those limits would help keep kids and other
people safe. She said guns are useful tools but they have become
the number one cause of death for children and teenagers in
Alaska. Reasonable limits are needed on when and where they can
be used. She urged the committee to spend time on bills that
would reduce gun violence as opposed to bills like HB 61.
2:16:33 PM
LUANN MCVEY, representing self, Douglas, Alaska, testified in
opposition to HB 61. She stated that she grew up in a home that
had guns for hunting and she was urging the committee to prevent
the passage of HB 61. She opined that it was not appropriate to
prevent the governor, a state agency, or a municipality from
taking action during a declared emergency to restrict the
possession, use, or sale of a firearm or other weapons, or to
temporarily close gun stores and gun ranges. She urged the
committee to prevent passage of unnecessary laws such as HB 61.
2:18:50 PM
AOIBHEANN CLINE, State Director, National Rifle Association
(NRA), Fairfax Virginia, testified in support of HB 61 which
protects Alaskans' constitutional right to keep and bear arms
from being arbitrarily infringed by the state or municipal
governments during a declared disaster. HB 61 also avoids
improperly placing the burden of proof on a firearms business to
establish that it is critical or essential in an emergency. She
said the right to self-defense is the core of the Second
Amendment and its importance is elevated during emergencies. She
opined that HB 61 provides a thoughtful and effective approach
to balance Second Amendment rights and local control. She said
the NRA has remaining concerns in Section 2 with subsection
(a)(4) of the Senate CS.
2:21:06 PM
CHERI RUIZ, representing self, Palmer, Alaska, stated that she
supports HB 61 and the ability of citizens to purchase firearms
and have access to firearms education and training to ensure
they are handled safely in communities during emergencies. She
also supports the sponsor's point regarding other entities being
given equal footing as a constitutional right. She urged the
committee to have trust and faith in their fellow Alaskans
during emergency declarations.
2:22:08 PM
ODETTE EDGAR, representing self, Juneau, Alaska, stated
opposition to HB 61 saying that during an emergency, state and
municipal employees need to take special steps to ensure public
safety. If HB 61 were to pass, they would have to take
additional steps to protect themselves from being sued if they
tried to prevent guns in emergency shelters and other
potentially volatile locations. She voiced objection to
subsection (c) because gun rights organizations should not be
given special status in Alaska law, and said she was pleased
that subsection (d) was removed.
2:24:08 PM
MICHAEL GARHART, representing self, Wasilla, Alaska, stated
support for HB 61 and any bill that supports the Second
Amendment. He opined that Americans need to be able to protect
themselves against domestic and foreign invasions. He believes
that when the US gets invaded, Americans need to defend
themselves because 911 won't be available.
2:25:10 PM
ANNE CAUFIELD, representing self, Juneau, Alaska, stated strong
opposition to HB 61. She is particularly concerned about the
provision that would not allow the governor, state agencies, or
municipalities to place temporary restrictions on the possession
and use of guns during a declared emergency. This is reckless
and dangerous and could lead to tragic outcomes. As a Red Cross
volunteer, she knows that working in disaster shelters is
demanding and sometimes chaotic. The thought of unrestricted
firearms in these shelters is terrifying. If HB 61 were to pass
as currently drafted, she would be unwilling to volunteer in a
shelter.
2:27:13 PM
JAN CAUFIELD, representing self, Juneau, Alaska, stated strong
opposition to HB 61. She said the bill goes far beyond the
equity in commerce that the proponents have requested. It raises
confusion about the ability for state and local governments to
keep the public safe during a disaster. She articulated concern
that the new intent language does not completely ensure that
state agencies and municipalities could place restrictions on
the use and possession of guns during a declared emergency in
places where guns would have been allowed prior to the emergency
declaration. She supports sensible restrictions in emergency
shelters as others have suggested because anything that ties the
hands of disaster agencies to respond in emergencies or creates
confusion can make people less safe. She also stated opposition
to special interest groups having standing in civil suits and
highlighted the potential for costly litigation to be a
dangerous distraction to state and local officials trying to
manage a disaster response.
2:29:30 PM
IRENE BORTNICK, representing self, Anchorage, Alaska, stated
that she supports the right to bear arms but urges the committee
to vote against HB 61. The bill helps people who should not have
guns to more easily acquire them. She supports any bill that
adds to the safety of the citizenry, especially during an
emergency. She opined that even the Senate CS doesn't seem to
improve safety.
2:30:24 PM
JOEL SIGMAN, representing self, Wasilla, Alaska, stated that
anybody who votes against HB 61 should step down because the
bill is about supporting constitutional rights. These rights
shall not be infringed. He supports good guys carrying guns to
provide protection from criminals. People without guns are
doomed.
2:32:27 PM
DONNA ANTHONY, representing self, Palmer, Alaska, stated support
for HB 61. She spoke about the false sense of security that some
Alaskans seem to have. The state of Alaska has fewer than 900
officers and they were struggling during the pandemic. She
supports the right for people to bear arms to protect themselves
and their families, especially during a disaster. Businesses
should not be closed during such times. She mentioned previous
testimony and clarified that statute already prohibits guns in
schools and domestic violence shelters. HB 61 recognizes that
everybody is a first responder.
2:33:53 PM
TAMARA KRUSE ROSELIUS, representing self, Fairbanks, Alaska,
stated opposition to HB 61. She said that if the problem that
needs to be addressed is the state's ability to shut down
firearm stores during the pandemic, limit the bill solely to
equity in commerce. The remainder is legislative overreach into
state and local governance. The language in the bill about
preventing restrictions on the use of firearms during
emergencies goes too far. During an emergency the focus should
be on official action to protect public safety. Specifically
giving organizations the right to sue officials who are working
to preserve public safety also goes too far. Decisions about
where to limit guns should be left to trained professionals.
Constitutional limits on state authority and guaranteed rights
under art. I, sec. 19 of the Constitution of the State of Alaska
remain in full effect during an emergency. She also pointed out
that the constitution protects against possible arbitrary
restrictions on individual Alaskans. The provision about actions
against public safety officers is also unnecessary.
2:36:01 PM
SALLY RUE, representing self, Juneau, Alaska, stated that she is
not anti-gun or anti-Second Amendment but she has serious
concerns about the potential for HB 61 to limit the governor,
state agencies, and local governments to protect the health,
safety, and welfare in the event of a declared disaster
emergency. The sponsors say this will not affect existing
restrictions on carrying firearms in prohibited locations, but
she would suggest adding a specific provision to that effect
before moving the bill forward. She also questioned whether the
legislative intent was adequate.
2:38:11 PM
ROCHELLE PARKER, Alaska Chapter of Moms Demand Action,
Anchorage, Alaska, testified in opposition to HB 61. She finds
it shameful that the committee was hearing HB 61 on Mother's Day
and potentially advancing NRA backed legislation that could put
more lives at risk. She wondered whether Alaskans loved their
guns more than their mothers and children because many mothers
are grieving about the loss of a child to gun violence. In
Alaska, guns are the leading cause of death for children and
teens. Gun violence is prolific and growing nationwide. She
wondered why there wasn't legislation to protect kids from gun
violence. She understands and respects the need to protect
Second Amendment rights but she believes HB 61 is unnecessary
and could prevent leaders from making decisions that would keep
children and families safe in unknown disaster situations. She
reiterated opposition to HB 61 and urged the committee to
instead advance secure firearms storage laws and extreme risk
protective order laws that have proven to be helpful.
2:40:01 PM
CJ KOAN, representing self, Wasilla, Alaska, testified in
support of HB 61. She stated that in cities with rigid gun laws,
the only people who are protected are the people with illegal
guns. She called HB 61 a good bill and stated agreement with the
comments from the sponsor and the NRA. She said she doesn't
agree with the Senate CS but she would like to see the bill pass
this year.
2:41:30 PM
EILEEN FOYLE SAFT, representing self, Anchorage, Alaska, stated
that she strongly opposes HB 61. It is alarming and does nothing
to ensure safety. She opined that municipal assemblies must be
able to declare gun-free zones. Reasonable limits must be
considered during emergencies. Providence Hospital does not
allow firearms and she's asked if she is carrying a gun each
time she volunteers there. She worries that if the bill were to
pass, mass confusion and chaos would pose a threat in the event
of an emergency.
2:42:51 PM
JANEL DOCKENDORF, representing self, Wasilla, Alaska, stated
support for HB 61. She believes that people should have the
right to have guns in their houses for protection.
2:43:30 PM
EDITH COONS, representing self, Kodiak, Alaska, stated support
for HB 61. She believes that limiting good, responsible, honest
citizens from arming themselves during an emergency would be a
mistake.
2:44:29 PM
GREG COLLINS, representing self, Homer, Alaska, stated strong
support for HB 61. Seeing what happened after some of the
disasters in the Lower 48 convinced him that it is important for
people to be able to protect themselves during a disaster
because there aren't enough law enforcement officers to do so.
Citizens need to stand up and keep the wolves at bay.
2:45:32 PM
CAROLINE PORTER, representing self, Palmer, Alaska, stated
support for HB 61. She is concerned about regular Alaskans
arbitrarily not being able to defend themselves. During a
disaster it's important for people to have access to whatever is
needed to take care of themselves, their families, and their
homes. Anybody who believe that people who are interested in
nefarious acts won't be armed is naïve. Responsible Alaskans
don't want to go around blasting but they do have the
constitutional right to protect themselves.
2:46:56 PM
CHAIR CLAMAN closed public testimony on HB 61.
2:46:59 PM
At ease
2:47:25 PM
CHAIR CLAMAN reconvened the meeting and asked the members if
they had any final comments.
2:47:36 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL stated that she appreciates the intent of the
bill and the provision in the Senate CS on page 2, lines 4-7
which exempts certain businesses from closure. The reason for
her support is that businesses that provide food, medical care,
and housing meet the fundamental, natural rights of citizens to
life, liberty, and property. Ensuring that these businesses are
exempted is very important.
2:49:04 PM
SENATOR KIEHL opined that Senator Giessel's comments were very
insightful. The only businesses that are exempted are food,
medicine, and housing. This is the strictest of standards and a
responsible approach.
CHAIR CLAMAN found no further questions or comments and
solicited a motion.
2:50:26 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL moved to report the Senate CS for HB 61, work
order 33-LS0333\D, from committee with individual
recommendations and attached fiscal note(s).
2:50:38 PM
CHAIR CLAMAN found no objection and SCS CSHB 61(JUD) was
reported from the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee.
2:50:57 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Claman adjourned the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee
meeting at 2:50 p.m.